DEBT TO MR. BREWSTER
Mr. Masson (Soulanges) asked whether it was the
intention of the Government to place in the Estimates a sum for the payment
of the [...]
389
[...] in a V—shaped course. The recent explorations of
Mr. Bell showed that the Belt was broken by a great gap of unascertained width
in which the Nipigon country was situated. Thus instead of the barrier
Laurentian region supposed to exist, forming an insuperable barrier to civilization,
there was a moderately level country, fertile, suitable for
settlement and affording great facilities for railway construction. After
describing the geological character of different districts he said it
was through the Silurian country north of Lake Superior. Mr. Bell considered there
was an easy route for a railway by Black Sturgeon River to Lake
Nipigon, thence by Gull River to Lonely Lake, by English and Winnipeg
Rivers to the prairie country of Red River. It had been generally supposed,
from a want of the proper information, that the country north of Lake
Superior was of a broken and barren character, and unfit for settlement, and as
a means of communication with the West Prairie country. Such
an idea would tend to the impression that the only safe and natural
inlet to the North-West was through the Minnesota country. But recent
explorations prove this formidable range of mountains to have no great
breadth, and that to the north there lies a vast level country of
clayey formation, extending in the direction of Hudson's Bay. The importance
of such discoveries, both as regarded the probable capabilities of
the country for agricultural purposes, and the facilities for making a
suitable route of communication, could not be over-estimated. It was
well known that in the region of the Laurentian the surface was rough,
rugged, covered with numerous irregular shaped grades, separated by
ranges of barren rock wholly unfit for settlement, and presenting the most
formidable difficulties to the economical construction of any
communication with the inner country. But in the Silurian country, the
elevations and depressions were fewer, the lakes larger, and the
leading characteristics such as would warrant the supposition that a good
route could be made through it at a moderate outlay, and the adjacent
country be at once ready for settlement. The line under construction by Mr.
Dawson, might be rendered available, as a temporary way to the
North-West, but recent accounts would go to show that the permanent
route would be found to the North of the Thunder Bay region, where,
in all probability, the lesser summit would be met with. It was of vast
importance that a route should be continuous, so that frequent
trans-shipment should, as far as possible, be avoided. It would be well,
if any improvement projected were made, to form a link in the railway
system which must sooner or later extend through British Territory
from the Atlantic to the Pacific. It appeared to him that a mixed canal and
road system
390 COMMONS DEBATES March 14, 1870
would not meet the wants of the country, but if it
should be decided to carry such a system out, he thought the proposed location
was not the proper one, for it was in the wrong place, and had the
great disadvantage of having one of the canal termini fully 800 feet above the
level of Lake Superior—whereas it would be found that by taking the
Nipigon route, the whole lockage between Superior and Winnipeg would
not equal that required between Shebandowan and Thunder Bay. Such being the
case, he thought that vigourous measures should be adopted without
great delay to explore the country lying to the west of Lake Nipigon, and
that efforts should be made to obtain, at least, an approximately
correct idea of the geography of English River, Lount Lake, and to determine
the lowest summit between the waters discharging into the Winnipeg
and those flowing into Superior. The north shore of Lake Superior was
from 1,300 to 1,500 feet high, and the summit on the boundary line (Arrow
Lake) was 1,050 feet above its surface. Shebandowan Lake in Dawson's
report was stated to be 810 feet above Lake Superior, and Dog Lake 718
feet. That pointed out a marked descending series, and from what was known of
the country to the north, it was reasonable to suppose that a
comparatively level line could be obtained at a much less elevation. In fact,
said he, everything pointed to the conclusion that it was in the
Nipigon country where we should look for a route that would fulfil the
required conditions, afford a rapid passage from the great lakes to the
interior of the North-West, as well as a means of export for the soon to be
developed agricultural wealth of that country—whilst it would at the
same time form a link in the large scheme of an Inter-oceanic Railway
on British soil. The streams of Oriental commerce, so long in the hands of
European nations, and carried round the Cape of Good Hope, and across
the Isthmus of Suez, have already been tapped by the pioneer line of
American steamers from San Francisco to Yokohama and Shanghai. The tonnage of
San Francisco alone increased from 765,900 tons in 1866, to 901,400
tons in 1867. The number of passengers arriving in 1867 was 38,800, was
nearly equalled by the aggregate of the first half of 1868, being 32,000. The
opinion ardently expressed in scientific quarters is that the entire
passage from London to Yokohama, through New York and San Francisco, will be
reduced to the time required for a voyage across the Pacific, about
three weeks. The trade of China and the neighbouring islands, amounts
to $300,000,000 per annum, which was chiefly, in former times, in European
hands, but is now rapidly passing into the neighbouring Republic.
Through the principle established in the Illinois Central of land
concessions
391
in aid of Railroads, a system of railroads has
been inaugurated, giving an untold impulse to
industrial and commercial activity. Looking to
eventualities, England, although she has in
India an army of 150,000 troops, of whom 70,000
are English, yet her main hope in the reconstruction of Indian civilization and the
consolidation of her Indian Empire, was by the construction of a magnificent system
of railroads,
involving an expenditure of $440,000,000. Thus
civilization is radiated downwards through a
strata of ignorance and superstition, forming a
unique political and social organism, the first
Colonial Empire of the world. What is thus
accomplished for Hindoostan, towards making
a market for her products by railway communication, is only an evidence of what such
a
communication would bring about for the
North-West Territory. It is by the establishment of railway communication, the warp
and
woof alone of Dominion consolidation, that we
will ever be enabled to place our industrial and
commercial interests upon a substantial footing, and secure at the same time the permanency
of our institutions.
Mr. Simpson (Algoma) said, this was a subject
in which he felt deep interest, inasmuch as the country referred to was
within his constituency. Last session he brought this matter
before the attention of the House, and had urged on Government the
importance, as a first step, of a survey of the country from the North
shore of Lake Superior to the Ottawa River. He was glad to find that
favourable statements respecting Nipigon territory made by the last
speaker were fully confirmed by the evidence of Professor Bell before the
Investigation Committee; and he would add that his own opinion
of this country had always been in accordance with these statements.
During last summer some of the officers of the Board of Works were
sent to examine into the state of works going on from Fort William,
westward. The Reports of these officers had not yet been published, but from information
he had himself received on that point, he was
certain that this Dawson route, as it was called, would prove a huge
failure, On that point he had not the slightest doubt. In the first place,
the levels had been very inaccurately estimated. One of the largest
dams ever built in this country would have to be built at the mouth of the
Mattawa River. The dimensions of it were something enormous—half a
mile long and in many places 60 feet high. Further, he had been
informed that in that part of the country, there was no clay with which to
"puddle" the works, and then when completed, instead of costing
392
COMMONS DEBATES
March 14, 1870 $12,000, as estimated, it would cost not
less than twelve millions; and the lockage along that route would
alone cost more than the amount estimated for the completion of the
whole works. From information he had received he was satisfied that in that
section there were only three or four months' navigation a
year. The inland lakes did not break up in spring till much later than Lake
Superior broke up. The country there was frostbound, and he had been
informed by surveyors who had returned from there that they were obliged
to give up the work on the 12th of October. Such a route was no way
through which to take emigrants. He was satisfied that that route
would never be completed, and that the Nipigon route would finally have to
be selected. The Dawson route was through a succession of swampy lands, interspersed
with small lakes and rocky hills, and
it would be impossible to make a railroad through it. Nearly all
the ranges of hills were not parallel to the watercourses, as usual,
but across it, and therefore it was unfit for railways. From what
he had been informed he was assured that the Nipigon territory was far
superior to this both for railways and canals, as well as for agricultural purposes.
He trusted, therefore, that the Government
would send out officers in the spring to examine that territory as well as
the Dawson route, so that the merits of both might be known and
compared. He had nothing specially to say against the gentleman in
charge of the works on the Dawson route, but he had been informed that
if they had been done by contract, the cost would have been much less.
There was a general impression abroad, that portions of the road were
completed so that troops, ammunition and provisions could be sent to
Red River by that way in spring. That was altogether a mistake, and he had
no doubt that if troops were sent there they would have to be sent by
the old Hudson's Bay Company's canoe route. The only way to hold the Red
River country was by sending in a large emigration, and also
a detachment of troops to keep order in the territory. He had been in that
territory at the time when the 6th Regiment was there, and during that
time there was no disturbance, and settlers were on the best of terms
with the troops. But when there were no troops there whenever a disturbance
broke out, no matter what class of the population caused it, they had
the law entirely in their own hands, and the Hudson's Bay Company had no
means of asserting their authority; and if tomorrow our Government was
to make peaceful arrangements with the delegates, now said
to be on their way from Red River, there was no way of holding that country,
except by keeping a standing force there, and by sending a large
number of immigrants there. If we did
393
not do that, Americans would. He had seen letters from prominent men in the
United States, including officers of the army, which were to the
effect, that it was the intention of the United States, if Riel held out
till spring, to send into that country an overpowering number of
immigrants from the United States, the result of which would be, that in the
first meeting of an independent Parliament, they would vote themselves
into the United States, and we would never secure that country except
by war. He would repeat in conclusion that the only way to secure that
territory was to open up communication with it through Canadian
territory as speedily as possible, so that emigration could flow
into that country, and to furnish the place with sufficient force to maintain order,
(cheers).
Hon. Mr. Langevin said he had no objection to the
passage of the motion. The hon. gentlemen must, however,
understand that some delay may take place in bringing down these
reports. The principle was not as yet before the Government. They will have
to be laid before the Council, after which they would be brought down,
It being six o'clock the House rose.
After recess,
Mr. Chamberlin resumed the debate. He said he believed
there was a very deep anxiety in the country that there should be a definite
and energetic policy pursued by the Government, so that this
portion of the Dominion would be rendered accessible to us. He believed
it was a settled opinion of members of this House and of the country
that this northern country must be bound to the Dominion by other than
purely political ties. One way of developing the resources of the country
would be to find a passage on British soil for a railway,
and the iron band of a railway would be much better for its defence than
fortresses, and would be much more valuable, if not less expensive,
than soldiers. We must have the means of access through our own country, and
there was deep feeling in the country in favour of the Government
adopting an energetic policy to secure the means of access at once.
They had heard how much had been done, or rather how little had been done,
to open the way from Lake Superior to Lake Winnipeg. They had heard
how difficult would be the passage by that route, especially for British
troops, whose presence would be necessary in case the troubles there
went any further; but it was manifest to those who had considered the
question, that if efficient means had been taken by the Government with
regard to com
394
COMMONS DEBATES
March 14, 1870munication, troops could have been sent
there at very much less expense. But it was very much better to give
means of access to that territory than to spend money for ammunition
and soldiers. And if an energetic policy had been pursued to give means of
transit thither, a great deal of trouble would have been saved. It
would have strengthened immensely the bonds of our negotiations to that
territory, and would not have rendered necessary the tiresome and
expensive process by which union would have to be effected. He, therefore,
urged upon the Government that not a single day was to be lost in
opening communication with that territory. He thought the
Government would be wise, if they learned from the experience of the
past that a more rigorous policy ought to be adopted in future.
Mr. Harrison spoke of the great importance of the
question, and said that a railway should be shortly commenced if Canada
meant to hold the Red River Territory. The best way to hold the
territory would be by peopling it with loyal British immigrants. Unless we
do so our American neighbours will people it with immigrants
of a more objectionable kind. To facilitate emigration a railway
is absolutely necessary. But in building it we should have regard
to existing railways and existing interests. Let us utilize existing
means of communication as far as possible and construct a railway from
the head of Lake Superior. If private enterprise be not adequate to such a
great undertaking, a course should be pursued similar to that taken by
the American Government with reference to the Pacific Railway. There should
be liberal grants of land in alternate blocks. By this means we shall
not only build a railway but settle the country. The contemplated wagon
road is not sufficient for purposes of settlement.
Mr. Bown said, if the road had been built he doubted
very much whether there would have been any riot at Red River, and he
pointed out that delegates to the convention there had also asked for
the construction of a railway to Canada, (hear, hear). Now when both ends
were asked for this mode of communication, he thought the Government
ought to take the earliest possible measures to ascertain the best
route for a railway, and liberal land grants ought to be given to any
company that would undertake the work.
Hon. Mr. Huntington said, a railway from the Atlantic
to the Pacific, over British territory, would do a great deal to
consolidate the Dominion, but from experience in the construc
395tion of
the Intercolonial, he could not expect anything remarkable from the Canadian
Government and went on to speak of the delay in its
construction.
Hon. Mr. Huntington had seen greater progress in other
railways and referred to the demoralization and difficulties with contractors of
the Intercolonial.
Hon. Mr. Huntington referred to the American
Pacific as an example of the rapid construction of a railway.
Hon. Mr. Huntington said, the greatest possible progress had not been made in the construction of the
Intercolonial, and if that were an example of Government construction, it
would be months and years before they would have a railway from the
Atlantic to the Pacific.
Hon. Mr. Huntington was glad to see a gentleman so
plucky and enthusiastic as the Minister of Militia. He then referred to the
enterprise of American capitalists who had obtained grants of fifty
million acres of land and were now hurrying up their Northern Pacific
road through, from Duluth to ports on the Pacific, and suggested that this
company might be induced to construct branches to Red River territory
which would render it accessible to immigrants, until a road was
constructed over Canadian soil.
Hon. Mr. Howe referred pleasantly to his former
relations with the hon. member for Shefford, on account of which he
controverted his opinions with some pain, but he conceived it to be
his duty to do so. His hon. friend had been chaffing the Government about
the delay in constructing the Intercolonial, but he forgot that we had
not the assistance of the Chinese, who built the Pacific Railway for our
neighbours.
Hon. Mr. Huntington asked if the hon. gentleman believed the administration of the Intercolonial road
creditable to
the Government.
396
Hon. Mr. Howe—It had been said the Intercolonial was for the benefit of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick
and not for
Ontario, but Ontario took an excellent way of indemnifying itself, for
Ontario contractors employed poor devils.
Hon. Mr. Howe apologized, and said they employed Blue
Noses, and then ran away and did not pay them. If this was not the way to
indemnify Ontario for expenditure on the Intercolonial, he did not
know what was. He then said communication must be had with the
North-West upon Canadian soil if they were going to hold that territory,
(hear, hear). He referred to the work of Americans in Minnesota in building railways,
and said if they did not obstruct settlers
going to Red River, it would be common sense to make use of their
means of communication, but if that was not the case we must have some means
of communication of our own. He had listened with pleasure
to the speeches of the honourable members for Russell and Algoma, who had
given much valuable information. This was not the time to discuss the
question, but he believed the Government would deal with it
satisfactorily, and that it would be ready to take counsel with hon.
gentlemen on the other side of the House, and devise the most rapid
and practicable means of connecting the whole Dominion and develop its
resources.
Hon. Mr. Connell would make a few observations on the subject now before the House. He stated that
they had had
an elaborate speech from the hon. member for Russell, speaking in
strong language with regard to the advantages that would be derived from
opening up communication with the North-West by Lake
Nipigon, and the value of the territory in that vicinity. No doubt the hon.
member for Russell felt and believed all he said with reference to that territory.
He (Mr. Connell) had endeavoured to obtain some
information on that subject. The Government had very properly sent out parties for
the purpose of obtaining information. That would
be shown when the papers came before the House. He (Mr. Connell) was impressed with
the idea that there were not sufficient
inducements to invite settlers to that district. If his idea of
that section of the country was correct, the soil and climate were not
inviting. There was no forest, and fires had laid waste the greater portion
of the district. The season was short, hence there was no inducement
for immigrants. The hon. member for Algoma had truthfully stated the
real state of things now taking place with regard to opening up
communication with the North-West. They were now informed that the
397large
expenditure taking place to open up communication was utterly
useless and worse than thrown away. The route chosen by the Government was not the
proper one. If an expenditure of ten times
the amount estimated was put in that work, no good would come of it. He (Mr.
Connell) was opposed to the first action of the Government on this
North-West question; but new arrangements were now made by the Hon.
Minister of Militia and the late Commissioner of Public Works. He (Mr.
Connell), however, had but little faith in the matter. They must hold
the Government responsible. The Government obtained authority from
Parliament to obtain the necessary funds. They were clothed with power
to go in and possess the land. What had been done? The country was about
lost to the Dominion and a large expense had been incurred. The people
of that territory were in open rebellion. This was not all. He (Mr. Connell) believed
that the class of persons which had put this
Dominion to so large an expense, would be found pouring into that district
at no distant day. If we could get the territory, it would be at an
endless expense, and he (Mr. Connell) did not believe the people of this
Dominion would sanction it. The Hon. Secretary of State for
the Provinces did not give much encouragement with regard to this
matter, but he seemed to think all will turn up right. Now the House had
been in session about four weeks. What had been done? What information had the Government
imparted to the people of this
Dominion? What is intended to be done? In the past there had been any
amount of useless expenditure, entailing all kinds of difficulties in the
North-West. What right have we in that Territory? Parliament
authorized Government to act. What have they done? Nothing but bring us into
difficulty, and wasted the public funds. If that territory is to form
part of this Dominion, it can only be done by a railway. That under present
consideration is an important question. If we had opened up the
country it would be a matter of consideration with the people of
this Dominion whether they would sanction the project. The whole
subject is not encouraging for the future. The value of the country
under present circumstances is problematical. Let us hope for the
best. This was no time to discuss that subject. Let the papers be
brought down. Let the policy of the Government be examined. Let the
people of the Dominion know the true state of things, and then let the House
decide the course to be taken for the welfare of the Dominion. But at
present this Government has not done anything but get things into
difficulty. It is to be regretted that they have failed in
their duty in this respect.
398 COMMONS DEBATES March 14, 1870
Mr. Mackenzie regretted the discussion had taken such
proportions at present, as it would have been better to have waited until
the papers had been brought down, when full information could be
obtained. His hon. friend on his right (Hon. Mr. Huntington) had been
incorrect in his geography, and had placed Duluth on the other side of St.
Paul, while it was 200 miles on this side, and was not so favourably
situated as Nipigon Bay or Thunder Bay for connection with Red River. He saw
no reason why the Dominion should find it necessary to
subsidize any American company (hear, hear), for the road should pass
through our own territory. He deprecated the remarks of his hon.
friend opposite (Mr. Connell) with regard to the expense of vindicating the
authority of the Dominion, and of the Empire in relation
to troubles in the North-West. That must be done at all costs and at all
hazards, (cheers). We must feel precisely in the position of an
individual who has been affronted, that until that affront is wiped out no
other question must stand in the way of vindicating our
position, (hear, hear). He considered that the proper time for the hon.
member for Algoma and others, to have expressed their opinion about
the route chosen by Mr. Dawson for a road, was during the discussion last
spring, when their views would have been of some use. He had no doubt,
if the Government showed anything like decision and activity in the construction
of that road, they would have got it done by
spring, when it would be required by immigrants, but the Government had
showed that same want of activity, and firmness, and decision which
characterized all their works.
Mr. Mackenzie said no one knew better than the Minister
of Militia that he (Mr. Mackenzie) never went too far. (Hear, hear.) In fact
he had incurred sometimes the reflection that he had injured his own
party by not going far enough; but in that case he must tell the truth. From
information which had reached him he was assured that there was no
worse mismanagement on any public works than on those from
Lake Superior west. He wished, however, to say no more on the subject until
the papers were brought down. He wished to prevent, as far as he
could, all discussion on this subject until more information was supplied.
The whole subject of the conduct of the Government in
relation to the North-West must pass under review before long, and as Hon.
Mr. McDougall, who was greatly concerned in the matter was not
present, and had no one there to represent him, it would be a great
injustice to indulge in remarks that might be injurious
399 to him. He
(Mr. Mackenzie) and Mr. McDougall had not co-operated for years,
and he had as much reason as any other man in the House to find fault
with his conduct in the past, but as an act of justice to a sick man, he
thought they ought to avoid topics which might be injurious to his
character unless he were present when they were discussed. (Hear,
hear.) It would be quite proper when the documents came down to
discuss that matter at length, but not till then.
Mr. Jones said he had said last Session that the money
expended on the present route was thrown away and another scheme was now
seen to be necessary. He was in favour of giving large grants of land.
What he had said had been confirmed by the accounts sent by
The Globe Special Correspondent, and also by
later telegrams. At the rate the Intercolonial Railroad was
progressing, the Road would not be made for two years; and the Commissioners
had better be empowered to entail their offices and emoluments to
their heirs and successors, for they would not, if they progressed at the
present rate, complete it during the course of their natural lives.
(Hear, hear.) The Government ought to reflect seriously before
undertaking the construction of a railway which would
cost a hundred millions of dollars, and lead to a country where the
thermometer was 45 degrees below zero, (laughter). He expected it
would be like the Intercolonial, which would cost twenty millions more than
twenty millions already borrowed.
Mr. McDonald (Middlesex) urged the adoption
of liberal land grants as in the American system, which was the only way of
peaceably obtaining possession of the territory. He considered the route from Fort
William to Fort Garry impracticable, and that
it would cost over twelve millions of dollars to make it available for three months
of the year, and in his judgment no Government could
keep peaceable possession of the North-West without railroad communication through
British territory. The proper
route was along the valley of the Ottawa River; and if the Government would
give $12,000 in cash and 12,000 acres of land per mile, they would
find a company that would build the road within five years and not ask
the Government for any assistance until they completed fifty miles. The
company, moreover, would do all their own surveying and engineering without any
cost to the Government.
The motion was carried.
Mr. Walsh said reference had been made incidentally to
the Intercolonial Railway, but as all matters connected with that enterprise
[...]
Cet individu a participé aux :
