HON MR.
HATHEWAY called the
attention of the House to a
statement in
an article in the Fredericton Reporter in
which he (Hon. Mr. Hatheway) was
made
to say that His Excellentcy had entrusted
him with this formation of the
Government. He gave that statement a flat contradiction. The editor or reporter of
that
paper in which it appearered, having
sat
through the debate, must have known
it
to be un'trua What he had said
was that
His Excellency had called upon him to
form an administration, but he declined.
House went into Committee of the
Whole on a Bill to amend the act to incorporate
the Albert Railway Company.
They opposed the resolution moved by
that hon. member to repeal the Intercolonial Railway, and moving, as an amendment,
that it would be inexpedient to repeal the Act, and that it was not prudent
by immediate legislation to incur any new
liabilities for the construction of railway.
The discussion of the question excited
great interest. Ît was in the midst of it,
it would be remembered, that the Government got news that the Nova Scotia Government
had repealed the Intercolonial
Act; and it was after that action of Nova Scotia that the Government came
down with the Subsidy Bill. He was astonished that any member of the late Government
would traduce it by saying that
that Government brought down a bogus
Bill; he was. astonished, that their Chief
Commissioner should appear in such a
position. Much as that Bill had been
condemned, the present Government wished to take to themselves all the merits
and advantages of it.
The discussion continued some time on
matters apart from the Bill under consi
deration, and finally progress was reported.
AFTERNOON.
ADJOURNED DEBATE ON THE AMENDMENT
TO THE ADDRESS.
MR. LEWIS.—The most important
question argued in the course of the debate was Confederation. He had been
elected to go in for Confederation, and
he was there to support that policy.
During his canvass in Albert, he had met
with strong Opposition from His Honor
the Attorney. who went lecturing through
that County, and by his powers of oratory and eloquence influenced many who
were in favor of Confederation to vete
against it. Now it appeared that Government of which the Attorney General
was leader was now in favor of Confederation. The Government had been arraigned on
a number of counts, and all
these had been so fully argued that it
was not necessary now to do more than
touch upon them. They had been arraigned on a charge of not calling the
House sooner together. He could see no
objection at all to postponing the Legislature until March. He thought it an
improvement from the usual course of
meeting in February. Hon. members
would now all be able to get home by
water, and thought this would be much
preferable to breaking up before the navigation opened, and when the roads were
in an unfit state for travel. At one time,
he remembered, he had to pay $16 for a
passage down the Nerepis road, and had
to walk more than half the way. Another count was, they had not appointed
an Auditor General. He thought the
Government were highly capable for
not having an officer to take charge of
the Audit Office. The public accounts
that had been put forth this year might
be easily understood; but that fact did
not clear the Government from the charge
of not having a responsible officer at the
head of the office. In 1854 the Government was condemned for building railways without
Commissioners according to
law, and he thought this present Government was equally culpable in conducting
the Audit Office without a responsible
head, as the law required. The defence
of the country was another count against
the Government. The country was alarmed about the Fenian movement and he
was somewhat alarmed himself. He did
think, considering the excitement in the
country, that the Government ought to
have done something to put the country
in a proper state of defence. He hoped
they would take efficient steps to place
the country in a state that it would be
able to resist an invasion should it take
place .
A great deal had been said about the
York election. He could not see that the
country was interested in that election
or that it had anything to do with the
business of the country, or affected its
interests. He could see no use whatever
in dragging it into the debate, and it was
high time to bring the matter to a close.
One charge the Government had plead
guilty to—that was, their neglect about
the Export Duty Law; and they had
thrown themselves upon the mercy of the
country. If this was the only charge
they were guilty of, they might be forgiven, and still keep the confidence of
the country. But this was not their only
neglect of dutv. and be thought it would
bo better for their interests if they voted
them out and brought in a better set of
men. He had come here to carry out
Confederation. He thought that was
the far most important question before
the country. He believed that the union
of the Provinces would be of a great
benefit to New Brunswick. It wouldlesd
to the construction of the inter-Colonial
Railway. to the opening up of the country and its advancement in wealth arid
progress. Notwithstanding all that had
been said against the Quebec Scheme, it
was better than no scheme at all. If the
Government were not prepared with a
better measure, better let them accept
the Quebec Scheme at once.
A great deal had been said about the
staffing process, and about delegations.
He could not see for what object the delegation was sent to England. The delegates,
he thought, must have crossed the
water just to have a good time. He did
not think the money of the country
should be wasted in that manner. The
£800 that delegation had coat would
have made a very large piece of bye-
road. He considered it a very useless
expenditure. He thought that the Railway contract which the Attorney General
said would be of such vast benefit to the
Province, could have been made without
the delegation. In making the contract,
the delegates had agreed to give more
than the $10,000 a mile for which they
had no authority. In closing up, he
would say that he hardly thought that
the Government were prepared to bring
in a scheme of Confederation. If they
did bring in a measure. he should be reluctantly obliged to vote against them.
MR. YOUNG said he felt some embarrassment in addressing the House
upon this question, inasmuch as he differed with some of the anti-Confederate
members, who were elected, as he was,
to oppose the Quebec Scheme, and also
inasmuch as he differed with some of
the members representing the Northern
Counties. The question that was now
before the House was, whether the
Government was entitled to the confidence of the Representatives of the
people or not. lf the Government was
entitled to the confidence of the House,
it would be his duty, and that of the hon.
members to support them, and if they
(the Government) were not entitled to
the confidence of the House, it would be
his duty, and that of hon. members, to
turn them out.
The position of many of his hon.
friends who represent the Northern
Counties was entirely different to his.
Many of them were elected to support
the Quebec Scheme, and having been
returned to support that scheme they
cannot very well do otherwise than oppose the policy of the present Government. His
position on the question of
Confederation was just the reverse; he
was elected by the electors of his County
to oppose the Quebec Scheme, he put
it in his election card, he declared it on
the hustings, and he was here today
to carry out, in good faith, the pledge
that he had made to the electors of
Gloucester. Had he changed his mind
on this important subject, had he felt
convinced since his election that the
views he entertained twelve months ago
(with reference to the scheme) were erroneous, he would have considered it
his duty, as a matter of fair play and
54 DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866.
justice to his constituents. to resign his
seat and allow them the privilege of
again giving an expression of their
opinion on the Quebec Scheme; this, he
thought would be much better than for
him to advocate a measure that they
sent him to oppose. (Hear, hear.) But
he would tell this House that he had
not changed his mind in reference to
Confederation : he was as much opposed
to the Quebec. Scheme now as he was
when he was elected twelve months
ago; he was as determined to vote
against it now as he was when he came
here last session, and in doing so he
was doing neithcr more nor less than
carrying out the views and the wishes
of his constituents. When hon. members talked about the influences that
were used at the last general election,
he could tell them that he had not forgot
the influences—the Canadian influences
— that were used in the Northern
Counties. The hon. member from
Victoria (Mr. Costigan) alluded the
other day to the Canadian official that
came into his County during the elec-
tion, enquiring about the prices of lime,
railway sleepers, and material for con-
structing the Inter-Colonial Railway ; he
could tell his hon. friend, and he could he
tell the House, that this influence was
used in the Northern Counties also,
he was glad to say that in his County
the Canadian influence did not succeed.
It had been stated that the Times ad-
vocates the Quebec Scheme; that the
Colonial Secretary, Mr. Cardwell, is
strongly in favor of Confederation,
and that Her Majesty the Queen
is anxious to see the British North
American Provinces united. He
(Mr. Young) had not the slightest
doubt about this, he knew that Union
was desirable, and he had no objections
to a Union of the Provinces, provided
the interests of New Brunswick were
protected; otherwise he would not consent to Union. With the permission of
the House he would read an article he
had copied from the Times some time
ago, in which that paper criticised the
Quebec Scheme, viz. :—
" But the most important clause in
the whole Resolution, and unfortunately by no means the easiest to under-
stand, is the one which defines the
powers of the Central Federative Legislation. By Resolution 29. the General.
Parliament shall have power to make
laws for the peace, welfare and good
government of the Federated Provinces, owning the Sovereignty of England and especial
laws respecting the
following subjects. Then follow thirty-
six heads of legislation, and a thirty-
seventh which is as follows: And
generally respecting all matters of a
general character not specially and exclusively reserved for the Local Govern-
ments and Legislations. We cannot
find that the Local Legislatures have
any exclusive power of legislation given
them. They have power, by the 43rd
Resolution, to make laws respecting
seventeen subjects, the eighteenth being: - And generally matters of a private or
local nature, not assigned to the
General Parliament. It is exceedingly
difficult to construe these provisions.
First, general powers of legislation are
given especially to make laws on thirty-
seven subjects, one of those being all
matters of a general character, not exclusively reserved to the Local Legisla
tures. Nothing is exclusively reserved to Local Legislatures, and it would seem, therefore,
that the effect of this clause is to cut the power of Central Legislation down to
matters of a general character -- a most vague and unsatisfactory definition, and
one sure, if it be retained, to produce conflict and confusion.
He (Mr. Young) stated that this was an extract from the London Times, which he had found in the St. John Telegraph, of the 7th Dec., 1964, which paper, he believed, was opposed to Union at that time,
but, from some cause of other that he did not know, had since gone over. If the opinion
of the Times was worthy of consideration, and if its statement in reference to the Quebec Scheme
was reliable, it went to prove that the scheme was nothing but a mass of confusion,
and in his opinion we ought to reject it, and should not adopt it under any consideration.
These were his views with regard to the scheme, and it was surely his duty as an opponent
of thises scheme to spuport this Government. Unless it could be shown that they had
not discharged their duty faithfully, or been recreant to their duty, he would support
them; he had no hesitation in stating that he believed this Government had carried
on the administration of the country in accordance with the well understood wishes
of the people, and, therefore, were entitled to the confidence and support of honorable
members.
His hon. friend from Restigouche (Mr. McMillan) the other day, in complaining that
the Northern Counties had not sufficient representation in the Government, stated:
"How could any member from the North Shore support them or vote for them." He (Mr.
Young) would tell the hon. member that he had not desire to ignore the right of the
people of the North Shore from being represented at the Executive Council Board, and
he did think that the Northern Counties ought to have more represenation in the Government
than they have at present. But he would ask the hon. member in what position had the
North placed itself on the question of Confederation? Take the Counties of Restigouche,
Northumberland and Gloucester, and what would they find? They would find that out
of thirty members elected at the last general election to oppose the Quebec Scheme,
and the three Counties that he had just named had sent but three anti-Confederates,
vis: the hon. Mr. Hutchinson, his colleague (Mr. Meehan) and himself. The former was
called ot the Executive; and without knowing the intentions of the Government in the
matter, he would undertake to say that, if they had been disposed to take his colleague
or himself into the Government, it could not have been done in consequence of the
Scrutiny that was pending against them. He (Mr. Young) referred to this to show hon.
members from the Northern Counties that if the people of the North Shore had not the
representation in the Government that they ought to have, they have only themselves
to blame. And, while he was upon this subject, he would do the Hon. Mr. Hutchison
the justice to say that, notwithstanding the abuse that gentleman had received from
a portion of the Opposition press, and notwithstanding the remarks, the other day,
of the ex- Surveyor General, that he (Mr. Hutchison) had no political experience,
and, con
sequently, was unfit to represent the
North Shore alone. He would tell the
hon. member that the interests of the
Northern Counties during the past year
had not been neglected. They had received just as much money for their bye
roads, and great roads, and public works
as when the late Government were in
power. He (Mr. Young) had not forgot
that, during the years 1863 and 1884,
how difficult it was to get a steamer for
the North Shore; that notwithstanding
all the political experience and ingenuity
of his hon. friend the ex-Surveyor General, it could not be done. The people's
representatives were put off from time to
time by being told that a steamer could
not be got—that they were all down South
during the war. But how did it happen
that the Acadia was not engaged ? She
wes built by a company at Sorel, in Canada, expressly with a view of being put on
the North Shore; but the Government of
which his hon. friend was a member
would not engage her. He (Mr. Young)
referred to this to shew that when the
North was represented by gentlemen who
claimed to possess great political knowledge, the local requirements of the North
were not better attended to then than
they are now.
With reference to the charges that had
been made against this Government by
the leader of the Opposition and his followers, he could only say that they were
not sustained; it was not necessary for
him to refer to them, for they had been ably
answered by the Attorney General and
the Provincial Secretary. He believed
the Opposition have been premature in
their movements; they want to turn out
the Government before they have time to
lay belore this House an account of their
stewardship; they do not want to wait
until the reports from the several heads of
Departments are laid on the table.
Their cry is, "Turn them out. turn them
out, they are a parcel of loafers and
traitors." And in their great anxiety to
turn them out they have acted imprudently, and if the term was not unparliamentary)
had acted like office seekers,
and he had no doubt they (the Opposition) had brought upon themselves the
indignation of every lover of fair play
and justice in the country. He would
vote against the amendment.
MR. WILLISTON said, before going
into the general questions he would
touch upon a few of the matters that had
come up during the course of the debate.
A great deal of irrelevant matter had been
thrown into the discussion, and a great
deal said about the York election. but he
could not see what that had to do with
the question. It seemed to him the
whole aim of Mr. Fisher's colleagues was
to break him down. The Hon. Chief
Commissioner had, in his speech, directed the weight of his attack against that
gentleman and he had been followed by
his friend Mr. Fraser, who had also attacked Mr. Fisher with great severity
and acrimony. He thought that it would
be much more dignified if the members of
York had settled their disputes about the
election outside, and not have brought
them before the Legislature. He was
very sorry that the Provincial Secretary
for whom he personally had the greatest,
regard, and in whom he had unbounded
confidence, should so far have forgotten
his dignity as to have thrown the weight
of his position on the side of the attack
against Mr. Fisher. Mr. Fisher he had
always found courteous, kind and affable.
DEBATES OF HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866. 55
He did not stand there as Mr. Fisher's
apologist, for he was perfectly well able
to take care of himself. but it was due to
the position he (Mr. W. held, and to the
country, that he should not use such
language as would bring disgrace upon
the halls of the Legislature. If Mr.
Gladstone, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, attacked any member of the
Imperial Parliament in the way the Provincial Secretary had attacked Mr.
Fisher, it would raise such a whirl of indignation throughout England as was
never raised before. Another point that
had been taken up by his hon. friends the
members of York, (the Hon. Mr.
Hathaway and Mr. Fraser), was that the
Opposition in their County had attempted
to excite class against class, and raise the
fires of religious hatred. If that were
true, he had not language strong enough
to denounce those who attempted to take
that course. He would be derelict to his
dutv if he did not stand up and condemn
it. The man who attempted to raise the
firebrand of religious strife and class
hatred in this mixed community, ought to
be looked upon as a moral criminal,
and shunned by every honorable
man. ln this community they had
all equal rights, they were nearly
as possible for men to on an equality, and it was the duty of all to promote good
feeling, and not to disturb
the concord and harmony that had hitherto
always prevailed. Mr. Willtston then
proceeded to speak to the general question the mode the Quebec Scheme
placed before the people. The
late Government had thought proper to
dissolve the Legislature before submitting the Scheme. He differed with them
upon that point, for he thought they
ought first to have brought the scheme
before the Legislature, and there thoroughly ventilated the subject, and then
gone to the country, when the people
would have been better prepared to
pronounce upon it. But that was merely a question of policy. There was no
doubt that they would have to proceed
and consolidate the country. New
Brunswick, as it stood alone, was a most
insignificant place, and while it remained
a community by itself. would always remain so. What was the great object of
Confederation but to throw down the
barriers that hemmed the Province in,
and allow them to unite with a larger
people; and would any one say that the
great and prosperous Canada was not a
country they would be willing to be united to? He was there as a Confederate
and to support the principle of Confederation. At a large meeting in Chatham, he publicly
enunciated his principles
on that great question. and had pronounced without fear, favor, or hopes of personal
aggrandizement, his judgment.
Though he came to the House a Confederate and though the Government
was formed on anti-Confederate basis,
he had felt that as there was a Conservative element in it, he would sustain the Government
on every point except Confederation. He felt that it was his duty to support them,
and he had done so to the best of his ability. But what did they did when the House
rose. They found that some of the members of the Government went to England. In their
absence his colleagues drew up the Minutes of Council of which so much has been said.
He
objected to that Minute on several points.
(Here the hon. member quoted the Minute and commented upon it.) He thought it most
undignified and unstatesmanlike in a grave official document to quote from a newspaper.
England dealt with the question of union as a national question. It appeared to be
the disposition of the British Government that the Colonies should unite. (Mr. Williston,
he referred to the New Zealand Colonies, and also to the Cape of Good Hope Colonies
as cases in point. In the latter, Caffraria had been united by Imperial legislation.)
The mother country was anxious tha tthe North American Colonies should adopt the scheme,
and also had a right to make them if she though proper. They had a right to suppose,
if the British Government wished to unite these Provinces, that it was their interests
and general interests of the Empire. Was the British Government bound, he would ask,
to protect them? Was the mother country bound to throw her ægis around these Provinces?
Was she bound to defned them if, when she said that her policy was union, they refused
to obey, and unite? When they looked at the position of these Colonies, and considered
from whom their protection came, had the British Government not the right to say to
them that they must unite for the general interest? What was their situation? The
found they had upon their borders a restless and aggressive people, who were now amongst
the first military nations of the world, and whose constant dream it had been to
make this Continent a vast republic. the British people saw what might arise -- they
wished to remain on the most friendly terms with the Americans; they had no wish to
fight; but they saw that the time might come, and they said to the Colonies: "consolidate,
unite under one strong general government." If union took place, they might possibly
send out a Viceroy. He said that the Minute of Council, in standing in the way of
the general interests of the Empire, was not based on a correct political principle;
and that Minute was not based upon political principles. It did not give an exposition
of the sentiments of the people, when it said that the majority were opposed to any
closer union with Canada. He believed that they were not opposed, and the Minute did
not even speak the mind of the Government, for what did they find the leader of the
Government saying that he would be willing to go for a scheme of Union based on equitable
principles, and that would advance the interests of the country. If the Government
were not favorable to Union, why did they not come down with a scheme. They had told
the people in the speech from the throne that they were in favor of a Union, yet they
did not advance any scheme. When they told the country they were in favor of Union
they either did it to perpetuate their own power, or for some other reason. He was
opposed to the Government on Confederation. He was also opposed to the Government
because the the North Shore was not [?] vernment. He was opposed because the interests of the North were ignored at the
in North a vernment chison in the Council; if the truth were known he believed he
(Mr. H.) was
promised a seat before the Government
were formed. He was not going to disparage Mr. Hutchison, he was known
to be a first rate business man, a man of
good capacity and standing, but possess-
of no political experience or attainments; and the interests of the North
were ignored when the Govemment
passed over the other anti-Confederate
members. His hon. friend Mr. Young,
had defended the Government, and said
they could not have taken either himself
or his colleague (Mr. Meahan) into the
Council because there was a scrutiny
against them. But was there not a scrutiny against Mr. Hutchinson whenhe was
taken into the Government, was there
not a charge against him of the gravest
kind? Mr. Williston then proceeded to
say that he had been seven yars in the
House, battling against a Liberal Administration, yet they had given the
North Shore a fair shake at the Council Board. But what had the present
Government done for the North? They
had placed in the Government a gentleman who had no large amount of administrative
experience, a gentleman
unable to cope with his colleagues when
questions attacking its interests came
up. His hon. friend, Mr. Young. had
stated that the interests of the North
Shore had not been neglected by the
present Government, that it had received as much school money and bye-
road money, and great road money as it had
formerly received. But the people of the
North Shore could not thank the Government for that. There appropriations were
rights that no Government could take away,
and deserved no t thanks for conceding.
What the North had reason to complain of
was that their interests had not been properly attended to; that they had not a
greater representation at the Council Board.
The Government policy he proceeded to say
would be disastrous to the North. Its interests hnd not been sufficiently served,
and on that, at one ground. he would vote
for the Amendment.
The question had been raised had the
Government done their duty about the Export Duty Law. He was not going to condemn
that oversight, but was willing to forgive them. It was certainly an oversight
which might have taken from the revenues of this Province $60,000, had it been
discovered by the exporters of lumber.
Fortunately for the position of the Province
and the revenues, such had not been discovered and the mistake had been rectified
by the unanimous vote of the House. ln
his mind highly creditable to it. In such a
case, faction might lead to injurious consequences, and he felt delighted that the
representatives of the people have risen above
party. and corrected what appeared to have
been an unintentional oversight.
With regard to the charge against the
Government regarding the disposal of the
Crown Lands to Mr. Gibson, he would not
condemn the Governnitnt for that act. He
only wished that there were a number of
people, with plenty of money in their hands,
who would come into the country, and take
up the wilderness lands of the Province. If
there was a Gibson junior about, they would
be glad to see him in Northumberland. As
[?] Reciprocity Treaty that had expired? He had been told there were a num
56 DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866.
ber of gentlemen in New York and
Boston who were buying up large quantities of all the articles that came into the
Province duty free. He had understood that
the Government did not intend to collect
duties on those articles that before the Reciprocity Treaty were subjected to a duty
of
3 per cent. St. John would soon be flooded
with articles and not pay a cent of duty.
But let it be supposed that the Govsmment
did impose duty on these articles, the Southern part of the Province would get them
duty free. St. John being an open port,
while the people of the North would have to
pay duty. Such a policy would not be tolerated were the Northern Counties properly
represented at the Council Board.
MR. FRASER. - Did not flour come into
the Province, duty free, before Reciprocity.
MR. WILLISTON. - He would vote
against putting a duty on flour, beef. &c.
He would like to know what the Government intended 'to do.
Mr. WILLISTON was glad to hear that,
yet it would be necessary to put a protective
duty on certain articles in order to checkmate the American Government, should
they put a heavy duty on exports. He was
not going further into the charges against
the Government. He had already stated the
grounds on which he stood against them. The
moment he read their Minute of Council he
made up his mind to oppose them. He was
opposed to them also for the reason that the
Government, as at present constituted, did
not sufficiently represent the interests of the
North. He regretted very much that he
should have to vote against the Government.
For individual members of it he felt great
respect. He had always been on the most
friendly terms and had received the greatest
kindness rrom the Attorney General, the
Surveyor General, and the Provincial Secretary. He felt very great reluctance to
vote against them ; but conscientiously
believing that Confederation would advance
the interests of the country. and believing
that the Government were not prepared to
bring in a scheme, he should therefore, vote.
for the amendment.
The House then adjourned over until
Monday, at 10 o'clock.
MONDAY, MARCH 26.
The Bill to amend the Act to incorporate the Albert. County Railway Company .