PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT IN THE
NORTHWEST TERRITORIES.
On the Orders of the Day being called,
Rt. Hon. Sir WILFRID LAURIER (Prime
Minister). I desire to inform the House
that it is the intention of the government to
proceed with the Autonomy Bill on Wednesday next as the first order. I may say
to the House also that it is contemplated to
introduce an amendment to section 16, which
amendment will be placed in the hands of
the clerk, I hope, before the adjournment
of the House ; and before the adjournment
I think we will be able to place on the
table of the House the papers which were
asked for the other day by the hon. the
leader of the opposition.
Mr. R. L. BORDEN. Of course, it would
be desirable, as I have pointed out to the
right hon. gentleman, that these papers
which are to be brought down, or have been
brought down, should be printed, or put
in some such form that they will be properly available to members of the House who
desire to deal with them in the course of
the debate.
2762
PRIVATE BILLS.
MOOSEJAW AND EDMONTON RAILWAY
COMPANY.
House in committee on Bill (No. 20) to incorporate the Moosejaw and Edmonton Railway
Company.—Mr. Scott.
Mr. R. L. BORDEN. The reason that
this Bill stood was because I desired the
hon. gentleman who has the Bill in charge
(Mr. Scott) to explain why it was necessary to have a capitalization, if I remember
correctly, of $2,000,000, and in addition to
that the power to issue bonds upon the
whole length of the road to the extent of
$25,000 a mile. I would think that perhaps
the bond issue would of itself be amply
sufficient to build and equip the road—perhaps more than sufficient—but in addition
to that we have authorized a capitalization
of $2,000,000.
Mr. SCOTT. I may say, Mr. Chairman,
that the application of the promoters called
for a capitalization of only $1,000,000 and
it was in the judgment of the standing committee on Railways and Canals that the
capitalization was increased to $2,000,000.
I have not the faintest objection to reducing that to $1, 000, 000.
Mr. R. L. BORDEN. What was the
reason for increasing it? Perhaps the hon.
gentleman who was present at the committee can give this committee some information
as to that.
Mr. HYMAN. It has been the usual custom of the committee in regard to roads of
this character to make the capital stock
in the neighbourhood of $10,000 a mile.
It is necessary under a clause of the
Railway Act to subscribe 15 per cent of the
capital to make a start with the road. With
a road of this character having a capital
of $1,000,000 it would mean $150,000, but
with $2,000,000, capital it would mean $300,000.
Mr. HYMAN. About 400 miles. These
matters have all been discussed from that [...]
2839 COMMONS
[...] ther any one could see those plans ; and if
it were necessary to ask that question, what
made it necessary,
except that some one was
looking for
information contained in the
plans
and had gone to
the deputy minister
to ask for the
information, and out of that
fact had arisen the necessity for the inquiry.
At what stage would it be premature for
the hon.
gentleman to approve of these plans
or to investigate them ? Can it be said to
be contemplated by section 122 of the Railway Act that
the minister, the moment he
gets the plans
that are to be prepared under
that section, can seal them up so that neither
he, nor his colleagues, nor parliament, nor
the railway company themselves can see
them or inspect them ? If that be so for a
period of seven months, why may it not be
so for ten years ? I hope the hon gentleman will accede to the reasonable request
from this side of the House, and will show
cogent reasons why, at any rate, he should
not loosen, with regard to these particular
plans, that principle which he says has been
inaugurated in his department, and that he.
will see his way to allow this motion to
pass.
Mr. FOSTER. Just one
word more, if
the House will allow me. If the First Minister were here I would make an appeal to
him with reference to the principle involved
in this matter; as he is not here, and the
Minister of Finance I imagine,
is leading
the House, I
will say to him that I think it
would be a pity if affirmation were to be
made that the House assembled here has
not a right to have a document such as this
brought down if it wishes it. If this motion
is negatived, of course it will affirm that
principle. I call the attention of the Minister of Finance to the fact that I do not
think any real reason has been given why
the public interest would be harmed if they
were brought down at once. Then if we
have not a reason given, is it not rather perilous to
affirm a principle which in effect
would be this, that the House is not master
of the documents which one of its servants,
in the form of a member of the government.
has in his possession, and has kept sealed
in his
possession for months?
Mr. FIELDING. I am
afraid that I cannot agree with my hon. friend that the
House is about to affirm any dangerous principle. Certainly that is not our intention
;
nor is it the intention of this House to aflirm
the
principle that parliament has not a right
to every public document in relation to all
public affairs. But it is a question of discretion. It is a constant practice for
a minister, here and elsewhere, when a motion is
made for papers, to say that in his judgment
it is not wise
to submit those papers to the
House.
2840
Mr. FIELDING. The
minister has given
a reason. My hon. friend may not accept the
reason. For myself I would say that any unfinished transaction might not necessarily
be a proper matter to submit to the House.
Any matter which is pending and left unfinished might properly be withheld from the
knowledge of the public until the discussion
is completed. In that aspect of the question,
the minister does not say that the House has
no right to these papers, he simply says that
in his judgment, and for the reasons he has
given, he thinks it would not be wise to
bring these papers down at the present time.
There is no danger in affirming a principle
of that character. We are only affirming
what is done in all parliaments under the
British system for reasons which, in the
mind of the minister, he deems to be sufficient. Sometimes hon. gentlemen might regard
them as insufficient, but that is always
a matter of opinion
and judgment.
Motion negatived on
division.
PROVINCIAL
AUTONOMY IN
THE
NORTHWEST TERRITORIES—PRESENTATION OF DOCUMENTS.
Hon. W. S. FIELDING
(Minister of
Finance). The House will hardly desire to
proceed further with the Orders. Before
moving the adjournment, if any hon. gentleman has nothing else to bring up, I desire
to submit some papers to the House. I lay
on the table a copy of the School Ordinances
of the Northwest Territories, chaps. 29, 30
and 31, passed in 1901. I also lay on the
table a
memorandum giving a summary of
legislation relating to subsidies to the provinces. These are documents which have
been
asked for by hon. gentlemen opposite. They
are both printed, and will be in the distribution office to-night or to-morrow
morning.
I have sufficient copies to-night to hand a
few around. I also submit a statement
showing the areas of the provisional districts of the Northwest Territories, and
other information with respect to lands in
the Northwest Territories, numbers of Settlers and so forth, these being papers which
were asked for. They are not in printed
form, and I think it would be better to suspend the rule at once and ask the House
to
agree to have them printed. I would therefore move that the rule be suspended for
the
purpose of having these printed.
Mr. FOSTER. Is that
all ? Is there nothing else to come before the House in connection with the Northwest
Territories ?- Because the First Minister promised that before the sitting closed
we would have something with regard
to amendments to the
Bill.
Mr.
FIELDING. Immediately on the adjournment I
will send to my hon. friend a
copy of the amendment. which will be placed on the notice paper. I do not think I
2841 MARCH 21, 1905Â 2842
need to read it, but
I will furnish my hon.
friend at once with a. copy.
Motion agreed to.
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