Mr. Hickman I think perhaps it might be best if
the Secretary would finish reading the report, and
we could then take it all and debate it....
[The Secretary read the second part of the report, and Mr. Hickman answered a number
of questions]
Mr. Smallwood Let us consider the appendix
compiled by the Industrial Development Board,
which strikes me as a constructive. report. They
seem to have the same idea I have â to use up
the raw materials we have here in the country
rather than import. I do not think sealskins are
mentioned, but that is an important item. They are
exported raw. Why are they not manufactured
here? Then the birch. What possibilities are there
for manufacturing that here? Then, limestone. It
seems from this report that limestone is subsidised in Canada. To encourage agriculture,
the
government subsidises limestone to make it
cheaper for farmers. Fish offal â perhaps Mr.
Crosbie can tell us something about that. I was
into a place in Labrador where there was
machinery for turning fish guts, sound bones, and
heads into fish meal. Then we come to seaweed.
What do we find? "Processing firms in the USA
when contacted re the establishment of branch
plants in this country immediately asked for data
on the quantities of the various species of
seaweed available. This information, unfortunately, has never been compiled." Why
not?
They make blancmange out of seaweed.
Blancmange is the usual Sunday dessert in Newfoundland; and here we are importing
blancmange. Then wallboard, If they can make
wallboard out of sawdust, why can't we put up a
place to make wallboard?
Mr. Hickman They are doing experimental
work on that now.
Mr. Smallwood I know the Anglo-Newfoundland Development Co. have been experimenting with it. We
have the raw materials
for all those things. I know of one local factory in
St. John's â it is true they are importing raw
material â they are milking that factory to put
the profits into another industry of the country. I
like that very much.... I hope Mr. Job will tell us
about sealskins and Mr. Crosbie about fish offal.
Mr. Job I take this opportunity of making a few
remarks about Mr. Smallwood's ideas in regard
to different industries. I am in accord with some
of his ideas but I am not in accord with the drastic
way in which he thinks local industries should be
dealt with. Any local industry must have a small
amount of protection and the most important
thing about local industries is the employment.
There are 3-4,000 men employed in local industries, what would be the position if
they were
out of employment now? It is serious. I think it is
helpful to the country generally. The other point
is the enormous government revenue from those
industries. I do not know how much. I do say that
if any industry is receiving excessive protection,
it should be remedied. Now, with regard to
sealskins. The answer is simple. It has been tried
on various occasions. The main trouble is foreign
tariffs. Our sealskins go into the United States
304 NATIONAL CONVENTION February 1947
absolutely free of duty. If we make them up into
a manufactured article we get a 50% tariff or
something like that. The same thing applied to the
British market. The tanning of sealskins is an art
-- it is an art learned in Great Britain at very
heavy cost. We have had factories ââ one on
Water Street West and another in Harbour Grace
ââ and much effort was, made to turn out a good
article. It was discovered utterly impossible to do it.
I do not want to transgress on the questions
asked of Mr. Crosbie, but I would like to say one
word about ïŹsh offal. it may not be known to Mr.
Smallwood, but about 70 years ago, my ïŹrm lost
ÂŁ20,000 trying to deal with fish offal. It has a very
enticing appearance, you sell all this stuff being
thrown away. You think, "This is ridiculous", but
I am sorry to say my firm and others put up
factories in Catalina, Bay Bulls and L'Anse-au-
Loup; I am told it cost my ïŹrm ÂŁ20,000 and it
very nearly ruined us. The day will come when
fish offal will be used, but it depends on the
question of centralisation of the ïŹsheries. Mr.
Crosbie is doing a lot towards that. I hope it will
be a successful adjunct.
Mr. Smallwood There was a time when we got
500,000 sealskins a year; if we get it back to
200,000 it will be good. Even these could be
made into boots and shoes and consumed locally
â manufactured locally for the home market. I
have seen in the States pocket hooks, women's
purses, all kinds of leather goods made in
England and exhibited in the States and Canada,
paying the high duty and selling. In New York
you will see a ïŹne class of leather goods made in
England, and on which they pay high duty. I was
once given a pocket book made of Newfoundland
seal ââ it was soft as silk ââ if you were to buy it,
it would cost $30 or $40. If England can do it, we
can...
Mr. Higgins ....I believe I understood Mr.
Smallwood to refer to the Imperial Tobacco Co.,
and the protection it received.
Mr. Higgins Well, you corroborated Major
Cashin's ideas in the matter, and the suggestion
that the amount they were receiving in connection with salaries after all did not
warrant the
protection they were receiving. The suggestion
was that the protection is not given in other
countries. I believe those familiar with Canadian
and American tariffs will remember that the price
of American cigarettes, if you can buy them in
Canada, is very much higher than here. Obviously it is the same subsidiary of the
major company
who are making the lines of cigarettes that are
sold. They must enjoy a very much higher protecion to be able to charge a higher price
for
American cigarettes. I thought it was worth menioning, because the Imperial Tobacco
Co. was
under attack, because I knew the position myself,
and I am sure a lot of you know it.
Mr. Crosbie Mr. Chairman, l have taken very
little part in the numerous debates which have
taken place, for the simple reason that I prefer to
listen and learn; besides, Many of my fellow
delegates have said, in certain instances, what I
would have said myself. However, I cannot let
this opportunity pass without expressing my
views on some phases of the Report on Local
Industries.
I would first say how disappointed I was at the
small number of replies received by the Committee to the questionnaires sent out to
local firms.
Can you imagine, that out of 150 firms, only 35
showed sufficient interest to answer. Those who
failed to reply have nothing of which to be proud.
If we had our own government, and if l were a
member of it, I would see that these firms produced the answers to the questions which
were
asked. It is regrettable our government did not
have the faith and foresight to implement and
entrust this Convention with power to demand
information, and get it. In many ways (and I agree
with my friend the Major) this country has been
put to unnecessary expense at this National Convention in ascertaining certain facts
when the
government should have, and must have, figures
and statistics which, after proper analysis, would
show if our country is self-supporting or not.
I was sorry and disappointed, but not surprised, at the tirade that bellowed forth
from my
genial friend, Mr. Smallwood, who like Pathé
News, professes to see all, hear all, and know all.
I am far from convinced that he knows all the
correct answers to all the questions all the time.
After the Local Industries Report was tabled, my
friend, with his usual gusto, for 15 minutes or
more, told us what he would do with local in-
dustries which were not producing from our own
raw materials. Now, what did he tell us'? Exactly
nothing, except that he would do away with them,
even if it meant paying something like $4 million
February 1947 NATIONAL CONVENTION 305
per annum to the people, who thus became unemployed, to do nothing. Mr. Smallwood
did not
suggest that the industries receiving protection be
investigated thoroughly, and the unessential and
uneconomic ones be eliminated, and the others
maintained and encouraged. No, he eliminated
them all.
I cannot agree with this attitude. There are
some very worthwhile local industries which are
great assets to our country. I am a shareholder in
many, and no one realises more than I how dependant they are on the income from the
forests, the
fisheries, and our mines. I receive â and I don't
mind admitting it â some local dividends which,
in turn, are used to help finance the things I am
endeavouring to do in our fisheries. I would like
to congratulate the Committee; they have done
their best, and have brought in an excellent report
when you consider the many handicaps they had
to face. As far as local industries are concerned,
I would suggest to our present government, and
to whatever form of government we will have in
the future that they thoroughly investigate all
local companies receiving high tariff protection,
and if they are not operated in the best interest of
the people, remove this protection.
As a closing word I appeal to you gentlemen,
no matter what form of government you favour,
do not let us knock our country; Newfoundland
too often has been knocked by her own sons and
daughters. If we cannot praise our country for
something, the least we can do is wash our dirty
linen in private.
There will be a report on fish offal in the
Fisheries Report. Some 70 years ago Mr. Job's
firm lost a lot of money on utilising fish offal; but
in the last six years I have been greatly interested
in this, and it is only within the past 18 months
that we have found a new process which will
greatly reduce the cost of producing, or processing this.
Mr. Bailey Mr. Chairman, I wonder if the convenor of the Committee could tell me what
material is used in the blankets that cover the
paper machines?
Mr. Hickman Perhaps Mr. Fudge might be able
to answer that better than me.
Mr. Bailey Because I noticed in the report that
these blankets are made in the United States and
Canada because they have the materials in their
own country. I happen to know that they have not
got the materials. Any time you are in Boston if
you go down to the station, you will pass through
a section of the city which is nothing but wool
warehouses, mostly Australian wool. I am interested in the Riverside wool....
[1] Here is an industry
which is worth building up. I came to know about
this during the war, I was in New York and one
of our women, who originally belonged to Newfoundland, happened to go to her closet
and take
out a white blanket and spread it over the bed. An
American woman who was there said, "Where in
the world did you get a blanket like that?" She
said, "That's a Newfoundland product, the wool
is grown there, and the blanket made there"....
These are industries which can be expanded. If in
the future we can get machines to utilise cotton
with the wool, and if we get wool direct from
Australia, without passing through American and
Canadian brokers, here is an industry
worthwhile. I can't see why in the future all our
clothes cannot be made in this country.
Now here is another industry. I was in Costa
Rica during a time of famine and I was talking to
a man about what our country is doing as regards
fruit, and he happened to say, "We were fortunate
to get 800 barrels of loganberries, I wish we could
get 8,000." He said, "You have a wonderful fruit
in panridgeberries." I know one of our women
went to the States to join her son, and because she
was not satisfied to lie around and do nothing, her
son opened a Newfoundland store up there. She
got the berries and started putting up so much jam
in the kitchen. It went from one to another, and
she could not make as much as she could sell....
There is something that can be made worthwhile
if it was looked into.
Mr. Jones I was going to refer to the blueberry
industry. I quote from the report of the Industrial
Development Board: "A report of blueberry
production over a period of years shows that this
industry has decreased alarmingly over the past
few years." I wonder if anything has been done
to revive this industry, which means so much to
the people, especially the people of the Avalon
Peninsula. I know the department has urged the
burning of certain areas. Has this been beneficial
to the industry or not? This matter concerns this
306 NATIONAL CONVENTION February 1947
Committee, and we should find a remedy to
revive this industry which does not cost anything
at all. It would be a wise thing to do.
Mr. Hickman I am not in the blueberry industry
and I don't know much about it, but I understand
the decrease in the blueberry production was
mainly caused by the volume of employment at
the bases, and the people did not have the necessity of going blueberry picking. That
was the
main factor in blueberry production, the price
was definitely set, and perhaps as unemployment
increases, which we trust it won't, it may bring
back a greater production. That is the answer you
get from businessmen engaged in it.
Mr. Smallwood I wonder if Mr. Bailey could
tell us something in connection with wool. I
followed his argument on herring with great interest. I thought it was completely
sound....but
now about this wool. He suggests importing wool
from Australia as the United States does and as
Canada does. If we were to import wool from
Australia to manufacture into blankets and men's
suits, does he suggest that that is an economic
proposition for export, or is he picturing merely
importing enough wool to supply our own needs?
And has he considered the cost of a plant large
enough to do that? Has he worked that thing out?
Mr. Spencer I have noticed that this report does
not say anything about our local shipbuilding
industry. Can Mr. Hickman tell us if that is
covered by another committee. In view of the
importance of this to the fisheries I don't think it
should be overlooked.
Mr. Hickman We did not make that investigation, as we thought it would be covered by the
Fishery Report.
Mr. Northcott The enemies of man are fire,
floods, earthquakes and disease, and it looks as if
we could add local industry as an enemy. I think
we should encourage every local industry,
whether small or large. Every industry started in
this country means a few more people get work,
happier people and happier homes. Our people
are not crying out for money, but for work, therefore we should encourage those local
industries
and place no barrier in their way. It seems too bad
that there are barriers in the way.
Mr. Spencer I wonder if the convenor of the
Local Industries Committee will answer the following question. It is on page 19 of
the report in
connection with cardboard cartons. I wonder if
you have any idea of the price of them?
Mr. Hickman No, the cartons come in for so
many products that we have no price on the
various types. It would take quite a bit of computation to get all that.
Mr. Bailey Replying to that question, I did not
have any idea of exporting, I thought it would be
a long step ahead in the industrial development
of this country if we got as far as where we could
clothe ourselves, and I shall have something to
say on this later when another report comes in....
Mr. Ashbourne Rather than import raw wool
from Australia and New Zealand I would be in
favour of raising it in Newfoundland ourselves,
even though we have to subsidise every man who
keeps sheep, and the time may come when the
government pays them to do it. I realise that the
Committee had quite a job owing to the lack of
statistics. One of the things the govemmentmight
look into how is the formation of a bureau of
statistics. It already has the personnel, and let it
be simplified so that we can get government
statistics, not only for these local industries, but
upon everything pertaining to the economy of
Newfoundland.
When Mr. Bailey was speaking about wool, I
was thinking of the amount of hams and bacon
used in Newfoundland, and I am of the opinion
that we don't raise enough pigs. Talking about
sealskins, Mr. Smallwood mentioned my name
just now. It is quite true that I had a pair of
sealskin boots. We had quite a number of harps
and hoods, and the price was about 63 cents for
a damaged skin, so we decided to send some of
them to Harbour Grace and have them tanned. It
was an expensive process, and we have not yet
got rid of all those skins, but we used them in the
manufacture of certain articles like pouches, purses, school bags and also for furniture,
leather for
chairs, etc. It was quite suitable and I feel sure
there is quite a market for that in Newfoundland,
but not in sufficient volume or quantity to take
the whole of our catch....
Mr. Hickman Some sort of statistical department should be set up.
Mr. Higgins On the question of wool products
â I do not know if I got Mr. Bailey's story right,
but I do not see how we can compete with outsiders. I do not know if your Committee
has any
information about the Riverside Woolen Mills? I
do not see why they cannot be increased. I
February 1947 NATIONAL CONVENTION 307
wonder if we could have your views on that, Mr.
Hickman?
Mr. Hickman We have no views â only statistics. We have had no reply from the Riverside
Woolen Mills.
Mr. Smallwood This business of wool and
woolen mills is a very good example of the point
I am trying to make. Perhaps when the Committee on Agriculture brings in its report
we may
have some information on the practical possibility of rearing sheep.... Mr. Hollett
wanted to
know if they have protective tariffs everywhere.
Yes they do. They caused the big war. Mr. Hollett
will agree there is a difference between Great
Britain with a big home market, and the United
States with 140 millions, and Canada with 12
millions, setting out deliberately with a policy to
start local industries. But take a country like
Newfoundland with 318,000 population, counting Labrador â if you are going to start
an
industry where you have to import raw material
and fabricate it into a finished article, the cost of
doing so is great. You are turning out a small
quantity. Your overhead is high. If you do it on a
large scale, you get modern equipment and turn
out large quantities, you cannot do it in a small
country. If you do, you turn out enough in a week
to last the country for years....
What are we doing today? We are looking at
one of the great issues that has divided man, free
trade. We must export or die. We must export our
fish, our paper and our minerals. Whatever lies in
our power we must do to help industries bringing
money into this country.... When I say local industries, I am talking about fish,
ore, forests â
they are not the kind of industries we are talking
about. I am talking about the industries that are
artificial, made possible by a protective tariff. We
are making it expensive to produce through the
customs tariff. Ithas been a grave issue which has
divided man and made enemies, this question of
free trade versus protection. They come to the
government as infant industries, need just a little
bit of help, little bit of fostering care, protective
tariff. "When we get on our feet, we will not need
it", they say. While they are infants they want the
government to help them. They want a little bit
of nursing. Some of them are now pretty lusty
infants, and they are still getting the protective
tariffs â they were infants in the 1870s. You are
unpatriotic, you are destructive if you get up and
mention it. I do not care if it costs me my place
in public life, I will mention it. I do not want a
place in public life if I have to suppress the truth.
I want to see free trade and cut out the cursed
tariffs.
Mr. Reddy Every member has a right to express
his opinion on any matter that comes before this
House, and being a member of the Local Industries Committee does not debar me from
that
privilege.... I am very much in favour of local
industries, but I am certainly opposed to the exorbitant protective tariff that is
enjoyed by the
main local industries of St. John's, which is conveniently called a revenue tariff.
This burden of
taxation falls most heavily on those least able to
bear it, our woodsmen, miners and fishermen.
Some people argue that if you close down local
industries, you put a certain number of people out
of employment. I would say, if the rights of the
masses are infringed upon, the cause of the
minority is not a just one. In my opinion this
peculiar set-up of local industries in St. John's
appears to be the greatest imposition yet perpetrated against the working class of
Newfoundland.
I feel it is the duty of this Convention to
recommend that this taxation be reduced to the
minimum... I am of the opinion that the exorbitant protection enjoyed by the several
local
industries amounts to well over a million dollars
per annum. Isn't it time that the powers that be
recognised this protection and did something to
reduce taxation from the shoulders of the masses
of our people?
Mr. Higgins I was wondering if the Committee
had investigated the possibilities of electricity.
The making of electricity by windmills is now a
well known factor in the country, and I was
wondering if you investigated the potential
electric power that we might be able to harness.
Mr. Crosbie Can you tell me what protection
these local industries have? How great is it? Mr.
Reddy talked a lot about it, what is the tariff they
have in their favour? Let's have the truth.
Mr. Reddy The Imperial Tobacco Co. gets a
protection of $552,000, and the Newfoundland
Butter Co. $250,000 more.
Mr. Crosbie I would like to tell Mr. Reddy that
his figures are entirely wrong. If he does not give
the correct facts, I will.
308 NATIONAL CONVENTION February 1947
Mr. Reddy I don't think my figures are wrong
about the Tobacco Co. or the Butter Co., but we
don't know about the Standard Manufacturing
Co. or some of the others.
Mr. Fogwill I would like to ask if the Committee
did break down the fourth column, "Wages,
Salaries and Commission"? What part would be
wages?
Mr. Hickman The answer to that question is
that that column includes wages and salaries, or
the compensation for work done which in one
form or another was paid out to their employees.
It was not broken down.
Mr. Fogwill That's all the information you
have? It is not broken down into wages, commission, etc.?
Mr. Fogwill Do you know what is the total
number of employees? Does that include all
employees in a particular industry, including
directors, etc.?
Mr. Hickman Well, the question asked was,
would they give the total number of employees.
I presume that would include directors if they had
any. In most cases there are only from three to
five.
Mr. Fogwill In asking that question I was interested because in Mr. Liddell's report he made
a
survey of employees in the manufacturing firms
in St. John's for March and April 1939.
[1] You
have got it for January to December, which is also
quoted in his report, that is a total of 31 concerns
in St. John's. In a further report which he made
he has it from 64 firms in St. John's.
Mr. Fogwill No.... He gives a total of males and
females in that table, that is for firms employing
15 to 50; 22 firms reported, males and females,
and firms employing from 50 to 150, for males
and females. I thought perhaps that was available
to the Committee, but I understand now that it is
not included in the report. He gives the average
returns for all firms in his survey.
Mr. Fudge I would like to see as many local
industries in this country as we can possibly get.
It has been my duty for the past eight or ten years
to inquire as to what those particular industries
can afford to pay by way of wages. Then we
would seek the wages that we think that industry
could afford. Now there is a lot said about this
protection tariff, or subsidy as I call it. In Canada
they use that word A lot of people are complaining about the high cost of living,
but I have had
nobody yet tell me that anybody has complained
about ways and means of getting protection of
profit. Let's look at our local industries here in
St. John's â the clothing factory for instance. I
wonder would anybody be honest enough to tell
us what it costs the White Clothing Factory to
make a suit of clothes, and what they charge our
people in the outports for it? Most of us have an
idea. I don't know what committee this would
come under, but I hope that in the near future
some of this will be brought up. Then talk about
the cost of living. I know why it is, we have too
many like Ananias and Sapphira here â they
keep back part of the price! If I was challenged
on this I can willingly give more particulars.
Mr. Cranford As a member of the Local Industries Committee I think I should add a few
remarks to what has already been said. When I
was selected as a member of this Committee I
took it as a coincidence that I should serve as a
member. I do not believe there are many in this
assembly more acquainted with the doings and
advantages given to the promoters of local industries, such as the factories here
in St. John's
that have enjoyed protective tariffs, than I am....
I am a person who has passed through the hard
school of knowing how to raise a large family in
an outport with all the odds against him. I come
from the rank and file, an orphan at the age of 14
years, when my father was lost at sea in pursuit
of a living by fishing which left me stranded.
For 45 years I have been trying to eke out a
living by fishing, lumbering, trapping, importing
dry goods and exporting fresh salmon and raw
furs. It can be expected of me to know something
about the conditions under which we live, and
how present and past governments have been the
means of upsetting our economic structure. I am
firmly convinced that one of the principal pests
that ate the props from under our economic structure was the protective tariff. It
ate the life out of
our main industries, particularly the fisheries.
The fishermen do not have any protection. They
are obliged to sell their product in competition
with similar products throughout the world and it
is not altogether the juice that a fisherman gets
February 1947 NATIONAL CONVENTION 309
for his products, it is really the amount of the
necessities of life in return for his fish that counts.
So I say that local industries such as factories, that
handled a large part of the earnings of the people,
obtained from all other major industries including the fisheries, should be conducted
in such
a manner as to be a benefit to the poorest worker
as well as to the richest of this country. When a
person or corporation is about to start a so-called
factory the first thing is to take it up with the
government with the aim and object of getting all
the protection they can produce. That's so they
could prevent competition and be able to satisfy
their dealers with a substantial discount and commission without any consideration
of what any
other industry would have to suffer by their arrangements. They do not care if the
workers of
the country starve to death as long as they could
live in luxury. If that state of affairs is to be
continued it will not matter what form of future
government we may have. In other words, if we
do not take our fishery as a guiding star in all our
undertakings we are doomed to failure.
In describing local industries there are two
kinds. One that I am trying to describe and the
other that is going on in the outports, for example
sawmills that take the raw wood and convert it
into commercial articles, and meet all kinds of
competition and even help to keep the protected
ones going. I must say that since the advent of
Commission of Government the protective tariff
has not been so great. But the sting of past years
still lingers, demonstrated a few days ago when
one of the members of the Board of Trade who
attended a meeting of the Local Industries Committee told the story of a person who
was eating
an article of food made in a Newfoundland factory; when that person was told it was
a local
product he spit it out. Doesn't that story prove
that it was not the taste of the article that made
that person spit it out, but the sting of protective
tariff?
When the words local industries are even
mentioned it sends a thrill through me. It brings
back to my memory what happened over 20 years
ago because of protective tariff. It was at a time
when I had a shipment of goods landed here from
New York bought in the regular way without any
strings attached whatever. It happened to be the
same kind of goods that were made in the local
factories I could not make entry on my invoices
but was told that my goods had to be appraised
by officials of the factories here. I had to prove
without doubt that I could not buy from the local
factories. I was placed in the same category as the
foreign business people whom we all call Jews,
forgetting that the people who built up their businesses by the protective tariff
are the worst kind
of a Jew â a Newfoundland Jew. I have no
hesitation in saying that the protective tariff was
never meant to foster industries that would give
employment to the people, but is merely a concocted manipulation of trade. The consolation
I
have, that I can thank God for, is that my family
was not raised by the protective tariff. If it was I
would not be seen here in this assembly. I would
be found home in an armchair shedding crocodile
tears over the condition of the country.
I do not believe there is another country under
the sun that protects foreign products as we do,
and I am fully convinced that these so-called
factories that reap the benefit of protection are
really parasites on the fishermen and workers of
this country. I will stick to my conviction until
such time as an independent accountant can convince me otherwise. I predict that accountant's
report will show a loss to the public treasury of
the tidy sum of approximately $2,000 a year at
least, for each individual employed in these establishments where foreign material
is processed.
In other words, if the government would pay the
employees of these establishments the full
amount of their wages and let them go idle if they
wish, and import the finished article, the government would save at least $2,000 a
year on each
individual so employed and in one or two cases
it will be double that amount.
If there are any persons or firms that wish to
dispute my prediction, I suggest they produce a
comparative statement showing the difference in
the regular duty that would be paid on the same
quantity that they processed during the past year,
and what they really paid. and the amount of
excise duty paid for that period, and have it
certified by the Department of Customs as being
correct. If that is not done I will consider myself
as being correct.
Mr. Chairman If there is no further discussion
I shall put the question.
Mr. MacDonald Going back to a question concerning the corporation taxes paid by these local
industries, which has a definite bearing on the
310 NATIONAL CONVENTION February 1947
value of these local industries. I understood it was
impossible to get these figures from the different
companies, but does the convenor of the Local
Industries Committee think it would be possible
to get them from the Finance Department in the
aggregate amount? Do you think they would give
you the aggregate amount of the corporation
taxes that are paid?
Mr. Hickman The Assessor of Taxes could be
asked if they would give us the total figure paid.
Mr. MacDonald That's it. I could see where the
companies don't want to make a public acknowledgement. I would not. But I think it
is due to
this Convention to know the amount that these 35
companies have paid in as a whole. Considering
the value of the local industries to the country as
a whole I think it is a most important thing. There
is no way of averaging or considering what it
might be for any one concern, and it would not
give away any of the business secrets of these
concerns if we got the total amount.
In looking over this list I see there are three
concerns that export some of their products, to
the amount of $133,000. Would the convenor of
the Local Industries Committee say that it is
possible to manufacture in this country and export?
Mr. Hickman That might be possible in certain
cases, but I would not be able to give a general
answer. There are some items that could be exported. For example in this report here,
one export is margarine. I imagine that is what went to
St. Pierre. There must be items that can be exported. There has been such a demand
locally in
the last few years and such a shortage of imported
goods that I don't think we could touch the export
market.
Mr. MacDonald I was thinking of the old
country, they are like ourselves, they must export
or perish. That country lives purely on industry,
and most of them are conducted by importing raw
materials. They have very little of their own, but
everything is imported, manufactured and then
exported to other countries and compete with
those from which they imported the raw materials. How do they do it, and can it be
done here?
Mr. Smallwood The other name for Great
Britain is "the workshop of the world". She imports raw materials in hundreds of steamer
loads,
fabricates them in vast mills and factories and
then exports the finished products, She has the
greatest merchant marine in the world. There is a
great difference in that and a little country of
300,000 people importing for local consumption
alone.
Mr. Ashbourne Regarding the export of margarine, I presume that is not allowed today. Certainly
we are not allowing that to go out of the
country now with our imports cut by 15%?
Mr. Hickman I don't know, these figures are
back in 1945.
Mr. Ashbourne I notice that $2,400 worth of
brick was exported. It might be capable of expansion. These bricks are in great demand
today,
because it is quite ajob to get galvanised iron to
make stovepipes, and we are very fortunate in
being able to make brick in Newfoundland. I
would also .like to have seen some reference to
the matter of plastics. As I understand it, that's
quite an important industry, particularly in those
countries that have large forests, and I hope that
Newfoundland will be able to do something in
this regard, and also in the matter of pottery....
Perhaps when the investigation that's going to
take place shortly materialises, many of these
industries will be brought into a flourishing condition. We would have more industries
if we had
more coal. If we had the coal we could manufacture some of our own iron ore.
Mr. Harrington There are a few general observations I would like to make on several of the
matters referred to in the report or inferred during
the debate. In leading off, I would refer to a
statement which I made in a radio broadcast
during the short election campaign that preceded
the election in June last. In speaking of the purpose of the Convention, I said: "You
are not
electing a government; you are notelecting members to the House of Assembly who will
repair
the public wharf or fix the highroad through the
settlement; or see that new industries are created
in the West End of St. John's before they are
started in the East End. That is not the purpose of
the National Convention â that is the job of the
government which will take over when the National Convention is history...." Some
weeks ago
too, in a Christmas message to the people of St.
John's West, I said I did not intend to apologise
for the debates that had taken place in the Convention, which in some quarters have
been
criticised as irrelevant and inclined to wander. I
make no apology now, and you may be entitled
February 1947 NATIONAL CONVENTION 311
to wonder if I am going to contribute to that
irrelevancy, which though perhaps unnecessary,
is nonetheless natural, in view of my first quotation, which speaks of new industries
being
created in the city of St. John's.
I assure you I am not, although, when it is
considered that the bulk of the secondary industries are concentrated in the city,
both myself
and the other four gentlemen on my left here, who
represent that city, as well as the convenor of the
Local Industries Committee, Mr. Hickman â all
five of us might be more than justified in holding
forth on the merits of such local industries, as
long as some other members have railed against
them, and advocated their abolition or their
restriction in one form or another.
I don't think the people of St. John's either
expect or want such defence or explanation. They
will agree that the pros and cons of such a policy
are something for a government to concern themselves with, a democratic government
too, when
perhaps one political party might make free trade
and anti-protectionism and even abolishing of
local industries a plank in their platform on which
they might try to be elected, and then bring about
such reforms.
From the days of Adam Smith, the famous
English economist, whose treatise The Wealth of
Nations was published in 1776, the doctrine of
free trade has been known. Its first application
came with Pitt's commercial treaty with France
in 1786, which removed many of the prohibitions
and duties that had previously obstructed
legitimate trade between the two countries, but
the outbreak of the Napoleonic wars checked its
workings. Down through the centuries the
protagonists of free trade and protective tariffs
have been battling the subject, and there is still a
wide difference of opinion as to the respective
merits of either policy, and the existence of
protective tariffs in most countries of the world
today would seem to prove that the free trade
doctrine has not as yet won the allegiance of an
overwhelming number of disciples. The breaking
down of all international barriers and tariffs
would seem to be essential to the satisfactory
working of the doctrine, and perhaps it may be
said that the ultimate fulfillment of the dream of
men like Adam Smith, Mercier and Le Trosne
lies in the present dream of the peoples of the
globe for the "one world" that Wendell Wilkie
sought, and which today has its shaky beginnings
in the United Nations Organization.
I do not wish to become involved in a theoretical discussion on free trade and tariffs
â protective or preferential. Such a discussion can be
highly academic and of little value to the ultimate
conclusions of the Local Industries Committee or
the Convention as a whole. I do agree with the
Committee's conclusion "that the local industries
of the class investigated by us do have a definite
bearing on the economy of the country and contribute in no small way towards the employment
and support of a large number of people, and that
encouragement should be given to the establishment of all local industries that could
in any
way contribute the same benefits to the economic
structure of Newfoundland". I also find myself in
agreement with their statement in the last paragraph of page 9 â "The question of
local industries in relation to tariffs and customs duties,
as affecting the cost to the consumer, was taken
up by your Committee, and it should be noted
here that your Committee is not satisfied that the
high customs tariff under which certain local
industries operate may be in the best interest of
the country as a whole, and we believe that such
matters should be investigated." Again I say, that
it is a government's duty to conduct such an
investigation, and it is not a task that comes
within the scope of this Convention.
Quoting again from the report: "...the Committee felt that it would require the investigation
by accountants and/or economists in order to
determine the degree of protection in connection
with revenue tariff." I have to disagree with Mr.
Smallwood's inference in Friday's debate that
the Committee was lacking in appreciation of its
task as well as its powers, by not getting such
accountants or economists to assist them. By the
same token all committees of the Convention
would be so lacking, including the Committee on
Transportation and Communications, which on
certain matters, notably the railway, professed its
inability to make a proper assessment of all the
figures and factors that went to make up their
comprehensive report.
This observation serves to give an opening for
my own opinion as to the degree of co-operation
which the Convention on the whole has received
from the existing authorities in the carrying out
of its task. When this Convention began, the
312 NATIONAL CONVENTION February 1947
present government should have set up a small
staff of accountants, perhaps an economist
among them and so on, to materially assist the
Convention in its fact-and-figure Steeplechase. I
am the first to admit that the co-operation we
received on these lines among the civil service in
the various departments was whole-hearted and
valuable, but many of these people were already
overworked and the amount of help they could
give was limited.
I agree with Mr. Hollett's remarks in connection with the second paragraph on page
10. It
seems strange to me also that there should be in
existence since 1938 an Industrial Statistics Act,
which however appears to be more honoured in
the ignoring than in the implementation". I
strongly support the Committee's recommendation that it be implemented, after careful
revision
which would produce some worthwhile changes.
In this regard, I must add a few words, on the
same matter which was one of the first obstacles
met by the Local Industries Committee The
Committee says, "...we might say that from the
outset we have been very much handicapped by
the lack of figures and statistics in relation to
employment, production, invested value and
other figures regarding the secondary industries.
There is a complete lack of the necessary
figures". That last brief sentence has now become
the official refrain of all committees; for, as was
pointed out, the Mining Committee has been so
handicapped, and it is no secret that the Public
Health and Welfare Committee, of which I am a
member, has been up against the same problem
In the debate on the supplementary report of the
Forestry Committee and in previous reports of
other committees, the same thing is found; the
same abysmal ignorance of the various statistics
that go to make up what Mr. Smallwood has been
so much concerned with â namely, the gross
national product. It is one of the great sins of
omission of which the present government, with
its 13 years of undisputed authority, has been
guilty. I note too with some disappointment the
lack of co-operation that the Committee had to
contend with in connection with the questionnaires which were issued to various local
firms
for completion. It is regrettable that they did not
consider the matter of sufficient national importance to supply the information desired,
and it is
to be hoped that the country will make note of
such an unco-operative attitude, or lack of interest. It is a small matter, but it
serves to prove what
insurmountable barriers lie in the way of the
Convention's getting a true picture and a
thorough appraisal of the general position of the
country.
Only one other observation would I make.
That is with reference to the rather sweeping
remarks in connection with the figurative burning down of all local industries and
paying the
people so employed out of the treasury. I am
aware that no one means that literally, but saying
it does create a false impression in the case for
local industries. I do not agree, any more than
other speakers, with excessively high protective
tariffs, but I do agree that local industries should
have some protection, though within reason. That
is a matter which requires much investigation as
the Committee has said, and until such time as it
has been thoroughly gone into, we should not so
sweepingly condemn an avenue of employment
which takes care of a fairly large section of the
community. The process of reduction of duties
should be a gradual one, over a period, so that
those whose livings may be affected by the subsequent loss of local industries may
become absorbed by other industries and in other
occupations. It is a vexatious and highly complex
matter and is not something which either the
Local Industries Committee or the Convention as
a whole can either solve or dispose of in the brief
period of its existence.
All these comments have dealt with the first
part of the report for to my mind it is the only
controversial part; the second portion which consists more of an account of stewardship
by the
Newfoundland Industrial Development Board is
not controversial and in the main is most satisfactory and encouraging. In the comparatively
short
time that this Board has been in existence, it has
accomplished a variety of excellent projects, that
have more than justified the setting up of this
organisation. For those people who favour either
complete governmental control or nationalisation of everything, and those who are
equally in
favour of governmental abstention from everything, especially where it may conflict
with
private enterprise, here is an example of how
these two extremes can be more or less reconciled
to bring about a mutual co-operation between
government and private enterprise, with benefi
February 1947 NATIONAL CONVENTION 313
cial results to the people of the country as a
whole. I endorse the work of the Newfoundland
Industrial Development Board and recommend
that they receive all the encouragement possible.
[The committee rose and reported that it had passed the report. The Convention adjourned]
