FRIDAY, MARCH 25TH, 1870.
On Mr. Humphreys' motion on roads being read, the Hon. Attorney-General said :-
I regret to say that my honourable colleague, the Chief Commissioner of Lands and
Works,
is still too much indisposed to attend to his place in this House. I would, therefore,
suggest
that the Honourable Member should postpone his notice until he is present.
Hon. MR. HUMPHREYS —I have no
objection to defer it, on the understanding that it
comes up on Monday. Â
Hon. ATTORNEY-GENERAL —On Monday, or
this day, if: the Committee get through with their
other motions on Confederation.
Hon. MR. RING —I desire to introduce
a motion with regard to free port, but I do not
intend to inflict upon the House a speech. I move that His
Excellency he respectfully requested to place in the
terms a clause to restore to Victoria the system of free
port antecedent to Confederation. The Honourable
Member for New Westminster was indignant with me yesterday for not supporting his
resolution.
I only say that his proposition was hypercritieal. I
ask that we may have free port restored before
Confederation. We have now the right to legislate
for ourselves on this point. Hereafter we shall he at the
mercy of the, Canadian Parliament at Ottawa. i would
make free port one of the conditions of Confederation; but
first restore free port.
On the Clerk reading the first words of the resolution,-
Hon. DR. CARRALL —I rise to a point of order. I say that this
question has been already decided.Â
CHAIRMAN —I think the Hon Member for
Nanaimo is not out of order on that point. The
question of free port yesterdav related to free port after
Confederation. The resolution of the Hon, Member for
Nanaiino is in reference to free port antecedent to
Confederation.
Hon. MR. DECOSMOS —The Hon, Member is
surely out of order, this Committee having met to
consider Confederate resolutions.
CHAIRMAN — I rule that the Hon. Mr.
Ring is in order, as his resolution refers to the
terms of Confederation now before this Committee.
On the Hon. Mr. Ring's motion being but to vote, it was lost.
CONFEDERATION DEBATE. 151
Hon. MR. HOLBROOK —I have very great
pleasure in bringing this resolution forward with
reference to the Indian tribes.
Hon. ATTORNEY-GENERAL —I ask the
indulgence of the Hon. Member whilst I interpose a
few words. On a former occasion a very evil impression was
introduced in the Indian mind on the occasion of Sir
James Douglas' retirement. I ask the Hon. gentleman to be
cautious, for Indians do get information of what is
going on.
Hon. MR. HOLBROOK —My motion is to
ask for protection for them under the change of
Government, The Indians number four to one white man, and
they ought to be considered. They should receive
protection.
Hon. ATTORNEY GENERAL —These are the
words that do harm. I would ask the Hon. Magisterial
Member for New Westminster to consider
Hon. Mr. HOLBROOK —I say they shall
be protected. I speak of Indians of my own
neighbourhood on the Lower Fraser.
Hon. MR. ROBSON —I rise to a point of
privilege. I think that the warning of the Hon.
Attorney-General is necessary This is the sort of
discussion which does harm.
Hon. MR. HOLBROOK —I do not view it
in that way. I say that the Indians of the Lower
Fraser are intelligent, good settlers. I ask that they
receive the same protection under Confederation as
now.
Hon. MR. HOLBROOK —They have
protection in being allowed to occupy land, and they
enjoy equally with white people the protection of the law,
and I ask the House to keep them in the same
position.
Hon. ATTORNEY-GENERAL —If the Indians
had no better protectors than the Hon. Magistrate
from New Westminster, I should not envy them their
protection. The Hon. gentleman must have
forgotten the directions of the Imperial Government to His
Excellency the Governor, in Lord Granville's
despatch.
Hon. MR. ROBSON —The Hon. Mr.
Holbrook has told you that he speaks in behalf of
40,000 Indians. I speak in the name of 65,000. I am
inclined to think we should not pass this matter
over entirely; we ought to point out our desire that the
Indians should be cared for. Now, the Canadian
Indian policy has been characterized as good, even by
American statesmen. Our own policy is not worth the
name. I consider it to be a blot on the Government. I will. therefore, propose as
an
amendment the following :-
" That the Indian policy of Canada shall be extended to this Colony immediately upon
its
" admission into the Dominion, and that the necessary agencies and appliances for
an efficient
"administration of Indian affairs may be at once established."
The Canadian Government occupies the position of guardians to Indians. They are treated
as minors. There is a perfect network of Indian Agents in Canada, and through them
the
Indians are made presents of agricultural implements, seeds, and stock. Now, if we
let it
go forth to the Indians that their interests are being considered, and that this will
be greatly
to their advantage. I say, by making the Indians feel all this, there will be less
danger of
exciting any unpleasant feeling among them. We should set the Indian mind at rest
and let
them feel that Confederation will be a greater boon to thorn than to the white population.
Hon. DR. CARRALL —I rise to state my
intention of voting against the resolution and the
amendment We have the full assurance in Lord Granville's
despatch that the Indians must be protected, I do
think the Hon. gentlemen are only heaping up resolutions
trusting to overload the whole system. The Hon.
Member for New Westminster has affirmed how good the
Canadian system is. The goodness of that system is in
itself sufficient to render the resolution needless.
I shall, therefore, vote against it and the amendment,
Hon. MR HUMPHREYS —I disapprove of
what both the Hon. Members stated. These gentlemen
know nothing of the question. I will show you why. Take
away the Indians from New Westminster, Lillooet.
Lytton. Clinton, and these towns would he nowhere. I say
the Indians are not treated fairly by us, and all
they want is fair dealing from the white population. At Lillooet I was told there
were
upwards of 16,000; and $17,000 gold dust was purchased
from Indians. Take away this trade and the towns
must sink. I say, send them out to reservations and
you destroy trade; and if the Indians are driven out we
had all best go too.
152
CONFEDERATION DEBATE.
Hon. MR. ROBSON —The Hon. Member for
Lillooet says that the Canadian policy will ruin the
country and the Indians. I say. then, to be consistent, he
must move an amendment that it shall not apply. To
say that the Canadian policy will ruin the country shows
simply ignorance.
Hon. MR. ALSTON —I must support the
Hon. Member for New Westminster. I say there is no
Indian policy here, and I am sure that the Canadian policy
is good.
Hon. MR. ROBSON —I was induced to put
an amendment because there is a resolution;
otherwise I would not have interfered.
Hon. ATTORNEY-GENERAL —My esteemed
colleague the Hon. Registrar-General says we have no
Indian policy. I say our policy has been, let the Indians
alone. [
Hon Mr. Alston —" No, no!"]
Hon. MR. BARNARD —The reason I ask
for the withdrawal of the resolution is that we
cannot keep back from the Indians anything that happens
here, and it will have a bad effect.
Hon. ATTORNEY-GENERAL —As these words
may go forth, I wish to state on behalf of the
Government that the care of the Indians will be the first
care of the Imperial Government and of the Local
Government.
Hon. DR. CARRALL —I say that the
Canadian policy has caused them to grow and prosper.
I am at a loss to understand why Honourable Members should
be afraid to trust to it.
Hon. DR. HELMCKEN —The Honourable
Member for Cariboo seems to find it difficult to
understand my position. I think it right to endeavour to
get the best terms we can, and to point out
difficulties. It is the duty of every man to do so. I am
perfectly willing to sit here and make the best
terms possible. When they come back from Canada it will be
time enough for me to decide whether or not I shall
support Confederation. I am now anti-Confederate, but I
may become Confederate if the terms are good. I say
it the Indians are to he stuck on Reservations there
will be a disturbance. I think, Sir, that it will be well
that there should be some opposition. Â
Hon. MR. ROBSON —I wish to state I will withdraw my amendment if
the Honourable Member will withdraw his motion.
The amendment was withdrawn.
The resolution of the Hon. Mr. Holbrook was lost by a vote of 20 to 1.
Hon. MR. ROBSON moved that an Address
be presented to His Excellency the Governor, asking
that Canada shall cause a Geological Survey of this Colony
to be made, commencing within one year after Union.
He said that a fund of $100,000 had been set apart by the
Canadian Government for the specific object of
carrying out a systematic Geological Survey; that
sum to be spread over a period of five years. Canada had
the good fortune to possess a very efficient
Geological staff. The Red River country had received the
first year's survey under that arrangement, and
would probably receive the second this year. British
Columbia will possess a greater mineral interest
than any other Province, and a thorough Geological Survey
will be of the utmost importance to her, and
reflexly to Canada, and it was not too much to expect such
a survey to follow close upon Union.
Hon. ATTORNEY-GENERAL —I am sure no
one can have the slightest objection to support a
motion for a survey. I assure you it has not escaped the
notice of the Government, but I regard it as a
matter of certainty that British Columbia will come in for
her share. I do not object to the consideration of
the question between this Government and that of Canada,
but I do object to inserting it in the terms. I
think it may lead to the danger of the Canadian
Government saying, when other things come to be
considered: " You don't want this, it is not
mentioned in the terms; had you really required this it
would scarcely have been omitted in terms so full as
these."
Hon. MR. ROBSON —In reply, I say that
the Government has inserted a number of special
things in the terms; and with reference to the Geological
Survey, I believe Newfoundland got this very matter
inserted under the direction of Governor Musgrave.
CONFEDERATION DEBATE. 153
Hon. MR. HUMPHREYS —I rise to support
the motion. I cannot understand the opposition. [
Hon
Attorney-General—I don't oppose; divide. divide, divide]
Hon. MR. HUMPHREYS I
desire to Show the necessity for a Geological
Survey. We are now eleven years old as a Colony, and
nothing is hardly known of the country. We are
behind our neighbours of the United States. In California
there is a Geological Surveyor, who has to explore
and publish the result of his survey. We should have
something of the sort here, and, in addition, a record of
the number of available acres of land in the Colony.
If or 30 farmers arrived here I would undertake to affirm
they could not get any information from the Land
Office as to where they could settle down.
Hon. DR. HELMCKEN —I should not like
that statement to get abroad uncontradictcd. I think
these assertions should not be made; they are likely to do
much harm. I should like to see the 25 or 30 farmers
come; let them go to the mouth of the Fraser. There may be
some difficulty in getting land in any part or
locality, but it is absurd to bring up this fuss about the
Land Office.
The resolution was put to the vote and carried.
Hon. DR. HELMCKEN moved, "That it is
desirable that the Dominion Government shall
maintain telegraphic communication with this Colony."
Hon. DR. HELMCKEN —It is absolutely
necessary that there should be some telegraphic
communication with the outer world. It is palpable that we
must have it with the seat of Government.
Hon. MR. DECOSMOS —It will be in the
recollection of some of the Hon. Members that, some
years ago. a question was sent out for discussion from the
Secretary of State as to the payment by Vancouver
Island of a subsidy towards the Trans-Continental Line of
Telegraph. She could not afford it. Canada has the
wire now taken over from the Hudson Bay Company. I
shall support the resolution. I do not regard it as a
sine qua non, but
very essential. I have no doubt Canada will do it.
Hon. MR. ROBSON —I understood the
Hon. Member for Victoria City intended to ask the
Canadian Government to maintain the existing telegraph
line, which runs through a foreign country.
Hon. ATTORNEY-GENERAL —From the
general wording of the resolution I am at a loss to
know what is meant. I think this is a matter which had
best the left out, or we shall be overloading the
terms. If I vote against it, it is because we have fully
too much on the terms.
Hon. DR. CARRALL —I am sorry the
resolutions did not come down more perfect, but if
they had been ever so perfect Hon. Members would have
found fault. I look upon the conduct of Hon. Members
in bringing forward the additional resolutions as being
inimical to Confederation.
Hon. MR. RING —I shall support the
resolution. I think our care will enhance our value
in the estimation of Canada.
Hon. DR. HELMCKEN —It is admitted
that if we are to have union we must have telegraphic
communication. Why it was left out I don't know. it
must have slipped out, for it was before the
Executive. Surely Hon. Members will not have the idea that
$3,000 or $4,000 inserted here will stop
Confederation.
Hon. DR. HELMCKEN —At present, yes.
The only means of communication is through America.
Hon. MR. DECOSMOS —I thought this was
a trans-continental telegraph. I am sorry I said
anything about it.
The Chairman then put the motion, which, on division, was lost.
Hon. MR. DECOSMOS —When I first rose
to address this House on the question of Confederation, I made some passing allusions
to
nation-making. Now, Sir, I believe we are engaged in
that great work. Our posterity will, I believe, control
the northern end of this continent for a thousand
generations. We find the American continent in the
possession of two nations. The northern part in the
possession of the Anglo-Saxon race, and the southern part
in the possession of the Spanish race. Then again we
find the Anglo-Saxon race in the north divided into
two nations. with a great mission before them. The first
object of the great nation to the south of us may,
perhaps, be said to be the acquisition of territory, and
they have a
154
CONFEDERATION DEBATE. united piece
of territory from our boundary to Mexico. With regard to
the northern Anglo- Saxon race—to which
we belong—we find that they possess all the north except
Alaska. If the United States have a single and
compact piece of territory to the south, we want the same
in the north. Look at history as regards the
acquisition of territory by nations: Lorraine by
France, Poland by Russia, Scotland by England, Texas and
Alaska by the United States. How has this been
brought about but by a national policy. For hundreds of
years it was the policy of France to acquire
Lorraine; so it was with Russia and Poland. It has been
said that republics cannot have a national policy as
monarchies can; I say that they have a policy with regard
to land, And I say that we should have a policy of
the same kind. Let us lay down this principle, that
we intend to create a great nation, and intending to do
so, we should have all territory north of the United
States. I have no objection to the United States gaining
territory to the south, but I do object to her
coming north or holding Alaska. Let us glance at Alaska
for one moment. The country is similar to our own.
It has coal. fish, and lumber, as we have, and its
contiguity to our country ought to induce us to
believe that there is a natural alliance between us. We
all know how much the purchase of this piece of
territory cost the United States in hard cash. Then
its annual cost is nearly two million dollars. or forty
millions to support it as a United States Territory
for twenty-five years, Then look at the population, a mere
nothing; and its revenue, hardly worth taking into
account. It is said by many that America is sick of her
bargain, and that Russia sold the United States. I
think this is a favourable time to bring it up.
Canada can well afford to pay for an extended frontier on
the Pacific Coast. If we purchased Alaska the
Americans could still come in to fish and gather furs; so.
commercially, there need be no difficulty. I believe
we could get along smoothly; therefore, I have to move
this resolution :-
"That Canada shall purchase the Territory of Alaska, if possible."
I hope, Sir, in all our relations for the future we shall remain international, not
national.
Hon. DR. CARRALL —I rise to support
the resolution of the Hon. Mr. DeCosmos. The only
objection I can see is, that perhaps it is a little
premature. That Canada will ultimately acquire it, I
can have no doubt. In supposing that the acquisition of
this Territory, and the consequent hemming in of
British Columbia would have the effect of leading the
people of Canada to believe in the ultimate destiny
of the British American possessions being drawn into
annexation, or absorption, the Hon.
W. H. Seward made an egregious blunder; he did it in his
ignorance of the Canadian character. It is not
necessary for Canadians to get up and show their loyalty
daily, they are ready and able to occupy their
position of
imperium in
imperio. There may be some people in
Canada who do not like the Government. In what country are
there not some uneasy spirits? The United States has
them, and England is not free from them. I shall
decidedly support the Hon. member. although, I think, he
is, perhaps, a little in advance of American
statesmen as to the acquisition of territory.
Hon. MR. HUMPHREYS —I think Mr,
Seward understood what he was about when he effected
the purchase of Alaska. I feel convinced that the
Government of the United States will not consent to
let us have it. I have a strong feeling in favour of the
United States, and am satisfied that they should
have Alaska. I don't think Canada can afford to repurchase
the Territory; nor do I think she has men to pit
against the intellectual giants of America. I think
the Hon. Member for Victoria Disirict has perpetrated a
joke on this Council; I shall, however, support his
motion.
Hon. MR. RING —I rise to support the
motion of the Hon. Member for Victoria District.
Hon. MR. ROBSON —I think this a
subject of too great importance to be disposed of hastily.
It ought to be fully discussed. I agree with the
Hon. Member for Victoria District that such is
desirable, but I also agree with the Hon. Member for
Cariboo that it is somewhat premature. I think the
people of the United States would like to get rid of it;
would be rather glad to back out of it. "their
policy is to let it " paddle its own canoe." If we wait it
will probably fall into our hands. If we are to make
a suggestion as to the acquisition of territory we should
not confine ourselves to Alaska only, Let us have
Maine also. It impinges upon Canada on the Atlantic;
and it is a portion of land out of which England allowed
herself to be cheated. It is well known that Maine is
most important, as giving an open winter seaboard to
Canada ; a large portion of Canadian trade has had to
pass through Maine in bond. I believe the Dominion of
Canada will eventually utterly absorb America. (Laughter.)
Some may laugh, but that is my conviction. The United
States have made great progress, but the Constitution is
very defective.
CONFEDERATION DEBATE. 155
It cannot hear the creation of another nation, especially one of such a liberal and
enlightened
constitution as the Dominion of Canada. alongside of it. One of two things is perfectly
certain
to my mind: That the Dominion will absorb the United States, or that they will meet
as one
nation, each giving up something. I think it is contrary to nature that they should
continue
separate. I believe that so great will be the success of the new British North American
Empire.
that it will absorb all the English-speaking people on this continent. The people
of Maine desire
to belong to Canada, and have done so for years. If, on the Pacific. the Dominion
acquires
Alaska, and the State of Maine on the Atlantic, I assert that the great destiny of
the Empire
is assured. I move that the State of Maine be included.
Hon. MR. HUMPHREYS —All we lack now
is a Leech or Douglas Jerrold. I think we shall
ininiortalize ourselves; probably we shall appear in
Punch. I think Mr.
Seward won't blame us.
Hon. DR. HELMCKEN —I must move an
amendment. We shall be absorbed before this
absorption can take place. I shall move to leave out the
words " if possible." I think the frog has swollen
to the size of an ox.
Hon. MR. ROBSON —These debates should
be carried on with becoming gravity.
Hon. DR. HELMCKEN — think so, too.
and I think it would he the duty of any Leech
amongst us to secure a correct sketch of the movers of the
resolution and amendments.
The words "if possible." on vote, were struck out.
The motion "That Canada shall purchase the Territory of Alaska and the State of Maine"
was carried.
Hon. MR. HUMPHREYS —Mr. Chairman, as
there is no further resolution before the Committee,
except my own upon roads, I shall, without further words,
move its adoption.
Hon MR. BARNARD —I think it unwise to
hamper these conditions, but I consider this an
important question. I am here to protest on behalf of
persons who pay road tolls. The excuse made for this
imposition is that the Colony is indebted for the
construction of these roads. People have looked to
Confederation to relieve them of the $4 per barrel duty
upon flour, which they have been paying for so long.
I desire to move an amendment to strike out the
Douglas Road, as I believe it to be unnecessary. I know
that the Upper Country people will raise their
voices against the continuance of the road tolls. Â
Hon. MR. DECOSMOS —The question was
alluded to by myself when the terms were under
discussion. I think the roads. if not national, ought to
be local. I think the matter ought to be approached
differently in dealing with this road. I think that
shortly this plank in the platform of terms will be
useless, because the railway will span the distance if
Confederation is granted on the terms proposed;
therefore, I do not see the wisdom of handing them over
to Canada. I. think it desirable that road tolls
should be abolished, and that we must have something
to compensate us for giving them up.
Hon. ATTORNEY-GENERAL —I cannot
assent to either the original motion or the amendment. I promise by saying the matter
has received considerable consideration The original
resolution, which was suggested by the Hon. Chief
Commissioner of Lands and Works, tool; up this whole
matter. I am sorry the House has not adjourned to give him
an opportunity to explain his views upon this
question. His opinion is that the road from Yale to
Cariboo would not be so well managed by the
Government at Ottawa as by the Local Government, The
Hon. Member for Yale ' that there are no reasons for road
tolls. There is one. as stated by the Hon. Chief
Commissioner. It is being continually improved, therefore
a road of that description ought to carry with it a
road toll for its construction and maintenance as a matter
of principle, even after the original cost is paid.
Hon. MR. HUMPHREYS, with the consent
of the House, withdrew his resolution in order to
make some verbal alterations in it.
Hon. MR. BARNARD —I shall move the
same amendment as I moved to the former resolution.
I will read it:-
" That the Government be requested to insert in the Terms of Confederation to be proposed
" to Canada some such clause as the following: All public roads and property of British
Colum"bia at the time of admission to belong to British Columbia, except such public
works
and
156
CONFEDERATION DEBATE.
"property as shall properly belong to the Dominion under the 'British North America
Act,' and
"such portions of the Main Trunk Line through British Columbia, or other roads then
con" structed, as may be necessary to complete a continuous line of coach road from
a
point at or
" below Yale to a point at the fool: of the eastern slope of the Rocky Mountains,
and that the
" same shall be free of toll of any kind whatever."
Hon. MR. RING —I agree that some road
tolls ought to be kept up.
Hon. MR. HUMPHREYS —My only object is
to bring this matter before the Executive. I cannot
agree with the Hon. Member for Yale. I have not opposed
any proposition of any man from personal motives.
Hon. MR. BARNARD —I oppose the motion
of the Hon. Member for Lillooet. I think it does not
meet the question.
Hon. ATTORNEY—GENERAL —The objection
to the whole matter in shape of a resolution is that
by talking of road tolls we raise expectations we cannot
probably fulfil. I had hoped Hon. members would not
press the subject. I assure the Hon. gentlemen that the
petitions sent up have been the subject of earnest
consideration. I attach weight to what the Hon. Member
for Yale says in this House, and regret that such a
feeling should go abroad.
Hon. DR. CARRALL —I, as Member for
Cariboo, should say something upon this matter. I
have some doubt upon it. I would say this much, as a
member of the Government, that is, that many of the
resolutions brought up here and vetoed will probably form
the subject of negotiation with the delegation in
settling the terms. They will be a sort of substratum. I
regard the taxing of those who use the roads as the
proper means for the keeping up the road, and,
furthermore, I fear to overload the terms.
Hon. MR. HOLBROOK —For such roads as
were made on the petition of the people tolls are
justifiable, but tolls should not be kept up after the
debt is defrayed. No doubt when this road comes
under the rule of Canada she will construct turnpikes. Our
road tolls are too high.
Hon. MR. ROBSON —I regret the absence
of the Hon. Chief Commissioner. I think that he has
an impression that some such resolution as this is
necessary. I regret that the matter was brought up
to-day at all.
Hon. ATTORNEY-GENERAL —I have pointed
out the Hon. Chief Commissioner's objections. He
says that the road can be better kept up by the Local than
the Dominion Government. I regret the absence of the
Hon. Chief Commissioner. He did not state to me any
certain impression, but I am sure he would
have been glad to have joined in the discussion. It has, I
have no objection to state, been discussed in
Executive Council and this discussion will do no good.
I must oppose such resolutions going up to the
Governor. for it may create expectations which, when
the terms go to the polls, cannot be fulfilled. ,
Hon. MR. DECOSMOS —I have no doubt
when the terms come to the polls there will be one
howl of discontent at the financial part of them from
Carihoo to New Westminster. I wish to see road tolls
free but I do not wish to see the Dominion Government
taking charge of our local interests, such as tolls.
With regard totcrms, I say that the financial terms will
kill Confederation when it comes to the
polls. The people from Cariboo to New Westminster want
these road tolls abolished.
Hon. MR. ROBSON —The Attorney-General
suggests, on behalf of the Hon. Chief Commissioner, that we shall lose the revenue;
but this is a
gain if we get free from the maintenance of the
roads. The Government should consider themselves part of
the people, and endeavour to relax taxes. Another
objection is, that under this arrangement roads would not
be kept in repair so well as at present. I say,
under Confederation, the Chief Commissioner of Lands
and Works would have control of roads. The Dominion
Government is less likely to bc penurious
than a Local Government. The Hon. Chief Connnissioner
spoke to me after making that objection. and my
distinct impression is that the Hon. gentleman would
support some such proposition as this. We ask what
is in perfect harmony with reason. We may just as well ask
Canada to do the whole thing, and to maintain the
whole road.
Hon. MR. RING —It astonishes me that
Hon. gentlemen are connecting revenue with these
tolls. It can only be justifiable to keep tolls for the
repair of roads.
Hon. DR. HELMCKEN —I am on the horns
of a dilemma. If I vote for road tolls being
taxable, I shall be told I want to make the terms too
heavy; it against them, I should be told I am
against Confederation.
CONFEDERATION DEBATE. 157
Hon. MR. WALKEM —Sir, I have made few
speeches during this debate, but this is a question
on which I must ask leave to say a few words. Session
after Session the question has been brought down We
have had always a large Victoria element, and this
question has. unfortunately, always taken a Victoria
and Mainland issue. I have studied this matter carefully. With regard to the Acts
themselves they are very strong; they commence with
preambles as to construction, maintenance, and
repair. The toll was not mentioned as to continue merely
until the debt was extinguished, therefore I think
the vote should be taken on another view. The
benefits accrue equally to Victoria and the Upper Country;
probably the farmer gets the lion's share; I know
the Upper Country pretty well: formerly the miner used
nothing outside of bacon and flour. This should not
he made an Island and Mainland question.
Hon. Dr. HELMCKEN —I do not regard
the subject as a joke. We have paid $60,000 for
roads on Vancouver Island—roads not one-twentieth the
length of those on the Mainland. Victoria gets more
kicks than halfpence. Victoria pays the greater part of
the tolls. I belong to a company who pay a large
proportion. What do they propose in place of a road toll?
Some one must pay it. Thirty thousand dollars per
annum is required to keep roads in repair. I say
Victoria and Vancouver Island are more concerned with What
is for the good of the Colony, generally, than any
part of the Mainland.
Hon. MR. HUMPHREYS —I rise to bear
testimoin to the fairness of the Hon. Members for
Vancouver Island in whatever concerns the Mainland. I have
always seen a desire on the part of Vancouver Island
Members to legislate for the whole, and not for a part, of
the Colony. I am as tired of this bickering as any
Member of the Mainland. I consider it our duty to be
more united. It the Hon. Members for New Westminster and
Yale would talk less about injustice to the Mainland
it would be better. I regret the action of the Hon. Member
for Yale; it is factions.
Hon. MR. BARNARD —Vancouver Island has always made practical
jokes of any questions from the Mainland.
Hon. MR. BARNARD —I referred to the
Hon. gentleman for Victoria City. There are no road
tolls on Vancouver Island. [Yes a road tax! —
Hon. Dr.
Helmcken]
Hon. MR. BARNARD As soon as the roads are paid for the
people or the Mainland will, to a man, refuse to pay any
more road tolls. Every item has been used as a
threat against Confederation. I do not offer any such
threat. I believe the Upper Country would accept
Confederation on the terms proposed; but if the Government
expect that they will be able to collect this
$60,000 from the population of the Upper Country
they are mistaken. Â
Hon. MR. DECOSMOS —The Hon. Member
for Yale is unjust to Vancouver Islanders. The Whole
of this Colony is paying large sums of money for interest
on debt on roads.
Hon. MR. BARNARD —I did not say what
I did with reference to Vancouver Island Members
without consideration.
Hon. MR. ROBSON —I hope that
Government Members. in view of the absence of the Hon.
Chief Commissioner, will vote so as to allow this
resolution to go forward.
The amendment of Hon. Mr. Barnard was carried.
The Committee rose and reported the resolutions complete.
Council resumed. and the resolutions passed in Committee were adopted, except those
with
regard to the purchase of Alaska and the State of Maine.
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