Legislative Assembly, 28 April 1865, New Brunswick Confederation Debates


FRIDAY, April 28th.

On motion of Mr. GILBERT leave was granted to introduce a Bill to provide for the fencing in of certain intervale lands, and maintaining roads through the same in the County of Westmorland.
On motion of Mr. GILBERT leave was granted to lay before the House the petition of Rev. P. Callahan and others, of Shediac, to provide for the fencing in of certain intervale lands, and maintaining roads through the same.
Mr. WILLISTON moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the protection of Moose. This Bill on motion was read a first and second time and referred to a select committee to report thereon.
Mr. SCOVIL suggested the desirability of having a law on the Statute Book providing for the preservation of partridges. (A member.—" And another to preserve rabbits.")
Mr. WILLISTON brought in a Bill relating to French property at Alma, in the County of Northumberland.
Mr.WILLISTON on motion presented a petition from George Letson and others of Alma, Northumberland, praying that the French may he required to support their own paupers in that district without drawing from the poor law fund.
Hon. Mr. SMITH laid before the House the report of the Committee appointed by last House to attend to the reporting and printing of the Debates. Report adopted.
Hon. Mr. HATHEWAY stated that he had been requested to inform the members that they could, if they wished, have the copies, if they desired to send it to their constituents, done up and mailed from the Publisher's office on the payment of four dollars for the Session.
Mr. CONNELL said the copies for the members ought to be done up and sent to the House, to be distributed by a person apppointed for the purpose.
Mr. L. P. W. DESBRISAY presumed it was optional with members to do as they pleased in the matter. He thought the idea a good one, and much preferable to the plan adopted her? of having them sent out from the House.
Mr. BOYD moved that the number of Debates printed be 6000, instead of 4,500 mentioned in the report.


Mr. CONNELL moved that the distribution of the Debates should be apportioned according to population of 1861.
Mr. MCMILLAN moved an amendment that the distribution be as formerly— a  definite number to each member.
Mr. BOYD said that in past years the distribution of the Debates by giving a certain number to each member had been very unequal and unfair. The small counties had received as many as those with a population of 30 or 40 000, and he thought by carrying the resolution a better order of things in this respect would be introduced, and much more general satisfaction given.
Hon. Mr. SMITH asked if the resolution contemplated representation by population.
Mr. LINDSAY said of course the Hon. ex-Surveyor General would go for the amendment, as'he represented a county with a population of some 4 or 5,000, and he would like to get as large a number as Carleton with its 17 or 18 000.
Mr. MCMILLAN did not know where the hon. member got his information as to the population of the county he represented, but he certainly had been misinformed.
Mr. CAIE asked if two counties, each with about the same population, the one having four members in the House and the other but two, would receive the same number of copies, or would one get double as many as the other.
Mr. HUTCHISON thought St. John should not have as many copies according to population as the rural districts, as they were well supplied with papers as conveyances of intelligence of  the doings of the House. With this exception he was favorable to a distribution apportioned according to population.
Mr. WILLISTON.— In Northumberland and Gloucester the people are engaged in various employments, and require a larger diffusion of information than in counties DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1865. 3 where the people were generally engaged in but one pursuit—King's, for example, where the people were mostly agriculturists?. In St. John and some other places there is a larger amount of information imparted by the papers which cannot be the case in scattered districts. Then again, there is often more legislation required for small constituencies than for larger ones, arising from the varied interests involved. The object of having the Debates printed is to impart information. St. John is represented by a number of reporters of newspapers, who give to the people a synopsis of every day's proceedings, but in the North four counties had but one paper between them, from which to gain any information of what is going on during the sittings of the Legislature. I hope the House will fully consider the question.
Mr BOYD.—Charlotte has a population of twenty five or thirty thousand, with very little newspaper influence. The only way of diffusing information of the proceedings of the House is by making a division of the Debates according to the population.
Mr. GILBERT.— I rise to adopt the principle of the resolution. If the division is made in any other manner than by population, then Northumberland will get about one-tenth of the Debates, while Carleton county, with a larger population, would get but about one twentieth. The principle of the resolution is equitable and just, and shall have my support.
Mr. MCMILLAN wished to explain. The only way to justify the expenditure of public money for this work was by using it for the benefit of those that required information. In St. John such information was not required, as they daily read a synopsis of the past day's proceedings. If the debates were to be divided according to the tenor of the resolution St. John would get about 1-6th of the whole, while other parts of the Province which have not newspaper advantages, will receive but very few. The resolution was adopted.
Mr. BOYD moved for leave to bring in a Bill authorizing the Trustees of Church in St. Andrews, to provide for the sale of certain lands towards payment of the debt due on the church.
Mr. SCOVIL moved that 2000 copies of the Journals of the House be printed for the use of the Members.
Mr. MCCLELLAN asked if the distribution of the Journals was to be on the same principle as the Debates.
The SPEAKER replied : The resolution with regard to the Debates has no relation to the Journals.
The SPEAKER informed the House that His Honor the Chief Justice was present to swear in a member. Whereupon His Honor administered the oath to John Glazier, Esq., who took his seat as one of the representatives of Sunbury.
On motion of Mr. MCCLELLAN the resolution on the distribution of the copies of Debates, according to population, came up for re-consideration.
Mr. BOYD gave notice that he should move reconsideration of the question again to-morrow, if now rescinded.
Mr. CORAM moved that the House adjourn till 2 o'clock.
Hon. Mr. BOTSFORD was surprised to hear the motion for adjournment, and thought the moving of a resolution for reconsideration, after the motion had been adopted and the House had become thin by members having left their seats, was not treating them with that courtesy they deserved.
Mr. CORAM withdrew his motion of adjournment.
Mr. MCCELLAN in reply to the remarks of the Hon. Surveyor General said he was not in the House when the question of the distribution of the Debates by population came up, and on learning the result had moved for a reconsideration. He disclaimed any act of discourtesy to the members, inasmuch as he waited whilst a call for the House was made.
Hon. Mr. BOTSFORD thought when he spoke that the amendment to have the Debates distributed as heretofore, by each member receiving a certain number, had been carried, and under these circumstances had characterized it as showing a want of courtesy to those members who had voted for the original resolution, but had been called away. He hoped this explanation would be satisfactory.
Hon. Mr. Hatheway said these resolutions and the lengthy talk upon them with regard to the Debates was the annual offering of the House. He thought when the resolution passed to make the apportionment by population, as unjust to those portions of the country which did not possess the advantages of newspaper reports. Carleton should not be placed in a better position than Restigouche or Gloucester. The people in those Counties possessed little information and therefore the distribution should be as heretofore.
Mr. CAIE said there were always two ways of looking at the same thing. The County he had the honor to represent had about the same population as Northumberland. The demand for copies of the Debates was as large as in that County, but whereas they had four members in the House, Kent had but two, and by giving the Debates to the members as had been done in times past, they would get just double the number of copies. He was therefore in favor of distribution by population.
Mr. SUTTON said that although he remarks of the hon. member for Kent were correct, yet as the people he represented were mostly French, they would no require as large a number as Northumberland.
Mr. LANDRY said that the French were desirous to know what was being done and though they could not all read the debates yet some could, and these would read and explain them to others.
Mr. MCCLELLAN moved that the distribution of debates be made by allowing an equal number to each member. This motion was not sustaine by the House.
Mr. MCMILLAN moved that St. John be exempt in making up the estimate on the population of 1861.
Hon. Mr. Hatheway begged the House to remember the position of the North. St. John boasted of a population of over 40,000, and she would get about one fifth of all the debates. The passing of the resolution would tend to lessen the number in the rural districts rather than increase them, and if it were pressed, he should vote for Mr. McMillan's motion
Mr. WETMORE said the people of Saint John, if better informed, paid for the information they got through the newspapers, and the people in the country could obtain it in the same way if they saw fit to do so. He should certainly oppose the motion to exempt Saint John from participating in the receipt of the debates.
Mr. NEEDHAM moved a reconsideration of the question. On being requested by the Speaker to put his resolution in writing he stated that as the House had not yet supplied him with stationary, he couldn't do it.
Mr. WETMORE thought the motion unparliamentary.
Mr. CORAM again moved that the House adjourn till 2 o'clock.
Mr ALLEN said he had never heard of a motion of adjournment at that time of day ; if they wished to separate, the Speaker usually left the chair, and that ended the matter.
Other Honorable members rose to speak, when the Speaker left the Chair, and the House separated at 12 o'clock.


Mr. WILLISTON moved the adoption of the Report of Contingent Committee, which provides six dollars to each member for stationery, this being considered, on account of the presumed shortness of the Session, as sufficient. The Clerk of the House is also allowed to obtain all the stationery he requires from the office of the Board of Works, and anything obtained from other sources cannot be sanctioned. They also beg leave to bring in a further report.
Hon. Mr. HATHEWAY moved for leave to bring in a Bill relating to the Great Roads and Bridges.
Mr. CAIE moved for leave to bring in a Bill to encourage the destruction of Bears in this Province.
Mr. WETMORE moved for leave to present a Petition from the Bishop of Fredericton and others respecting certificates of marriage.
Mr. TROOP presented a Petition from the President, Directors and Company of the Commercial Bank for leave to amend their charter. He also moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend their charter.
Mr. SCOVIL presented a petition from S. Foster and others praying that the Act to remove the Shire Town of King's County be repealed.
Mr. WILLISTON presented a Petition from the Rev. E. Hickson and others of Northumberland County praying of certain alterations in the publication of Marriage Banns, the reduction of Marriage Fees, and the Registration of Births, Marriages and Deaths within this Province. Ordered to be read and laid on the table.
Hon. Mr. ALLAN moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Act relating to the Naturalization of Aliens?
Mr. L. P. W. DESBRISAY moved for leave to bring in a Bill to establish an additional Circuit Court in the County of Kent.
The SPEAKER called the attention of the members to the motion before the House for the reconsideration of the Resolution providing for the distribution of the Debates according to the population of 1861. On division of the House the original Resolution was sustained.
Mr. CONNELL presented a Petition from George Milligan and others of Carleton County, praying that the publication of Marriage Banns be reduced to two Sundays, and that License Fees be in keeping with the same.
As a number of Petitions had been re-
ceived on this subject he moved that Committee be appointed to whom they shall be referred.
Mr. OTTY presented a Petition from W. H. Perkins and others, praying that the Act authorizing the taxing of the inhabitants of King's for the removal of the Shire Town of Sussex be repealed.


Mr. SUTTON asked the Speaker for information as to the number of coaches
might be so arranged now. The use of one coach was enough
Mr. A. C. DESBRISAY moved an amendment to the Resolution, that the Contingent Committee be authorised to employ one coach for the use of the House.Adopted.
Mr. NEEDHAM moved that every member of the House fold and address his own Debates and Journals, and post them without the employment of a messenger.
Hon. Mr. ALLEN hoped his honorable colleague would withdraw his motion. He thought he would do it if he gave the matter a few moments' consideration.
Hon. Mr. HUTCHINSON was surprised at such a resolution being laid before the House. It looked like a burlesque.
Mr. LINDSAY said that for years members had folded and addressed their own Journals, and he thought they could do it again.
Mr. SUTTON said the resolution was foolish and uncalled for, inasmuch as, if adopted, it would be compulsory on members to fold and address their own Journals.
Hon. Mr. ALLEN again hoped the hon. member would withdraw his motion. He thought that he would not like to see it inserted in the Journals of the House.
Mr. NEEDHAM would not withdraw his motion, unless the House consented to the adoption of another. It was this, that the offices of Sergeant at Arms, Messenger, and Door-keeper be abolished. If the House would carry that, he would withdraw his first resolution.
Hon. Mr. ALLEN.—Conditions could not be imposed on the House to influence the hon. member to withdraw his motion
On motion of Mr. BOYD, the House here adjourned till to-morrow morning, at 10 o'clock.
J. M.


New Brunswick. Reports of the Debates of the House of Assembly. St. John: G.W. Day, 1865-1867. Microfilm copies provided by the Provincial Archives of New Brunswick.



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