Details of the Supplementary Estimates-Brief Summary
of Mr. Haultain's Budget Statement, and an Indication
of the Trend of the Debate—There is Need for all of the
Increased Revenue, and the Future, When Only the
Ordinary Revenue Can be Expected, is a Subject for
Serious Consideration.
TUESDAY, Sept. 13, 1898.
THE TERRITORIAL POSITION
AS PRESENTED BY PREMIER HAULTAIN BEFORE THE LEGISLATURE, 13TH SEPTEMBER, 1898.
The Present is a Year of Financial Jubilee by Reason of Large
Revenues Coming From an Unexpected Source—In Future
Years the Revenues Will Fall to the Old Figures, Small
Enough Before, and Totally Inadequate Now—The School
System and Other Institutions Whose Growth Means Outlay,
Advancing by Leaps and Bounds—The Only Remedy is Provincial Establishment if Parliament
Fails to Very Largely Increase the Territorial Grant.
Mr. HAULTAIN in moving the
House into Committee of Supply on
Tuesday, 13th Sept., 1898, stated at the
outset that every item of the Supplementary Estimates which the House was asked to
vote would be found to be of a purely practical nature. Besides the supplementaries
for the year 1898, there was an
Estimate of $60 000 for 1899 to provide
for carrying on the public business until
the time that the House would be called
to meet in that year, that was to say after
the end of the present financial year.
The reason for the policy of asking this
$60,000 vote he would explain later.
LAST YEAR'S EXPECTATIONS.
The House would recollect that last
year Supply was voted for 16 months instead of for an ordinary year. This
course was adopted for several reasons.
Up to the present the Territorial financial year has ended on 31st August, and
under the old system followed by Parliament in the voting of the North-West
grants which compelled the Assembly to
hold its sessions in the summer or fall,
that date was the most expedient. Now,
however, the Assembly grant fro Parliament is paid half-yearly as a subsidy,
which enabled the Assembly to alter their
financial year and make it coterminous
with the calender year, which would be
more convenient from many points of
view. The reasons for the change were
fully discussed last year and he
would not repeat them. It had been foreshadowed last year that the House at this
session would be asked to vote certain
supplementary items—for expenses of
this session, to provide for the expenses of
the general election, and to provide the
grants to agricultural societies. They had
estimated for supplementaries for these
purposes to amount in round numbers to
$40,000. The amount now asked far
exceeded that amount, and he would try
to justify the excess. The total revenue
arising from all sources from 1st Sept.,
1897, to 31st August, 1898, amounted to
$542,772.11. At the 1897 session the
House appropriated $372,510.82, having
then in view an additional $40,000 to be
voted as supplementaries this year as he
had explained. However the actual balance between the amount voted last year
and the total amount of the revenue was
$170,261.29. The House was now asked
to vote $163,925.24 instead of $40,000,
and even then there would be left in the
bank a sum exceeding $6,000 to go to
swell the revenues of 1899, and this calculation did not include a sum of $28,000
collected for retaining permits in Yukon
which also would go to the amount to be
voted by the new Legislature for the services of 1899. So he could say at once
that while they asked an extraordinary
amount for supplementaries they were not
overstepping the limits, and were not entrenching a single dollar on the amount
properly belonging to the new Legislature. Besides the $6,000 balance, and
the amount to come from Yukon, there
would be several small unexpended balances to go to the fund for next year. It
was thought that as the present Legislature ends within the present year and
this was the last session, the Supply for
1899 would more properly come within
the jurisdiction and work of a new
House. There had been a very large
temptation to do as was always done elsewhere, and as would be done here if this
had not been the last session of an expiring legislature, namely, vote the Supply
for the succeeding year. The Government could have brought down really
magnificent estimates, adding next year's
supply and this year's supplementaries
together,—an amount between $500,000
and $600,000. That would have made a
splendid showing in one sense, gratifying
to the House and to hon. gentlemen's
constituents. But they deemed it proper
to resist, and they had resisted, the
temptation. It would be possible for the
new Legislature to meet soon after the
elections; the new House would be called
as soon as possible. It was the proper
course for this House to leave to its successor the business of voting the supply
for next year, and confine itself to dealing with what legitimately belonged to it.
They would not, for the sake of making a
good showing and bringing down splendid
estimates, depart from a good sound constitutional principle; and they would not
anticipate the business of the next year
which came within the province of a
House yet to be elected.
THE REALIZATION OF THE YEAR.
The increase in the revenues for
this year had been extraordinary and
unexpected. The largest increase was
from fees for wholesale liquor permits for
the Yukon. From this source the revenue was $122,000 to begin with. From
fees for enrollment of advocates
there had been considerable revenue,
which also was caused by the
rush to the Yukon. It was
not surprising that there had been a rush
of lawyers to that country. The great
movement of people into the gold fields,
the likelihood of many legal conflicts
arising out of disputed claims, etc , and
the large fees to be hoped for, were
doubtless a great attraction for professional gentlemen, apart altogether from
the possibilities existing for any man to
become possessed of a valuable mining
claim himself. The business likely to
arise out of the gold claims was sufficient
to induce a rush of professional men, and
the Territorial revenues reaped some
$2,000 from fees for enrolment of advocates. Fees from appointment of notaries
exceeded the estimate by $290. In all
the Yukon yielded a revenue of more
than $124,000,— an amount not calculated
upon at all in the estimate of revenue
available for this year made at last session.
The ordinary local revenue had also
taken an unexpected jump. They estimated it at $30,000. For a number of
years the local revenue had been nearly a
fixed amount, but this year it had exceed
ed the estimate and exceeded the amount
derived from local sources in former years
by between $10,000 and $12,000. So in
addition to the sum of $40,000 of their
estimated revenue left unvoted last year,
they had now a further sum of about
$140,000 in round numbers belonging
of the amount now asked to be voted.
be asked legitimately to vote.
NO LACK OF NEED FOR THE INCREASE.
If they had much larger revenues this
year, they found also that there were
larger expenses to meet. The legislation
of last session had led to an incalculable
increase in the work of the
public offices. The increase could
not be put down to any particular
new policy adopted, excepting the case of
brands registration; but the ordinary
everyday work of the offices had increased
fully 40 or 50 per cent. No one not
right on the spot could notice the increase or see the reasons for it, but it was
a fact experienced in every department
that the work had increased simply by
leaps and bounds. Possibly it was partly
due to the organization of government
and the institution of regular departments
—to the change from the vague system
under which no one was definitely responsible and there were no organised
departments, to the system of organised
departments and appropriate individuals
being appointed for the public to write
to. For instance he had himself the
honor to hold the title of Attorney
General. The mere appointment of such
an official had seemed to lead to a tremendous increase in the correspondence
of the office. Every Justice of the Peace
considered that he had a right to obtain
information and advice upon all the
business coming before him from
the Attorney General, and others
availed themselves of the opportunity afforded by the appointment of a law officer
of the Crown
in the Territories, to seek free legal
advice and information. While it was
not a part of the Attorney General's
duties to deal out legal advice to every
one who asked for it and upon every case
or subject upon which his advice might
be, and was, asked, yet he had attempted
in all cases to give the benefit of his
opinion when it was asked, and when
there was nothing in the nature of the
conditions or cases submitted to him to
prevent him giving an opinion. In only
a few cases he had been obliged to refuse
the requests of gentlemen who sought his
advice. The Attorney General's department was not nearly so directly in touch
with the people generally as some other
of the departments, but the work of the
Attorney General's office had increased
beyond all anticipation,—beyond any
estimate that could possibly have been
made. The general idea seemed to be
that the Attorney General was appointed
to give free advice, and often it was a
very difficult and delicate task to lead
people to comprehend that their cases
were not of a public nature and involved
no point of public interest, and should
therefore be entrusted to a solicitor. But
as he had said, whenever he was able he
had given opinions to Justices and to
individuals as well; he had sometimes
perhaps strained a point to lead himself
at least to believe that the cases submitted were connected in some way with
the public interest, and only in one or
two instances had he refused to give the
best opinion he could give on points submitted.
INCREASED WORK AND NEW OFFICIALS.
Two notable items in the Estimates
were asked to provide salaries for two new
officials who had been appointed since the
House last met. The House was asked
to vote the salary for, and ratify the appointment of, Mr. Robson as law clerk,
and for Mr. Peterson as deputy in the
Department of Agriculture. In neither
of these instances did he think there any
call for apology. He could personally say
for Mr. Robson that he was a first rate
man for the work. There had for a long
time been a constant demand for a law
clerk in the House. The want had been
long recognized of an official skilled and
trained in the work of drafting legislation. There was a long standing feeling
that the sooner they could see their way
clear for the engagement of a law clerk,
the better it would be for their legislation
and general business. Mr. Robson would,
too, fill the post of deputy to the Attorney General. In that regard he could
only say that in view of the increase in
the business of the office it had become a
physical impossibility for the political
head of the department to give the attention demanded to all the routine of
the office. The House could have no
idea of the number of points involving
professional opinions, which came to the
Attorney General's office, not alone from
the outside public, but arising from the
work of the other departments. From
the work of the Public Works department
there arose an innumerable and constantly increasing number of references—from
the Statute Labour system, in regard to
elections held under it, powers of Overseers and questions of assessment. So
with the Education department. Under
their system of schools there were constantly arising difficult and complicated
questions which properly belonged for
settlement to the law department of the
government. From all their departments,
in fact, there were points continually
coming up which had to be considered in
in the Attorney General's office. Under
the Public Works department, again,
there were questions of trails and road
allowances, often intricate questions relating to titles involving business with
the registry offices, and which could only
be handled by the Attorney General.
The same was true of the Irrigation
administration. He needed only to mention some of these points, and to leave the
House to understand and appreciate the
nature and amount of this kind of work.
All the subsidiary work respecting municipalities and like institutions brought
the departments into very direct contact
with the people on many questions involving legal points and questions of
very important and often serious public
interest,—points and questions upon
which the departments must be in position to give well considered opinions.
Again, prosecutions under the Ordinances
were on the increase,—under the Liquor
law particularly. The Government had
been pushing the inspectors and during
the year there had been a largely increased number of prosecutions, and no
less than 21 convictions, a number equal
to one-fifth of the licenses granted, and
from which $1,900 had been received in
the way of fines. Under the Prairie Fire
Ordinance and other Ordinances there
were constantly arising points, cases and
work, which with his other duties—the
Attorney General presided also over the
Treasury and School departments—the
member of the Government occupying
the position of Attorney General could
not begin to even casually consider. The
time had come to install permanent men
over the departments, and to cease confining the political heads to the clerical
and routine work of the offices. The
members of the Government were expected to give consideration to new
legislation and to develop new policies;
they should be enabled to travel through
the country to keep in touch with the
people and to keep acquainted with the
conditions of all portions of the country.
The men entrusted with the policy of
Government had larger and more important work to engage them that the clerical
and routine duties of the offices, and
should not be held down in the office
chairs attending to routine work which a
reasonable addition to the staff could cope
with and do well. In the past the routine
work which the political heads were
obliged to attend to had been too large.
It had become a matter of difficulty to
attend even to the daily mail, and in the
multiplicity of affairs of detail which
could not be avoided sometimes matters
of larger interest had to be put to one
side. The necessity of having permanent
men in charge of the departments had
been dwelt upon soundly in former years,
—men whom political changes would not
disturb and who would understand the
law and the policy of the departments.
The policy he referred to was quite distinct from the political policy. Certain
rules and lines would be followed in the
departments, which would be the same
no matter what administration was in
control. Such permanent heads were
absolutely necessary for the continuity of
public business,—men trained and skilled
and experienced in the office and departmental administration. The political
heads might come and go,—they were
always liable to change. At one stage of
the not remote history of the Territories,
so much of the knowledge of the detail
and business relating to the government
had been confined to the mind of an
Executive Committee, that if a political
revolution had removed the occupants of
the offices or had illness taken away the
members, a very great deal of the essential knowledge of the business would have
gone out with them, because the staff was
insufficient and because there were no
permanent head having hold of the
threads and details of the business. He
had personally often felt that his successor
would have a nice amount of work just in
gathering the threads and details. The
appointment of an agricultural deputy
would be bound to commend itself to the
House. He would not need to dilate on
the importance of that department. Agriculture was the main industry of the
Territories, and the policy of the Government should be directed to the promotion
of the interests of and the development
of that industry. They were initiating a
policy. The House was not asked to
devote a large amount of money towards
it, but they were making a departure, a
commencement. The Agricultural department, although its scope and interest
were large and most important, was not
itself large as yet. There were just the
deputy and one clerk at present, and no
doubt, with possibly an assistant or two,
this staff would be able to carry on the
work for some time to come. Though the
expense was small the department was not
the less important and they could all
sincerely hope that it would fast grow
in usefulness.
THE BRANDS CHANGE.
In the present year the aggregate expenses of the offices had been extraordinarily
large. The extra work had been
occasioned not only in the manner he had
been describing, a more or less legitimate
increase; but a more extraordinary, and it
was to be hoped temporary, increase was
caused by the change in the Brands
registration system adopted by the House
last year. It was always easy after the
event to see what might have been done
better. He was willing to admit that if
they had allowed a longer time within
which to effect the change a great deal of
the rush of work would have been avoided
as well as a great deal of the trouble and
unnecessary friction. He said this simply
by way of retrospection. The was not use
in dwelling on what might have been.
the gift of prophetic insight had not been
given enough play in the circumstance.
The change was made the harder by the
very incomplete state of the old records,
and by the fact that many people did not
get hold of the effect of the new
law. He did not intend to
take up any time with the subject,
which would be fully dealt with by his
colleague from Moose Jaw. The working of the new system had brought a
revenue of $2,300 which more than paid
for extra work and clerical services which
the change had necessitated in the offices. The work had been very great.
No less than 4,600 letters were received,
and 8,000 communications had been sent
out from the office, 2,500 of them being
circulars. The applications numbered
5,000, and 3,700 brands had been re- allotted, or originally allotted. Each
application and each brand dealt
with involved more or less work.
There had been two single cases
of defective brands which took the time
of one man two whole days to straighten
out—a man who was skilled in the subject and who was brought down from
the stock country temporarily to deal
in a scientific way with the wor of
changing the system. He was a man
familiar with all the western brands and
yet it took him two whole days to reach
a determination in those two cases.
This fact would enable the House to
have some idea of the difficulty and
amount of work which had been done.
A great deal of the work done in the
offices in the past year was new work,
and there had been a redistribution of
the officials. While the total expense
had increased, the increase was entirely
due to new work. The general tendency was to simplify the work. In the
Education and Treasury offices and in
some of the subsidiary branches there
had been certain simplification and
lessening of expense. There were fewer
officials in these offices than formerly,
while the work had certainly not become less. New work was being dealt
with by the new departments, and new
officials were established only when they
became necessary from the point of view
of usefulness and convenience to the
people of the country The Government
could claim that they were keeping to
their policy and their traditions and were
doing the work with the smallest staff
compatible with the public interest. No
one knowing the work which had to be
done could cavil, and he stated a fact
when he said that there was not a single
unnecessary official in their employ.
During the year the staff had worked
night and day endeavoring to keep up
with the business arising,—the officials
had worked over hours not only for
weeks but for months at a stretch, and
even then there had been absolute necessity for the employment of extra
temporary clerks. He had taken the
ground in conversations with his colleagues, that whenever it was shown that
the staff was unable to cope with the
work, he would rather take the responsibility of employing additional assistance
and depend upon the House to sustain
the action, than to come down to the
House and meet the complaints which
were sure to be heard if the work were
not done. He could honestly say and
claim that in every case where they had
engaged an extra clerk or had made a
new appointment, there had been an
actual requirement.
ITEMS OF THE ESTIMATES.
The Public Works items he would
leave to Mr. Ross to explain, who was
better qualified to enter into the details.
In a general way he might say that in
the supplementaries there were votes
asked for a few new items, but the bult
of the items were for works which had
been pressed for last year but
could not be provided with the
means then at the disposal of the
House. The works for which votes
were now asked were works which
could be done and would be done
this year; of course they would of necessity be done this year or the money would
lapse. Of the new items, there was one
for a Territorial map. There was not at
present any up-to-date map of the Territories. The map would include the
electoral districts to be made at this
session. The House was asked to provide for 10,000 copies, and they would
be ready very shortly after the House
rose. Including the Statute Labor,
School and Legislative Assembly districts,
the map would contain a large amount of
very valuable information taking the
place of letter press description. The
showing of the useful institutions of the
country would constitute a valuable object lesson. It would be an unwritten
pamphlet on the North-West Territories.
There was a vote for the expenses of the
inspection of steam boilers, which service
is expected to return sufficient in fees to
pay for itself and perhaps show a slight
margin to the good. There was a vote
to pay a portion of a bonus to a man at
Wetaskiwin, the circumstances of which
were the following: From the district
grant a bonuse of $500 had been promisted
to the man in consideration of his building a flour mill and operating for three
years. After one year's operation the
mill was burned. It was insured in
favor of the Government, who received
the $500 from the policy. The man had
operated the mill for one third of the
term of his agreement, and it was thought
right that he should receive one-third of
the amount of the bonus. In regard to
Public Works, Mr. Haultain hoped that
in future years the Estimates would assume a different form, and that there
would be fewer items for small works
than had been necessary last year and
were found necessary this year. Now
that between 400 and 500 Statute Lavor
Districts were organised and would be
better able to cope with the smaller
works and improvements as the organisation became more effective through experience
of its working, it could reasonably be hoped that year by year the
Estimates would contain items for fewer
small works, leaving the fund to be
devoted to larger and enduring works
which would live and go down to the
credit of the members whose privilege it
might be to recommend them and of the
Government which might construct them.
Nevertheless this year the position in
regard to public works was most gratifying. Without drawing a cent of money
legitimately belonging to another year,
the House was able to vote, including
the amounts asked in these supplementaries,
a total sum of $197,385.00 to be expended on public works and improvements in
the 16 months ending 31st Dec., 1898.
This splendid showing of course carried
with it its own danger. Unless the funds
of later years were increased as this
year's funds had been, from some unexpected source, they must drop again to
the commonplace amounts of former
years. In a way they were courting
future disappointment. However the
money they had this year rightly belonged to them, and it ought to be spent
by them, without concern as to what
might happen in the future. The items
included provision for the construction of
bridges and culverts, and repairs to
public works. The expenses for repairs
would increase from year to year, as
larger works were erected. A point had
been arrived at when many of the works
constructed years ago were showing the
necessity for repairs. Whenever a road
or a bridge became necessary and was
constructed, there followed the necessity
of keeping it in repair. Some of the
items in these supplementaries would
stand to the credit of future years in a
sense. The tools, supplies and implements provided for would not outlive
their usefulness this year. Not an item
could be found in the public works list
which was not of a distinctly practical
nature.
GROWTH OF EDUCATION.
Education was one of the most important subjects dealt with by the Assembly.
The House was asked to pass a very large
supplementary vote for grands to schools.
An amount was voted last year which was
estimated to be sufficient for the 16
months. At last session he had given
indication of certain circumstances which
might lead to the necessity of making an
additional vote this year, but the sum
they were now obliged to ask ($25,000)
was both extraordinary and unexpected.
It made a serious drain on the general
resources, and withdrew a very large sum
from the amounts available for other purposes. On the other hand the circumstances
and conditions which made
necessary the drain and the withdrawal
were matters of congratulation, however
much they might grudge the inroad. In
the Estimates at the 1897 session, the
Government had estimated for an increase
in the number of schools and school
children at a rate proportionate with the
rate prevailing in previous years. However, it was found that the ration of increase
in 1897-98 in the number of
teachers employed was twice as great as
the ratio of increase in 1896-97. The
House would at once recognize that this
fact necessitated an increased expenditure,
and at the same time that it was a subject for congratulation. The increase in
the number of children attending the
schools amounted to more than twice the
ratio of increase in the previous year.
This was altogether astounding although
very desirable. By the system of grants
an amount was paid for every day that
every child attended school, so that a
large addition to the school attendance
meant a large addition to the school
grants. Another unexpected increase
arose from the re-opening of no less than
13 schools which had been closed, and of
which there had been no reason last year
to expect the re-opening. On the contrary it had been expected they would be
disorganised as they had seemed to stand
in the way of re-erections of different
districts. But they had suddenly revived, and they alone represented $3,000
Last session he had drawn attention to
the decrease in the number of holders of
3rd class certificates employed. The tendency was to employ the teachers of
higher qualifications. The move was
welcomed as being in the right direction
in the interests of the schools, but they
had had no idea how fast the movement
was to go on. This year 3rd class teachers represent only 18 per cent of the
number of teachers employed in the Territories. This was a splendid showing.
It was a significant fact that the
number of lowest grade teachers engaged
in the new Territories was smaller than
the number engaged in the old and rich
province of Ontario. In that province
more than 50 per cent of the teachers are
holders of lowest grade certificates as
against only 18 per cent in the Territories. Speaking comparatively as well as
absolutely the fact spoke volumes for the
nature of the education given in the
common schools of the North-West Territories, and showed that the trustees and
ratepayers in this country appreciate the
better qualified teachers. But their
appreciation causes increased expenditure.
Higher grades meant higher grants, and
imposed an additional burden on the
resources of the Assembly, a burden,
however, they cheerfully recognised and
met. The larger salaries paid to higher
grade teachers affected the grants, as in
a measure of the grants were governed by
the salary paid to the teacher. Another
feature of the increase was the changing
of many of the shorter-term or "summer"
schools into yearly schools, or which if
not keeping open for the full year were
prolonging the summer sessions. The
Ordinance held out inducements for regular attendance and likewise the
grants. The general effect of the system
of grants adopted two years ago had been
to increase the attendance in summer
schools. First there would be an increase
in attendance, then the schools would be
kept open a longer term, and finally the
summer schools changed to yearly school.
All these features showing the rapid
development of the school system must be
gratifying to every one interested in the
education of the young people
of the Territories. From a strictly financial point of view the
increase was a misfortune, but on the
other hand it was a source of gratification.
AGRICULTURAL INTERESTS NOT NEGLECTED.
The next feature of the Estimates had
to do with Agriculture and Statistics.
The Government had not been able yet
to complete the scheme foreshadowed
last year respecting agricultural societies
and exhibitions. That the present plan
of holding many small shows was simply
a dissipation of money and a scattering
of energies, all would agree. But the
matter was a delicate one. Local habitations were likely to resent interference
with their self governing powers; and it
had to be admitted that in the early
days the small societies did a very excellent work. They had filled an unoccupied
place and had been a dinstinct
advantage to the new institutions growing up under pioneer conditions. So far
as their resources and organisation admitted they had done well. But the
time has passed by when they met the
requirements and conditions of the country. The Government were, however,
not prepared to deal with the question
now. If the elections resulted as they
hoped, a scheme would be ready for
submission to the House at its next
session. Under the heading appeared
two items which were new departures
and the direct result of the establishment of an Agricultural department.
The House was not asked to risk any
great amount of money in this branching
out. Any branching out they could do
was of necessity very modest. Not matter who was in control, there were certain services
which had to be met; and
when those services were met there was
not much money left for new schemes or
any brilliant policy. Their Estimates had
always shown a desire, and their policy had
always been, to have their institutions
grow up with the country. They had always
endeavored to grapple with the conditions as
they arose, and to have their institutions
keep pace with the development of the
country. It was in this spirit that they
now endeavored to deal with the interests
of agriculture and stock raising. The
policy in regard to the latter interest
would be to encourage "breeding up."
In the western part of the country particularly there was no question but that
there had been in the last few years a
most undesirable deterioration in quality of
the cattle on the ranges. This was partly owing to the fact that the large owners
had gone out of breeding. the quality and value of the herds were not
what they were eight, ten or twelve
years ago. This statement applied
to the west; possibly in the eastern
part the tendency had been the
other way. while the early herds in
the west had been of splendid quality and
value, the rule with settler in the
eastern part had been that the first cattle
he obtained were not of very good grade.
At any rate all would agree that "grading up" in both east and west would be
a very great benefit; and anything which
would tend to encourage this desirable
improvement without making too large
inroads upon their resources, would be
good policy to adopt. The method proposed was to make arrangements for the
transportation of the thoroughbred animals at
nominal cost to the purchaser; to this
extent, that a thoroughbred animal might
be landed at the home of the purchaser in
the Territories at just the cost of the animal in the eastern province or wherever
else purchased. Distance would simply
be abolished so far as concerned the man
in the Territories who wanted to procure
a thoroughbred sire. The amount asked
for this purpose ($2,000) was very small;
in fact it looked to be an absurdly smal
expenditure in view of the very great importance of the project, but the Govern
ment were satisfied that the amount
would meet the needs of the service. Another amount of $2,500 was
asked to initiate experimental work.
Anyone who had visited the district surrounding Indian Head must have been
struck with the splendid crops and the
generally flourishing condition of the
district. The special success attending
farming in that neighborhood could not be
due to any superiority of soil or conditions
as compared with other districts; the
success was due in great measure to
practical facts relating to agriculture
which farmers there obtain,— to the
advantage they have of seeing scientific
farming carried on under the identical
conditions prevailing on their own farms
The example offered by the Indian Head
experimental farm, altough unfortunately confined to the few who live immediately
around it, was still productive of
practical good of which the Indian Head
district was the standing proof. Excellent
as was the work of the Indian Head
farm, its usefulness was very largely
confined to the neighborhood possessing
the same soil and conditions as prevailed
on the farm itself. The experiments
which proved that a certain kind of
wheat could be successfully grown at
Indian Head, would not prove that the
wheat could be grown on different soil
and under differnt conditions. A trip
of 40 or 50 miles in this country would
often show totally changed soil and climate, and the method good for one district
might not be good for the other.
So from the broad point of view, the
work of one experimental farm in a country having so many varieities of soil and
conditions as the Territories, could
not have any large practical use or importance. Everyone would admit the
value of experimental work, and the
question was, could this Government
undertake the work with advantage?
They believed they could do so. As the
amount asked for would indicate, there
was no proposal to buy farms or attempt
any scheme which would involve great
expense. They would be confined to
work in the way of results and lessons,
—the dealing with questions concerning
the evry-day work of the every-day
farmer. Their plan would be severely
practical. He had no doubt they would
find farmers in every dinstinct locality
who were interested in experimental
work, and would be willing to carry it
on. He thought there would be no difficulty in finding good farmers to devote
a few acres to experiments with seeds, Â
grains, vegetable and other things in
return for a small amount to cover the
cost of the labor expended in the operations. The next item related to hide
inspection. Possibly he was anticipating
committee work by explaining these small
items, but explaining them now might
save time in committee. Under the old
Ordinance hide inspectors were appointed
who were remunerated by fees. Owing
partly to a fault in the law, and to an
unfortunate turn taken certain cases
being prosecuted, ceratin inspectors
not been able to enforce the collection of
their fees. This direct loss to the inspectors was occasioned by a fault of the
Ordinance and by difficulties in regard to
proof which would have attended the
prosecution of the cases, and the Government thought it right that the recompense
of the inspectors should be made good.
The House was asked to vote an additional
$1000 for the 16 months to hospitals.
They had never been able to give to
hospitals the amounts which it would be
desirable to give if the Territorial financial conditions were more favorable. The
hospitals of the Territories were doing
splendid work. Under an Ordinance the
Assembly provided for certain grants
which were divided proportionately
among the institutions according to the
actual work done, but the amount they
were enabled to vote had never equalled
the amount held out in the Ordinance.
The Ordinance held out 50 cents per
patient on a certain calculation. They
had never been able to pay more than 26
cents. The present year had been a
heavy one upon some of the hospitals,
particularly at Macleod and Lethbridge,
on account of the building of the Crow's
Nest railway. the one at Macleod had
had to be enlarged twice to meet the
requirements of many add itional
patients. A large amount of private aid
had been given. The same remark would
apply to Lethbridge. Of course the
patients who were railway employees
were paid for, but the dollar a day charged did not cover the whole expense, and
a large part of the work of every hospital
was left to be sustained by private
generosity. The present year was a prosperous one for the Assembly financially,
and the House could well afford this year
to increase the amount of aid for hospitals.
An item of $1200 was asked to defray the
expense of checking certain outbreaks of
disease, occuring respectively at Saskatoon, Edmonton, Pincher Creek and
Yorkton. Such votes would doubtless be
found necessary from time to time.
Hitherto the expenditure in this connection had not been large, and he was sure
they did not grudge a single cent voted
for Hospitals, Charities and Public
Health. There were in the Territories
none of those institutions which were
found necessary in older communities,—
for incurables and indigent people. We
had not those poorer classes in any number in this country. While the people
here were not rich, comparatively, yet partly because the country
was young, and the population
youthful, there were not many widows,
orphans or incurables, who have to look
to government and legislature for support
under trying conditions. He did
not think it would be wise yet to hold
out definitely any promises of support to
those classes. The holding out of a promise would to a certain extent develop a
demand. But he was sure the public did
not grudge what was voted for charitable
purposes. The average man in this country was not over-burdened with legitimate
claims upon his charity.
It being half-past twelve o'clock , Mr.
Speaker left the chair.
THE YUKON ADMINISTRATION
Resuming his speech at 2:30 o'clock,
Mr. Haultain took up the item of $6,000
for expenses of administration of Territorial affairs in the Yukon district, to
cover a special warrant. The Government's policy on that question had already
been variously and very generally discussed, but at the expense of repetition
he would recite a few of the points which
led to the organisation of the expedition,
and to the exercise of the powers conferred upon this Government of administering
certain affairs in the Yukon. Between the Dominion and the Territories
the question was not one admitting of
controversy. It had to be admitted that
the question was one of ordinary law, in
which any question of constitutional law
had no relation. It was an indisputable
fact of ordinary law that certain administration devolved upon the Lieut.-Governor
of the Territories, which meant that
the Lieut.-Governor was to administer by
and with the advice and consent of an
Executive Council. The position of
affairs in the Yukon threw a clear duty
upon the North-West Government, and
the Government proceeded to take steps
to fulfil the duty. They organised an
expedition to be sent to the district.
They sent an officer or plenipotentiary
clothed with full power to carry out the
law within the scope of the responsibilities of the Territorial Government. The
Government had been attacked with
charges of having usurped the functions
of the Legislature in not getting the
sanction of the House for their course.
That charge had already been met and
explained. The Government had stated
to the House that it was not the intention
to bring down a proposition respecting
the Yukon, but that as soon as the House
rose the question would be taken up by
the Government and the steps taken
which seemed advisable; and the statement met with a certain sort of approval
in the House. It was further charged
that the Government usurped the
functions of the Legislature in relation to the prohibitory sections
of the Act. Such charge could
have no other foundation than complete ignorance of the Act. The N .W.T.
Act was the only law on the subject.
Section 92 of the Act provided that "Except by special permission of the Govern- nor
General in Council" (at Ottawa) no
intoxicants should be manufactured in
certain parts of the Territories. The mere
fact that there were such provision in the
Act showed that it was contemplated that
at some time in the course of the development of the country there might be necessity
or desirability of allowing the
manufacture of liquor. That provision
placed beyond the chance of argument the
contention that the Act intended a prohibitory law. Regarding the sale or possession
of liquor the Act provided that
there should be none excepting by the
special permission in writing of the Lieut.
Governor of the Territories. the Act prohibited the manufacture, sale or possession
of liquor only until special permission was
given. The Act could not be read partially.
To get the intention of it the whole law
had to be read together, and even the most
casual reading would lead to the belief
that the original intention of the Act was
that there should be prohibition only so
long as conditions required prohibition,
and that when the conditions changed the
provision made for allowing the manufacture, sale or possession of liquor should be
utilized. This was the reasonable interpretation of the law. As to the point that
the Government usurped the functions
of the Legislature in regulating the importation and sale of liquor in the Yukon,
he need only point to the Act, which failed to show that the Legislature had any
functions under the section dealing with
liquor permits. The power of administration was given distinctly to the Lieut.- Governor.
The only thing the Legislature could possibly do in reagrd to the
subject would be to adopt resolutions to
guide the Executive Council. It was extremely unlikely that the Government,
being subject to the will of the House,
would exercise their executive functions in
a manner contrary to the wish of the
House; but the Legislature could not
make regulations or Ordinances. All the
House could do would be to express an
opinion, which could be done in such a
way that the Government would have to
take it for guidance or give place to a
Government which would be so guided.
As to the date upon which the Government acted would not say more than
that they acted at the very earliest possible
moment. The Legislature at last session
understood and acquiesced in the position
which practically prevented earlier
action. In support of his argument on
the interpretation of the prohibitory
sections of the Act he might quote a note- able precedent, Governor Royal's 1 per
cent permits. It had of course been
urged that Lieut.-Governor Royal infringed the spirit of the law; but the
spirit of the law, he thought, depended
upon the particular critic for the time being . It seemed plain to him that the law
intended that liquor might be sold in this
country whenever the circumstances of
the country warranted the sale. The
Territorial expedition itself had not been
entered upon until the sum of $6,000 had
come to the Assembly funds from the
Yukon source. The expense was not undertaken until the way opened up to meet
it without charging the ordinary revenues.
The mission had been called speculators, if
the Government were obliged to seek excuse, they might make an excuse
of their success. But they did not
need to do that. They had been confronted with a plain duty, and they undertook to
carry out their duty. If they
had not had means for an expedition they
would have attempted to apply the law
and the regulations otherwise. He would
admit that the need of an expedition had
not seemed so pressing when they lacked
the money for it. Poverty was the root
of a great deal of evil, and poverty might
have obliged the Government to conclude
not to send an expedition. It was fortunate that the money appeared, and from
the moment that it was in sight they had
no more doubt about the desirability of
the expedition. He would point out that
when the Legislature was in session the
money was not in sight, even if the policy
had been in sight. It would have been
difficult for the Legislature to point out
the plain duty of the Government in face
of lack of means. When the money did
appear and when the policy was framed
and adopted the Legislature was not in session, and the appropriation had to be made
under order in council. The result
of their policy and their expedition was
eminently satisfactory from the financial
point of view. Apart from the large
receipts from wholesale permits, the actual work of the expedition itself had resulted
in the collection, if his information was reliable, of a sum aggregating
$28,000, which in itself would very much
more than pay its expenses. As to the
desirability of the expedition, he expected no one would question it. In sending
it they had simply followed their plain
duty, and attempted to do what in the
circumstances ought to have been done
even if their jurisdiction had embraced
nothing but the administration in relation to liquor. It had become a matter
of common knowledge that open and unrestricted sale of liquor prevailed, with
bars open night and day and attended
with gambling and immoral devices.
And liquor was only one of many matters within this jurisdiction which would
appeal to the knowledge of the House.
There was a great number of administrative duties arising with the increasing
population in Klondyke. So good an
authority as the Minister of the Interior
expected an influx of 40,000 people last
winter and spring, and this Government
thus became responsible for seeing to the
administration of all Territorial laws relating to municipal matters and public
health. The expedition was not a whisky commission; it was sent to carry out
all the laws the administration of which,
so long as the Yukon was a part of the
Territories, devolved upon the Territorial
Government. There was the possibility
that the district would demand and deserve representation in the Assembly.
When the expedition went out there had
been no word of the cutting off of the
territory,— not the slightest indication,
beyond the vague fears expressed in the
House of the possible lopping off of
territory. In face of last year's resolution
adopted by the House, no Government
existing on the sufferance of the House
could have dared to assume that Parliament would set directly in the face of
the unanimous wish of the representa
THE LEADER, THURSDAY EVENING, SEPTEMBER 29, 1986 10
tives in the Assembly. The estimated
expected population of the Yukon amounted to as much as one-half the total population
of the organised Territories. There
was every reason to expect that before
the general election there would require
to be a redistribution which would give
the Yukon representation the House,
in which event accurate information collected by a member of the Government
would have been most desirable. It was
true that a different destiny had overtaken
the Yukon territory, but he was
arguing from the point of view of last
winter and from the conditions and circumstances and possibilities which the
Government had had to consider at the
time. The financial side of their policy
was fully justified. There was no use inThe Government were taking no part in
the Territorial exhibition in the Institute,
considering that the matter belonged to
the Federal authority which retains ex- after itself. Referring to Mr.
[?]
tion. But the subscription would have to
be paid, as it was agreed to by an authority
competent at the time to make an agreement for the Territories. For some time
Messrs. Redpath and Skinner, Canadian
trustees of the Institute, had been themselves paying the Territorial subscription.
The time had some for the Territories to
carry out the agreement made in their
name,- to pay what is owing, but no
more. No doubt the intention was excellent, but there were no such strikingly
good results from it as would justify, in
the state of Territorial finances, the payment of $500 a year or even a lesser
amount. The connection would be discontinued.
arguing that they should have known that
the territory would be cut off. Even if
they had known that their jurisdiction
would cease on 14th June, the expedition
would still be justified. As to the mission
all the particulars to be had before the
return of the Commissioner had been
given, and he would leave the question to
the judgement of the House.
A FOREIGN APPROPRIATION.
The next item was one of $750 "to pay
the Imperial Institute the proportion of
expenses of the Canadian Court allotted
to the Territories to Dec., 1898" He
said that this one of the rapidly diminishing items, a few of which remained as a
legacy from a previous period when the
business of the country was carried on by
the Lieut.-Governor and was left in practically irresponsible hands. In 1894 the
capital amount due on this particular
agreement was $1824. The agreement
had been made by the Lieut.-Governor
and the Minister of Interior, the former
in reality, acting upon instructions from
the latter; and by it the Department was
to provide $1,300, the Territories paying
$500. Thus the Territories were committed to the payment of that annual amount
for the Territorial Court in the Institute.
The arrangement would not be renewed.
THE VISITING AMERICAN JOURNALISTS.
Under the heading of Miscellanous
there was an item to assist in defraying
the expense of the entertainment of
parties of members of American press
associations. He had been personally
present at the entertainment given to one
of these parties at Regina. From what
he could gather from the very large number of papers received, he had no hesitation
at all in stating that he plan was a
first rate one. The country had received
an amount of practically free and most
appreciative advertising in the States
represented by these parties through
which we could reasonably hope to get an
immigration that no expenditure in the
way of salaries and expenses of agents
could bring about. Certain communities
undertook to arrange entertainment for
the parties, and the Government was
asked to help to defray the expenses. In
no case were they proposing to pay more
than half the expense incurred by communities. For every dollar the Government would
pay, the communities paid a
dollar of their own.
TO CARRY ON NEXT YEAR'S SERVICES.
In addition to the supplementaries, the
House was aksed to appropriate $60,000
for 1899. In changing the financial year
they had several ends in view. One aim
was to enable the holding of the annual
legislative sessions in the early portion of
the year instead of in the fall; and in
arranging for winter sessions, to enable
the public accounts to be brought down
within a reasonable time after the closing
of the financial year. They had to allow
for a certain length of time to elapse
between the closing of the year and the
closing of the accounts,- either that or
make use of Lieut.-Governor's warrants,
because the accounts of no business whose
year ended on a certain date could be
closed up sharp on that date. They had
approximated the desirable arrangement
now- an unwritten and flexible arrangement of course- of having the House
called early in the year. The Treasury
Ordinance allowed one month after
the end of the year for the closing
of the accounts, and it would not be desirable to call the House together until
four or six weeks after the new year. It
was desirable that it should be called
not later than he had indicated. It
would be unconstitutional for the Government to advise prorogation now with
dissolution and elections approaching and
with a new financial year commencing
before the new Legislature could well
meet, without asking Supply sufficient
to carry on the public business until the
new House was likely to meet. The
amount so voted would practically settle
the period at which the new House
would have to be called. In asking an a
amount for this purpose they were simply
following Canadian constitutional precedents- following the regular practice
of the provinces. The amount asked
($60,000) was not large enough to allow
the Government to run on very long
without a session. Two-thirds of the
amount, or $40,000, would be paid out
in January for school grants, leaving
only $20,000 to carry on the ordinary
business until the House met. So there
was no need to apprehend any violent
strain, or any attempt on the part of the
Government to carry on the business too
long without the sanction of the new
Legislature. The amount, the House
would understand, would have to be re- voted in the Estimates of the next session.
THE LESSON OF THE ESTIMATES.
He had now completed the explanation
of the Estimates, and had explained in
detail and at length, which would save
time later on. He thought he had explained every important item. Apart
from those items there were certain
matters which this was an appropriate
time to consider. The amount asked in
the supplementaries was extraordinarily
and unexpectedly large. The most
significant feature of the Estimates, it
seemed to him, was the fact that
although the revenue for this year was so
very far in excess of their ordinary revenue, there appeared to be necessity for all
of it. Here they were in the middle or
just a little past the middle of a financial
year for which Supply had already been
voted, and without going outside the fyles
of the office,- merely upon the representations sent in by members, engineers
and others, of work which demanded public expenditure, they easily found ample
scope for the application of the extraordinary revenue. The new departures
made were insignificant financially. Upon the old and regular services they easily
found places for the disposition of the
increase. If they could so easily expend
the remarkably large amount- because
$162,000 was a remarkably large amount
to be supplementary to the regular revenue, they must conclude that the ordinary
revenue was now by no means adequate
to supply the ordinary wants of the Territories. This conclusion had been looked
upon as not far away before, but it was
driven home with force to-day. Then
followed the other question. What were
they to do? In a single year they were
expending upon actual requirements and
necessities $162,000 more than in future
years they were likely to get. Their
necessities were constantly increasing,
their services were growing, and the needs
would never become less. What were
they to do? It was plain that they could
not possibly look for any such increases
in revenue in future years. But the
growth of the services, the extensions of
schools, and other conditions obliged them
to look for some means of obtaining an increase in revenue. They were brought
to the point which he had discussed last
year. The present transitory state
was in a way very suitable, yet they
were confronted with the fact that it did
yield enough money to meet the conditions. The problem was one which
would very soon have to be faced. It
was all very well to say that the present
institutions were suitable; that was very
true. The Territories were not fixed and
bound down by Imperial Acts as were
the Provinces. We were not bound
by fixed agreement or final terms. Our
position depended only upon an Act of
Parliament which might be amended
or changed, and our Vote depended
upon the annual will of Parliament, and
could be increased at Parliament's pleasure. If the Territorial financial problem
were solved, our present institutions
would be suitable for all needs for some
time to come. Our legislative jurisdiction was the same as possessed by the
provinces, excepting that we lacked the
borrowing power. In all respects, except the financial side, the legislative
machinery and position were quite adequate. But the financial side was vital.
The machinery and institutions must
have money to keep them in operation.
However excellent or desirable those institutions, the country was confronted with
the fact that the machinery and institutions were no longer feasible if side by
side with them there was failure from
the financial point of view. There seemed to be only one thing to do, only one
step to take to relieve the position; and
they should prepare for that step as practical men, not as theorists. The argument
that provincial establishment meant
taxation might be a very useful argument
with which to appeal to the populace,
and with which to carry meetings, but
to men who take the trouble to see all
sides of the question there was only one
conclusion to come to, and that was that
very little hope existed of relieving the
atrain except by the Territories taking
the final step and entering the confederation of provinces. It could not reasonably
be hoped that Parliament would give
the necessary increase in the present grants;
and in his view it would be the principal
work of the new Legislature at least before the end of the next term to open
negotiations for t he entrance of the Territories into confederation. Personally
he was not an ardent provincialist. He
had always taken the ground that it was
well to make haste slowly, and so long
as we could work out our own salvation
he favored the present status. But if
we could not get the necessary revenues
we simply could not continue to carry
on the business. He had no hesitation
in saying that even within the next
year they would be unable to provide
fully for the ordinary services with the
pressent ordinary revenue. The rate at which
the schools were growing while very gratifying was none the less embarrassing. In
every direction there was increasing
growth, and every step of development
in the school system meant an additional
demand on the exchequer. There was
every reason now to look for much more
rapid growth than in the past. Every
thing seemed to have taken a favorable
turn. The Yukon had advertised the
North-West Territories all over the civilised world, and more attention would be
called to this country when the results
of the present harvest became known.
There was every indication of a flow of immigration which unfortunately, however
ardently hoped for, had not materialised
in past years. So they had to look forward to increased inroads on the revenue
available for schools and public works.
To have to reduce the school grants would
be a very distasteful necessity, but it
would be a necessity in the near future
if the present rate of increase in the
school attendance continued, and if some
remedy was not found financially. He
thought unless the remedy was found the
present school grants could not be continued for more than two years longer; and
even next year, with the revenue no larger
than the present year's ordinary revenue,
when the amounts for schools were provided little would be left for public works
and other purposes. As practical men
they must conclude that the present institutions would not do if joined with the
financial embarrassment. Outside of the
method of direct taxation for only method open was to negotiate for entrance to
confederation. There was no question
that when we went in we would receive
more money than we receive now.
Whether we would receive all that the
Territories would be entitled to was a
different question, depending on the Government and Legislature of the day, depending
on the men entrusted with
the negotiations. The settlement would
not be consummated to-day, nor possibly
next year, but the question was one which
it seemed to him the new Legislature
would have to take up, and he thought
it was the most important question that
the new Legislature would have to deal
with. He made this statement for the
Government as showing that the future
attitude of this Government would have
the end of the provincial establishment in
view.
VISION WAS NOT ALTOGETHER GOLDEN.
He had no thought that the change would
make us wealthy. He had called attention last year to the fact that when the
Territories are erected under provincial
establishment we would have to provide
for several services which were no provided by the Federal Parliament.
Among these items was the administration of justice which, exclusive of the
salaries of the judges, costs $32,000 a
year; towards agricultural societies in
the Territories the Dominion pays $7,000
annually; $15,000 was expended last year
and $5,000 was being expended this year
in aid of creameries in the Territories,
besides $200,000 last year and $165,000
this year passed in aid of dairying generally, a large part of which was expended
for the benefit of the Territories. The
question of dairying was, by the way,
one which confronted the Assembly; at
no distant date no doubt they would be
obliged to deal with that subject. The
Mounted Police expenditure- $385,000
last year and $353,000 this year, of
course he would always argue was an
expenditure upon a federal force. The
police were a federal necessity on account
of the Indians, and were not for local
purposes. The Dominion Public Works
department made may expenditures in
the North-West for objects of provincial
character. The Dominion built no jails
nor court houses in the provinces. All
these services, now carried out at federal
expense, would fall upon the local
authority under provincial establishment.
Then there was the vote from which the
Assembly derived the bulk of its revenues,- the vote for Government of the
North-West Territories,- $358,000 last
year, of which $282,000 came to the
Assembly. The balance, expended from
Ottawa, was for strictly domestic matters,
including the maintenance of insane
patients, the land titles offices, the expenses of Lieut.-Governor's office and
Government House. besides the foregoing
the Dominion was this year expending
$150,000 upon surveys in the North- West, an item which would be charged
against the capital account of the
Territories, and which belonged to the
domestic side, although so long as the
Dominion holds the Crown lands the item
could not be properly chargeable against
us. However, he hoped that some day
the item would appear in the Territorial
Estimates. He certainly believed that
we were as much entitled to
POSSESSION OF EVERY ACRE
of public lands as was any of the provinces. The bargain with the Hudson's
Bay Company, by which a paltry amount
was paid over from the Dominion
treasury, was not to buy the country but
to extinguish an imaginary title. The
mere fact of that bargain did not in any
sense constitute ownership. He believed
that when we became erected into a
province we would be as much entitled to
all the lands, mines, hay and timber
as the other provinces which hold and
derive the revenues from these sources.
It would be an important, difficult and
perhaps delicate task to discuss this
matter in the negotiations, but he did not
believe it was a matter to be left at the
bare dictation of Parliament. Although
Parliament possessed the right to erect
a province or provinces, the question of
the lands and minerals involved a larger
constitutional and legal right. His own
opinion was that there was a strictly legal
right to depend upon, and that such right
might be successfully prosecuted before
the highest tribunal in the realm if
necessary. (Prolonged applause.)
ONE GRAND, UNITED, STRONG PROVINCE.
There was only one way to begin the
negotiations for erection as a province- not as provinces. He had had the misfortune
to hear in that room an expression
of a wish for division. There was no
sound grounds for such a wish. Such
desire was not founded upon any sound
reason relating to administration or expenditure or anything else. It was an
expression simply of local ambitions. He
did not believe a single argument had
ever been advanced in favor of division
other than the desire of some locality
relating to the capital establishment and
the incidental local expenditure attending
such establishment. (Applause.) He
had heard a number of speeches but he
hd not yet heard a single convincing
argument in favor of division. It seemed
to him that there was every reason for a
single province. As far as concerned
administration, where was the difficulty?
What point was so remote in these
days of telephones, telegraphs and railways, - and in later days doubtless these
conveniences would grow in scope and
usefulness,- what point was so remote
that the affairs of government could not
be administered as well practically, so far
as distance went, from the North Pole as
from any other point? With one province
they would avoid the elaboration of governments; they would have one strong
and efficient set of machinery instead of a
duplication of trebling of functionaries.
So far as concerned any differences of interest or geographical location, there was
not a single argument. In the Territories
there was a great diversity of interest, but
there was no conflict of interests. He
had been a member of that House for
ten years and of the North-West Council
which preceded it; he had, he thought,
taken a fairly active share in the work,
and he could say that he did not recollect
any single occasion when there had been
any conflict in the interest upon any question
raised in the House. That the situation
showed diversity of interests, of conditions,
of climate and of population was certain,
which simply made the necessary diversity of
treatment. That there had been any
failure to deal with the diversified interests and conditions could not be successfully
charged. They frequently made
exceptions in the laws in favor of different
areas with different conditions. There
never had been conflict. All the representatives had always had a ready hearing
and had had full scope to carry out what
was best for their particular part of the
country. He did not mention this topic
because of any indication in the House
respecting conflicting interests, but there
had been cries in the country, and he had
heard rumors of such places as Alberta,
Assiniboia and Saskatchewan. These
places were never heard of in the House
in relation to legislation or administration.
He would strongly depreciate such cries at
this particular and critical point in the
history of the country. Now was the
time to drop all local, or conflicting questions and stand shoulder to shoulder on
the important question which affected no
one portion but all of the Territories as a
unit. We had not yet population equal
to the number of inhabitants of one eastern city, but the resources and the
opportunities which were ours should
nerve us to make the best effort
to do the best with those resources
and opportunities, and to push forward in
the direction best for the future of the
Territories.
NO LACK OF POLICY.
At this point Mr. Haultain stated that he
feared he was taking up too much time,
but there were cried of Go on, Go on.
Proceeding he said he would like to make
some reference to the matter of policy.
He thought no one could say, even in regard to those supplementary estimates
alone, that there was any lack of policy.
In every item there was policy cropping
up. He made a hasty review of the items.
The item for civil government involved a
policy, - the policy of maintaining efficient
departments, developing the public service for the convenience of the people, of
having the public business done systematically, and for providing machinery for
carrying on the work with efficiency and
economy.The items for schools were associated with their educational policy,
which no one would deny was in the
right direction,- a policy to give a good
plain practical education to every child in
the Territories, and to have the children
associated and educated together without
any regard to race, religion or other consideration; they had avoided a number of
the delicate and difficult questions which
had divided the people in some of the
provinces, and to-day the Territorial system was, if not in name, in reality a national
school system- if not in name, it
was merely by reason of a certain constitutional right which he would not wish to,
and there was to reason to, disturb.
Their policy was to group all the children
in the public schools regardless of class or
position, creed or nationality, and their
policy aimed at the extension of the sys
tem as far and as wide as the resources
would allow. They paid as liberal
grants to schools as any country in the
world, which grants made it possible for
the smallest conceivable community or
collection of individuals to have a school
and made it possible for nearly every child,
- for every child except in very isolated
localities to receive the advantages of a
plain, common education. The aim of
the system was to give a good common
education rather than to support the
higher branches. The Government believed of course in higher education, and
in time they would have to extend in that
direction; but as yet they found the
necessity of being strictly practical, situated as they were yet in the position of
settlers and pioneers. The development
of the public, moon schools was the
whole object as yet. The results of their
policy in regard to the training of teachers
they could look upon already with pride.
The Territories were becoming independent of the eastern provinces in the matter
of supply of teachers. Of the higher
grade teachers the supply was exceeding
the demand. The item for inspection of
coal mines indicated a policy,- a policy to
look after the interests and lives of the
men toiling in the mines; the item was
small but it met the actual requirements.
The public works items revealed policy,- the policy to do what was required to be
done as substaintially as possible, and to
distribute the amounts available for
public works equitably between the
natural divisions of the country, - a policy
to provide first the most needful and important works in the way of main highways,
bridges, and water supply. They
had a policy respecting surveys,- very
important because it concerned the means
of communication with markets and between centres. In regard to Agriculture
they were devising a policy in keeping
with the traditions of the North-West
Government. All their institutions had
begun small and grown slowly. The
agricultural policy now proposed was
proportionate with their resources if not
with their needs. The Government had
recognized the necessity of action in the
line of encouragement of those industries
which are the foundation of all possible
prosperity in this country; and as soon as
money became available their policy appeared. The items under the heading of
Hospitals, Charities and Public Health
indicated policy,- the policy of avoiding
a large number of institutions which
might constitute a sort of invitation to
helpless classes. The item for Yukon
expenses was connected with a very
distinct policy in relation to the administration of affairs in the Yukon, - a policy
for which the Government claimed credit;
it was a policy to assert the self governing rights of the people of the Territories
and to resist the arbitrary stack of the
Federal Government which attempted to
take away certain of those self-governing
rights. They had grappled with the
difficulties of far-off conditions,-difficulties which, to judge by some of the criticisms
of their policy, were extremely
dangerous. But their policy shirked
neither the difficulties nor dangers.
The Government took their decided stand
in connection with the Yukon question
not so much in their own behalf as in
behalf of the self-governing machinery
which members of the Governmennt had
taken considerable hand and part in obtaining for the Territories. For policy he would
also point to the Statutes. He need not
enumerate the laws and Ordinances,
every one of which was associated with
distinct policy. Some people were asking, What was the policy of the Government? In
certain small communities
there were men who seemed to be sitting
waiting for something, for some new and
brilliant scheme with which the Government would appeal to the country at the
election. He might say at once that there
would be no appeal to the House or to the
country on any new policy, or on any
policy not appearing in the Estimates or
as written in every page of their Statute
book. The Government's policy would
not be found in flippant speeches calculated to tickle the ears and to arouse
the short-lived enthusiasm of audiences,
nor in bald resolutions. Their policy
was one of practical legislation,- a policy
to deal wisely with actual conditions for
the best interest of the country and the
people. The names of the Ordinances
he need not repeat,- were they not written in the book of the Statutes? And
could not the members of the Government reasonably claim that they had been
mainly instrumental in the initiation and
framing of all the legislation within the
past ten years? He did not make the
claim as a boast. People who were
searching for the Government's policy
needed only to read the Statutes and they
would find a policy worthy of their time and
attention and which if they followed closely enough could not fail to make them
wiser and better citizens. Only one suggestion had ever been made within his
knowledge by these people who clamored
for a policy. He would say that the
Government did not ask to be supplied
with a policy by the critics. The Government was never so badly off that they
needed to trouble themselves searching
for policies. But in all the criticisms and
in all the little remarks made by little
writers in little newspapers respecting the no-policy of the
Government, he had failed to see
any indication of suggestion to supply the
alleged lack. They did not ask their
critics to make them a policy; and if the
critics had suggested policies the Government would likely have been glad
not to be able to accept them. But
approaching the end of a term of
the Assembly, the critics ought to
come down and be a little more definite.
It would certainly be unfair to ask them
to give away their hands, if they hold
any hands, but they should surely be able
to show where there had been deficiency,
- to show that where, concerning any
individual, class or interest, action had
been demanded, action had not been taken. It was surely time now for these
dumb oracles to speak. But they speak
not, and there is heard only the general
and unsatisfactory statement that the
Government have no policy. From now
on he was going to ay in answer to that
statement, What policy? Policy upon
what? The policy of the Government was crystallized upon the
pages of the statute book of the Territories. They had so dealt with every
subject calling for attention that in all
the criticisms there was failure to show
any deficiencies. On the question of
Dominion political lines in local affairs,
the Government had a distinct policy.
The Government's belief was that there
was sufficiently important business in the
Assembly and to be dealt with by the
Government upon which party divisions
could arise, and when the divisions came
the Government would be prepared to take
their own part and fight out their own
side. But they would oppose the introduction of lines and names and cries
which had nothing to do with the business
entrusted to the Government and to the
House. The single item of suggested deficiency in their policy was in respect of
immigration. In one sense the Government did not have a policy on that subject. They
attempted nothing in the
way of fitting out agents to scour the byways of the world, and compel people to
come here. They did not have a policy
because they did not have jurisdiction.
In the North-West constitution the
subject of immigration was expressly left
out. They had no legal right to deal
with the subject. But on the other hand
even if they had the right they would not
do differently. Their policy relating to
immigration, for they had a policy, was a
solid policy to attempt to meet the needs
of the people who are in th ecountry and
the people who may come to the
Territories, by providing roads, bridges
and means of communication, schools
and other useful institutions throughout
the country so as to be available for all,
even for those settled in remote parts; to
provide economical and efficient administration of the laws, and to make good
laws suitable and applicable to the
peculiar and particular conditions of
the Territories The Government did
not propose legislation because similar
laws had been adopted in Ontario or anywhere else. They endeavored to make
laws suitable to the conditions of the
people and localities of this country.
They believed that this was a good immigration policy,- to provide ready means
of communication to the country, to promote a harmonious state of society, and
to assist in making the conditions of the
communities of the country such that
people could live in them and be prosperous and contended. They provided
roads and bridges, good schools and good
Institutions of all necessary, advisable and
possible kinds, with this object. They
offered to people seeking homes a country free from debt and practically free
from taxation; and the Government
believed that, in the financial position of
the Assembly, their immigration policy
was the best which could be devised for
years to come. Mr. Haultain thanked
the house for the patient hearing given
an exceedingly long and, he was afraid,
dry speech. He had detailed the Estimates, and hoped he had not overlooked
any material fact or important point.
He trusted that the Estimates would
meet the views of the House and if passed adequately meet the idea of helping all
the interests of the country and maintain
efficiently the public service. Having
spoken a little more than three hours
the Premier sat down amid the enthusiastic plaudits of the members.
said that in the absence of the leader of
the Opposition and his first lieutenant,
it would devolve upon himself to make
some reply to the able deliverance the
House had listened to, and he felt quite
unequal to the task. However, he had
always assumed the role of opposition to
his friend the hon. leader of the Government. He recognised in Mr. Haul- tain an able
leader,- the ablest man in
the House and the best fitted to fulfill
the duties of the position he occupied.
But there was necessity for some opposition. It did not matter how good a
Government was, there were bound to be
some flaws in its acts,- something to
pick a hole in, and to which improvement might be suggested. But to criticise so able
and lucid an exposition as
given that day by Mr. Haultain was not
an easy matter. He would have to go
back to last year's Estimates for points
to criticse. The leader had made very
clear explanation of the necessity of increase in the civil service, but he
thought the increase was going beyond
the ability of the country. There was no
tangible evidence of increase in the population equal to the increase in the service.
He could not understand why the departmental work had grown so largely. The
Government were lavish and extravagant
in the salaries. These should not be
gauged by salaries paid in the East.
Mr. Mowat thought they should be
gauged by the ability of the country to
pay. He admitted that living costs a
little more here. They had one official
drawing more salary than the leader of
the Government.
Mr. Mowat thought the members of
the Government were getting as much as
the country could afford to pay. If they
were in the East undoubtedly they would
be worth higher salaries, because the provinces were better able to pay. When
the Government saw ahead financial hard
times, as the House had been told, they
should have guarded against that day by
curtailing the expenses. Another official
drawing a high salary was the deputy public works commissioner. He would not
deprecate the best man for the position, and,
in the rich provinces, would be worth all
he received
[?] the Territories could
not afford to pay such high-priced men.
Mr. Mowat condemned the Government
because the Consolidated Ordinances were
not printed. The expenditure upon the
consolidation last year was largely wasted.
The Government had of course explained
the failure to print. They said tenders
were called, and the lowest tenderer refused to agree to turn out the work within
the time desired. Even after the explanation he (Mr. Mowat) still felt that
some other reason existed. Perhaps the
time limit was put on to prevent the successful tenderer from doing the work.
The Government said that other tenderers were ready to do it within the time.
Mr. Mowat believed there was one other
party who could do it because he had a
great part of the work up in type. Possibly the Government knowing this and
wanting their favorite to get the work
put on the time limit for the purpose of
giving their friend the contract.
Mr. Haultain- By what we are hearing
this afternoon, it is hard to know who are
one's friends.
Turning to the matter of the Peace
River road expenditure, Mr., Mowat noticed that the House heard none of the
eloquence which the member for Victoria
and other Northern Alberta members
poured fourth last year respecting the Edmonton route. The Assembly had been
lamentably short sighted in voting money
towards that road. The money
was thrown away. Parties who
were misled and who went in
by Edmonton were now coming back and
cursing the route. The House no doubt
felt the humiliation of the mistake. Anyway the silence on the subject of the
Edmonton route this session was a great
contrast to the noise made last session.
The Commissioner of Public Works had
had a pleasant excursion over the road,
but the House had got no inkling relating
to the trip, excepting its cost ($100). Be
could not cavil at the cost.
Mr. Maloney said the opening of the road
put more money in Mr. Maloney's district
than was justifiable. He had noticed last
year that Mr. Maloney had been hobnobbing a great deal with the Commissioner no doubt
making good use of Irish
blarney. The result was to be seen in
the amounts spent in St. Albert. Mr.
Mowat condemned the taking over of the
Irrigation administration. The Government refused to touch immigration, quite
rightly. They should have refused to
touch irrigation as well. It was argued
that irrigation was an assistance to certain
settlers, but the interest and assistance
were not wide spread. In any case the
settlers were not deprived of irrigation
before. There had been irrigation legislation for several years. The taking over
of the department was premature. It
was another department taken over unnecessarily before the time was ripe.
Referring to what he termed the very able
reports of Mr. Dennis respecting the
benefits of the transfer. Mr. Mowat said
he thought that Mr. Dennis, would he
advised that the administration could be
done at Regina for half what it as costing at Ottawa, was looking out for himself.
It was a mistake to accept the administration for less than it had been
costing. Ever cent should have been
demanded. And he believed that Mr.
Dennis was getting an extra $900 through
the transfer. (
Several members,- Hear,
hear.) Mr. Mowat held that the deputy
commissioner should give his whole time
to the department for which the Assembly
paid him $2,000. The Public Works
Estimates were so mixed that Mr. Mowat
could not understand them nor distinguish them. Each member might be able
to find his own, but one could not tell what
the other fellow was getting. It was bad
policy to imitate the provincial and
Dominion plan of making the Estimates
intricate.
Mr. Maloney - How did you manage
to find the St. Albert items?
Mr. Mowat found fault became no
printed statement of the estimated revenues had been given the House. (Mr.
Haultain at once sent to Mr. Mowat a
type written statement.) He had no
fault to find with Mr. Robson's appointment as law clerk. He had recognised as
far back as his first session in the House
the serious need of a law clerk. The
first break he made in the House was
with a new school bill, the provisions of
which bill he took pride in saying were
still the main provisions of the school
law. In fact the school law emanated
from himself, although somewhat improved since he introduced it. But when
he brought in that bill and ever since he
had seen the need of a law clerk. The
appointment was a good one. Mr.
Robson was one of the ablest lawyers in
the country. He had known him from
boyhood, and had the greatest respect for
him both in regard to ability and application. He did not agree with the next
appointment, that of Mr. Peterson as
Agriculture deputy. What were his
qualifications? With a small primitive
department it was a mistake to allot a
salary as high as $1,200. The department was only of minor importance as yet.
As to public works Mr. Mowat had no
complaint to make for his own district.
He admitted that the princple of not
equally dividing between electoral districts was proper. In the Education
items the Premier had omitted to explain the vote for paying certain district
debentures; he had not referred to that
among the various policies he enunciated.
Mr. Mowat opposed the principle of paying the debenture indebtedness of school
districts which have failed through the
removal of inhabitants. It was a dangerous precedent to establish. The money
lenders when they advance money know
the risks they assume, and should bear
the risks. He could see no reason
for the vote. The plan to initiate
agricultural experimental work he
also opposed. That matter devolved
upon the Dominion. The Dominion's
work at Indian Head was bearing good
results. The North-West lacked the means
to cope with such, and the vote the
House was asked to pass was too small
to do any good. He looked at the scheme
as an election dodge. The policy would
he heralded in the newspapers. Every
Tom, Dick, and Harry would think they
had just the ability for farm instructors
and just the right farm for the experiments, and they would apply to Mr.
Ross, who with $2,500 was going to do
the whole business. Mr. R as would say,
Just hold on, we can't attend to this thing
all at once. Before the refusal would have
to be given the elections would be over.
If the Assembly could prevail on the Dominion to spread their experiments, it
would be good policy. He would favor
asking the Dominion to do so, and it
would be all right to assist the Dominion
with $2,500, but he thought that amount
unaided would not accomplish much.
He had heard they were to have a new
scheme respecting agricultural societies.
Where was it gone to? Mr. Ross had
submitted a printed plan or sketch of a
new scheme before the Agricultural Committee; he seemed to have taken back
water. Personally he approved the
scheme, and only wished Mr. Ross had
had the back bone to press it. On the
Yukon question Mr. Mowat said he had
never questioned the advisability of the
Government's policy. They were to be
commended for grappling with the
situation. His objection was that action
was not taken early enough, and he
could not agree with the Premier's
statement that the Legislature had no
power to pass ordinances on the subject
of Yukon liquor. He claimed that the
Legislature had the power after the 1st
Oct., 1897. The Government should
have taken the House into its confidence.
The House rose on 15th Dec., and on
28th Dec. orders in council were being
passed. The claim was made that the
Government could not act because they
were poverty stricken. Mr Haultain
certainly knew that the $6,000 was
coming.
Mr. Mowat said the Government knew
that the Lieut.-Governor had been issuing
liquor permits.
Mr. Mowat held that in any caase the
Government should have got the sanction
of the House for their course. It was
strange that of the emissaries sent out a
part had returned and of the other part
they could get no word. There was something wrong. There was a nigger in the
fence. The Government should feel anxious in that peculiar circumstance. He
expected that they would have sent a special messenger to meet Mr. Bulyea and
hurry him up. He would like to know
where Bulyea was. Perhaps he was afraid
to come back and give an account. Bulyea was a strong temperance man and
perhaps had made a muddle of the business. Perhaps he had instituted a temperance
question or a question of prohibition in the Yukon. Concluding, Mr.
Mowat said he would like to go at the
Executive Council, but they were good
fellows, and in one way he hated to pitch
into them. Now that he was leaving the
House, he hoped that he enjoyed their
good will. They had had their tilts, and
often he had beencalled down, but he
was not thin skinned. The five executive
councillors were men of ability. In
fact he thought that the ability of
the House sat on the right side of
Mr. Speaker, where he himself had his
seat. Mr. Haultain was a good first minister, and Mr. Ross was capable, amiable and
agreeable first lieutenant. Of
the remaining members, one perhaps devoted a little too much attention to bridging
in Mitchell district; aother was hidden away in the golden north. With the
fifth (Mr. Magrath) he had a tilt recently, but was free to say he believed
Mr. Magrath was a good, honest, representative, although he perhaps did look
after the interests of his employers too
much, as was evidenced by his frequent
absences from the House and also by some
of the bills he introduced in the House.
Mr. Mowat said he expected to get round
shot and shell in return for his crticisms,
but he would endeavor to take the dose
with good nature. (Applause.)
said that he believed the members for
both South and North Regina would have
no objection to doing away entirely with
the district of St. Albert. If Mr. Mowat
would study the report of the Commissioner of Public Works upon the amount
Statute of Labor done in St. Albert and
compare it with the work in South Regina, he would get a better idea of the
reason for the difference in the grants if
there was a difference. If Mr. Mowat
had looked after South Regina as keenly
as he was looking after St. Albert, Mr.
Maloney thought he might be living there
yet instead of leaving the district to look
after itself. Reffering to Mr. Mowat's
attack on the Peace River road, Mr. Maloney said that a portion of the road was
in his district. Mr Ross had had travelled
two or three hundred miles in St. Albert,
but had seen only a small portion of the
district. It as a district entitled to a
good grant. The Statute Labour re[prt
showed that in St. Albert before the matter became compulsory more work was
done voluntarily in one season than was
done in South Regina and and several other
districts in many seasons. He knew
nothing about any hobnobbing with the
Commisioner. Mr. Mowat had given a
sermon in the agriculture line. If in the
celebrated school bill, which he had boasted about, he had provided for agriculture
in the schools, there would not be so much
need now for an agricultural policy. As
to the Yukon route Mr. Maloney said it
was through no fault of the Edmonton
route that people turned back. The road
from Edmonton to St. Albert was not a
hard road, but some of the people who
thought to go to Yukon were unfit and unable to follow the telegraph line from Edmonton
to St. Albert. Men who knew
how to travel succeeded on the Edmonton
route, and he could show some preoceeds
from the efforts of one man whpo went
in that way. (Mr. Maloney exhibited a
nugget attached to his chain). On the
whole Mr. Maloney felt like complimenting the member for South Regina who
always manged to say something; whether what he said was to the point or not
was of course a different matter.
At 5:30 o'clock Mr. Speaker left the
chair. When the House resumed at 8
o'clock the first member to take the floor
was
who replied to statements made Mr.
Mowat against the Peace River road.
Mr. Tims considered the expenditure had
been petty considering the importance of
the work. The road had no necessary
bearing on the Yukon route question.
Ten years ago, before the Yukon was
heard of, the opening of a road to Peace
River had been petitioned for. There
were extensive settlements at Peace River
er and also Slave Lake. At Peace
River there was three mills, and at Slave
Lake there was a mill. Mills were not
erected and operated where there were no
settlers. But the settlements were handicapped by having no outlet except by
water. The opening of the road had
benefited not only Peace River but Edmonton and Canada at large. Many who
went in this year with their minds set on
gold, when they saw the kind of country
there was at Peace River decided to commence farming there, and the opened up a country
which would be a source
of wealth to the Dominion. In opening
the road the Assembly was looking after
the interests of the people who, although in a
remote part, were just as much citizens
of the Territories as any other people. As
to the miners, so so-called miners, who
were returning unsuccessful, Mr. Tims
said that of the men who went into the
northern district to search for gold, not
one in ten was a genuine miner, and many
of them were unfitted to be let loose outside of city limits. In March last the
Town of Edmonton engaged Mr. W. Taylor to make a trip to Pelly Banks. He
made the trip, went 30 miles down the
Pelly river, and was back at Edmonton
in July, which proved that the road was
not extremely difficult for anyone who
knew how to travel. Mr. Tims
was glad that the Commissioner of Public
Works had had the courage of of his convictions to proceed with the opening of the
Peace River road, and had had the pluck
as well to make a trip over the road. Mr.
Ross and Mr. McCauley made the trip
over 260 miles of the road in six days-
not bad travelling. Mr. Tims gave details of some of the business which the
opening of the road had already created,
showing that from points in Manitoba,
also Battleford, Qu'Appelle, India Head,
horses and stock had been sent in,- a
movement which the road was wholly to
be credited with. He computed that
$100,000 in cash had be circulated this
year by it. Dr. Dawson stated that the
best place to prospect for coarse gold was
juts over the first range of mountains.
From Peace River access could be had to
that region; it was only 300 miles from
Peace River, through a country open to
either wagon road or railway. FromÂ
Peace River there was access also up the
Nelson river, and up a branch to the west
of Fort Halkett; and up the Liard Valley on to Lake Francis, and to the head
waters of the Yukon. No wiser expenditure had been made than that upon the
opening of the road. Before sitting down
the speaker heartily congratulated Mr.
Haultain upon his able, concise and businesslike speech on the budget.
expressed gratification with Mr. Haultain's
very clear statement of the affairs of the
Territories. He endorsed the Yukon
policy, and thought action had been taken justin the nick of time. The mission
had proved a success financially and otherwise. The institution of an Agri [?]
Department Mr. Agnew believed was a
good move. At present the great majority of farmers never get to see the experimental
farms. He believed the scheme
for promotion of stock interests feasible. The heavy freights prevented stockmen from
bringing in thoroughbreds sires
The barrier had already been partially removed by the railway companies, but it
was high yet, and the Government's plan
would be a great assistance. He was satisfied with the brands registration and
with its administration; and his wonder
was that a law clerk had not been engaged
long ago; many errors of legislation
might have been saved. The increase in
schools and the number of higher class
teachers was bound to be pleasing to all
He regretted that no mention had been
made of the French settlement schools.
Mr. Haultain had visited those settlements, and Mr. Agnew had expected to
hear that the schools would be re-opened;
they ought to be re-opened with teachers
having both languages. The people were
unable to provide their own teachers, and
unable to carry on the business of a school
district. Their farms were very small;
the hunting and freighting they were now
deprived of. Their old modes of livelihood had been taken away from them.
The children were no duller than others,
and should not be deprived of education.
The parents were anxious that their
children should be taught English as well
as French, recognising that English was
the chief language of the country. Mr.
THE LEADER, THURSDAY EVENING, SEPTEMBER 29, 1898
11
Agnew opposed the payment of defunct
school district debentures, commended the proposal to obtain in you Territorial map.
As to the salary of the deputy
in the agricultural department, he thought
it looked large, but if the gentleman was
qualify for the position it was not large
and of two complaint against. He noticed
an item of $75.00 for a Speaker's chair.
That was not a large sum for a good chair,
but care should be exercised in its selection. There was a small man in the
House who wore a hat so large that it had
to be padded: perhaps the man expected
the head to swell, but it was impossible-the head was already as large as
it would ever be. In buying a chair, one
should be got which would not need to be
padded.
Mr. Speaker-The point of order is not
well taken. The hon. gentleman own
sense of good taste will prevent him
making any statement against one whose
position prevents any reply.
Mr. Agnew - I am very sorry. Mr.
Speaker, that your position muzzles you.
After brief references to the hospitals
items, and to the work of agricultural
societies, Mr. Agnew concluded his remarks.
has not great fault to find the supplementary estimates. The first grant for
the salary of a law clerk supplied a long
felt want. He had used to feel, particularly before the constitution was changed
and when he had been personally as much
responsible for legislation as the members
of the executive committee, that he was
at a loss because of the lack of some legal
man around the House to whom all the
members would have a right to go to get
their ideas put in proper legislative form.
But before entering upon any remarks,
Mr. Eakin felt that he should compliment
the hon. leader upon the speech he had
made that day. Mr. Eakin had heard
speeches by the renowned men in other
Assemblies and Parliaments: and he had
never heard a more lucid explanation of
any position than Mr. Haultain had given
that day, - a statement and a speech which
would have been creditable in any Parliament in Canada. If in time Mr. Haul- tain
decided so choose a different or a
large sphere, Mr. Eakin had no doubt
that he would be found fitted for spheres
even more exalted than the one he now
occupied. Respecting Mr. Peterson had
brought order out of chaos in the brand
matter, and had been able to put the system on an orderly and businesslike basis.
Perhaps the Government had been a little
premature in changing the system, or had
not given themselves long enough time to
bring about the change; but it was easier
to tear than to mend a hole. If the
House had taken more time in putting
through the mass of legislation passed
last year, there might be less time required this year considering these laws.
But no doubt many mistakes would have
been avoided if they had had a
deputy Attorney General. On the
Yukon question he held that the
Government was perfectly excusable, considering all the circumstances, in not having
made up its mind
in time to take the House into its confidence last year. The right action had at
all events been taken. There was no
possibility of preventing liquor going into
the Yukon. If prohibition had been attempted, high wines and spirits danger- out to
health and life would have been
smuggled in. He would have censured
the Government if action had not been
taken to regulate the traffic. From the
moral point of view their course was commendable. The N.W.M. Police could
carry out regulations, but could not make
regulations. Mr. Eakin did not want
Me. Mowat to leave the country without
full credit for the school bill he had introduced; but he had learned before he
ever came to Regina; that Mr. Moway was
only a sort of godfather to the bill, which
had been largely compiled by a legal gentleman in the House.
Mr. Eakin cheerfully accepted the denial. In any eveny very important principles of the school
law had been changed
since Mr. Mowat's bill came down, and
for the changes the Government and other
members were responsible. All the members were entitled to some credit for the
legislation on the statute books. Up to
last year ever member was responsible
for legislation. Formerly there were 29
equally responsible legislators. All had
the privilege and the duty, equally with
the Government, to bring in bills. Within the one year since full responsible
government came in vogue, there had
been two sessions; and in these sessions
the Government had shown a spirit of
commendable progress. They were to be
congratulated upon their ideas of development; and upon the modification and
simplification of the laws, so that he who
ran might read. The educational progress was gratifying and was the direct
result of the new system of grants. This
year only 18 per cent, of lowest grade
teachers were in the service. The old
system paid by standards, not by grades.
Under the present system trustees could
engage 2nd class teachers at no greater
cost to the district than 3rd class;
and they thus got better eduction.
The country schools especially required
well qualified teachers, because in the
country schools one teacher had to handle
all the standards. Mr. Eakin did not
wholly approve the present system of
public works administration in all its
bearings. The district engineers' work
was not altogether a success. In this
sparsely settled country, with people
living so far apart, it was sometimes
impossible to get tender and contract
work done reasonably. He had two cases
in mind. Only two men tendered, and
their figured were far above the engineer's
estimate. The reasonable belief was that
the contractors had made a combination.
Then again the district engineers had such
extensive districts that they could not
pay full attention to all parts. The
system needed some change. Where the
Statute Labour Overseer was a good man,
would it not be possible to employ him?
Mr. Eakin warmly approved of day labor
in preference to tenders. In view of the
failure to print the Consolidated Ordinances this year, it was unfortunate that
more copies of last year's Ordinances were
not obtained for distribution. Inability
to procure printed copies of the law had
caused some dissatisfaction. If the Brand
Ordinance had been put in the hands of
the people much anxiety would have been
relived. He regretted Mr. Mowat's
allusion to the Public Works deputy. His
own impression was that, judging by his
ability and the value of his work, Mr.
Dennis was the most ill-paid man in the
service. Mr. Dennis was one who did
not spare himself; his illness last summer
had been directly due to overwork. Mr.
Mowat's insinuation about the $900 he
absolutely refused to believe, although he
had no information about the matter.
But if his ability to judge character was
any good at all, he knew that Mr. Dennis
was not a man who would do such a thing.
He approved the plan to encourage
improved stock breeding, but wanted to
know how the plan was to be carried out.
Would the money be divided between
districts? or would every man who applied
be attended to until the money was
exhausted? If so, one wide-awake section might derive the whole benefit. He
was not much in favor of the experimental work policy. The Dominion had
undertaken that work, and Prof. Robertson said they were going to carry on on
the very lines here proposed. He had
not implicit faith in experiments. The
experimenters once found a better wheat
than Red Fyfe, but he noticed that both
for output and price Red Fyfe was still
king. A few years ago Brome grass was
found to be the great thing, but this year
Mr. McKay told him it had been a failure. Except for a few kinds of grains
and grasses, he feared the small sum voted
would not be of much use; and to-day
we had heard that money was not likely
to be plentiful in the immediate future.
He questioned the wisdom of going in for
a scheme which they might be unable to
follow up. The most important question
of the day was the position of the Territories. All other considerations amounted
to little in comparison with the matter
of looking forward to provincial status.
He believed that the present subsidy was
spent to the very best advantage, and
believed that the people were well satisfied with the present simple form of
government. Until they could see a
substantial advantage in a change, they
would not favor it. Mr. Eakin thought
it was too early for the change. The
whole question should be maturely considered. Four years from now it might
be submitted to the people. He admitted that Mr. Haultain's argument respecting the
necessities of the schools was
very strong. The rungs of the ladder
planted in the common schools should
lead the child who wished to climb up to
the university. If the alternative was to
lessen the school grants or go in for provincial establishment, there would be no
room for choice. But they should first ask
the Dominion to give all the Territories
are entitled to, and remain as we were as
long as possible. Of course, if the Dominion would hand over the lands and
minerals, even though much of them had
been squandered on corporations, he
would say, Go in for provincial establishment right now. However, the advantages and
disadvantages would have to be
fully discussed before the step could be
taken.
DR. PATRICK (YORKTON)
spoke as a comparatively new member.
He had read that great latitude was
allowed on the motion to go into
supply. but confessed that he had
had no idea of the length to which
members might go. He was satisfied with the civil service policy of
the Government—with the manner of appointment, and with the plan of paying
good salaries to good men. The Rt. Hon.
Joseph Chamberlain had explained the
reason of the better management of
public institutions in Great Britain than
in the United States, by the statement
that in Great Britain it was the policy to
employ technical men for technical work
and when the best available man was
secured, he was paid whatever salary was
necessary to retain him. It appeared to
Dr. Patrick that the North-West Government had adopted this wise policy. Their
head in the Education branch was a man
of unquestioned reputation, whose mere
presence in the Territories drew attention
to the country. His salary was not any
too large for a man of his standing. If it
was an evil thing to pay the official a
higher salary than was paid the political
head, there was a remedy to be found in
a different direction than suggested by Mr.
Mowat. He had been himself very
favorably impressed by the courteous,
careful and complete replies received
from the department over which Mr.
Dennis was placed, a department which
handled an immense volume of business
connected with statute labor and other
public works. He understood the department had been bringing up also arrears of
work, and he had no difficulty in believing that the illness from which Mr.
Dennis suffered was the result of over
work; his illness had been a loss, and the
Government would likely have heard him
(Dr. Patrick) growling only that he knew
Mr. Dennis was ill. Mr. Mowat admitted
his believe that Mr. Dennis earned the
salary; it followed that there must be
work for him to do. If there was not
work he could not earn his salary.
It followed again that if the
salary was not paid the work would be
left undone. Mr. Peterson, the Agriculture deputy, was a new man, not a
native Canadian, but a Dane. Such being
the case, it was patent that no family
" pull " or influence gave him the position. He must have gained the position
by some reason existing in himself. It
spoke well for a foreigner that he was
able to rise in this way by his own worth.
He had been sizing up Mr. Peterson and
was very favorably impressed. He noticed since Mr. Peterson's entry into the
office an improvement in the brands
business; his communications were business like. He found also that Mr. Peterson had
very extensive knowledge of
agriculture. It was not easy to get business training and the knowledge of
agriculture together. The House, proceeded Dr. Patrick, had been told by
the leader in his very clear statement
that the Territories were verging upon
provincial establishment, that the time
would soon come when the revenue derived under the present system would
prove insufficient for the requirements.
It was certain that money could not be
paid out if it did not come in. The
possibilities of the widow's erase had no
application in these days so far as governments were concerned. The sources
of revenue were local and federal. Besides what came from Parliament, there
were only the fees from licenses and
other odd fees. Then there was the
plan of direct taxation. The license
fees would not increase relatively to the
expenditure. Taxation would be a fertile source of revenue if all the lands
were available; but it would be unfair
to tax the small landlords while the corporation landowners were able to evade
the tax. Again, there was the plan of
borrowing money. While he would oppose any reckless borrowing, yet he
could see a justification in borrowing
against the day when all these lands
would be available for taxation. Practically we had to look for revenue to Dominion
grant or subsidy, or to borrowing.
He inferred that Mr. Haultain believed
that under provincial establishement out
subsidy would be greater than we can
expect Parliament to grant under present conditions. He would be sorry to
see the day of reckless borrowing, and
the longer that they day was put off
the better. The population was very
small yet to be given the borrowing
power; and too large a proportion were
squatters or men with grazing leases who
had no absolute permanent stake and
might move away. Manitoba was placed
under debt - he was not saying whether
wisely or not - by men who are not now in
the province. Joseph Martin was an instance; he was gone from the province, but
the debt remained. Aside from the advisability of going into debt, it was not good
public policy to place unrestricted borrowing power even indirectly in the reach of
a people many of whom have not definite
ly decided to make their home in the
country. When the time comes for establishment there might be a suggestion that
a more equitable division of the original
Hudson's Bay Co.'s territory would have
to be made. If there had to be further
division the eastern territory would prefer to have two provinces made of the
Territories than be forced to go into
Manitoba. There was this point in favor
of such a proposition: Every province
received a certain subsidy for the support of
government and legislature. Two provinces would receive for these purposed
twice as much as one province, but of
course there would be some additional expense borne by Canada. One province
would undoubtedly best serve the interests of the North-West Territories for all
time to come. Before any serious endeavor for establishment, every means, short
of that, to get the necessary revenue
should have been exhausted. Dr. Patrick
wanted a clearer statement from the
Premier as to the exercise of the borrowing power which provincial establishment
would bring. Would he advocate having
any limitation placed on the borrowing
power?
thought the hon. member from Macleod deserved the congratulations of the House
and country for his clear budget statement. There was also another member
in the Government upon whose presence
there the House also had reason to congratulate itself.- that was the hon. member
for Moose Jaw. He was an experienced member; he had grown up with
the Assembly; he had proved to be a
man of practical ability well worthy of his
position, and had carried on the affairs of
his important departments to the satisfaction of the Assembly and the people of the
country. Of the illness of the most
capable deputy head of the Public Works department, Mr. Meyers had
heard with regret. There was no doubt
that the illness was caused by overwork,
and he was very glad that Mr. Dennis was
again able to give the country the benefit
of his very valuable services. Mr. Meyers
believed in the principle of securing good
men and paying them well. He did
not think that Mr. Dennis was receiving
an adequate salary. The salary asked to
be voted to Mr. Peterson was not large.
From all he had seen of the Agricultural
deputy he believed he was a very satisfactory man. The general policy of the
Government had been already well discussed, and as he had little to find fault
with and few new points to suggest, he
would not take up the time of the House.
MR. MCDONALD (FT. QU'APPELE)
said that one of the interesting topics
during the past year and a half had been
whether the enlarged powers had been
used to advantage, and in relation to the
Government and members of the Legislature the question would shortly be
answered by the people. The leader had
aptly pointed to the statutes for the policy
of the Government. It was by the Ordinances that the Assembly met the requirements
of the country. The statute labor
law was a good sample, which furnished
the most economical means ever exposed
in any country of doing road improvements. The Village law, the Municipal
law, the School law and others could be
pointed to as embodying policy, -very
expedient and advisable policy. As conditions changed and the country developed, the
laws were changed from time to
time to meet new conditions. Although
the House was not voting full. Estimates,
and for that reason all the more gratifying, a new vote was asked for the promotion
of the agricultural and ranching
interests. To the smaller and isolated
stockmen the scheme of assistance would
prove particularly beneficial, He believed
the idea underlying the scheme was correct. Some years ago Canadian cattle
commanded the highest price in Engladn,
but of late years, although exportation,
particularly from the North-West, was
increasing, the quality had fallen to second
places. He was gratified also with the
proposal to initiate agricultural experiments. The only criticism of the plan
was that it was not large enough. He
believed himself there would be ground
for criticism if the vote was not increased
in succeeding years. He believed the
settlers of the country would appreciate
this work. The cost of experiments
ought to borne by the Government. To
depend on philanthropy was all right if
the bill was filled; but the Government
had a duty to further the interests of the
country. Making comparison with government in Manitoba, Mr. McDonald
found that the North-West Estimates this
year just about equalled Manitoba's in
1884. With a revenue of half a million
dollars Manitoba in 1884 spent upon its
civil service $57,000. The Territorial Government spend less than half that amount.
Manitoba aided schools to the extent of
$70,000; the Territories are this year
giving $139,000, just about double. The
critics should consider some of those
points. These facts were likely to affect
the Territorial view on the question of
annexation to Manitoba. There might be
some temptations in regard to railway extensions, but there would be decided
educational and taxation disadvantages.
He had been elected on a platform of one
province for the Territories, and he
would uphold that principle.
Mr. McDonald, referring to the
new Brand law, hoped the Government
would not fall to see that men who had
made due application and remitted fees
before the change, and who had received
back neither brand nor fees, would now
be given a proper return; he would not be
satisfied until they were. He also strongly advocated the taking of steps which
would lead to the sale of certain of the
school lands without loss of time. The
lands in settled districts, as for instance
around Indian Head and QuèAppelle,
should be sold. The opening of the lands
to settlement and taxation would be of
assistance to the school and local improvement districts. In conclusion, Mr. McDonald
said that during his term in the
House he had endeavored to judge all
questions by their merits without regard
to their source. He had been elected as
an independent member, and he had in
a majority of cases been compelled to give
the Government his support because their
estimates and their legislation were in the
right direction. So long as affairs were
conducted in the same way by the
Government he would continue to support them. The work of the district
engineers had perhaps not come up to expectations, but that was a matter of detail.
The fault seemed to be a fault of
economy. There was only one engineer
where two were needed.
It was nearly 10 o'clock when the Commissioner of Public Works and
Agriculture
took the floor which he held, and held the
House interested, for almost two hours.
He said that the House recognised with
pleasure the fact that Canada as a whole
could be congratulated upon having
entered an era of almost unequalled prosperity. The Dominion had gained a
proud position, and was now taking a
foremost part in the councils of the
Empire. Canada was recognized as the
first of the colonies and everywhere were
parked evidence of prosperity. As impetus had been given to all lines and
branches of business. The manufacturing
industries were flourishing and the factory
men were enlarging and extending their
factories and operations to cope with the
improved possibilities of trade. The
importers of the Dominion were experiencing the same gratifying improvement, and
all the mercantile classes and men in
every branch of trade and business were
feeling the effects of the "growing time."
The North-West Territories were to be
congratulated as well, for the same
evidence of prosperity were to be seen
here. Agricultural conditions had never
been so flourishing and favorable; the
prospects had never been equal to present
prospects. Farm products were found to
be of enhanced value, and the returns
were generous and encouraging. The
stock raising industry was in the same
favorable condition. The value of cattle
was high, and there had been nothing to
interfere with a good calf crop. Even the
Assembly which was not usually directly
affected by the fluctuations of trade, commerce or agriculture, found itself in a
flourishing state financially, according to
the budget brought down by his colleague
the hon. member for Macleod. The
House had good reason to be proud of a
leader who could make so lucid a statement and so able an exposition of the affairs
of the country as the member
for Macleod had done that morning. It
was satisfactory to the members, and he
felt sure that it would be satisfactory to
the people of the country when they
read it. But the country would be more
satisfied with it if they could have heard
it. The country might be assured that
the colleagues of the hon. leader of the
Government fairly hugged themselves
with satisfaction every time he took the
floor and proved anew his ability to deal
with force and intelligence with the
affairs of the Territories. Some cries
were heard outside about silent members,
about lack of criticism, about one man
power, and about the undue power of
the Government. He did not know
whether those cries were worth denying.
As a matter of fact, that Assembly was
not a silent Assembly. The members of
the House might not blot on every opportune and inopportune occasion, but it
was a House in which was heard, and
heard frequently, in fact, continually,
intelligent discussion and criticism of
legislation and of administration. He
could say this as a member who had been
in the Assembly or the North-West
Council for a continuous period of fifteen
years, and who had been regularly in
his place in the House for seventeen consecutive sessions. To the members as
much as to the Government was due the
credit for whatever was good in the legislation and statutes, and as a member of
the Government he was pleased to acknowledge the fact that the memberss of
the House had at all times shown a desire and a willingness to give suggestions
and to lend the benefit of their best advice towards the improvement of legislation
and in the interest of the common
cause of the Territories. In every
Council and in every Assembly to which
he had belonged, during 15 years and
throughout 17 sessions, he could bear testimony to the fact that at all times and
on every occasion the members as a whole
had bent their energies and their abilities
-and that there were good abilities was
amply attested by the character of the
laws and the excellence of the institutions thought out, framed and formed- in the
best interests of the Territories.
Turning to the Estimates Mr. Ross said
that the hon. leader had gone so thoroughly and clearly into them, that he would
not take up the time of the House in
going over the same ground.
THE PUBLIC WORKS.
Mr. Mowat had complained that the
expenses of the public works department
had increased. It could not be gainsaid.
There were more officials in the department than formerly. It fact there had
been no such thing as a public works
department until this Government organised it last year. Before that a member
of the Executive Committee had in a certain way looked after the expenditure
upon public works, and each member of
the House had been a member of a public works committee, and did according
to his own sweet will with the moneys
apportioned to his district. The necessity
of changing the system and organising a
department was recognised. He did
not know but that the organization had
been accomplished just about as soon as
was advisable. At any rate it was decided to organised a department, and to
himself was entrusted the duty. He
first looked around fro a technical officer.
He did not pretend himself to know particularly anything about the technical part.
After looking around he discovered in
Mr. Dennis one whom he thought was
the right man and he believed he had not
been mistaken. Mr. Dennis was well
equipped with a general knowledge of
this country, gained in connection with
the Surveys branch of the Interior Department; he had visited every portion of
the Territories, and he (Mr. Ross) did not
believe there was any other man in
Canada who had as thorough knowledge
of the Territories as Mr. Dennis. The
Government had found him simply invaluable. He was thoroughly well
equipped, too, in other ways. Personally
he had received an incalculable amount
of assistance from Mr. Dennis. When
petitions came in for works in any part,
Mr. Dennis would be found to have
knowledge of the very locality, and
was able to give sound opinions,
altogether apart from his office
duties Mr. Mowat had condemned the
high salary. Mr. Ross believed that a
good man should be paid a good salary.
Poorly paid work was not likely to be
well done. He did not consider that Mr.
Dennis was receiving the salary which he
deserved. He considered that the Territories and the Government were very
fortunate in securing Mr. Denis. The
Interior Department had been extremely
anxious to retain him, going to the length
of offering to increase his salary. The
Minister of the Interior had bery kindly
lent Mr. Dennis to the North-West
Government for a time to give them the
benefit of his experience and ideas in the
organisation of the department, but the
Minister had been very desirous to retain
him in the Irrigation branch, and even
after Mr. Dennis decided to come to the
North-West Government the Minister
desired him to keep control of the Irrigation branch and paid him $900 a year for
directing that service. Mr. Ross said he
had exercised all this ingenuity to advance
arguments to induce Mr. Dennis to
become deputy commissioner of public
works, and he was pleased and satisfied
that he had induced him to come. In
connection with the references made to
Mr. Dennis's reports favoring the Irrigation transfer. Mr. Ross said he hoped
the Mr. Mowat did not mean to insinuate
that Mr. Dennis got up the memos for
the purpose of securing more salary for
himself; if he did he was entirely wrong.
Mr. Dennis was receiving the $900 on
account of the Irrigation work before the
transfer; in that regard the change made
no difference to Mr. Dennis. The Interior Department had such confidence in
him that they were willing that he should
oversee their irrigation business after he
came to the North-West Government.
There were excellent reasons for this
Government to desire the control of the
IRRIGATION ADMINISTRATION.
Excepting to a very small extent in
British Columbia, irrigation was a subject
affecting no part of Canada but the Territories. To the Territories it was a
question of local importance. The local
Government was in close touch with the
people interested, and therefore better
calculated to manage the system from the
point of view of the people's convenience.
At Ottawa the administration was only a
side issue, and was very liable to fail to
receive the attention that it would be
given by a government more closely in
touch with the people affected. This
Government made their proposition with
a view to gain full control of the administration, They did not succeed wholly, but
had been put in the position of agents for
the Interior Department, which in reality
did give them the privilege of control and
management. The change put the North- West Government in control of water
rights. This was important to the eastern
part as well as the west apart altogether
from the question of irrigation. They
were desirous of improving the water supply throughout the country which was
one of the most important problems in
the country. The change removes the
necessity of applications for water rights
going to Ottawa a tedious and inconvenient course. Such applications may now
be made to, and can be decided upon at
Regina, much more expeditiously. The
Government took the ground that they
should have control of all matters of purely Territorial or local importance, and
would endeavor to get control of all of
these matters. In the irrigation administration they had the wedge well driven
in already, and hoped soon to gain complete control. Considerable had already
been done in the western part of the country in the way of irrigation. There are
135 ditches and canals constructed, covering a distance of 280 miles. These canals
represent a cost of at least $120,000,
and a point worthy of note was that in
connection with them neither this nor any
Government had ever been asked for a
cent's bonus. Farmers were bonused in
connection with creameries and experimental forms were established at public
cost in the interest of agriculturists, but
not a cost of public money had been
given to the people who were making the
experiment of applying water on the arid
lands in the Territories. He thought
that great credit was due the men
who were showing the pluck to take
the risks of this new departure
in Canada, and hoped that before long
something might be done in their assistance. Commencing last year surveys
were being made of all the streams and
water courses between Moose Jaw and
Yorkton with a view to the development
of a scheme for reservoiring water for the
use of settlers. Returning to the public
works department, Mr. Ross said he had
secured a deputy commissioner and an
organised department was the result.
Dr. Patrick was perfectly right in his
remark about the very great amount
work done in the department, and about
there being arrears of work to cope with.
The arrears were not the fault of anyone.
There had been no department before to
attend to the work. He gave some
statistics to show the amount of work
done. For instance within the year the
department had received 8000 and had
sent out 10,990 letters, and average of 48
per day. Then there were 6000 circulars
sent out. The communications altogether
averaged 62 per day. Fyles were made
to the number of 2735. Previously there
had been no fyles, and no records kept.
It was a common occurrence for the
deputy to come to him saying I've found
another bridge this morning, or I've just
located another dam. By and by, he
supposed, the department would get hold
of all the public property; up to date they
were constantly finding works of which
there had been no record kept. There
had been 387 road surveys made and not
properly recorded; this involved a very
large amount of work. The plans had
been in possession of the members, or
the engineers. Some were mislaid;
some where lost, which was a serious
matter. The work had cost
about $20,000. What constituted
valuable property had been left
in scattered hands, and no index or
record kept. Another feature of the loss
was that some of the surveys had involved the acquirement of lands, where there
had to be deviating surveys. Usually the
possession had been given for a nominal
consideration, sometimes for a dollar,
sometimes for no consideration. But
now in many cases it is found that the
person who have possession is dead or
removed, and the new people are not
willing to renew the arrangement. It
was impossible to estimate the loss caused by failure to find the plans and records
in such cases
SOME OF THE DETAILS.
The department had made 420 survey
plans for public works, in addition to
425 special surveys; had awarded 370 contracts; had received 127 applications reopening
highways; and 57 applications
re the closing of public highways. The
western members would be able to appreciate the difficulties in the latter applications.
The regular survey system
did not well fit the foothill country, where
straight roads were not possible. In these
questions particularly Mr. Dennis was
invaluable. Within the past few months
a great many knotty questions had been
straightened out. The items of the Estimates, main and supplementary, this
year totalled 871 separate works. The
correspondence over these alone was no
little matter. There had been handled
since 1896, no less than 1,300 items of
work, involving an expenditure of $318,000. The House would realize that there
must be considerable work associated
with that amount of expenditure, a great
deal of which was upon small works.
There had been the examination and passing of 3,500 accounts, and the posting,
etc. $2,078 had been received in revenue,
which had to be accounted for and attended to. If the expenses of the administration
were increasing there was some
return from it. This $2,078 would be
augmented by about $1000 by tthe end
of the year. The departmetn had, and
was directing the operation of, 23 road
graders and 24 well boring machines.
The numbers of the machines were recorded; the department would not lose
track of these machines, and no machine
would be lost in the future as had once
occurred in the past. There were 28
coal mines in the Territories, the inspection of which the department was carrying
out. The steam boilers inspection
had involved the sending out and the
receipt of a large number of application
forms. He came now to Statute Labor,
a very important branch of the department's work. There were 358 districts
organized, with 58 in process, making 416
districts to be in operation next year.
The returns from each separate district
had to be audited, and the department
had to prepare such forms and send out
such instructions as to enable intelligent
work to be done. These details would
give some idea of the work of the department.
THE POLICY OF THE DEPARTMENT.
The policy of the department was to,
as far as possible, elect permanent public
works. Whenever feasible, they were
putting up steel instead of wooden
bridges. At the present low price of steel,
a bridge of steel placed on piles could be
built for $700 which if made of wood
would cost $600. Wooden structures
would necessitate continual large votes
for repairs. They hoped later to be able
to use cement for foundations, so that
their bridges would stand for at least 40
years with a renewal of floors. In making distribution of the public works fund
the Government kept the whole Territories in view. The district expenditure
had been cast aside. It would do Mr.
Mowat no good if he were able to pick
out what each district got. Expenditures
were not made because of the pressure
of the members, although that was certainly a factor, and the members were
able to give valuable information and advice. But other considerations were
given weight. They had the reports of
their engineers, and they had their own
information and ideas about the respective requirements, to guide the expenditure.
It was impossible yet to absolutely
follow the rules of spending the money
where it would be of greater value, because there were certain requirements in
every position which had met; but
it was the aim of the department to
expend the money only on works of first
importance in the different portions of the
country. The electoral districts were not
considered at all in the distribution. The
great divisions, however, were considered.
In the west bridges were required, whic
they were endeavoring to provide. In
the east - the grain growing area - good
roads were the requirement, so that
farmers might haul large loads and lessen
the cost of conveying their grain to market; so in the east the department
devoted attention to main highways and
trails. They endeavored to encourage
the Statute Labor districts to undertake
the small works, by spending a certain
amount of money in them. They had
expended $10,600 through the district
Overseers. From last year's returns,
when there were 99 districts in operation,
it was found that 8,470 days' work was
done; 350 miles of road was made; 250
miles of fireguard; 16 bridges were built;
five dame built; four dams repaired; 47
culverts made. This year he had reason
to believe that fully 1,000 miles of road
was made; 600 miles of fireguard; 30 or
40 bridges, probably considerably more;
about 100 culverts and 15 or 20
dames; 25,000 days' work was done, worth
$37,000. This was good development.
Regarding this inspection of public works,
he intended to arrange to lessen the cost.
The member for Salcoats had referred to
the district engineer lacking time to attend to all the work. That was true. He
had not felt justified in enlarging the
staff, but hoped to work out a better policy for the inspection of small works. He
had managed local inspection of $10,000
worth of small works done this year
through the Statute Labor districts. The
plan answered well. It put the department in closer touch with the Overseer,
who became interested in the work and
did his best. The department had this
year constructed $200,00 worth of works.
Works to the value of $50,000 had not
required inspection, leaving $150,000
worth of work to be inspected. The cost
of inspection was $6,000 - really only $5,000 for $1,000 had gone into bridges. So
the inspection after all amounted to only
4 per cent. He thought that was not an
unreasonable cost, and could not help
thinking that a mistaken impression existed regarding the inspection. But he
hoped to do better still. As to the policy
of giving contracts by tender,-he knew
of an instance where two men put up a job.
There was always liability of such occurring; but he could tell the House that
day labor was not without its possibilities
of collusion either. The department had
to contend with these difficulties. This
year a large amount of work had been
done by day labor; it had been difficult
in many cases to get work done at all.
The times were so prosperous and men
were engaged in other ways; contractors
wouldn't tender on the small works done
by the Government, and the department
had had to fall back on day labor. Or
where the tenders received were considered insatisfactory, they would not award
the contract, but have the work done by
day labor. The works for which money
was voted last year were all either completed or well under way,-every piece of
work. In no year had so much proportionately been done of the work voted
for. The items provided for in the supplementaries would be proceeded with as
fast as possible. The Government had
no intention of holding any of the work
back as an election dodge; they would be
careful in every particular piece of work,
and if it was found possible to complete
it, ti would be completed this yar. He
was certain that 90 per cent. of
all the work appropriated for in
the 16 months would be completed within
the time, and even hoped that 100 per
cent. would be completed. In dealing
with all their work and all their patronage the Government acted in a manner to
merit the confidence of the people. The
Public Works, together with the Agriculture department, was the largest spending
department. The Education department
paid out large sums, but it was all paid
under Ordinance. It was the greatest departments should be managed on business
principles, and they had adopted and
strictly adhered to business principles. In
consequence they could go before the
electors and claim that there could not be
a shadow of ground for charges of favoritism against the Government/ A strong
plank in the Government's policy was
that Dominion party lines should not be
recognised in that House. It would be
useless to expect that people to believe
that the Government was sincere in that
stand, if they say that men could come to
the Government and because they were
Grits or because they were Tories could
obtain work or obtain favors from the
Government. If the party lines were ever
drawn it would be largely on account of
the use made by the Government of the
patronage at its disposal, and because the
people had come to believe that men could
get favors from the Government because of
their particular stripe. He would
DEFY ANY MAN
in the House or in the country to show
that in any work done by this Government any favoritism was shown in the
letting of the contract or in any way. So
far as concerned local patronage, and there
was considerable at the capital - and for
his part he believed that the capital would
remain in the same place for a long time
to come - he had adopted this principle:
If there were two or three men in the line
of business, his instructions were to
buy from them alternately, to make an
equal division. That was fair and proper. Every citizen who was helping to
build up town and country had a right
to the patronage in equal measure.
SOME OF THE VOTES.
In the items the House would see one
of $1,000 for repairs to furniture and
buildings, and for new furniture for some
of the public offices. They contended
that the Ottawa Government was under
the duty to supply the necessary buildings
and furnishings for this local Government.
He had applied to the Minister of Public
Works at Ottawa for certain improvements, but the application was not heeded; and
the local department had been
compelled to carry out the improvements.
But he was glad to say that the Ottawa
authority had since recognised the claim,
and although this $1,000 appeared in the
Estimates, in reality $886 of the amount
had already been repaid by Ottawa.
There was $100 to be voted for inspection
of coal mines. If their Ordinance was to
be of any avail proper inspection of the
mines must be made. They had provided
for two inspections in the past year
and had secured for inspector a man who
was very well qualified. Upon the benefit to be derived from the item for a Territorial
map, he would not enlarge.
some comment had been made upon the
item for a Speaker's chair. In all legislatures it was usual at the end of the term
for the Speaker to take home the chair
and the gown, and Mr. Ross trusted that
the House would not deny their Speaker
this privilege. Mr. Speaker had filled
the responsible and important position to
the satisfaction of the House, and was
well entitled to the chair to be handed
down as an heirloom in his family.
(Laughter.) $1000 was providced for
Steam Boiler inspection. The House had
adopted legislation this session dealing
with the matter, from which it was expected the service would more than repay
its cost. There was the item to pay one- third of the bonus to a grist mill owner
whose mill had been burned; this was
not really paying out public money, because the Government had derived the
money from insurance on the mill.
There was an item of $2,000 for the substructure of a bridge over the Kooteney
river. Southern Alberta required and
should have large improvements in the
way of bridges. The country was traversed by swift and dangerous streams.
There had been many drownings. The
Dominion authority should have bridged
those streams. Some of the work was
beyond the present power of the Territories. He was endeavoring to get the
Government at Ottawa to make provision
for bridging the Belly river, and hoped
the Dominion would recognize the necessity. The Territories were assisting to
bridge the Kootenay river; the bridge would
be a steel structure and in every way a
credit to the department. Provision was
made for a dam over the Qu'Appelle river
at Katepwe. There had been two dams
in that neighborhood. One had gone out,
and had left land drying up which was
a menace to health. A survey had been
made by Mr. Child, who reported that
one dam at Katepwe would be better than
the two. They would put in a dam which
he hoped would stand for several years.
Respecting items for ferries, Mr. Ross
said it was the policy of the Government
to acquire the ferries and cheapen the fees.
The barriers against settlers who had to
cross rivers should be made as light as
possible. If the Government had the
money the rivers ought to be bridged, but
in many cases that was out of the
question, and they were in duty bound to
make the hardships attending the
crossing of these rivers as light as possible. While the expenditure upon the
ferries was shown, there was also revenues from them which would not appear
until the receipts of next year, Another
$1,000 was asked for well-boring. While
the operation of the well-borers had this
year been fairly satisfactory with
which they had to deal. It was simply
impossible to estimate any approximate
result from any given expenditure.
For a time things would proceed
well, then a piece of territory
would be struck yielding nothing but disappointment. The deep borers
were very expensive. After sinking a
certain distance the cost increased very
largely. To bore a foot at a depth of 150
feet cost very much more than at 50 feet
depth. He hoped still to do much better in
the operation of this branch. He was
giving the subject his very best attention,
believing that it was one of the questions
most important to the people that they
should have supplies of good spring water.
THE PEACE RIVER ROAD.
The opening of the road to
Peace River had been criticized. The
road had been dubbed "the Yukon route."
He could say that this Government never
had any idea of building a road or any
part of a road to Yukon. The road was a
road to Peace River, for the benefit of
of and for the opening up of the Peace
River country. It was by no means a
new subject. As far back as 1884 Mr.
Oliver in the North-West Council had
made out a strong case for the opening of
the road, asking an appropriation of $2,000.
The Council had been unable to undertake the work; but they "resoluted."
The usual fate attended their resoluting,
and nothing was done. Later on further
efforts were made, but the Assembly was
always prevented by lack of funds from
doing anything. Last year upon very
strong representations made by the members for Edmonton, Victoria and St. Albert
the Government decided to undertake
the work, and when the House at last
session was asked for a vote for the purpose, the proposition was supported al- mos
unanimously, one member (Mr.
Bannerman) going so far as to express his
willingness to forego all works in
his own district in favor of
the Peace River road; although
he (Mr. Ross) had been obliged to remark
then that Mr. Bannerman did still want
a few things done in his district. (Laughter.) The Government had the route explored,
and last fall went on opening it
up. They met more difficulties than
had been expected. The common idea
was that the country north of Edmonton
was bluffy; but for a distance of 200
miles the road ran through solid bush i
which no open space was found as large
as the area of the town of Regina. It
was solid timber,-heavy spruce. There
was 27 miles width of the best spruce
he had ever seen, the trees standing
from 60 to 80 feet without a limb. In
other portions there was cottonwood and
poplar. Having put their shoulder to
the wheel, having commenced the work,
the Government decided to complete it,
and depend upon the House to sustain the
action and the additional cost. He had
no fears but that the House would support the expenditure when he informed
them of the benefits which had already
accrued. The opening of a road to Peace
River have the people of the Territories
an opportunity to do the trading of and
sell the supplies to both
the Findlay river country and the Omenica country in Northern British Columbia.
It also enabled prospectors to go to the
Nelson and Liard country, and enabled
the Territories to tap the trade of all
those areas. At Slave Lake there were
700 people; there was a Roman Catholic
mission and all the institutions which
prevail in other communities, including
schools, churches, etc. The people at
Peace River sustained a cost of $300 a
month for mail service, which showed
that it was a district of no mean importance.
(To be concluded next week.)
THE LEADER, THURSDAY EVENING, OCTOBER 6, 1898.
1
THE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
ITS DUTIES. SCOPE AND IMPORTANCE DEMONSTRATED BY THE
COMMISSIONER OF AGRICULTURE.
Conclusion of the Budget Debate Report- Explanation of the
Schemes for Assisting the Agricultural and Stock Interests- Mr. Ross Hotly Resented
the Insinuations of Favoritism Made
by Mr. Mowat- Speech of the Leader of the Opposition- Mr.
Mitchell Termed the Government's Policy a John Bull Policy- Mr. Haultain Would Not
Accept Provincial Establishment
With Any Less Powers Than the Provinces Posses.
(Continued from last issue.)
THE LEADER'S Budget debate report
(N.W.T. Legislature, 13th Sept., 1898)
broke off last week in the middle of the
speech of the Commissioner of Public
Works and Agriculture.
had detailed the reasons which impelled
the Government to undertake the opening of the Peace Rive rroad, and explained the
work done on the road. He then
proceeded to show some of the benefits
reaped from the Government's action and
policy in that connection, as follows:-
He had taken the trouble to
ascertain as nearly as possible the exact
results in trade at Calgary and Edmonton
accruing from the opening of the road.
This Government could not be held
responsible if there had been people
foolish enough to think they could go to
Yukon by that route. From the President of the Board of Trade at Edmonton
he learned that the trade of that town
from 1st Sept. 1897 to 1st Sept. 1898
amounted to one and one quarter millions
of dollars; the trade of the town had
increased 50 per cent. over the former
year, and one half of the increase was
due to the Yukon trade. That was to say
the trade of Edmonton had increased by
$675,000, and the opening of the road to
Peace River led to $337,000 of th increase. That fact in itself was ample
justification for the expenditure. From
Mr. Morris, of Calgary, a banker and a
reliable authority, he learned that the
northern trade resulted in the sale of
horses to the value of $40,000 and in
general business in supplies to the extent of $100,000 at Calgary. Many
parts of the Territories could give like experiences. The districts of Indian Head
and Regina he knew had sold horses and
oxen and dogs for the northern trade.
Even if no Yukon existed it was right
and proper for the Government to take
hold and develop a portion of the Territories having such possibilities as the
Peace River country. If the Assembly
and Government did their duty, they
would not have to pass resolutions in the
House to save their territory, but the
people in all portions would pass the
resolutions and show their desire to remain as a part of the Territories.
(Applause.)
THE AGRICULTURE DEPARTMENT.
The House at last session had made
provision for a department of agriculture,
but no estimate was made for the engagement of a deputy. When the department
was organized the Clerk of the Council,
Mr. Reid, took charge of it. Mr. Reid's
time, however, was so fully taken up with
other duties that, even working night and
day for weeks and months, as he had done,
he could not attend to the duties, particularly when the brands registration business
had to be taken hold of. Mr. Ross
said he wished now that they had allowed
longer time in which to effect the change
in the brands system; a longer time
would have saved himself a very great
deal of trouble and worry. Mr. Reid
had tackled the work with a will, but although he worked almost without ceasing,
his many other duties prevented his proper attention to the brands business.
Mr. Ross saw that in the interests of the
department and of the people there should
be a chief clerk. As he had done in the
case of the public works, he looked around
for a suitable man, and finally selected
Mr. Peterson. This gentleman was not a
deputy head yet, but Mr. Ross hoped he
would be one in a very few days. He
ventured to say that the House would
find that in his choice of Mr. Peterson he
had been no less successful than in
the choice of Mr. Dennis. The member
for Yorkton had sized him up, and had sized
him up well. Mr. Peterson was well
equipped for the post. He was not only
a first class office man, but was a practical
agriculturist and had been an experimenter himself. He took a very deep interest in
agriculture. Mr. Peterson had
come out to this country and had farmed
in Manitoba where had had to carry water
ten miles for use on his farm; he had farmed also at Calgary where to succeed the
farmer was obliged to apply water to his
land. In connection with the brands
administration Mr. Peterson had proved
a treasure. He came in on the 1st of
May and ever since had devoted all his
time, even the time that should be his
own for recreation, to the work of the
office. Mr. Ross was glad of the occasion to express his opinion thus publicly
of Mr. Peterson; he would not have felt
like doing so had the question of Mr.
Peterson's qualifications not been raised.
He would again say that he had not the
slightest doubt but that the country
would endorse the appointment when his
work had time to be seen. After speaking of the work of the department
with the brands system, Mr. Ross said
the department was also charged with
the collection and publishing of general
statistics. Very little in that line had
yet been done, but they hoped to do something this fall. The deputy would also
be of assistance in preparing legislation
dealing with agriculture, as for instance
in relation to agricultural societies. Mr.
Mowat had accused him (Mr. Ross) of
having prepared a good scheme in this
connection. He admitted that he had
been thinking out a scheme. But there
had been no bill printed. He submitted
his views in type written for mto the
Agricultural Committee. Mr. Mowat
could scarcely be in earnest in his suggestion that his (Mr. Ross's) fears had
induced him to withdraw his proposition.
He thought no member would accuse him
of being afraid to press h is views.
The accusation had always been the other
way, - that he was too apt in pressing
his views. He had not changed his views
about the scheme proposed, but doubted
whether the time had quite come forÂ
applying it. The plan was not thoroughly
digested; he hardly thought he had all
the information required. He had placed the matter before the Agricultural
Committee to get the views of the members; he was always willing to learn.
He was going to go further, and place
the scheme before the agricultural societies of the country. He did not claim
to know everything about every subject,
and was perfectly willing to seek advice from those qualified to give it. He
hoped next year to be able to bring in
a bill dealing with the subject on the
lines of the scheme. While on that subject he might say that it was his intention
to have a section of the Agricultural
Societies Ordinance amended to enable a
society of 50 members to draw the grant.
Last year, having this scheme in view,
the House had raised the minimum
membership to 100. The object soguht
for would be reached in another way.
While the societies had undoubtedly done
an excellent work, they were
too much disposed to hold small shows.
It would be proposed to hold larger
district shows in which more than one
society might join. If nothing untoward
occurred in the uncertain meantime, the
scheme would be introduced at the first
session of the new Legislature. Other
very important subjects to which the
attention of the department of agriculture would have to be given were Noxious Weeds,
Estray Animals and the administration of the votes passed by the
Assembly for Hospitals, Charities and
Public Health. With such branches as
these, added to those regarding which he
had entered more into detail, the House
would recognize that the Department
was one of very great importance. There
was full scope for all the organisation
which they were providing. Mr. Ross was
sorry to hear anyone suggest that it was
a minor department, and preferred to
believe that Mr. Mowat thought that as
yet the size of the department and the
amount of work it could do made it a
minor one. Every member must recognise that the future of the North-West
Territories depends upon the agricultural
interests; and it did not need to be demonstrated at this date that it was possible
for a great deal of assistance to be
given agriculturists and stockraisers
through a well organised department
whose business it was to devote attention to those interests.
THE ASSISTANCE SCHEMES.
After devoting some remarks in an- answer to the hint that the agricultural policy
was invented to catch votes, Mr. Ross
said he was perfectly satisfied as to the
advisability of endeavoring to assist the
stockraisers to improve their grades. It
was evident that within the past few
years the quality of the stock had been
deteriorating. He had had an opportunity of seeing an example of what might
be done in the line of improvement.
Anyone who had been up the Manitoba
and North-Western railway and had seen
the thoroughbred stock farm at Binscarth
and the quality of cattle raised in the
district surrounding, would realise the
benefit to be derived. There was already
an arrangement in force with the railways
for reduced rates on shipments of
thoroughbreds, made at the instance of
the Department of Agriculture at Ottawa. But the fact of the arrangement
did not seem to be well understood.
One of the [?] of this department would
be to spread information of the advantages of that arrangement, and in addition, the
House was aksed to vote a sum
to give a small bonus for each head of
thoroughbred stock brought to the country. The proposition was this: The department
would receive an application
from a man who wished to import one
head of male stock; the importer would
have to make his own provision in regard
to selection and purchase, because the
Government were not going to leave
themselves open to any charge of collusion in buying animals. The bonus would
be given in such an amount that the
cost of the man of bringing the animal
to his own station would be $5, that was
to say the cost of the animal would be
precisely its cost in Ontario plus $5.
The bonuses would be so applied that
the resident in any part of the Territories could secure an animal at the same
cost as a resident in any other part.
The man would have to notify the department of his purchase in the east,
and the department would, whenever a
certain number had been purchased,
have a man to collect them, come in
charge of them, and distribute them at
stations to which they mgiht be destined.
Mr. Eakin had feared that some section
of country or some collection of individuals would get in their applications
first and scoop the whole fund and the
whole advantage. Mr. Ross did not share
the fear. In the first place every portion of the country would be given notice
at the same time, and in the second
place his fear was that for the first year
anyway the scheme would not be taken
advantage of to even the full extent of
their small vote. Before a man could
take advantage of the scheme he must
be able to pay the first cost of the
thoroughbred animal. The average
cost to the Government per animal
would be from $12.00 to $18.00
according to the locality to which the
animal was taken. If there were 100 applications in the first year it was all they
could reasonably expect. He expected
that in the time the settlers would become
able to take more advantage of the scheme
and hoped that in future years the House
might have to vote a larger sum for the
purpose. The Government's arrangements in connection with this scheme
were all but completed, and they would
be ready very shortly to receive applications as he had explained. The next
item was the one of $2,500 to initiate experimental work in the Territories.
The whole House would agree that great
advantage had accrued to those sections
of country where experimental farms had
been located. The farms were an object
lesson to all who could get to see them.
He would not claim that all the good
work done in Indian Head district was
attributable to the experimental farm
there, but no one could doubt that the
farm had greatly benefitted that district.
If the good work was to be taken full advantage of, then it had to be brought
nearer home to a greater number of farm
ers. What advantage was the Indian
Head farm to a farmer in Edmonton district? Even if he could go to see it, the
conditions on his own farm and on the
farm at Indian Head were entirely different. What advantage to Southern Alberta would
be the establishment of an
experimental farm at Prince Albert? Not
very great, certainly. Mr. Eakin said
that the experimenters had advocated
certain grains and grasses but now found
them unsuitable and unsuccessful. That
showed precisely the great value of experimental work. Was it not cheaper
for one experimenter to prove the unsuitability of a certain grain, than for a
great numbers of farmers to have to learn
the fact from their own experiences and
losses? The greatest work of an experimental farm was not in showing what
should be done, but in showing what
should not be done. The sum to be devoted to the work by this Government
was small; it was for initiatory work.
They did not expect to be able to start
experimental work everywhere at once,
but he did hope that in time this
Government would be able to do
something practical for the advancement of the interests of agriculture in this country.
It was all very
well to say that the Dominion was
doing the work and that Prof. Robertson
was doing the work. He hoped that the
Dominion would continue its good work,
and that Prof. Robertson would continue
and increase the amount of his good work;
but after all that the Dominion would or
could do, there was a great deal left to be
done, and he believed that it was time for
the local Government to commence to organise and to supplement the work done
by the Dominion. The cry thgat the
scheme was an election dodge was the
veriest buncombe. The farmers of the
country would not thank the man who
raised that cry. If the Government
might not dare to adopt any policy for the
benefit of the farmers the farmers would
be left in a poor position. If they heeded
that cry, nothing could be done near the
close of a term. The cry that the scheme
was an election dodge was the poorest
kind of argument. The department
had been in existence less than a year;
this was the first opportunity it had had
to make through the Executive Council to
the House any proposition, and he thought
it was a matter for congratulation that
upon this, the very first opportunity, the
department was able to propound, and
had propounded, a policy and a scheme to
benefit the agriculturists and ranchers of
the country. The House must have some
faith in the Government and in their proposals. When it ws found that a scheme
was unwise, then would be the time to
condemn.
THE SCHOOL DEBENTURE QUESTION.
Mr. Mowat had criticised the proposal
to pay certain school debenture indebtedness, arguing that a bad precedent would
be established. Mr. Mowat unfortunately was not aware of the conditions which
made it necessary to propose that vote.
The leader of the Government had overlooked the explanation of that item.
They did not justify the payment of the
debentures on the plea that the districts
had failed. They were not paying the
amounts to save the debenture holders.
In one of the districts affected every settler but one had left, and this unfortunate
one might be pounced upon for the
whole debt of the district. The cases
were in reality a legacy to this Government from the days when the Lieut.- Governor
conducted the business of the
Territories. In those days sufficient
caution was not observed in allowing
districts to raise money on debentures.
Such cases were not likely to occur again.
They were very careful now, and demanded evidence showing that sufficient lands
within the district were patented to form
ample security for the debt. There was
no danger of precedent. Such cases
would not occur again. The cases were
an old score, and payment was proposed
first to save the unfortunate man who
might be crushed out through no particular
fault of his own, secondly to remove the
bar against the re-settlement of lands;
with the debt hanging over them the lands
would never be settled, and thirdly in the
interest of the credit of the school districts of the Territories which it would be
unfortunate to have injured.
RESENTS BASELESS INSINUATIONS.
Mr. Mowat had renewed his complaints
and insinuations about the non printing
of the Consolidated Ordinances. Mr.
Ross thought that the House realized that
Mr. Haultain had made a full explanation
of that matter, and he had himself stated
to the House the reasons which induced
the Government to withhold the printing.
The manuscript had not been finished
when expected. He had already stated
the facts respecting the tenders. Mr.
MOwat had mistaken on one point. The
tenderer he had in mind was not the lowest; he was the lowest tenderer in the
Territories. The Government were of the
opinion that unless there was a great difference in the tenders, they would not be
justified in sending the work out of
the Territories. It could not be
conveniently done out of the Territories on account of the time which
would necessarily be taken up with the
sending of proofs. The Queen's Printer
had made a recommendation in favor of
the acceptance of the lowest Territorial
tender. Then they found that the contactor was not willing to agree to complete
the work within any certain time; the contractor gave as his reason for refusing to
agree to any time, that two years had been
spent in preparing the work . Did the
House ever hear of such an argument?
The contractor didnt seem to know
whether he could do the printing in
12 weeks, 12 months or 12 years.
While the Government were thus
negotiating with the contractor, the
Chairman of the Consolidation Commission
suggested to them by letter that it would
be well to delay the work until after a
a further session. The Government agreed
to this suggestion because they believed it was in the best interests of the
country. Any insinuation of improper
motives in relation to the contractors he
would.
HURL BACK IN THE TEETH
of the man who made it. There were no
record since the hon. member for Macleod
became entrusted with public business in
the North West Territories to show that he
had ever in any way favored one contractor against another. (Applause.) He would
tell the hon. member for South Regina
that there should be something stronger
than mere vague suspicions to warrant
such charges as he had made, and if he
were going to make such insinuations he
had better produce some evidence to bakc
them up. (Applause.) Such damaging
charges were not to go unchallenged,
and Mr. Mowat would need better
ground to asperse the character of
any member of this Government.
(Applause). Continuing, in reply to Mr.
Eakin, the Commissioner stated that the
Important Ordinances of 1897 had been
printed separately and distributed, as for
instance the Statute Labor, Brands,
Estrays, etc. but possibly they were not
distributed thoroughly enough. A mistake had been made in not printing
more copies of the Ordinance book of last
session, but the reason was that they expected to have the Consolidated Ordinances
out early in the year, which would
have superseded all other Ordinances, and
they had tried to be economical as they
always did. Mr. Mowat had also made
insinuations of favoritism towards Mr.
Maloney and his district. He (Mr.
Ross) had not looked into the estimates carefully enough to find out
how Mr. Maloney fared. He remembered having asserted last year that
the Estimates would show a fair distribution of the moneys between the great divisions
of the country. He believed a fair
analysis would show that to be the case;
and he thought the wants of all the areas
and districts had been fairly well attended to. He could only say that if Mr.
Maloney did fare as well as Mr. Mowat
thought he did, then the member for St.
Albert had not dealt very fairly by him
(Mr. Ross) in kicking as much as he had
done about the unfulfilled needs of
St. Albert. It was perfectly natural for
hon. members to believe that their districts were entitled to large imporvements,
but his duty was to hold the scales equitably, and he hoped to do so as long as he
occupied the position he was in. With
the present Supplementary Estimates
they were providing for many works which
members had desired done last year, and
which there had been a right to expect
last year, only that there were no moneys
available for the purpose. Mr. Ross concluded by asserting in the hearing of all
the members who were certainly aware of
the fact or otherwise of his statement, that
none could allege that through the patronage or though the public works expenditure
the Government had ever or on
any occasion endeavored to influence any
member of that House. (Prolonged
applause.)
the hon. leader of the Opposition, spoke
very briefly as the hour was approaching
midnight. Dr. Brett had only arrived on
the evening train after an absence of
several days from the House, having been
called to Chicago by the illness of a relative. He regretted his inability to hear
the speech made by the hon. leader of the
Government, and ws sure that it had
been a lucid and acceptable statement.
He congratulated Mr. Ross upon the readiness of his possession of the details relating
to his departments. The House
could not help noticing the large amounts
they were voting in the Estimates before
them; it was proof of the fact that the
Territories were progressive, and that
their business was growing larger year by
year. He did not wonder that they
amounts were large for expenses of government, but it did seem that the expenses of
government as compared with the revenues were very large. He did not intend
critisise the departments. He recognised that in inaugurating a new system, the
officials would be new to their work; they
would become capable of handling more
work after practice in the offices. He endorsed the policy of selecting the best
available men for the deputy heads. As
the business of the country grew, the
responsibilities of the Government became larger. As the amounts they were
spending enlarged year by year, it became
more necessary for them to watch closely
the management and policy of the Government. Dr. Brett believed the new policy in
regard to the stock interests was in the right
direction. Mr. Ross had waxed eloquent
over an insinuation made by someone that
the scheme was for an eleciton purpose.
Dr. Brett hope that if the scheme did
no good in the election, that it might do
no harm anyway. The amount appropriated ws less than would be justifiable.
THere was one policy which the members
of the Government had not seemed anxious to explain,- that was the policy they
had indulged in of ignoring the Assembly
in certain matters. His reference was to
the Yukon administration. They had
made their regulations and sent an expedition without obtaining the sanction of
the House.Their action involved a great
principle, the principle of license or prohibition. They had established a license
system without sanction. Before the
license system was established in the organised Territories there had been great
discussion, the Assembly had considered
the matter in all its bearings, and came to a
decision after a great deal of thought.
No Government should have taken so
great a responsibility as to institute
license in any country without full discussion and sanction of the people's
representatives. Dr. Brett opposed the
item of $1750 for paying school debentures. It seemed to him that this was
making a bad precedent. Why not sell
the lands if the speculators in the east
who advanced the money had now to be
reimbursed? It seemed to him that when
speculators made a bad investment they
had no right to come to the Assembly for
remedy. Touching upon the loss of the
Yukon territory, Dr. Brett said the fact
of the loss gave rise to a certain amount
of alarm. If it was the policy of the
Government to allow the Territories to be
disintegrated without resistance, then he
could not agree with it. The delay of
two or three years in the printing of the
public accounts was another policy he
could not agree with. The Government
had not apologised so much for these
omissions as they sought applause on account of the things they thought they had
done well. On immigration the Government had no policy, contending that the
funds were too limited, but he
thought a fully organised government
ought to be able to do something, even
were it no larger than this policy with
which they were now appealing to the
farmers, namely to spend $2,500 on experiments. The Government were willing to rely
entirely on the Dominion to
select the classes of people for settlers
in these Territories. On the whole theÂ
wants and revenues of the Territories were
growing less rapidly than the expenses
of Government. He would not say that
these expenses were increasing too rapidly, but they were certainly becoming
proportionally very great. Not having
heard the Premier's speech, he did not
know whether any mention had been
made of provincial rights. Some policy
in this regard should emanate from the
Government and he hoped an expected
that Mr. Haultain had dealt with the
subject.
just wished to allude to one matter which
had been omitted, relating to education.
During this year Mr. Haultain had visited the country north of Saskatoon, where
the schools had not been running satisfactorily. In regard to these half breed
schools there was great difficulty in securing and retaining teachers, who had
been poorly paid. Many of the schools
had been closed. Mr. Haultain had
made a personal inspection, and found
that in several districts the trustees were
not able to properly attend to the business of the districts. It was suggested
that Commissioners be appointed to carry
on the business and get the schools reopened. It was very important that
some adequate provision be made for
the education of those children, so that
when they grow up they shall be able
to perform the duties of trustees. Dealing with some remarks of the member
for South Regina, Mr. Mitchellsaid that
that hon. gentleman in examining the
Estimates appeared to have a great deal
of time to spare for figuring out the
amounts for St. Albert. Mr. Mowat had
probably forgotten that the idea was done
away with of giving personally to members of the public works moneys and thus
furnishing them with "wads for voters."
But it was the Independent member's
privilege to recommend works which he
believed should be done; this idea did
not seem to please Mr. Mowat, who
changed his ground so often that it as
difficult to follow him. Mr. Mowat had
certainly paid the right side of the House
a great compliment, and had taken up a
great deal of time in mixing up his compliments and allusions to certain millstones
in the Government and certain
references to members interested in
draining and others interested in bridging. He would just say to Mr. Mowat
that he (Mr. Mitchell) had one acquirement, if no other, which was that he was
able to close his mouth in six languages,
whereas Mr. Mowat did not seem able to
do so in one tongue. Something had
been said about the policy of the Government. He would suggest that the Government's
policy deserved the name of
the John Bull policy, because it was a
policy of integrity, for transacting the
public business without fear or favour;
and he hoped this Government would
stick to that policy.
warmly commended the proposed to initiate experimental work in agriculture.
He said the farm at Indian Head was
of little use to Alberta. He trusted that
in the scheme of irrigation areas of
Southern Alberta and the great wheat
areas of Northern Alberta would
not be forgotten. Mr. Bannerman admitted that Mr. Mowat in his speech
that afternoon had had a heavy load to
carry, and had carried it well. Mr.
Mowat took umbrage at the salaries of
the officials, seeming to forget that it
was worth 25 per cent. more to live in
Regina than anywhere else. Mr. Mowat
himself had com to see this and had
swapped with Vancouver. Mr. Mowat
had also critisised the Peace River trail.
The House would recollect that last year
when the paltry vote of $10,000 was
proposed, he (Mr. Bannerman) suggested
that he was willing to forego any works
in his district in favor of the Yukon
road. Where was the member for South
Regina then? He sat there in his chair
as still as a frozen frog in January.
(Laughter.) Now Mr. Mowat was finding
fault because the Government did not
proceed with the Yukon business at an
earlier stage. The youth and beauty
which had overflowed the galleries of the
House that afternoon reminded Mr.
Bannerman of the fact of the total inadequacy of the Assembly chamber. It
had been his privilege to introduce a
resolution on that subject, and he had
been told that he should not have introduced the resolution because he was
afraid to name the proper place for the
location of the capital. He scorned the
baseless insinuation. How could he be
afraid? The City of Calgary was the
second city in size and importance west
of Pembroke. (Laughter.) It had a
splended system of waterworks, all modern conveniences, and two magnificent
rivers, than which there were no purer
streams in the world. Around Calgary
there were millions upon millions of the
finest agricultural lands that could be
found under the blue canopy of heaven.
(Laughter).
spoke as the representative of the French
people of the Territories. Most of the
members of the House represented a
certain number of the French element,
and all should be able to appreciate
statements he would make, and which
he personally knew to be true, respecting the French people. In asking for
the printing o the Ordinances in French
these people were asking merely for justice. The Act prescribed that the Ordinances
"shall" be so printed; the Act
did not say "may," but "shall," and it
was simply asking for justice to ask for
the printing in both languages. Mr.
Boucher referred to the visit made by the
Premier to the school districts in the
northern settlements. He trusted that
the schools which were standing closed
should soon be re-opened, and the children given the advantages of education.
He resented certain remarks of Mr. Agnew respecting the character of the
people in Batoche district. He haertily
endorsed the policy of the Government
on the question of Dominion party lines,
and wondered why Mr. Mowat had omitted any mention of Batoche district.
The Estimates, he was glad to see, made
provision for some very much needed
roads.
rose at a quarter past twelve to close the
debate. He said there were just two
points which he desired to mention. The
first was in respect of the schools in
Batoche and surrounding districts. He
had visited that part of the country.
The schools referred to were situated
almost exclusively in half-breed settlements, and the older people had not enjoyed
the advantages which he hoped the
younger people will have. The difficulty
in connection with the schools were,
first, a deficiency in the mangement,
and secondly, the difficulty of getting
suitable teachers. The teachers must be
possessed of the two languages, as an
English teacher could make no headway
with children who could speak only
French. It was suggested to make use
of the provision for the appointment of
Commissioners to take the management
of the districts, and he hoped soon to
have in operation again the schools which
were closed, and to have the other schools
going on more satisfactorily. It was no
small thing to have large communities
of children deprived of the advantagesÂ
of education. The communities were
large and he found that there were a
great number of children, most of the
districts having from 25 to 30 children.
It was lamentable to think of these children growing up in ignorance. The department
was no being to a certain extent successful in an attempt to procure
qualified teachers able to speak French.
The other point was one raised by Dr.
Patrick in connection with provincial
status,-in regard to the position the
Government would take as to borrowing.
In his opinion it would be necessary
for the carrying on of the provincial business
in the Territories that they should have
the borrowing power. With vast undeveloped lands and other resources, it
woudl be necessary to discout the future.
The power to borrow as not bad in itself. He would be unwilling to go into
provincial establishment deprived of any
power possessed by the provinces. In the
exercise of all the powers, they would
take warning by the experiences of sister provinces, but the possession of the
borrowing power would be absolutely
essential. He did not put this
as the opinion of the Government,
but as his own opinion. Mr.
Eakin had seemed to fear precipitancy.
He (Mr. Haultain) had certainly not intended to give the impression that provincial
establishment could be arranged
in any hurry. What he had said was
that the question would have to be taken
up by the next Assembly. He quite
agreed with the view that the county
would need education on the question,Â
and it was altogether likely that the
country would be asked for an expression
of opinion when any negotiations should
have reached a certain stage. It was
quite likely that any Government in
power would wish t oget the verdict of
the people. He did not want to
jump into provincial establishment.
But it was time to think about getting
ready to negotiate; it was time to conclude that the period when negotiations
would have to be entered upon would arrive before the end of the term of the Legislature
about to be elected. Mr Haul- tain said he was well satisfied with the
line the debate had taken. The Government always expected criticism. There
would always be differences of opinion.
Referring to Mr. Mowat's withdrawal from
the House and to the attitude he had taken
in the House, the Premier said that the
hon. gentleman and himself had had
many tilts in debate, had had
many differences of opinion which had
often been expressed forcibly and to the
point; but he would say now to Mr.
Mowat and to others that however
strongly he had ever felt he believed he
could claim that he had never indulged
in personalities, and he had at least never
willingly been actuated by personal feelings of hostility in any debates or discussions
in the House. He was glad that he
could part with Mr. Mowat on perfectly
friendly terms, and with the best of wishes
for his future welfare.
The motion carried and the House resolved into Committee of Supply, passed
one item, reported progress, and the
House adjourned at 12:30 o'clock.
Cet individu a participé aux :
