THE ADDRESS
Hon. Mr. Howe resumed the debate on the
Address. After referring to the ceremony at the
opening of the Session—a scene of which, he
said, the country might be proud—he observed
that his two hon. friends who moved and
seconded the Address to the Speech from the
Throne, were like two heralds proclaiming the
lists opened. Then the hon. member for
Châteauguay threw down his glove and struck
the shield of his (Mr. Howe's) hon. friend on
the left (Sir F. Hincks), who at once picked up
the glove and accepted the challenge. The
opening debate took place in the presence of
Queen Victoria's son; but, although the Prince
had been present at the debate in Congress,
and had traversed a great portion of this country, he had witnessed no such scene,
embodying as it did the representation and security of
the people, and a system of well-preserved liberty. A few years ago, he (Mr. Howe)
had spent
some ten weeks in Washington, and during all
that time there was a deadlock between the
Government and the Legislature; but no such
thing could occur here and this was a subject
of earnest congratulation. During the debate
the Ministry had been challenged for explanations, and he had been challenged two
or three
times; and this was the first chance he had of
rising to say a word in his own defence or give
the explanations which the House had a right
to demand. He would beg gentlemen on the
other side to acquit him of remissness in not
speaking, but he had wanted to narrow the
debate and have a discussion on the North-
West. At the same time he had nothing to
conceal. The Opposition had a right to know
and his friends on his own side of the House
had a right to know, if he, last summer, had
done anything to weaken the hold he had on
the gentlemen on his own side of the House. It
would be in the memory of the House that
during the short session of 1867 he delivered on
the other side of the House his opinion on the
subject of the North-West. (Hear, hear.) It was
known too, how, in the presence of an immense
force on the other side, he had avowed and
maintained the belief that the Imperial Government should assume the charge of that
80
COMMONS DEBATES
February 21, 1870
Country. He believed that it should be formed
into a Crown Colony, or a series of Crown
Colonies, and that the Queen would have the
benefit of all the trade without the people of
the Dominion incurring the risk of extending
their territories or burthening themselves with
the expense. The session of Parliament to
which he had referred, lasted forty days, and
after it closed and went home. When Parliament opened again he found that it had decided
to purchase the Territory. After this, delegates were sent to England, and the
arrangements they had made were, he admitted, of an advantageous character. The policy
as to the North-West was settled when he went
into the Government last spring, and there was
nothing to be done except to carry out the
policy which Parliament had laid down. He
now addressed the House in the presence of his
friends in the Government, and would ask
them whether, from the day he entered the
Cabinet, they had not his sincere and hearty
co-operation in the course they had determined
to pursue. He would now say something as to
his connection with this question, but everything that related to the policy of the
Government after the insurrection, it would be more
convenient to discuss when the papers came
down. He proposed now to confine himself
chiefly to those points on which the gentlemen
opposite had made observations in the matter
of his conduct. About mid-summer he had gone
up the Upper Ottawa, and on his return was
about to pay a visit to his own Province, when
he was surprised to receive a note from one of
the Government as to exchanging the office he
then held to that of Secretary of State for the
Provinces. On reference to this particular circumstance, he would observe it had been
stated
abroad, and not contradicted, that there was
some French conspiracy, some conspiracy,
hatched he did not know exactly where, or by
whom, but hatched in some decree in the interests of Lower Canada, and by some gentlemen
who represented that section of the country.
He would now state that the proposal was
made to him by the Minister of Justice, sitting
in the Hon. Mr. McDougall's house, and no one
was present but three persons; and those three
were themselves. There was not in the city a
French member of the Cabinet, save the Hon.
Mr. Chapais. Sir George-E. Cartier and the
Hon. Mr. Langevin were in the Lower Provinces. He did not know whether they were
conversant with the proposition or not. Next
day, going down the river to Montreal, he put
the question to the Minister of Justice. "Do you
really wish me to change office? I have no
desire to change for I am happy enough where
I am." (Laughter.) He further stated to Sir
John A. Macdonald that he desired no change,
but at the same time, was perfectly willing to
81
assist the Government in any department they
desired. He also said to Sir John, "I know Nova
Scotia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland and the
two Provinces of Ontario and Quebec, but what
do I know of the North-West? But if it is wise
for me to act, the best thing I can do is to go to
the country, examine its approaches on every
side, and bring back to the Government that
amount of local and general knowledge which
the Government may require." As a further
evidence of this French conspiracy, Sir John A.
Macdonald had said to him, with a good deal of
earnestness, "I wish you would go." He (Mr.
Howe) then asked him if he were at liberty to
discuss this matter with their colleagues? and
Sir John A. Macdonald replied in the affirmative. He (Mr. Howe) soon ascertained that
the
proposal had been made with the knowledge of
the two French members. In the conversation
he (Mr. Howe) had with these two French
gentlemen, they neither attempted to influence
his judgment nor control his free action. He
believed that the statement which had been
made with respect to these two gentlemen was
without the shadow of a foundation. On his
return to Ottawa he put himself in communication with Mr. McDougall, finding that
the
latter had made up his mind to accept the
office of Lieutenant Governor. He consulted
with Mr. McDougall as to the best way in
which to employ his (Mr. Howe's) summer.
Here he might take occasion to say, with
respect to a certain matter that had been
hinted at, that in one conversation which he
had previous to the acceptance of office by Mr.
McDougall, he said to that gentleman, "If I
were younger nothing would gratify my ambition more than to go to the North-West,
and
there lay the foundation of a great Colony; but
I am twenty years too old, and would not
accept the office." Mr. McDougall knew this
was his (Mr. Howe's) opinion before he accepted office. Mr. Howe having described
the mode
of his journey to the North-West, said that it
had been objected to him that he had not sent
back instructions before Mr. McDougall set
out. The explanation on this head was very
simple. When he got to Abercrombie, which
was 315 miles from Fort Garry, he heard
rumours and reports that the Governor would
not be allowed to enter the Territory. These
rumours were everywhere, even in the streets.
Some young Canadian friends asked him how
he knew that he would be allowed to enter the
country. He said that he would make the
attempt; that the party did not anticipate an
army, but were quite prepared for any small
force. These rumours had spread 315 miles this
side of Fort Garry.
82
COMMONS DEBATES
February 21, 1870
Hon. Mr. Howe—About the 1st of October.
On the way to Fort Garry there was no
obstruction; there was nothing but courtesy
and rough hospitality. At the end of twenty
days they got to Fort Garry. There he received
three invitations to take up his quarters, one
from Governor McTavish, one from Dr. Schultz
and another from the Bishop of Rupert's Land.
But he preferred to go to the hotel, and be at
liberty to see every one and learn what he
could. Here he had been accused of uttering all
sorts of treason in some mysterious way. That
was simply impossible. There was but one
parlor in the hotel, shared by Mr. Turner and
Mr. Sandford, with himself. People were
coming and going, and he could have had but
little private conversation, nine out of ten
times these two gentlemen being present when
he was in company with any one, and heard
every word he spoke. What he said might have
been said on the street. He believed it to be his
first duty to call on Governor McTavish, but he
found he had been attacked with haemorrhage
of the lungs. He then addressed himself to get
such information as he could; went to the
Seminary of St. Boniface, visited their schools
and generally put himself in communication
with the leading men as far as he could ascertain them. He had been requested to make
speeches to the people but he felt that it would
be neither proper to do so in consideration of
the position of Governor McTavish on the one
hand, or of the incoming Governor McDougall.
He had stated that the new Governor would be
into the country in a week or two and that
when Governor McTavish had laid down his
authority, the new Governor would declare
what the policy was to be. Mr. Alcock, who was
there, invited him to drive with him, and he
had done so. He visited the Bishop of Rupert's
Land, Dr. McCrae, Arch-deacon McLean, Rev.
Mr. Black, Presbyterian Minister, and Judge
Black, all leading and highly respectable men,
and there was not much opportunity of speaking treason to them. He denied that there
had
been on his part either treasonable utterances
or absurd chaff. That would have been simply
foolish. When he visited Captain Kennedy, he
(Mr. Howe) and Turner, and Sandford
occupied the same room for nearly all the time
during the visit. Kennedy and Turner went out
for some business transactions, and he (Mr.
Howe) was in conversation with the lady of
the house, a woman of intelligence, and kind
and hospitable manner. She generally passed
in and out, getting dinner ready for them, and
83
he occasionally exchanged some observations
with her. When Kennedy and Turner returned,
they all sat down to dinner and after that they
exchanged a few general observations. That
was all the talk they had. Alcock and he parted
good friends, and that was all he (Mr. Howe)
knew of the matter. The hon. member for
Lambton had taken him to task for abusing the
Globe newspaper. He did not desire to abuse
the
Globe or any other newspaper, because he
was too old a newspaper man himself to take
up that course. But he would say this, that
when he was in the house of Captain Kennedy,
and when the subject of how the territory was
to be governed, and how Canada was about to
act, and what were the instructions of Mr.
McDougall, and what he would do when he
came into the territory, he (Mr. Howe) did
there, as he did everywhere—he defended what
was to be the policy of Canada in the most
open and undisguised manner. And when he
defended, as he was bound to do, the incoming
Governor, against the charges and insinuations, and doubts, and apprehensions thrown
out against him, when he did that what was
the answer? He was referred to Mr. Brown's
editorial as an evidence of the fact that he had
said that Canada would send men in there to
ride roughshod over the country; that the man
who was sent was unfit on account of his
political conduct, and was to bring with him
instructions and men who would set at naught
the rights and disregard the feelings of the
people. When he found the state of public opinion in the district he ascertained that
a number
of Canadians had been sent out there in the
public service, and had been there for some
time, and certainly had not made any report
regarding the state of feeling. When he left
Ottawa, there was no report that would have
led the government for a single moment to
suppose that there was any dissatisfaction out
there at the course government was taking.
But when he (Mr. Howe) got into the country
he saw there was a good deal the government
had to learn. In the first place the English
parts of the population were uneasy and dissatisfied, and were discussing the matter
among
themselves. He believed the difficulties originated, in the first instance, from the
discussions by the English parts of the population,
(hear, hear). And the ground they took was
that they had never been consulted on the
arrangements. They entertained fears and
apprehensions with regard to the instructions
given for the management of the country, that
their rights would be to a great extent ignored.
With regard to the French part of the population, the public grounds taken by the
English
people were widened by personal complaints,
which, up to that time, he had never heard. But
there was another element in the difficulty,
84 COMMONS DEBATES February 21, 1870
and it was one which, even if the Government
had known of it, they could not have prevented
it. Out in that country the Hudson's Bay Company has something like one hundred posts
scattered all over, and almost every one of
these stations is worked by a hard headed
Scotchman, (laughter). There are chief factors,
chief traders, there is a management in London
and a management at Red River, and every
summer at Norway House, at Lake Winnipeg,
representatives of the hundred posts, assemble
and hold a regular Parliament of their own,
and discuss matters and make arrangements
for the following year. These men have large
interests in the territory and in the property of
the Company, and there was a feeling of dissatisfaction among them. He had every reason
to believe that there was a feeling of great
uneasiness among the resident employees of
the Hudson's Bay Company, or among a very
large portion of them, and he believed that
they thought the directors and managers in
London, to whom the £300,000 was to be given,
would divide it among themselves exclusively,
which they feared would work great wrong to
them, for some of the men. He was not prepared to say how many believed that they
had
fair and just claims to a portion of the purchase money. It was clear, first, that
the English-speaking people were uneasy respecting
the basis of their representation; it was equally
clear the French people were apprehensive
upon the grounds which touched the personal
history of the gentleman who was coming to
govern them, and it was equally clear that an
uneasy feeling prevailed among the Hudson's
Bay Company's people themselves. After all,
the House would naturally inquire if all this
were so, why didn't he take some pains to
remove these impressions? (Hear, hear). He
(Mr. Howe) took all the pains in his power to
do so. He was all the time with leaders of
society, as far as possible, and by personal
explanations he endeavoured to remove these
impressions; and it was only fair to say that
when he left Winnipeg, there was not the
slightest murmur which would lead him to
believe that any armed opposition would be
presented. On the contrary—and he called the
attention of the leader of the Government, and
the leader of the opposition, and other gentlemen on that side of the House, to the
statement
that when he left Winnipeg Governor McTavish was about to summon a Council, in order
to
prepare an address of welcome to present to
Mr. McDougall, and when he left Winnipeg he
was under the impression that that, in all probability, would be done. How could he
(Mr.
Howe) be expected to convey to Mr. McDougall
any other impression than the general rumors
and reports, and complaints which had reached
him, and which he believed would be very soon
85
dissipated by Mr. McDougall's own conduct
and explanations when he once got into the
Territory. Hon. gentlemen opposite would
allow him to say that one of his objects in
going to Fort Garry was to get information for
the use of the Government, and for his own use
when he returned. He had no written instructions, and was not to do any particular
thing,
but was left to his own guidance to collect such
information as would be likely to be valuable
to government. He must say that Governor
McTavish had met him in the most friendly
way, and had placed in his hand the records of
the old Council of that country, and these he
had studied for two days. He procured and
brought home for the use of the Minister of
Justice a copy of the laws as they existed in
that Territory, that Government might know
the laws to which the people were accustomed.
He also obtained a list of names of old councillors, so that Government might know
in
making appointments how to select men of
experience in whom confidence had been
reposed already. He discharged his trust faithfully and honourably, and did all any
man
could to quiet the difficulties. He met McDougall in the open prairie, when a cold
north-east
wind was blowing. Fortunately he (Mr. Howe)
was travelling with the wind on his back, but
the hon. member for North Lanark had the
wind in his face—as with his family of children he travelled—he had to face the storm.
A Member—It has been in his face ever
since. (A laugh.)
Hon. Mr. Howe—If hon. gentlemen had been
on the open prairie that bitter morning, he
thought they would not have been exceedingly
anxious to hold communication with any one;
and when there were women and children concerned, it would have been barbarous to
have
stopped the cavalcade. Therefore, they merely
exchanged a few greetings and passed on. Now,
looking back at all that he had done, he was
not conscious that they could have made it
much better if they had stopped for an hour or
two and held consultation. He could merely
have made a few general observations about
the rumors he had heard, and the last he knew
was that a council was to be summoned to
prepare an address of welcome to Mr. McDougall on his arrival. Therefore he passed
on,
86 COMMONS DEBATES February 21, 1870
after giving him (Mr. McDougall) a hint or two
upon one or two topics, which he thought it
would be better for him to avoid. With these
explanations he would leave the matter with
the House.
Hon. Mr. McDougall desired to make a few
remarks in reply to the honourable Secretary
of State, who had, he thought, very properly
abstained from any observations on the general subject, but had confined himself to
what
appeared to be in his mind, an answer to some
charges that have been made against his conduct in the North-West Territory. He (Mr.
McDougall) saw no necessity on his part to
offer any observations to the House on anything that had fallen from the honourable
gentleman except that he felt it his duty to him,
the Government and the country to state that
having ascertained or heard of certain statements and conversations which the honourable
gentleman had indulged in, in that country,
and having met with a good deal of difficulty,
as he then believed, and still believed, on
account of the injudicious statements—to call
them no harsher name—of the honourable gentleman there, he had spoken freely on the
subject to members of the press who had commented on them, and he therefore felt
constrained to make a few observations to the
House and would endeavour to convey simply
what he had learned from the friends as well as
the enemies of Canada in that territory. The
hon. gentleman opposite by his own confession
did very little to smooth the way for the introduction of Canadian authority and his
own
representative. He (Mr. Howe) had stated that
he found a very uneasy state of feeling among
the English and Scotch portion of the population; that they had grave doubts as to
the
nature of the Government to be imposed upon
them; and he had stated that he endeavoured to
remove those feelings. He stated also that he
had found great dissatisfaction among the
employees of the Hudson Bay Company,
against which they had complaints to make,
and that they thought the officers to be introduced by the Canadian Government would
interfere with their privileges and profits. He
had gone on to say that among the French
half-breeds there was some uneasiness, and
from what he (Mr. McDougall) gathered, he
(Mr. Howe) wished to convey that they were
opposed to the person who had been appointed
to govern them. He thought the hon. gentleman
(Mr. Howe) had treated him rather cruelly in
not telling him of this state of affairs when
they had met on the prairie, even if he was
87
facing a storm. He was sure he should have
been most happy to have turned back to hear
his news, (hear, hear). The hon. gentleman, if
he had so desired, had ample opportunity to
state these facts, but instead of so doing he had
spoken of the soil and the climate. The former
he said was excellent, but the latter was execrable. He had not felt warm for three
weeks
(laughter). This was the burden of the conversation he indulged in, and he (Mr. McDougall)
was so amused at finding he had nothing to
combat but the climate that he indulged in a
little badinage against the hon. gentleman, who
complained that he had had to float across a
river through the ice, and averred that a country where this had to be done in the
middle of
October was not fit for a white man to live in.
He (Mr. McDougall) had recalled to the hon.
gentleman's recollection that this sometimes
happened on the St. Lawrence at Quebec at the
same time of the year, and chatted and bantered with him for some time defending the
country till the people in the carts poked out
their heads to listen to the conversation. At
last he said to him "then you do not envy me
my position" and he replied, "no, upon my soul
I don't" (great laughter). The hon. gentleman
had also failed to write him (Mr. McDougall)
from Fort Abercrombie as he had promised.
The letter received from him was dated St.
Paul's and did not reach him till weeks afterwards. After the admission made by the
hon.
gentleman as to what he found in the country
it was surely his duty to tell him of the difficulties he was to meet instead of warning
him of the terrors of the climate (hear, hear).
In order to prevent any misunderstanding that
might arise from hasty words in this dispute he
thought it well to read an extract from a letter
which he wrote from Pembina to a member of
the Government. He had written this letter
quite deliberately, and upon what he deemed
sufficient information. After some preliminary
sentences which it was not necessary to read,
he wrote as follows:
"Laross Farm, Pembina, Nov. 13 1869.
I enclose extracts from two letters received
the night before last, from Fort Garry. I send
them confidentially because they were written
under that protection and because they may
not be agreable to our friend from Nova Scotia.
You will I know give me credit for sufficient
coolness and distrust of other people's impressions to scrutinize before I believe,
and to be
tolerably sure before I act, but it is unfortunate
to say the least, that Mr. Howe's remarks when
here, have been interpreted in the same sense
by the enemies as by the friends of Canada. I
differ from him entirely as to his estimate of
the soil and climate and capabilities of this
88 COMMONS DEBATES February 21, 1870
country—from all I see, as well as from all I
hear. The Red River, a sluggish stream, is not
frozen over except at a few points, and at these
it would be dangerous for a grown man to
cross. It is raining as I write (Nov. 13) and the
cattle still feed on the Prairie. Our horses
which were jaded and thin when we arrived
here, and have had nothing to eat but Prairie
hay—cured at the proper season—are now in
fair condition to start upon another journey.
These facts are better than speculations and
will carry more weight with those who know
how to weigh them, than rhetorical flourishes."
He (Mr. McDougall) had written thus,
because he knew from the views expressed by
the Honourable Secretary of State that he
would return to Canada and endeavour to
depreciate the country.
"What Mr. Howe may have said to the malcontents, I of course do not know, but from
his
remarks to me on the Prairie when we met I
infer that he disapproved of the ardour of the
friends of Canada in the settlement and
excused the hostility of those who are now its
armed enemies. He did this, I have no doubt
conscientiously, and without perhaps reflecting upon the use that would soon be made
of
his expressions. The Canadian Government
and Canadians have done nothing to injure
these people, but everything to benefit them.
They helped to save them from starvation- gave them good wages for their labor—and
by
competition in trade and farming enabled them
to obtain both food and clothing in greater
quantities and at lower prices than before.
They cannot specify a single grievance against
Canada in the past, and I have not heard of one
that they apprehend in the future except, that
they—three or four thousand serfs of yesterday—will not be entrusted with the government
and destiny of a third of the American
continent! What ground exists for sympathy
with them in such a case I am unable to perceive, or why those who have advocated
the
claims and defended the flag of Canada, and
who are now ready to risk their lives for us,
should be repulsed, and those who are leagued
with Yankee sympathisers and foreign Jesuits
to resist the authority of the Canadian Government, and, if need be, murder its representatives,
excused and encouraged, I cannot discover. I write thus strongly because I feel that
the
thoughtlessness and spleen, and thin blood,
and inability to forget recent personal antecedents and declarations of your missionary,
have put obstacles in my way—the magnitude
89
and gravity of which you will appreciate as
events develop themselves—and who, as far as
I can learn, did nothing and said nothing, but
flatly refused to do anything or say anything
on behalf of Canada, its policy, or its
representatives.
This is the report that reaches me, and I have
no evidence to the contrary. Indeed, Mr. Howe
told me himself that he had said nothing and
promised nothing on my behalf, except that I
would deal justly with all interests. In one
sense this was prudent; in another—and in the
presence of a conspiracy known to be on footreticence by a high functionary from Canada
was as mistaken and as fatal to the cause of
order, as the silence of the local authorities,
who are believed by the rebels to be on their
side . . .
You may show this to Sir George and Mr.
Tilley, but I wish it to be considered confidential. Understand my remarks about Mr.
Howe
are not inspired by any ill-feeling or sinister
motive of any kind. I have always had a strong
regard for him politically and personally, but
he has blundered awfully (more than once).
This time, I am the victim and do not experience pleasurable sensations at the prospect."
He remarked that in a portion of the conversation he had with Mr. Howe on the prairie
there were some very strong hints against the
conduct of friends of Canada in the territory.
But recalling his experience of events there,
and after hearing the statements made in various quarters as to the course pursued
by Mr.
Howe, he had nothing to alter, nothing to abate
from the views expressed in that letter. It
seemed to him the' honourable gentleman
might very easily, under the circumstances,
have paved the way for the entry of the
Canadian Representative. Instead of that he
was in communication with, and visited the
Bannatynes, the McKennies, the Kennedy's,
the very men who are now in rebellion.
Hon. Mr. Howe—I never was at the houses
of either Bannatyne or McKenny.
Mr. Mackenzie Understood the honourable
gentleman to say that he had been at Mr.
Kennedy's?
Hon. Mr. McDougall said that he understood
that the British flag had been raised over the
90 COMMONS DEBATES February 21, 1870
residence of a Canadian at Fort Garry in
honour of the arrival of a member of the
Canadian Government, and that the honourable gentleman had denounced those who had
raised that flag and wished that it should be
pulled down. It did not appear to him that this
was the spirit which ought to have been displayed by the honourable gentleman if he
was
loyal, and anxious to promote the policy of the
government of Canada. He might have taken
some opportunity as a public man, a man who
was master of our language, to inform those
people of the boon that was about to be conferred upon them. If the honourable gentleman
deemed it necessary, for his own justification,
he (Mr. McDougall) trusted that the House
would grant a committee and that the matter
would be enquired into, that it might be ascertained whether a member of the government
had gone out to that country and added fuel to
the flame. The people there know the history of
this and they knew what impelled him to
change his seat from one side of the house to
the other, and they pointed to him and said
"are we to be treated in any other way than
Nova Scotia? Nova Scotia was on the point of
rebellion, shall we not carry out the same
plan?" And the honourable gentleman said "go
ahead—you are quire right," and they did go
ahead and barricaded the road and sent word
that he (Mr. McDougall) was not to enter the
territory. The leaders of the rebellion there are,
he had every reason to believe, from uncontradicted reports from all parts, confidently
relying upon the support of that honourable
gentleman in his seat, and some of those who
sit beside him. It was that which caused them
to go to such extremes to imprison Canadians,
to imprison poor Mrs. Schultz, and to refuse to
allow her husband, or Dr. Macdonald, who was
also a prisoner and a man of skill, to see her. It
was that that emboldened them, in their inhuman treatment of loyal men who were driven
out of the territory in the depth of winter to
perish on the plains, (hear, hear). He, (Mr.
McDougall), while the hon. gentleman was
speaking, had received a letter from Mr. Provencher, who is still at Pembina, and
this was
what he said:
"Pembina, February 3, 1870.
Sir,—According to the last information
received here, the position is very critical at
Fort Garry, Riel is more powerful than ever,
and his orders are the only laws enforced.
Nobody is allowed to go out of the Fort without
his permission, and when he is absent or
engaged, they must wait. The council are now
discussing with Mr. Smith the new "Bill of
91
Rights," composed of twenty articles, and in
the interest of the freedom of speech, Mr.
Smith is kept prisoner. So is Salaberry; but for
what reason, I dont't know, perhaps as a hostage. I believe that the discussion will
last
perhaps two or three weeks more.
The soldiers are more numerous than ever,
mostly living on pemican, tea, sugar and rum
taken from the stores of Schultz and the Company. No more talk about the pledge.
It can be interesting for you to know that the
gate at Fort Garry is guarded by an American
citizen, and that two other American citizens
were sent after Schultz to re-arrest him (without success). So much for the neutrality
laws."
He continued to say that the action of the
rebels, or malcontents, or whatever they might
be called, had, from the beginning to the end,
been caused by the fact that they had been
sustained in it; that they had been encouraged
to enforce their demands by driving him, and
every man who was supposed to be desirous of
assisting in supporting the Dominion of
Canada, out of the territory, by the belief that
the hon. gentleman opposite would sustain
them in their line of action. It was for the
country to say whether he (Mr. McDougall)
who, he thought, it would be acknowledged,
had made considerable sacrifices in his efforts
to secure the union of all the Provinces, had
been sustained by the hon. gentleman in bringing this territory peaceably and amicably
into
the Confederation. He had very serious doubts
on the subject. He had nothing to complain of
in the conduct of the other members of the
Government. He looked back with the greatest
satisfaction to his connection with the hon.
gentleman at the head of the Government, and
the Hon. Minister of Militia, who sat beside
him, especially the latter gentleman, with
whom he had been to England on a mission of
serious importance. Circumstances coccurred
there, and kindness was shown which he
would never forget. He would always look
upon him as a personal friend whom it would
please him to serve. But on the whole he took it
that it was not such a Government, such a
combination as is best fitted to deal with the
great question now before the House. He trusted the House would have a better opportunity,
under more favorable circumstances, of discussing this matter when the papers were
brought down. He did not know whether the
Government intended to bring down all the
papers. He took the liberty of making the
observation now that in the interests of the
public it would be well that the hon. gentlemen
should look carefully at the nature of the documents before sending them to the House
as
92
COMMONS DEBATES
February 21 , 1870
there was this difficulty, that in getting information as well as he could for the
government,
it was necessary to mention names and persons. If the fact of these persons having
informed and assisted the government, should
reach the territory, their lives and property
would be endangered. He had offered to one of
the members of the government, to look over
the papers in the most friendly spirit, with a
view to prevent any injury to any individual in
the territory, on account of the exposure of
their conduct in the premises. He trusted this
would be done. All the papers could be placed
upon the table without mentioning names or
involving any one. When the papers were on
the table, the whole matter could be discussed.
His conduct had been discussed and assailed
by the public press, but he was not so thin-
skinned and could wait better than his friend
opposite, who, it was known, had made great
blunders before, and he thought it would
appear had done so in this case. (Hear, hear.)
Hon. Mr. Howe said he had heard for the
first time the letter which the member for
Lanark had read with reference to himself. It
appeared it was to be shown to his two colleagues, but not to him. When the papers
were
laid before the House it would appear why the
people of Red River, stung with madness,
imprisoned every Canadian they could find.
They would find the reason in that honourable
gentleman's own handwriting. If Canadian
people up there were not murdered it was to be
wondered at, in view of the documents that the
honourable gentleman had the hardihood and
audacity to publish in that country. That honourable gentleman very kindly offered
to sit
down with members of the Government, and
select from among the papers those which
should be brought down. No doubt that gentleman would be glad to do that, but the
House
should be in possession of full information.
The honourable gentleman said he (Mr. Howe)
objected to a flag with Canada on it hoisted.
Yes he did object to it. Long before he reached
Red River he heard of an individual who was
putting himself forward as a friend and representative of Canada. He learnt from Canadians
on the way up the character of that individual;
and when he got up there that individual hoisted a flag on his chimney. But he (Mr.
Howe)
felt not the slightest desire to fraternize with
him. The member for Lanark knew well that
one of the people he sent into the country, not
content with attending to the duty with which
he was charged, had written home to Canada
language grossly insulting to the women of a
large majority of the population of the North-
West, that had created so deep a feeling of
indignation, that one of the half-breed ladies-
93
as much a lady as one could expect in that
place—had turned that individual out of her
house, and slapped his face. The hon. member
for Lanark wrote a public despatch calling the
attention of the Government to those charges
against his colleagues and friends. When the
papers were brought down, he (Mr. Howe)
would be prepared to justify not only all he
had stated, but all public documents to which
he had put his hand. The member for Lanark
had said that he (Mr. Howe) told the people of
Red River to go ahead. He denied this, and said
that he had not used a single expression, while
in the territory, that could properly be considered an instigation to insurrection.
When
they came to discuss the whole question, it
might be his duty to show to the House that
the cause of the difficulties with which they
had to contend was more or less attributed to
the gentleman selected as Lieutenant Governor. He did not know of this till he got
to the
territory, but the honourable gentleman would
find that there were certainly as many personal objections to him as he could rake
up with
reference to him (Honourable Mr. Howe). The
people of Red River should be governed the
same as the people of Ontario and Quebec, by
their minds (cheers from both sides). If we
could not do that then he would say abandon
the country, and let grass grow over the prairies, and the wild animals roam in the
woods.
Let us not go hence to shed human blood for
the purpose of showing that a great Reformer
from Canada—a great stalking horse of a Grit
(laughter), in the absurd spirit of a tyrant,
desired to grasp the power of a dictator. Read
the documents when they come down and
judge for yourselves.
Mr. Blake desired to say a few words, not
upon the policy of the Government in regard to
Red River, but as to the sufficiency or insufficiency of the personal explanations
that had
been made. He was willing to believe that
when the Hon. Secretary for the Provinces
consented to accept that office with the condition of a visit to Red River, that he
was not
aware of dissatisfaction existing in the Territory. Otherwise he would have been a
most
improper person to go upon a public mission to
conciliate those people, seeing that he himself
furnished a living example of the good results
of persistent and almost violent opposition.
Well, the hon. gentleman went up to Red River,
and found as he had described a state of dis
94 COMMONS DEBATES February 21, 1870 satisfaction among all classes. But he did not
raise his voice in the endeavour to dissipate
that dissatisfaction, by telling them of the real
intentions of the Canadian Government,
because, forsooth, that would disturb the harmony of society there—disturb the unanimity
which prevailed against Canada. That was an
excuse of the lamest kind, and one which the
country could not accept. The hon. gentleman
had denied that he did anything to invite
insurrection, but he had not yet denied that he
counselled them not to resist, but to obtain
their rights by constitutional means.
Hon. Mr. Howe—Not only did I not attempt
to instigate armed insurrections or to bar out
the Governor, but the grounds I took everywhere in presence of all leading people
was
this: that there was no ground for apprehension at all; that when Mr. McDougall came
into
the territory, if he was a sensible man, (cheers
and laughter from the opposition benches), he
would learn the views of the people, and
govern his actions accordingly, and that as
soon as possible a responsible government
would be granted.
Mr. Blake—To tell disaffected people who
suspected their Governor, that if he was a
sensible man he would do so and so, was rather
a curious way to allay their apprehensions. If
that was so, it were better for the Governor
that he (Mr. Howe) had never said a word in
his defence. Well the honourable gentleman
left the country, without having given any
public assurance to the masses, which might
have tended to allay the agitation. There was
an old parable about a man going down to
Jericho and falling among thieves, who
stripped him, wounded him and left him half
dead. By and by there came a priest that way
but he passed on the other side, (laughter). It
was true his hon. friend from North Lanark
had not at that period fallen among thieves,
but he was on his way to them, and his hon.
friend for Hants met him, and though there
was time for chaffing and joking, not a word
was uttered as to the difficulties before the
Lieutenant Governor. He was utterly unable to
understand how, with loyal feelings towards
the settled designs of this country and towards
the hon. gentleman appointed as Governor, and
who was about to enter that territory, his hon.
friend from Hants could have acted as he did
upon that occasion. He hoped that gentleman
could yet recollect some other and more
reasonable excuse for his extraordinary con
95duct, as facts now stood he was charged with
the most gross neglect of a solemn duty. Was
he to excuse himself with the fact that the
wind was strong, and that trivial remarks
about the climate, and chaff about the wind
took place? He hoped that the hon. gentleman
might be able to interrupt him again with further explanations in justification of
this most
gross, cruel, and direct violation of this most
solemn duty, which one colleague owed to
another. Then they had the circumstance that
the hon. gentlemen had objected to the flag of
England floating in the wind.
Mr. Blake—Then the hon. gentleman makes
a distinction between the two. (Cheers.) He
(Mr. Blake) concluded, amid cheers, by
expressing his strong dissatisfaction at the
course pursued by the hon. gentleman.
The third paragraph was then carried.
Hon. Mr. Holton said the leader of the Government had given as a reason the other
evening why there should be an adjournment,
that it was only due to the able and elaborate
speech of the member for Lambton that it
should be answered by one of the gentlemen on
the Treasury Benches. They had been waiting
patiently, two or three clauses of the address
had been passed, and the ministry had not yet
been heard from. The Opposition could afford
to allow the Address to go without further
debate, if the Ministry could. But there were
some points in the speech of the hon. member
for Lambton which clearly should not be left
unanswered. Explanations especially were
required of the statements made by the
Finance Minister in a letter with his own signature, lately published, in which he
said that
the peace of the country was threatened by
armed invasion from without, and from treason within.
The fourth clause of the Address were then
passed.
Mr. Masson (Soulanges)—It is not my
intention to detain the House very long; but I
wish only to observe that up to this time of the
proceedings, the French-speaking portion of
the House had not the opportunity of having
any ministerial explanations in their own language, therefore those who do not understand
117
Mr. Mackenzie—I did not bring it up as a
grievance, but as a deception practiced upon
Reformers at the elections in 1867. I wish the
whole of you were Conservatives, and then we
would have no difficulty.
Hon. Sir George-È. Cartier said the matter
did not affect or interest the representatives of
the other Provinces. The hon. member for
Lambton said that he wished to see them all
Conservatives; but let him try to get up a
Liberal party. With regard to the charge of the
want of success in Confederation, and supporting it by the cases of Newfoundland and
Prince
Edward Island, and the North West, he would
refer to those countries. With regard to Newfoundland, it had rejected the proposal;
but the
terms were not those of the Government but of
the House. The House agreed to their proposed
terms, and then they ceased to be their proposals; and he was surprised to see that
such
intelligent men as the members for Lambton
and Sherbrooke should found their charges
upon such a foundation. He would tell the
House that if they would be quiet, in a short
time the terms would be accepted. With regard
to Prince Edward Island, the Government had
made certain proposals, but they did not like to
do anything without the approval of Parliament. They had telegraphed the terms they
should submit, and they had not yet received a
reply. They could not force such powerful
Provinces as Newfoundland and Prince
Edward Island to accept their terms, but they
must wait. With regard to the North-West Territory, the proceedings adopted had not
been
the action simply of the Government, but had
been adopted by the House. After the plans had
been adopted by Parliament the House was
responsible for them. He hoped his hon. friend
did not object to that. The responsibility rested
not upon the Government, but upon the Parliament which had passed it; they had done
all in
their power to bring about the admission of the
North-West into Confederation. He would
admit that at the time the Confederation Act
was discussed in Quebec, and at the discussions on it, they were not in possession
of all
the information that was desirable. The idea
was that the Hudson Bay Company were not
treating the inhabitants kindly, and that they
would enter the Union gladly, but recent circumstances showed that the Government
of
the country was not as unpopular as it was
represented. His own impression was that the
population had become indifferent to it, and
the late lamentable circumstances proved that
it was partly unpopular. He regretted that his
own colleague was now to be addressed as an
opponent. Before he accepted the office, he
came to him (Sir George) and asked him
118 COMMONS DEBATES FEBRUARY 21, 1870
whether he would support him. He promised
him to do so for he thought that he would have
been a good Governor. He thought now that he
would have been a good Governor if he could
have got into the country and could have
explained to the settlers that the Government
intended to do them no wrong. There could be
no doubt that the Scotch and English half-
breeds did not find fault with what the French
Canadian half-breeds were doing. It had been
published in some papers that there was a
conspiracy against his hon. friend, because a
French Gouvernor ought to be sent there, and
that the Territory ought to be a second Quebec.
He thought that these statements were the
most wicked untruths that had ever been published. He had promised his friend his
support,
and he should not have been guilty of doing
anything to give the least appearance of truth
to such a wicked and mischievous untruth. The
French Canadians were an impulsive race, and
he thought it very wrong for a writer or a
speaker to attempt to raise a disturbance in the
East as well as in the West. They were French
Canadians, but they were also British subjects
(cheers), and were as much British, even if not
more so, than the British, (cheers). He was a
pure Frenchman, and he defied them to produce a more loyal man. Suppose that he was
appointed to the Governorship, would his
being a French Canadian make him unfit for
that position? (No! no.) Sir G.-E. Cartier then
contrasted the liberality of the Provinces of
Ontario and Quebec, and gave a stirring
description of the loyalty of the old French
inhabitants of the Province of Quebec. As to
the inhabitants of the Red River, the French
had gone there with their fathers, but some
stupid fanatical papers had said there should
be no Frenchmen there. At any rate there was
no intention to send a French Government
there; but still their paper had no right to
speak of the French population as they had
done. The Red River must be a Province like
Quebec, Ontario, Nova Scotia, or New Brunswick, but a Province for every race to settle
in.
He thanked God there were in Lower Canada
250,000 honest English-speaking residents; and
he and his co-nationalists only regretted that
there were not double the number. At the last
census there were 80,000 French Canadians in
Upper Canada. He hoped at the next census
there would be 100,000 more (laughter), and he
was convinced that the Upper Province would
not be the worse for this increase. The address
stated that the policy of conciliation would be
adopted. There was the case of Ireland, conquered hundreds of years ago, and the misgovernment
there was only now about to be
relieved by Protestant votes. We wanted no
such state of things here—no country baptized
in blood. The House and country ought to be
119
thankful that the North-West Territory would
be annexed without a drop of blood being shed,
(hear, hear). The moderation of the half-breeds
had been remarkable; and now they understood the policy of the Government was to be
pacific. He was afraid that Mr. Macdougall had
been misled by some designing people in Red
River. But papers would come before the
House, and they would show the necessity of
having this unfortunate difficulty settled as
soon as possible. Some papers asserted that
Bishop Taché had encouraged the movement.
He had the authority of Bishop Taché to deny
it
in toto. Some days before Bishop Taché left
for Rome in December last, Bishop Taché was
informed that Mr. Macdougall was to come.
The Bishop wrote to the College of St. Boniface, to the nuns in the convent there,
telling
them to welcome Mr. Macdougall. The nuns
having the little children under their control,
were prepared to receive him by singing the
National Anthem. As to the remarks which Mr.
Mackenzie had made as to the militia he (Sir
George) could inform him that there were
enrolled in Lower Canada 43,000 men, or 3,500
beyond the quota. There was also an excess
over the quota in Ontario, New Brunswick, and
Nova Scotia. There had been strictures as to
the success of Confederation, but could it be
denied that the Nova Scotian's difficulty
de
facto had been settled? It was well after all that
the Constitutional Act of Confederation had
been tested in Nova Scotia. There the Local
Parliament was against the Dominion Government, but still it could not impede the
whole of
Confederation. By the action of the last Parliament giving justice to Nova Scotia,
the cause of
Confederation had been vastly strengthened.
Sir A. T. Galt had accused the Government of
slowness in carrying out Confederation; but
New Jersey and Rhode Island had been for
years out of the American Union. Let Sir A. T.
Galt, who is so great an admirer of American
institutions, give the Dominion the same time
for the work of Confederation. The work of
incorporating Red River, Newfoundland and
Prince Edward Island would be completed
before our American neighbors had settled
their difficulties. The Hon. Mr. Huntington had
taken part in a meeting in the Eastern Townships, called for the discussion of Independence,
but luckily the member for Missisquoi
(Mr. Chamberlin) was there and opposed him.
The result was that Mr. Huntington did not try
to hold a meeting of the same kind anywhere
else in Lower Canada.
120 COMMONS DEBATES February 21, 1870
Hon. Mr. Huntington said, the question of
Confederation was an old one, started by Sir A.
T. Galt in 1858, seized on, and adopted by Sir
G.-É. Cartier, and soon after introduced into a
speech from the Throne.
Hon. Sir George-É. Cartier said the Government had real work to do to incorporate the
different Provinces; but the Hon. Mr. Huntington had found it easier work to get up
an
agitation. He did not blame any one who cherished ideas about "Independence" but in
England, amongst some of the public men and
writers, there was an erroneous idea as to
"Independence." There had sprung up there an
abominable school of politicians, who would
measure the greatness of England by estimating the savings of a few thousands a year.
But
if there were diseased parts in the body politic
of England, let them show that they at heart,
as members of the Empire, were healthy, and
let them show by pronouncing that we have no
desire for "Independence". (Cheers.)
Hon. Mr. Huntington said that the Minister
of Militia confounded the theory of Confederation with its practical working. The
Confederation question had been of slow growth. It was
first proposed years ago by the member for
Sherbrooke, who stood alone in the matter, and
it was only when it was likely to be successful
that the scheme was taken up by the Minister
of Militia and a coalition formed to carry it.
Judging from analogy he had little doubt that
before long Cartier would make the independence question his own and earn great credit
by carrying out other men's ideas, as he had
done before.
Hon. Sir George-É. Cartier said the agitation now at all events was very slow. England
was the centre of the British system. If there
was any disease of the heart, let Canada prove
herself sound and show herself determined to
maintain the connection in spite of anything
which might be uttered by any British Radical,
(cheers).
The fifth to the ninth paragraphs were
adopted. On the reading of the tenth,
Mr. Cartwright moved the adjournment of
the House, and after remarks from some of the
members the House adjourned at 11:35.
Cet individu a participé aux :
