Mr. Higgins Mr. Chairman, when we adjourned yesterday afternoon the section on Bell
Island had been read and there had been some
discussion on it. I don't know if the discussion
was completed or not.
Mr. Ashbourne Has the Committee any figures
on the 1946 production of ore at Bell Island?
Mr. Higgins The Committee have only the
figures in the report. I don't know if Mr. Jackman
can give us any further information.
Mr. Jackman The production for this year will
be about the same as last year — roughly around
1.5 million tons....
Mr. Ashbourne I mentioned this because
yesterday the figure of $4 per ton was mentioned,
and I see from the I945 figures that the same
value for export was about $2.50 per ton. I was
wondering if that $150 increase was brought
about by the Canadian market paying a higher
price than the English market, and if the English
market is prepared to pay a higher price.
Mr. Higgins These are Major Cashin's figures,
not mine.
Mr. Ashbourne There is quite a difference between $2.50 and $4, sir.
Mr. Higgins I quite realise that, but they are not
the Committee's figures.
Mr. Ashbourne I was wondering if it was a
matter of price, or if it is just quantity....
Mr. Cashin Those figures were given over two
years. If my memory serves me correctly the
amount exported in l945 would be much higher
than in 1946 because the miners have since got
an increase in pay and that would drive up the
cost. The officials on Bell Island told me that the
payroll would be approximately $4 million a
year.
Mr. Higgins That's when they have full produc
April 1947 NATIONAL CONVENTION 483
tion?
Mr. Jackman The Sydney market is subsidised
by the Dominion government, and only gives us
three days a week with two mines operating. The
company told us they were losing money on that.
We won't dispute that, but what we are looking
for is full time operation for everybody — not
working two slopes, three days a week, but four
slopes. six days a week. The only way we can get
it is by having something to absorb our output.
We have it today in England. She will take our
output if we can keep within the price.... It is a
question of keen competition. The Spaniards,
Africans and all the rest are competing in the
British market, and our management said.
"Here is the position: we can break into the
English market for 750,000 tons of ore, but to do
so everybody must co-operate", and we did
decide that we were going to go all out to hold
that market.... The point I want to bring out is this:
... I say forget taxation and give all our people
work, and let all the ore we can get be exported
to England — let it go there, and our payroll will
be around $4 million. Our payroll would not be
$1 million if we got too tough with the company
insofar as government and labour are concerned.
I don't care what anyone says in this Convention,
my argument is that we are today encouraging
capital to work on Bell Island, to maintain
employment for all of us, and we are not going to
tax them out of it. I do not see how anybody, when
they know the full terms of it, could say that the
Dominion Coal and Steel Co. are getting away
with anything. They are not. We are putting more
money into the hands of the people and less
money into the hands of the government. As I
said yesterday, the less money the government
has to spend the better for all of us. Purchasing
power is what we want in this country, less
government, more work for the people.
Mr. Ashbourne What I am concerned about is
the value of this ore that goes out of Newfoundland, and that's what I am trying to
find out.
Mr. Hollett In order to spare Mr. Ashbourne
further worry on that, I think you will find that
the value here is the export value, which I believe
had been agreed upon between the Bell Island
company and the government. The price of ore
apparently fluctuates considerably, and, as I understand it, there was some sort of
agreement in
order to get a reasonable amount, and the export
value was fixed at $2.55 per ton.
Mr. Ashbourne That's the point I was driving
at, and I don't see why the government or the
Customs or anybody else should put in nominal
prices for export. If this ore is worth so much in
England or Canada, let the people know what it
is worth. I know the export price of fish has gone
up, and every exporter has to put down the value,
and why should not these companies? Any firm
that's sending out exports, why don't they put in
the current domestic value, no matter whether it
is up or down? In 1939-40, according to the
number of tons exported and the value, it is about
$2.50 per ton, and that's what I am driving at....
A person trying to assess the assets and resources
of Newfoundland will find that these are not
correct values, and we, as people wanting to find
out the value of Newfoundland, want to get die
thing as correct as we can. Therefore we ought to
have what this ore is worth in Canada and also in
Newfoundland, so that we will know what these
companies are getting for it. Until we know what
they are getting for their ore, how can we say
whether they are paying their proper price or not?
Mr. Ashbourne Well, we as a Convention
should know. It was given yesterday as $4, but...
Mr. Ashbourne Well, how can we know the
value of our export trade?
Mr. Hollett I am in sympathy with Mr. Ashbourne, but I don't see how it would give us any
more information than we have. This is a value
set by the Customs or the government....
Mr. Hollett ....We can get the value if you are
willing to wait until Monday.
Mr. Higgins The government settled it a few
years ago. I don't know ifyou were in the government then or not.
Mr. Ashbourne I was never in the government
of that day. I was in opposition.
Mr. Jackman Labour received $4 million a
year, Mr. Ashbourne.
484 NATIONAL CONVENTION April 1947
Mr. Ashbourne They won't receive too much
as far as I am concerned, for mining.
Mr. Jackman I certainly agree with Mr. Ashbourne. I can see his point— whatis the working
man getting out of it? That is what we had to
consider on Bell Island, ... and here are the facts
in regards to our position: we have an output, as
far as Sydney is concerned, of 750,000 tons of
ore, which gives us about two days work a week.
It has been brought out in the board of arbitration
and there is no question about it, that the Sydney
steel plant is losing money and has been subsidised by the federal government of Canada,
and
it still is. I notice by today's paper that the government is not subsidising the
coal mines any longer,
but they are subsidising the steel plant. We recognise that we are up against a hard
proposition, but
we have an opportunity to get into the British
market, and we know just exactly what we are up
against.
I am a labour man, but I am standing on my
feet to defend capital in Bell Island for doing a
darn good job. The taxation may seem easy but
we, the workers, get the benefit. The less money
they pay the government the more we get.
Mr. Hickman I would like to move that this
section do pass as read, but I would like to ask the
chairman if he could get the values Mr. Ashbourne asked for. I would like, as Mr.
Ashbourne
has said, to have the actual fob. values of the ore
exported, not the nominal one set by the government. After all, you can hardly arrive
at the value
of the exports and imports if you have not got the
true values.
Mr. Smallwood There are one or two points I
would like to have cleared up. When you are
finding out whether there is some arrangement
between the government and the company under
which only some nominal value is placed on the
exports of the ore, if you find out that that is the
case, will you also find out what is the real value?
It is unbelievable that the government of the
country should connive with a corporation to put
a falsified value on the exports of that company.
Mr. Smallwood It is unbelievable, but I would
like to know the actual value of the exports from
Bell Island. Major Cashin here yesterday told us
that the company which owns the Bell Island
mines has not been paying dividends for a num
ber of years, and that they are in a bad way. I am
not in a position to deny that. I am inclined to
think it is true. I see by the
Financial Post in
recent issues that American capital is talking of
buying out the company. The point I want to
make is this: we must be very much on our guard,
in spite of Mr. Jackman's eloquent and sincere
defence of the miners and the management, as a
country and a Convention, when we are thinking
about Bell Island and the company that owns it.
The record of the relations between that company, or those companies (they have been
from
time to time under various names) and the
Government of Newfoundland, the history of
those relationships is not such as to make us feel
any too ready to accept any statement made in the
matter. For 30 years now it has been a long
drawnout filthy story.
Mr. Jackman I would like Mr. Smallwood to
say what he thinks is a filthy story about Bell
Island.
Mr. Chairman Mr. Smallwood is in order,
Mr. Jackman. Sit down, please.
Mr. Smallwood I don't want Mr. lackman for
one moment to suppose that I have in my mind
or heart one evil thought about the miners of Bell
Island — not one. But the history of the relationships for 20 or 30 years between
the Bell Island
company or companies and the Government of
Newfoundland has been a filthy story that would
disgrace any country. Some of it came out in
public and we know it. We know of election
campaigns financed out of money from these
companies. It is a filthy story and I don't want to
see it repeated. I think we have a perfect right, as
Newfoundlanders, and as a National Convention,
to be very suspicious about any fair and plausible
story about that company losing money. I am
prepared to believe it, but I am also remembering
that this is a company with two countries, one
being Canada and the other Newfoundland. It has
three activities — mining ore, and smelting ore....
Mr. Smallwood I am far from finished. I have
heard of this kind of thing happening.... I would
like to have an auditor look and explain to me,
how far, if at all, one part of a company operation
is milked and sucked dry for the benefit of
another part of the same company's operation.
Let's say that company is losing money. But they
may be making money in Bell Island, and sinking
April 1947 NATIONAL CONVENTION 485
it in their steel mills, and milking Bell Island dry.
Maybe that company in Cape Breton has kept
going for years by the money made in Bell Island,
in which case the Government of Newfoundland
would be defrauded. I am not saying it is so, but
I am suspicious. Maybe Newfoundland is getting
the rotten end of it.
There is a new contract coming up in 1949.
When the last contract came up, I remember the
company approached the Monroe
[1] government
to pass this new contract. The government did not
like it, they were ashamed of it. What did they
do? They sent over to the Wabana Mineworkers'
Union and asked them to send over a delegation
so that the government could explain the
proposed contract to them. The delegation came
and met the government, and the proposed agreement was read out and there was a dead
silence
when they finished. The government then said
that if the mineworkers of Bell Island were satisfied with the agreement, the government
might
feel justified in bringing it before the House of
Assembly and getting itpassed, but if the workers
were not satisfied then they would not bring it
before the House. That was in 1927, I think, or
1926. I don't think any agreement was signed, at
least it was not passed, and it rode on without any
agreement until 1929, when this present agreement was brought in — 10 cents a ton
up to a
million and 3 cents a ton for the next half million
tons, and after that nothing at all. That expires in
1949.
Mr. Chairman There is no point of order.
Mr. Smallwood is speaking. You will have an
opportunity to rebut Mr. Smallwood later if you
wish.
Mr. Smallwood So far the government is getting royalties or an export tax from them, and the
most they can get is $115,000 a year. No matter
what they export or produce, no matter what
profit they make or don't make, the most they can
get is $115,000.... Mr. Jackman and the people in
Bell Island and his union must remember that
they are Newfoundlanders — that Bell Island is
not a separate country, but is part of Newfoundland. They don't need me to remind
them
that when the company falls down on the job, as
they have done, it is not the company that has kept
them, but the government and that's why the
government is interested in the amount of taxes
that they get. I hope that this thing will be cleared
up, and that this company in cape Breton, which
Operates also in Bell Island, will be reorganised.
Maybe they are top-heavy, or inefficient, I don't
know. Maybe they can't get markets, but
whatever is wrong I hope it will be cleaned up.
We have resources in Bell Island that God gave
us, and it is up to this country and the government
to get out of those resources the most that can be
got out. It is up to this Convention to figure the
possibilities that lie in that direction. I am not
satisfied with the taxation we are getting out of
Bell Island. I would rather see that corporation
pay it — if it can be done without hurting the
miners — than the fishermen and the loggers and
the labourers. The whole policy of the country
and the government is to defend these corporations. We have been down and out so long,
that
if we get a bit of labour we bless them and let
them off from the payment of taxes, but we tax
our own people and the fishery, and they are
maybe playing us for suckers.
Before I sit down there is one point I want to
ask Mr. Higgins. On page 11, the breakdown of
employees' earnings for 1946; 1,182 men, mostly casual labour, earned less than $1
,000, and 509
regular employees earned from $1,000 to $1,500,
etc., a total of 2,807 men. Actually there were not
that many employed, were there?
Mr. Higgins There were a certain number of
floaters, if you can call it that. They come in for
a period and then they leave and there are others
taken on. In other words, to have something like
800 working men constantly employed you really
have to employ about 1,200 during the year.
Mr. Smallwood Is that it? Is it that there is such
a turnover of labour? Is it that, or is it because in
the peak season they have to take on additional
men?
Mr. Jackman Possibly I could explain that, I
am sure Mr. Smallwood would like to get the
explanation. Here is the position: we mine ore in
wintertime and stockpile. That means that we
have a certain number of men who service the
ships during the shipping season, and that starts
around the middle of April, and continues from
then till December. While we are taking this ore
in stockpiles off the surface, we have around 300
seasonal workers. At the end of the year that's
486 NATIONAL CONVENTION April 1947
finished, but our mining force amounts to 1,400
men. These are permanent, steady workers. That
will explain the fluctuation. These are seasonal
workers, who only take the ore from the stockpiles and ship it.
Mr. Smallwood Thanks very much. I am not
sure that I still understand it. On page 8, staff and
mining employees for 1945, total 1,427; and for
the years 1934 to 1945 the peak totals for the
years were given, which averages 1,575 men.
That's peak for the year, but in 1946 it is 2,800
men. You see?
Mr. Higgins Obviously that's the peak permanently employed on page 8. Yes, that's peak
permanent.
Mr. Smallwood Was there any hour in 1946
when the company at Bell Island was employing
2,800 men?
Mr. Smallwood One final point, and it is this,
on page 12: "The Gander area was leased to the
Nova Scotia Steel and Coal Company ... 50
years." Does that mean Crown land on which
they were given outright grants for 50 years?
Mr. Higgins As you know they are not operating that themselves at all. They are getting their
timber entirely apart from these leased areas and
we...
Mr. Smallwood What about the way in which
the country's timber is being denuded?
Mr. Higgins One part is leased, and is not being
used by them at all.
Mr. Smallwood The country has reached the
point where the timber should be conserved.
Mr. Fogwill In looking over the next section of
the report I notice the committee...
Mr. Chairman Mr. Fogwill, will you please let
us finish this question?
Mr. Fogwill Well it is relevant to this question.
There is a difference of 3.45 cents....
Mr. Cashin I think I might be able to clear that.
The Labrador ore is a higher grade, about 60 -
65%, while that of Bell Island is about 50 - 52%.
The price of ore is based on 50% iron, and for any
units over 50% iron they get 10 cents a unit. If the
ore averages 50% iron for $5 a ton, another 20
units would make it $6.50. I take it that that
Labrador ore is based on that. The value of the
ore on Labrador would be $6 a ton because it is
a higher grade ore. The ore on Bell Island is not
more than 52%.
Mr. Fogwill Would that make a difference of
$3.50 per ton?
Mr. Higgins The figures may not be accurate,
but the reason for the present deal with the
government was on that basis.
Mr. Vardy Without holding up the motion at all
it has been stated that on the basis of the production of one million tons, which
was last year's
figure, we could not seem to reconcile the fact
that the company would be paying out this year
$4 million in wages, when it was stated that the
export value of the ore was $2.55. The facts are
that they contemplated exporting to Sydney
750,000 tons and to the United Kingdom from
750,000 to 1 million tons. That is anywhere from
1.5 million tons up. If you take it and multiply it
by $2.55 you will get $3.8 million, they will be
in the position to be able to pay out $4 million to
the workers. I would remind the chairman of our
last interview with Mr. Anson, there was some
mention made of the fact that they would be
losing a considerable amount owing to adverse
conditions of the exchange on ore going to the
United Kingdom. I think Mr. Anson covered that
ground in our last interview....
Mr. Hollett I thought that was fairly well
cleared up until we get specific information on it.
I was on Bell Island for five years. They don't
take out the ore and weigh it on scales; they take
it out and put it in the ship until she has enough.
It is never weighed. When the government got
after the company to find out the export value,
they agreed on a set export value to be placed on
the ore so that they would come pretty near the
export value of the ore. That is the explanation I
am sure, but we could see if that's right or not for
Monday. As to whether we can get the actual
money credited to the company for the ore exported, that remains in the hands of the
company
on Bell Island. We cannot force them to give it to
us, but we will try to get it.
April 1947 NATIONAL CONVENTION 487
I don't think it is proper or right for any man
in this Convention, with a microphone six inches
away from his nose, to be continually getting up
and damning anybody in this country. Whether
they have done wrong in the past or not, that's not
our job. Our job is to get the facts and present
them to the people. The idea of these
microphones is not so that a man can get up and
display himself as a patriot to the people of the
country. I do not agree that any man has a right
to commandeer a microphone which is by his
nose day after day, and give no other man a
chance to speak. I say that with due respect to all
the men who have the microphones near them. I
do not intend to tolerate this. The thing has to be
properly regulated or else the microphones will
have to be taken away. No man should be able to
get up and monopolise the air for three quarters
of the time this Convention is sitting, and set
himself up as a champion of the cause of the
common man. I do not intend to stand this any
longer, Mr. Chairman.
Having said that, we will go on to page 11, the
point raised by Mr. Smallwood where he said
there were 2,800 men or something. Any man
who has any knowledge of mining knows that it
is a pretty heavy job, and the men can't stay down
in the mines day after day for 363 days in the year,
and there is considerable absenteeism. Some of
the men do not work more than three quarters of
the workable days of the year. That's the explanation. You will find that in every
mine in the world.
Mr. Ashbourne About the weighing of the ore,
I don't know how the compnay pays their men if
it is not weighed. Is it by so much per ton?
Mr. Ashbourne At any rate it's got to be sent
out by ships, and I presume it is sent out at a
certain freight rate, which is so much per ton. I
presume the ships can only carry so much, and
they should know approximately the tons. That is
one way of checking up on the weight.
Mr. Penney I would like to ask the convenor of
the Mining Committee a question. How long do
you figure it will take this Convention to reach
Labrador if we travel along via St. Lawrence and
the Rambler and the intermediate stations? That
is if we are as long as we are at Bell Island?
Mr. Smallwood I hope that having got that off
his chest Mr. Hollett feels happier, but I want
Mr. Hollett to know this — Lhat I am a hard man
to scare and a hard man to talk down, and, within
the rules of this House and this Convention, I will
talk as often as I like, whether he likes it or not,
microphones or not.
Mr. Higgins I was going to add a paragraph
from the minutes we took at our meeting with
Mr. Anson that probably would explain a lot of
the talk we have had: "On the ore we sold to the
United Kingdom this year we finally came to a
price agreement with them in March (1946). That
price agreement was negotiated on the basis of
what they wanted to buy for, and what we wanted
to get. Eventually we got this figure, their last
offer. We had to make estimates of what it would
cost us to produce on that basis, which meant
putting all mines into full operation and making
our estimates based on production of prewar
days. We thought we could ship for what they
offered and make a few cents. Unfortunately it
did not turn out this way. On all the ore we are
shipping this year to England I expect to show a
loss of 30 cents per ton. You cannot run a business
that way. Their price is always negotiated in
sterling. We have to convert into dollars. If
England next year will buy the ore at the same
price she paid us this year, due to the drop in
sterling, and between that and the loss this year,
we have got 60 or 70 tons to make up. We have
got to sell the ore and break even. If somebody
can tell us the answer to that one I would like to
know it."
I give you that to think about when you are
speaking of the big profits Wabana is supposed
to be making.
Mr. Bailey A short time ago I was reading an
article on ore, etc., and the question of Wabana
came up, and also the question of steel. It said that
because of the low content of the ore from
Wabana, the steel works in Sydney were up
against it; also that the ore in Labrador was of a
higher grade, a superior ore, and it looks like in
the next few years when the Labrador mines
come into effect that the United States and
Canada would make a change, and in that case it
would give the low grade ore of Bell Island a
chance. I think they have been having it pretty
tough as far as I can find out...
Mr. Harrington Before we move on I would
like to ask this question. We have touched on the
488 NATIONAL CONVENTION April 1947
matter of living conditions above ground (in the
Buchans report they speak of the conditions the
men work under), I was just wondering if they
had gone into the matter of the underground
working conditions. I don't see any reference to
that. I don't know if you went down yourselves.
Mr. Higgins The members of the Committee
were underground, Mr. Harrington, and, the
members of the Committee are not miners, but it
did appear to our inexperienced eyes to be all
right. We heard no complaints.
Mr. Harrington Did you hear anything about
this silicosis that's supposed to affect miners?
Mr. Smallwood Bearing on that, who carries
out the Mines Regulations Act now? In the old
days we used to get some member of the Opposition wanting to know how many men had
been
injured or killed in the mines, and who had handled it, and what compensation had
been paid. In
those days the Government Engineer was the
only one to enforce that. What is the position
now?
Mr. Higgins I understand there is not a permanent mine inspector, but there is a Newfoundlander
who is employed in Canada who
comes down each year and inspects the mines.
The actual post of Mine Inspector is not filled,
but we were informed that it would be filled
shortly.
Mr. Vardy In answer to Mr. Harrington's question, the members of the Mining Committee did
go in all sections of the mine that they could
possibly get into. I did not miss any opportunity
to get to the lower depths, and I was pleasantly
impressed by the conditions I found in every one
of the cuts; and well out under Conception Bay
you will find that there is a barn where horses are
kept, which is much cleaner and much better than
many human beings' houses in the city of
St. John's. I have seen some of the places and I
found the men quite satisfied. I was particularly
interested in that phase of it because I am chairman of the Health and Welfare sub-committee,
and I missed no opportunity, as our chairman can
testify, and I have yet to hear a single complaint
of the working conditions. There were complaints of the high cost of living, but not
of the
conditions under which they work.
Mr. Chairman Those who are in favour of the
section passing as read please say "aye", contrary
"nay".
[The motion carried]
Mr. Higgins Mr. Chairman, we have a slight
correction in the bottom of the report.
Mr. Thomas advises me today by telegram that
the area leased from the AND Co. is 30 miles
radius from center of shaft: "We pay running
rates to AND Co. on 14 mile section of railroad
from Millertown Junction to Buchans Junction.
We own 22 mile section of railroad Buchans
Junction to Millertown Junction." We hope you
will remember that and make any necessary corrections yourself. With respect to the
question
that Mr. Fogwill put concerning the Labrador
report, I have since asked the government
geologist the position with respect to that $6
figure we quoted in our Labrador report, and we
were informed that that figure is that quoted by
the Lake Superior Iron Ore Producers Association. That would be the association of
all iron ore
producers in the Lake Superior district. That is
the f.o.b. value of Lake Superior ores of 51%
iron, the iron ore being laid down at Lake Superior ports. Mr. Howse informs us that
you have
to figure into that $6 price the moisture, silica,
manganese and phosphoms, there is a deduction
made forthese. As you will rememberthe sulphur
and phosphorus content of the Bell Island ore is
quite high in comparison with the Lake Superior
ore, and that would mean that off that $6 you
would have to take all those deductions.
Mr. Howse did not have the time to give me all
that, but his opinion was that $2.55 is a very fair
price. That is the figure we submitted in our
report. Now Mr. Chairman shall we go on to
fluorspar, St. Lawrence?
[The Secretary read the section concerning fluorspar at St. Lawrence]
Mr. Smallwood On the first page, the third
paragraph: "The second largest known field of
fluorspar is in Newfoundland at St. Lawrence".
Does that mean the second largest in the world?
Mr. Burry That's the information we received
from Mr. Poynter, that it was the second largest
known in the world.
Mr. Higgins By the way the refrigerant mentioned, freon, Mr. Poynter says that practically
every man who has a refrigerator in his home has
some of the Newfoundland fluorspar in it. This is
a point of interest.
Mr. Smallwood Do they pay the same type of
taxes as the other companies?
April 1947 NATIONAL CONVENTION 489
Mr. Higgins No, they come entirely under the
1930 Crown Lands Act. They have no subsidy
and no relief from duty in any way.
Mr. Higgins Only as provided in the Crown
Lands Act, 1930.
Mr. Smallwood Are they not allowed to bring
in their original machinery duty free?
Mr. Hickman In that interview quoted from
Mr. Poynter, perhaps you can explain it, but it
strikes me that with the relatively small production in St. Lawrence of 9,000 tons
shipped to the
USA in 1945 — of course the total production
was 18,000 tons, but they have a 40% additional
cost of supplies over and above their American
competitors — how can they compete? Do they
get any subsidy, or is there quite a profit in the
production? They must be operating under such
terrific handicaps that it must be quite a paying
proposition.
Mr. Higgins Mr. Poynter says that they are
operating under a handicap, they have no subsidy
of any kind, and their labour prices are the same
as the prices of their competitors, and they have
that big difference of duty and the 40% increase
on the supplies.
Mr. Hickman Well, if they are paying the same
labour, etc., how do they compete?
Mr. Miller I think that power cost was
eliminated. The power company distributed for
the mining companies in Newfoundland,
whereas in the States and Canada they buy the
power and the company distributes....
Mr. MacDonald I notice in other reports it gave
the rate of wages paid the workmen. Does the
chairman of the Committee have any idea of the
wage rates there?
Mr. Burry We intended to put in a section on
that, but did not have the facts at that time. We
now have some correspondence which gives us
some information on it. They pay the regular
hourly rates from 52 cents to 80 cents per hour....
Mr. MacDonald Thank you. That would make
the basic rate 52 cents I take it, which is below
that of Bell Island.
Mr. Hickman Does that include a cost of living
bonus which may be taken off as the cost of living
goes down, or is it the basic rate?
Mr. Burry There is nothing mentioned as
regards a cost of living bonus.
Mr. Higgins St. Lawrence is highly unionised,
and I imagine they would have.
Mr. Burry I might say in the report there is a
reference to how well they are satisfied with their
men....
Mr. Burry Yes, that is common labour, and that
is basic.
Mr. Vardy In fairness to the company it should
be pointed out that they allow the men to come
on deck in company time and dry their clothing
and have their lunches. The St. Lawrence mines
are very wet, and it adds greatly to the cost of
production. They are given the hour with pay.
Mr. MacDonald Still, a man working under
those conditions should get more than 52 cents
an hour.
Mr. Higgins Apparently that's all they can afford to pay up there.
Mr. Smallwood Is it true that the people up in
St. Lawrence just about made that development
possible by their own working?
Mr. Higgins Definitely. The picture given us
was that in the early part of that operation there
was no money, the people running it now got
practically no money, and the merchants of the
place carried the production for quite a time. It
was really co-operation of the very best kind. In
fact, going further than that, Mr. Poynter said that
he believed that there were a lot of other places
in Newfoundland of a similar nature to
St. Lawrence — no mineral of a quantity that
would be of interest to a big corporation, but
which might very well be worked by a corporation such as theirs, people who would
be willing
to go in and work on a shoe-string, and eventually
get up to where they can make it pay.
Mr. MacDonald My reason for raising that
point is that the report says that the average wage
paid in the mining industry proves it the most
highly paid industry in the country. Now I took
objection to that. Bell Island again — 58 cents an
hour, and even adding on the 7 cents that they get,
which gives them 65 cents, and they work 10
hours a day. Now other industries have a basic
rate for a nine hour day, with time and a half for
490 NATIONAL CONVENTION April 1947
the tenth hour. I think that's injustice to other
industries.
Mr. Higgins That's the information we have
and we can only pass along what we get.
Mr. Butt On page 4 you say: "We find that our
labour is the equivalent of the mining labour of
United States or Canada." Do you mean that they
pay the same wages?
Mr. Burry I thought he meant that they were
perfectly satisfied with the work done for the
money paid. Mr. Poynter gave me to understand
that Newfoundlanders were about the best
workers in the world. Their production bonus
enables them to step up their wages from 33 to
52%, which ought to be considered in their
favour.
Mr. Harrington On the first page where you
state the uses of fluorspar, as a flux for open-
hearth steel, etc., I understood that one of the uses
of this fluorspar is for certain war equipment. I
was told it was used for goggles. I was wondering
if that had anything to do with the increase in
production and the drop in production, around
1943 it is only 12,900 tons, and in 1944 it is up
to 21,000, and then again when the war was over
it dropped to 18,000.
Mr. Harrington Well, not only goggles; I
thought that was only one of the items.
Mr. Higgins No, I think it was because they
could not meet competitive prices. They are
sending fluorspar in from Mexico much cheaper
than we can produce it here. Even with that long
haul from Mexico they still seem to be able to sell
much cheaper. I presume it is the labour price that
makes the difference.
Mr. Burry That's the way I understood it. In
1946 they did not export anything to the United
States because they could not meet the price.
Mr. Hickman Have they any association with
any large manufacturing company in the USA?
Mr. Higgins No, they are entirely independent.
They sell on the open market to the highest bidder.
Mr. Harrington There's one other question, on
page 5 it says "Power charges average $65 per
hp per year", and further down Mr. Morris says
that the charges were $57 per hp per year in 1944,
and down to $48 in 1946. How does that jibe?
Mr. Higgins We can't give you any more information. The two men gave us the information and
we gave it to you. You can take your choice.
Mr. MacDonald I don't see anything here as to
the actual value in dollars and cents of this
fluorspar exported from the country.
Mr. Higgins I don't think we have it, Mr. MacDonald. We got whatever information we could,
and what information we have is in front of you
now. That's all we could get. The Mining Committee did not visit St. Lawrence.
Mr. Hollett I understand the reason for that was
that the roads were in such a condition. Incidentally we asked Mr. Poynter about the
road condition, and he said it would be a grand thing if they
could get to Burin. So far, after all these years,
they have no road there. While I am on this
subject of the connection of the roads between
Burin and St. Lawrence. I have made some inquiries relative to the condition of the
roads on
the Burin Peninsula, and l have been informed
that fish costs about $1 per quintal more because
of the condition of the roads.
Mr. Hickman The exports of fluorspar in 1943-
44, there was a total of 66,000 tons, valued at
$1,360,000. That works out at about $20 per ton
for export value.
Mr. Higgins I think it is pretty correct. 1 may say
with respect to the figures that we did have the
figures of export and the value, but the corporation told us they would much prefer
that we
show them to the Convention but not make them
public. It would be of very great detriment to their
future trade. They have competitors outside the
country, and if they got those figures it would not
do their business any good.
Mr. Reddy I just want to say that there seems to
be a little conflict here. When first the mine began
the going was very hard, and it was only real
co-operation between labour and capital in
St. Lawrence that brought those mines to this
place in our economic structure today. I certainly
believe, Mr. Hollett, that the road between Burin
and St. Lawrence should be constructed immediately, as it is very essential to the
working of the
St. Lawrence mines.
Mr. Chairman Moved and seconded that this
April 1947 NATIONAL CONVENTION 491
section do pass as read.
[The motion carried. The section on coal was
read and passed, and the section on copper read.
The committee then rose and reported progress,
and the Convention adjourned]
