AFTERNOON SESSION.
Hon. Mr. TILLEY moved the House into Committee of the Whole to grant Supply to Her Majesty—Mr. Stevens
in the Chair.
Mr. SMITH objected to going into Supply till the Estimates had been printed and laid before
the House. He was not in the House when the statement was brought in this morning,
and did not know what changes had been made. It was always the custom to have the
Finan
cial Statement printed before going into Committee.
Hon. Mr. TILLEY said that in 1857, although the Session was a long one and no especial cause to hurry
business on, the Estimates were not printed at all. It was necessary, however, to
get through as speedily as possible. The changes made were few and very simple, and
he would make a statement. If any discussion arose they could report progress. The
Financial Statement was in the hands of the printer, and would be ready to-morrow
morning.
Mr. SMITH had no objections to the Committee going on and passing the General Estimates.
Hon. Mr. TILLEY then moved a series of Resolutions that Supply be granted to Her Majesty :
1st. That a sum of $22,707 be granted for the expenses of the Legislature.
2nd. That a sum of $540 be granted for the expenses of the Courts.
3rd. That a sum of $29,030 be granted for the Collection and Protection of the Revenue.
4th. That a sum of $13,980 be granted for the purposes of Education.
There had been an increase made in this amount. The Roman Catholic School at Newcastle
was put down at $300, and a Classical School in St. John $200. These were the only
changes made from last year.
Mr. SMITH asked if the school at Memramcook was to receive a grant ? That school was in a very
efficient state, having some eighty-five or ninety pupils in attendance, most of whom
were French, although there were some English as well. They formerly received a grant,
but for some time it was withdrawn, but now it was really a capital institution, and
they should get a grant of $600 as originally.
Hon. Mr. TILLEY said the late Government had decided to make a grant of $400, and they had put it
down at that sum. A petition had been received and was on file from Rev. Mr. LeFevre,
praying that it might be increased to $600, but the petition did not put the matter
very strong, and it was left at $400.
Mr. SMITH said the school was more efficient than ever, and he was sure the House would be
willing to increase the grant to $600.
Mr. LINDSAY said that the Roman Catholic school at Woodstock was in a very efficient state, but
they have only got a grant of one hundred dollars. He was glad that now it had been
increased to three hundred dollars. The school had chiefly been supported by the clergymen.
The amount of good effected and the state of efficiency should be the grounds of making
apportionments. That school had seventy or eighty pupils.
Mr. SMITH said the school at Memramcook was presided over by five or six able professors, and
he hoped the House would allow an increase of two hundred dollars to be made.
Hon. Mr. TILLEY explained that no increase could be made, but the House could, if they thought proper,
refuse to make so large an expenditure as that submitted. If the money was to be appropriated
in proportion to efficiency and the number of pupils, he though, as some schools,
with sixty or seventy, only got three hundred dollars, for a school with eight-five
pupils four hundred dollars would be sufficient.
Mr. KERR thought that returns should be handed in by the schools showing their state, and
that they should also show how many free scholars received instruction, before the
grant should issue. The Chatham Academy instructs some twelve poor children free of
expense.
Hon. Mr. TILLEY said the returns were handed in much more regularly now than formerly and these were
compared with the reports of the Inspectors. He thought the idea of hon. member for
Northumberland with regard to free children a good one.
Mr. KERR asked if these schools get Provincial grants as well as these special amounts.
Hon. Mr. TILLEY replied that a few do, but in these cases the amount granted was very small.
Mr. SMITH again appealed to the House to have the grant increased $200, and if not complied
with he should move for the papers relating to the matter to be laid before the House.
Some other members expressed their opinions on the subject, after which the original
sum of $400 was granted.
5th Resolution. That a sum of $200 be granted for the encouragement of the Fisheries.
6th. That a sum of $6500 be granted for Provincial Penitentiary.
This was the same amount as he found in the estimates prepared by Mr. Gilmore, and
he knew that this Establishment could not be carried on at so low a rate as formerly.
There was a large number of inmates and provisions were very much higher in price.
There was a deficiency and debentures had to be issued for $3500. He thought it best
to have the amount required put in the estimates at once, than to have to provide
for it afterwards.
Mr. KERR thought this one of the most unsatisfactory grants made. When Commissioners were
appointed it was supposed that the expenses of the Institution would be very much
decreased, but instead of that a debt had accumulated, and instead of clearing that
off when gold was at a high rate of premium, it had
DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866. 65
been allowed to remain until gold was down
Then a large number of cases were sent from the Police Court of Saint John, and
extra expenses were incurred on that account.
Hon. Mr. TILLEY said that certainly calculations had been made that the appointment of Commissioners
would prove beneficial but they were not realized. There seemed to be a fatality in
connection with that building. Just as they had got ready to do something a fire broke
out and destroyed the work shops and machinery, and for a long time nothing was done.
The machinery could not be got from the States. Cornbroom too was high, but with that
they did a little better. Everything, however, appeared to be all right now, and hopes
were entertained that matters would work more satisfactory. The reason why the debt
was not reduced when gold was high was that at that time there was a large expenditure
for machinery, and now they would have to do the best they could. He agreed with the
hon. member from Northumberland that there are offenders sent there who should not
be. Men and boys sent for 40 or 60 days who have to mingle with old offenders, and
besides this it is almost impossible to make their labor very profitable.
Mr. SMITH thought the prodecessors
of the late Government did not look into the management of the Institution as they
should have done. They found on coming into office many things that were very bad.
Mr. Cruikshank was giving his notes to raise money and these were floating about the
City. He believed when the debt in the States was
contracted gold was 250, and it could have been paid off at a discount of a hundred per cent.
He hoped matters would be improved under the present management. They had appointed
Mr. Gilbert as one of the Commissioners and he believed he did his work well. Mr.
Gilmor and Mr.
Anglin had also given much time and attention to the Institution.
HON. Mr. TILLEY proceeded to move
the 7th REsolution. That a sum of $18,000 be granted for teh Lunatic Asylum.
The sum had previously been $16,000,
but taking into consideration the increased number of inmates and the high price of
provisions it was found it could not be done for less than the sum he had put down.
There were now 209 attendants and the building was quite free.
Mr. KERR thought the friends of the
patients should be required to assist in their support. At one time they paid in sums
ÂŁ800 or ÂŁ900, but now that sum is reduced some 50 per cent. This was the only way
to keep the increased grant down and if the remedy could be applied it should be done.
HON. Mr. TILLEY said there was no
doubts that the friends should contribute to the support of the patients, but the
way matters were, it could not well be remedied. It was proposed that each County
should give a certain amount, but they all knew how that such a measure would be hard
to get though the House. It was, therefore, thought best to take it out of the general
revenues.
8th. That $1200 be granted for teh
relief of the Indians.
9th. That $30,000 be granted for the
Militia and apprehension of deserters.
10th. That $20,000 be granted for the
Post Office deficiency.
11th. That $65,000 be granted for the
Great Roads of the Province and the Bridges thereon.
Last year the sum was $70,000, but
$10,000 was required to pay an instalment on the Petitcodiac Bridge, leaving $60,000.
There were some improvements to be made which would require about $5000 more.
Mr. KERR thought that full particulars fo teh expenditure of this sum should be laid before
the House.
Mr. SMITH said it appeared that the
Board of Works had taken charge of the County of Westmorland. They had removed Supervisors
and replaced them by men not nearly so capable as those removed. He referred to teh
action of the late Government and challenged the representatives to say that his Government
had displaced a man unless he had been a violent partisan. Even in Albert County they
did not disturb the present Chief Commissioner's brother who held an office in that
County. He saw by the
Royal Gazette that the Post Master at Sackville had resigned, and the Government had appointed
a Mr. Dixon in his place without saying one word to the members about it. He thought
the Government should have acted on the principle adopted by the late Government to
leave alone officers who had showed their efficiency and fitness for the situations
they held.
Hon. Mr. McMILLAN said the late
Government had appointed a Supervisor in Restigouche in opposition to the advice
of his colleague and himself. He had
no objections to the party appointed receiving some office, but he was not physically
able to attend ot the duties required of him, so another man had to do the work and
both got paid.
Mr. SMITH supposed that reference was made to the appointment of Mr. Montgomery as Supervisor,
and the Postmaster-General had spoken to him and said he should be happy if anything
could be done for Mr. Montgomery.
HON. Mr. McMILLAN assented to
this, but said the office to which he was
appointed was unsuited to him from the
fact that he was not able bodily to perform the duties.
Mr. SMITH said neither under the
late Government or when teh Provincial Secretary and he were together in the same
Government could anyone pont to cases where removals had been made and others appointed
without consulting with members. He thought the men who had the expenditure of the
pubic money should be those best able to attend to the duties.
Mr. DesBRISAY rose to confirm the
statement of his colleague. They did speak to the ex-President of teh Council and
said they should like to see Mr. Montgomery get some office, but tnot that situation.
He sent in an applicatino over his own name to have him appointed
Registrar of Deeds and Wills.
Mr. SMITH said that would have involved the displacement of Mr. Barbarie.
Mr. DesBRISAY replied for that very purpose he had brough in a Bill that no practising Barrister
should hold that office, yet after the Bill passed, Mr. Barbarie was not removed,
and so they appointed Mr. Montgomery to the office of Supervisor.
Mr. HIBBARD said the late Government were so short a time in office that it could hardly be known
what they would have done if they had remained longer. He took the stand that if a
man holding a public office was a violent political partizan, those who cam into power
would not be acting a manly part if they did not remove him. He did not like to see
a man eating out of the political crib all his life while as good a man as he stood
by looking on. Some officers seemed to think their situations were created just for
them and must be handed down to their children. He thought more should share in the
favor of the Government than now do.
Mr. LEWIS said it was well known that he and his colleague worked hard against the late Government,
yet he would do them teh justice to say they did not make a single displacement in
the County of Albert.
Mr. YOUNG said he did not care how many the Government urned out as long as they put in men
who were just as good.
HON. Mr. TILLEY proceeded to move the 12th REsolution. That $45,000 be granted for Bye roads.
These resolutions having passed the Committee, itw as deemed advisable to go no further
till teh printed Estimates were before the House, and therefore progress was reported
to all against to-morrow at 11 A.M.
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