FRIDAY, 11th MARCH, 1870.
The debate was resumed by the Hon. Mr. RING, who on rising was greeted with cries
of
" Spoke, spoke."
Hon. Mr. Ring said:—Sir, I have only spoken to the amendment,
and have a right to speak to the original motion.
Doubts were expressed as to the Hon. gentleman's right to speak a second time, but
the
Presiding Member was not called upon to decide, and
Mr. Ring proceeded :-
Sir. the Hon. Member for Victoria District commenced by congratulating the Council
on
having the grand question of Confederation now before them. He congratulated them
on the
great advantage of being able to grapple with a great question like this.
I cannot compliment him on the way in which he introduced his subject. I admire his
perseverance and confess that on many subjects he enlightens Members on both sides
of the
House.
I lament to find that having alluded to the opening speech of the Attorney-General,
he
thought fit to cast unwarrantable imputations upon that gentleman and the members
of the
Government. He suddenly turned aside and quoted a text, which he applied to the Official
Members of this Council, He likened one of them to a woman who forgets her modesty
and
shame and goes after lovers for broad; to her who has a harlot's forehead, and refuses
to
be ashamed. Sir, I deprecate such allusions; they throw no light upon the subject.
I think
that an Honourable and grave body like this, on hearing such charges, should have
at once
risen to express their indignation rather than have condoned it by their silence.
Nothing is
more easy than to take any one act of a man, or of a body of men, and apply it to
a sinister
motive, when it is capable of an honourable one, Sir. I was very glad that the Hon.
Attorney.
General had the courage to follow the example of the English House of Commons. He,
finding
CONFEDERATION DEBATE. 39
no Chaplain to this House, supplied the defect by invoking the blessing of God, which
was
met by a sneer. I say I admire his courage in fronting a godless age, by the invocation
of
the blessing of Him in whom we live and move and have our being. He was not ashamed
to acknowledge the controlling power of Heaven over the destinies of this fallen Colony.
Now, Sir, the Attorney-General descanted at great length on the advantages of Union.
He put that as the basis of the Government proposition. There is nothing like Union
he
says; this is a noble sentiment which all must join in. Everyone would welcome that
comprehensive brotherhood which embraces all civilized Nations. I am sure that when
the
Hon.
Member for Victoria alluded to the possibility of a prospective union with other Powers,
he
did not do so in the idea of this Colony abandoning its allegiance to the Crown; because
he expressed a wish to see the desire of general union spreading, is no reason that
he should
desire to shake off his connection with the Mother Country. Had it been otherwise,
I should
have deplored the Hon. gentleman's loss, of loyalty. Some surprise has existed at
the Hon.
Member for Victoria offering suggestions as to the possibility of any other union,
Why so?
The Hon. Attorney―General himself gracefully introduced it. Why should not the Englishspeaking
race live in peace and form one nation? The people of the United States spring
from one common stock with ourselves. I long to see the time when all national sectarianism
shall be swept away,
My position as Member for Nanaimo has been assailed in a cowardly way by what is
called the Press. I have been accused of shrinking from my duty to my constituents
at
Nanaimo, because I echoed their sentiments against Confederation. I ask the indulgence
of
the House whilst I allude to what occurred at Nanaimo at the last election. At that
time the
question of Confederation was rife throughout the Colony; people's minds were agitated;
the
people of Nanaimo were almost unanimous against it. In what I said to them during
the
progress of the election, and also on the hustings, I told them that I agreed with
their views
against Confederation, but that when it came before the Council I should give it my
best
attention. It was not made a test question at my election. The people of Nanaimo are
still of
their original opinion; and, therefore, I express their opinion now, against this
measure; and
say that their convictions are against Confederation, notwithstanding the " No, noes
" of certain
Hon. Members. There may be some amongst them, Canadians by birth and principle, who
desire Confederation, who, though they are here, can say with the poet :-
" Where ere I roam, whatever realms I see,
My heart untravelled fondly turns to thee."
Thus much for Nanaimo.
Now, I say. Sir, that the question of Confederation ought to be fully and amply discussed
in this House, and to do this there should be a full House. I deny that it is the
desire of
the people to have Confederation, but I say let the people have an opportunity of
expressing
their opinions in this House. Let the disfranchised districts have first restored
to them the
rights of which they have been defrauded. The Governor has been betrayed into supposing
that the people want Confederation, and assuming this to be true, he says I shall
now give
the people an opportunity to discuss the terms.
But let the Franchise be restored, then let the general question of Confederation
come
before an enlarged representation; and I say that Confederation should be put alone,
aye or
no. Shall we have Confederation; and not upon what terms shall we have it. The proper
course is to dissolve the House, issue new writs, and let the people say whether they
want
Confederation; and after they have said yes, then descend into the particulars of
it. A Government measure is now proposed, we are bound hand and foot, and handed over
to Ottawa
I say,
Sir, that being so handed over, we ought to let our masters settle the terms for us.
I, therefore, venture again, Mr. President, to repeat that if it is to go abroad that
the
people desire Confederation. then the House should be dissolved, and a fair vote taken.
The Hon. Member for Victoria District puts it as if the voice of the people had been
heard.
I ask how? Through newspapers? Conventions? Speeches? I say this is not the proper
way.
Let the people speak in this House, through a full body of Representatives of their
own choosing.
The question has been amply ventilated in this Council. The Hon. Member for Victoria
City has gone fully into what he considers the difficulties. He has been met on the
other side
in a manly and able reply by the Hon. Chief Commissioner of Lands and Works, who has
been
again met by the Hon. Mr. Wood.
40
CONFEDERATION DEBATE.
It is not for me to go into the question of terms now; but I deny emphatically that
Confederation is desired by the people. My own constituents
are against it; many other
constituents are, as I believe, against it also.
I ask, then, why should the Government attempt to force these Resolutions upon us,
by
means of the Official Members, who are only supreme in numbers?
The people have had no opportunity to express their wish. Difficulties have been presented
by an Hon. Member, arising from the space between British Columbia and Canada—difficulties
arising from the means of transit, and from the means of communication being cut off—diffculties
arising from what is at present called the rebellion in the North―West Provmces;
that
strife, as I am informed, gathering strength day by day. ["No, no." from
Mr. DeCosmos.]
Hon. Mr. Ring Hon, Members say "No, no." I am so informed I hope it is not so, but if it be, then
under
the name of Union we are called upon to take part in this internecine war.
I long for union as much as any man. In union of good there is strength and victory,
but in union of evil there is defeat and disaster. I shall not occupy the time of
this Council:
in adverting to matters which have been amply discussed; in expressing my conscientious
opinion I do my duty. The Hon. Mr. Wood has told us that he counts professional honours
as nought. I say nothing of prior claims to professional honours which I have lost,
from, at
all times, conscientiously supporting what I conceived to be right. His Excellency
says that
we are not fit for Responsible Government. I want to know on what local data he says
so?
Who has tried the people? On the scope of whose mind is it said they are not fit?
Who has
examined them?
The Hon. Member for Victoria District has properly said, if Hon. Members were paid
for
their attendance in the House you would soon see whether men were capable or not to
enter
upon and fulfil the duties of Responsible Government. Then we should see whether the
gentlemen disguised in mean apparel—Graduates of Oxford, Cambridge, and other Universities
who
have cast; their lot in this Colony, but are unable to defray their travelling expenses
from remote
places to the Capital. We should see, I say, whether they were capable, or not, of
enlightening
and controlling by their wisdom the feeble powers of Governmental diplomacy. Sir,
by enlarged
representation we shall discover such men. We had one foot forward in the direction
of
freedom, it has been forced back. The franchise has been taken away. Sir, I have very
feebly
endeavoured to touch upon these subjects. In line, I affirm that the matter has not
been,
discussed fairly. There must he an enlarged representation, that the people may tell
the
Government what they want.
Hon. Members who have supported Confederation have failed in showing that this is
the
time for it. They are afraid to ask the people. They have refused to do so.
Much has been said; more will be said. I have listened, and have heard high―sounding
words, and inflated tautology of this and that Hon. Member, which reminds me of soap―bubbles,
which, though beautiful by the reflection of the sun's prismatic colours, are equally
remarkable
for their rotundity and their emptiness.
The Hon. MR. BARNARD said:―Sir, in rising to support the
motion of the Hon. and learned Attorney—General, I can but express my
feelings of pleasure in being permitted to take a part in the great work in
hand-that of hewing off the rough corners of the block which has come to us
from the hands of the Executive, and which, after receiving the finishing
touch at the bands of the people, will become the key-stone of the great
Confederation arch which will, ere twelve months, extend from ocean to
ocean. The terms as sent down by His Excellency are, I consider, a fair
subject of congratulation The manner in which they have been received by
this House and the people is another subject of congratulation; and the paucity
and utter idleness of the arguments used by the opposition, represented in
this House as it is by the talent of the opposing party in the country, are
also subjects of congratulation to His Excellency, this House, and the
country. It is wrong, Mr. President, to Charge the desire for Confederation
on the part of its promoters to a desire for change. So far as my constituency
and the adjoining ones on the Mainland are concerned, I may say safely that
such was not the case—we accepted the Organic Act constituting this Council,
and agreed to work it out to its legitimate end; and we have not
countenanced nor have we been subjected to the many changes which other
parts of this Colony have. I desire, before going further, to allude to a charge
commonly made against my countrymen—often offensively put—but yesterday put
by the Hon.
CONFEDERATION DEBATE.
41 Mr. Wood, in his usual gentlemanly way. It is that of
"Canadian proclivity" As a native- born Canadian, in common with
others, I love the land of my birth. We admire her institutions and revere
her laws; but we never forget the land of our adoption, and we would no more
consent to see her wronged by Canada than would the tens of thousands of
Englishmen who have made Canada their home, permit a wrong to he done her by
England.
It is also wrong and contrary to fact that, "so anxious are we for Confederation that
we
would accede to any terms proposed." During the past three years, I have been one
of the
foremost in advocating the cause of Confederation; and, in so doing, throughout the
interior
of the Colony, I am free to confess I never uttered such a sentiment; and, in justice
to my
fellow-countrymen in particular, and the advocates of this cause in general, I will
say that
I never heard any one express a desire that this Colony should be confederated, except
on
such terms as might, on investigation, be found to be just and beneficial.
We desire Confederation with Canada, because we believe that it will be to the interest
of this Colony to unite with the progressive Colonies to the east. That they are progressive
I assert, and as proof I point to the fact that, previous to Confederation, Canada
proper had
expended $184,000,000 on public works, principally in building canals. Up to 1869,
$170,000,000
had been expended in railways. She pays to-day $300,000 yearly for her ocean steam
mail
service alone, and her enterprise is followed by her people. Her manufactures are
increasing
yearly, and even now she is exporting cloths to England, and competing there with
cheap
labour. One firm alone, composed of men who landed in Canada penniloss, now has $9,000,000
invested in ocean steamers, employing 4500 men, and thus sustaining 22,000 persons.
Among
the objections urged by Hon. Members against Confederation is our proximity to the
United
States. This, I hold, is no objection. Canadians are not taught to fear competition
with the
United States. The general feeling there is that we can hold our own (except in point
of
numbers) with her in any direction whatever. It is to her we look for a great portion
of our
trade, and the advantages of such trade are mutual. Â
The question is often asked: "What are the immediate advantages to be derived by us
from Confederation? " My reply is that, in addition to the amount paid us by way of
subsidies,
we will save by a reduction in the tariff and by importing Canadian manufactures,
a very
considerable sum, thus reducing our taxation. Next, the terms propose that $1,000,000
be spent
on a waggon-road to be commenced immediately and completed in three years, thus causing
over $300,000 a year to be spent.
Hon. gentlemen will recollect that in 1801. 1862, and 1863, immigration poured in
on us,
caused by the report of rich discoveries in Cariboo, and by a knowledge on the part
of those
coming that the Government was spending large sums on public works, and that those
who
failed in the mines might   fall back on the roads to replenish their purses; and
many who are
now permanent settlers in the interior acknowledge that they made their " farm stake
" there.
How much more is this likely to be the case if the larger works contemplated in the
terms are
carried out.
Then, Sir, look at the construction of a Railway. You may judge of the magnitude of
the
work by the following figures. There were employed on the Central Pacific at one time
25,000
men and 6,000 teams; 600 tons of material were forwarded daily to the point of construction;
30 vessels in harbour at one time, loaded with material; the wharves at San Francisco
and
Sacramento loaded with railway iron; 70 locomotives landed, and 700 cars built to
carry on
the work on construction account; no less than 30 sawmills in operation at one point
at one
time. The enterprise that set this enormous trade in motion is not one of greater
magnitude
than will be the work undertaken on this side, and if our farmers and population generally
do
not profit, and that immediately, by the carrying on of such enterprises as these
let them
succumb, for I know of no state of prosperity that can help them. I contend the benefits
of Confederation, in these respects at least, will be immediate. But Hon. Members
have said
"the United States will derive the benefit." If that argument holds good, why not
tell the
merchants of Wharf Street to close their doors because foreign manufacturers reap
a part of
the benefit of their trade. Better, a great deal, for the opponents of this cause
to advise the
farmers to cultivate every inch of their farms and garner up their crops, for the
day assuredly
will come when they will have ample market for all they can raise.
It has been urged here that Canada cannot retain her population, much less the immigration
that comes to her shores, In this, Sir, there is considerable truth, although
the Hon. and
CONFEDERATION DEBATE.
42
learned Member for Victoria has not put the matter fairly before this House. In giving
the
number of passengers going from Canada to the United States, he has omitted to give
you the
number of those passing from the States into Canada. One reason why Canada has not
retained
the whole number of emigrants landed on her shores, is that they find greater attractions
in
the treeless prairies of the Western States than in the heavily timbered lands of
Canada.
This, Sir, has ever been a serious drawback to her. But now the case is different.
Having
acquired the vast territories of the great North-West, she will open them to settlement,
and
then she will have inducements to offer such as cannot be boasted of by any other
country in
the world. Open those millions of acres to the settler, and you will see such a rush
of immigration—not only from the older countries of Europe, but from the United States—as
will
astonish the world, and stand unparalleled in the history of immigration. Canada's
hardy sons
who have left their homes for the Western States—allured by the advantages of prairie
over
wooded lands—will join in swelling the numbers, and once more plant their feet on
British
soil.
The difficulties of defence have been spoken of as a formidable obstacle. Sir, she
never
regarded them in any such light. Canada has no fears in that direction. She relies
on the
thorough good understanding that has existed between herself and the United States
for so
long a period, as a guarantee for the future. Their interests are so identical that
they cannot
afford to quarrel. The troubles between them heretofore have been on England's account,
and
not Canada's, as witness the Trent affair, and the more recent Fenian invasion, which
was
rather a stab at England than an attack on Canada. During the recent fratricidal war
in
the United States, Canada had a difficult part to play in maintaining strict neutrality,
yet she
came out unscathed. It must be remembered, also, that Canada possesses in her canal
system
a powerful lever—a guarantee for peace—vastly more potent than fortifications. The
great
bulk of the produce of the Western States finds its way to the ocean through Canadian
channels,
which could be closed at any moment.
As to that "other issue" (I will not use the word that has been so freely used outside),
I
have no tears for Canada or this Colony either. It used to be fashionable here, in
early days,
to associate the name of Canada with rebellion. It was the result of prejudice and
ignorance,
and was a great mistake.
I recently read, Sir, an account of a meeting held in one of our principal Canadian
cities,
on the occasion of a Sabbath school convention. An American gentleman was engaged
in
addressing the house, filled to its utmost capacity. In the course of his remarks,
having
occasion to refer to Her Most Gracious Majesty the Queen, he added:—"American though
I
am, I can with all my heart say, ' God bless the Queen.' " Immediately, Sir, without
any preconcerted action, the. entire audience of men, women, and children rose to
their feet
and sung
the National Anthem. That gentleman said, that such a spontaneous, hearty, and unanimous
outburst of loyalty was probably never heard before.
Such, Sir, is the kind of loyalty we were taught in Canada; such is the kind that
is
being taught to the rising generation of the new Dominion to-day; and I leave it to
you as to
whether there is room for that "other issue " or not.
Before concluding. Sir, I would wish to remark with reference to the charge made by
the
Hon. Member for Victoria District against the Hon. Attorney-General, that his conversion
to
Confederation was late. Iknow that it is impossible to make some Honourable Members
believe anything good of Officials, whether in respect of Confederation or anything
else. But I
simply desire to relate this fact. I had occasion to go into the Hon. Attorney-General's
office
in 1867, and he then showed me a letter, written by himself, in favour of Confederation;
and
after perusing that letter I felt convinced that when, in his estimation, the proper
time arrived,
the cause, would have a warm and sincere advocate in the Attorney-General. I mention
this
in order to show that the Hon. Member for Victoria District has no right to arrogate
to
himself that he was the only man who was far-seeing enough to recognize the advantages
of
Confederation three years ago, and as a reproof to him for finding fault with the
position taken
by Hon. Official Members on this question now.
To sum up, Sir, I say that amongst the statesmen of Canada we may safely look for
men
fully competent to control the affairs of a young nation. They are men of as much
ambition
and grasp of thought as are the rulers in the adjoining States; and, depend upon it,
nothing
CONFEDERATION DEBATE.43
will be left undone to advance the prosperity and well-being of every portion of their
vast
Dominion. We may safely repose full confidence in them. England has done so, or she
would
never have committed the well-being of four millions of her subjects to their care.
They can steer the good ship "Dominion" and hold her on her way. She will receive
many a shock, "but 'twill be of the waves, and not the rock."
The Hon. MR. HUMPHREYS, Member for Lillooet, said :—Mr.
President, It is not my intention to occupy the attention of the House at
any great length. I shall pass in review rapidly the arguments for and
against Confederation, as they have been used by Hon. Members who have
spoken during the progress of this debate.
It seems to me, Sir, that the people and their interests have been entirely ignored
throughout the discussion of this question, and perhaps intentionally. I refer to
the subject
of
Responsible Government ["Hear, hear," from
Mr DeCosmos],
The Hon. MR. HUMPHREYS which has up to this stage been
all but lost sight of. l, Sir, am one of those men who believe in the people.
I remember that in opening; this debate, the Hon. Attorney-General invoked the Divine
blessing upon the work upon which we were then entering. This was high-sounding, and
a
very nice picture to look at, but it does not wear well without that strict attention
to the
divine rights of the people, which is inalienable from true political economy.
I have a distinct recollection of most Hon. Members now occupying an official position
at
this Council Board, and of the positions which they occupied when first they came
to this
Colony. I have often asked myself what entitles these Hon. Members to govern this
Colony;
but I have never been able to answer myself satisfactorily, I am perfectly ready to
admit the
ability of Executive Members as individuals. The learned eloquence of the Hon. Attorney-
General has always, since 1 have had the honour to sit at this Council Board, impressed
me
with a deep sense of the advantage of thorough forensic training; and the power and
force of
the reply of the Hon, the Chief Commissioner has ever and again made me feel with
especial
force the utter hopelessness of combating stern official reticence with even the most
brilliant
powers of oratory. Yet, Sir, whatever our admiration for individual excellence, however
great
our estimation of personal worth, the question has still remained unanswered, and,
in my
opinion, unanswerable. What is there in the collective wisdom of these Honourable
Official
Members that entitled them to arrogate to themselves the right to rule? Are they,
I ask, the
dominant race, and are the people serfs?
We have heard a great deal about absorption, and the danger of the larger body swallowing
up the smaller. I think about as much of that danger as I do of the other evil
threatened
in such earnest and thrilling language by the Hon. Member for Victoria, namely, that
our
salmon would be under Confederation, and the protection from salmon nets that would
be
extended to them, increase and multiply to such an extent that they would absorb all
the
smaller fish. I, however, to speak seriously, doubt very much if the Hon. Member can
cite
a single example in history of the larger absorbing the lesser. unless the larger
possessed
better qualifications, as in the case of the absorption by British Columbia of Vancouver
Island.
Sir, we must give up all personal prejudices, and we must bend our minds to the establishment
of a great British Empire upon this Pacific Coast.
Lord Macaulay says that "Governments are made for the people, and not the people for
the Governments." Yet, Sir, how different seems to he the course of reasoning in this
Colony.
Here we have a strange compound of sickly representation and unpoular officialdom.
The want
of Responsible Government has become intolerable; the people have ceased to respect
the
Government, and the Government seem to be doing their best to educate the people up
to hating
the officials. There is to my mind, Sir, no necessity for the continuance of such
a state of
things; only let the people's voice be heard, and there will be a change. The overwhelming
preponderance of the official element in this Council, and the presence in the Legislative
body
of officials who are paid by the people, and yet are not responsible to them, is the
real cause
of the alienation of the hearts of the people from the Government. The votes of these
Hon.
gentlemen must always oscillate between their own interests and what their own consciences
dictate to them as for the good of the country. It is our duty, Sir, to bring back
the hearts
of the people. We must have a Government by and for the people. This is what I believe
the
people really require, and this and more. if necessary, the Government must be prepared
to
give them. The people of this Colony will consent to no arrangement which has not
for its
44
CONFEDERATION DEBATE.
foundation—Responsible Government. We must be prepared to pull down and demolish the
old structure, in order to rear up one that shall endure—as a Government secure in
the
affections of the people only can endure. I warn Hon. gentlemen that they must endeavour
to recover the wills of the people; then, and not till then, will return that prosperity
which we
all desire to see.
I hope, Sir, that the Executive will not attempt to make any arrangement with the
Dominion Government which does not include popular self-government. The people will
never
accept Confederation without Responsible Government.
We must first get the tree-Responsible Govermnent—and we may afterwards, with some
reason, hope to get the fruit. I say, Sir, that it is a gross libel upon the intelligence
of the
people of this Colony, to say that we are not fitted for self-government. In no country
can
you find men better capable of governing themselves, and of managing their own affairs,
than
in this Colony. I hold, Sir, that the greatest enemies of the people are those who
always
endeavour to blazon forth their learning. I am proud to say that I am of the people.
My
education, if not of so high a culture as that of some Hon. Members of this House,
has at
least enabled me, up to this time, to make my own way in the world, unaided by official
pay
and without the assistance of official favour or influence. And when I hear Hon. Members
speaking of the people as a class unfit for self-government. I find it difficult to
believe that
such a set of men are the same as have been speaking before, in this House and outside,
on
Confederation.
In conclusion, Sir, I say fearlessly that Responsible Government is a sine qua non in the
terms of Confederation. Place what conditions you will before the people, without
the condition
of Responsible Government, and Confederation is killed.
Confederation means to Official Members a pension; to the people it means self-government;
and I say, Sir, that above all things, we must keep in view the absolute necessity
of keeping
control of our own local affairs, otherwise Confederation would be useless to the
country;
and I warn Hon. Members at the other side of the House, that to exclude Responsible
Government from the terms is to ensure defeat for the whole Confederation scheme when
it
comes
before the people at the polls.
The Hon. MR. CARRALL, Member for Cariboo, said :—Mr.
President, I did not intend to open my lips during this debate; indeed, I am
left with very little to say by the Honourable gentlemen who have preceded
me. I have taken notes with a view, it those assertions which were put forth
were not answered, of replying to them.
For three days I have sat at this Board and heard discussions pro and con. I have heard
nearly every word; certainly every argument which Honourable Members on both sides
have
adduced ; especially have I listened to every argument of those who are in opposition,
and I
believe that nothing remains unanswered—in fact, but a few crumbs are left for me.
Another
reason why I did not desire to make a speech is that my principles are pretty thoroughly
known, and I deem it almost a work of supererogation to reiterate my sentiments.
But as this debate as to whether we should go into Committee or not has taken such
a
serious turn, I think it right and proper to say a few words. Whoever knows me through
this
Colony, or through British North America, knows that my principles have never changed
on
this great Confederation question. I have always maintained that the fragments of
empire lying loose, so to speak, in British North America, east and west of the Rocky
Mountains, should be united and consolidated under one Government. The question of
the
Confederation of the whole Colonial Empire of Great Britain is one that has always
appeared
to me to be replete with the greatest interest, and I trust that I may be spared to
see this
consolidation consummated.
With regard to the advantages that Confederation will bring to British Columbia, it
is
almost forbidden, ground, for the advantages are in reality part of the Resolutions.
If I allude
to them I am forestalling the debate on terms; and as I should not be in a position
to prove
anything which is in futurity, I had perhaps better abstain from touching upon the
subject.
However, this much I will say, that, after sentiment and loyalty are disposed of,
it becomes a
question of advantage.
The terms sent down to this House, in my opinion, warrant our acceptance of them in
their entirety; but if the House think otherwise, I may, I am sure, go so far as to
say that
CONFEDERATION DEBATE. 45
the Executive are open to receive suggestions, and that there will be no objection
to adopt
any suggestions which will not be likely to jeopardize the success of the whole scheme.
In this
conviction, I do not propose to go over the ground that has already been taken up.
But I
must allude to what I cannot help calling the feeling of over-care and caution which
has been
displayed throughout this debate.
I believe, Mr. President, that you are an Englishman, and as a nation I think you
express
too much caution, fear, and anxiety with respect to the course which Canada might
pursue.
I do not speak personally, but such appears to me to be the characteristic quality
of Englishmen, and it has especially cropped out during this debate. I say that I
believe we
are treating
with a far-seeing, fair-dealing set of men who would never forfeit their word, statesmen
who
would be incapable of offering "mean conditions," even if we of British Columbia would
accept
them. They will give us terms to make us happy and contented. Another reason for our
feeling confidence in the future is that we shall have under these terms, as the Hon.
Member for
Victoria District says, an enormous proportion of Representatives at Ottawa, and I
presume
that each of these Representatives will have a voice and the gift of speech.
It is fair to augur that the Dominion statesmen will give us what will make us contented
and prosperous. In touching upon this point, I should like to make an historical allusion,
and
for example I would refer to the present condition of the Union between Great Britain
and
Ireland. ["hear, hear," from
Dr. Helmcken.]
The Hon. MR. CARRALL When Hon. gentlemen say "Hear, hear." they
may think I have given an unapt illustration. We, however, know that the number of
Ireland's
representatives, amounting to something over one hundred, have enabled the Irish members
of
the British House of Commons to hold the balance of power and the bulk of patronage
between
the great contending political parties, and by swaying between the Gladstones and
Disraelis, or
other leaders of the day, they have frequently been able. to turn the scale so as
to obtain what
they desired. and to secure a liberal share of the patronage to office. I maintain,
Sir, in this
connection, that if British Columbia found that by reason of her small representation-large
in comparison with the representation of the different States in the Congress of America—I
say, that if British Columbian Members found that there was any disposition to tyrannize
in
the Dominion House of Commons, which I do not for one moment fear, they could make
common
cause with other small maritime Provinces against Canada proper. To quote the words
of the
Hon. Chief Commissioner, I believe that British Columbia will be a pet Province of
the Confederacy. I try, Sir, to avoid speech-making; the time for that will be in
Committee.
I do
not hope to sway a single vote by any remarks that I make. I believe that every Hon.
Member
came here previously prepared to vote one way or the other, and I do not think any
eloquent
orators, and much less any feeble words of mine, will cause one of them to change
his opinion.
But I make a speech in order that a record may be taken of it, and my constituents
may be
able to see that I was not dumb. I believe, I say, that all Hon. Members came down
with their
opinions formed, as to whether the amendment of the Hon. and learned Member for Victoria,
or the proposition of the Hon. and learned Attorney-General, which was so ably put
before us,
should be carried. I sincerely hope, however, that Hon. Members will join me in voting
down
the amendment and in supporting the motion of the Hon. Attorney-General. This is emphatically,
the question of the day and the policy of the Government should meet with a
liberal and
warm support from every Member of this Council, in order that: the question may be
fairly
brought before the people for final decision.
And here, Sir, with the permission of the House, I will say one word upon the course
pursued by the Government. The Executive Council have been actuated by motives of
duty
only. They have brought down these Resolutions, based on a broad view of the whole
subject,
and they ask you to make suggestions and additions. [
Dr. Helmcken - "No, they don't"]
The Hon. MR. CARRALL Yes,
Sir, I maintain that the Executive do so, and I will maintain it with my last breath.
The
Executive are prepared to consider, and it possible give effect to, every amendment
or suggestion
of this Council, provided it does not jeopardize the success of the scheme with the
Canadian
Government. The final verdict must: come from the people, and I can safely maintain
that
nothing could be fairer.
Among things brought up in the course of this debate, the questions of Tariff and
Responsible Government occupy prominent positions. I think the Hon. Member for Victoria
District
has taken right ground, when he said that it was competent for the Dominion Government
to
alter and amend the tariff so as to protect every vested interest in this Colony.
I am no lawyer,
46 CONFEDERATION DEBATE.
but I believe the Canadian statesmen are sufficiently far-seeing to take care that
not an interest
in this Colony shall suffer by the Resolutions which we are about passing. With regard
to the
Dominion Tariff, people thought that the abrogation of the Reciprocity Treaty was
the death-
knell of the independence of Canada. I have lived, however, to see her more prosperous
by that
abrogation. It has taught her to develop her own resources, and to become self-reliant.
After
she was prevented from going to the United States, by that abrogation, she turned
her attention
to her own resources, and I believe she is now going to be one of the most progressive
nations
upon the earth. Undoubtedly, she is determined to progress westward, until she reaches
British
Columbia and the Pacific; and with all her progressive tendency she will not abate
one jot of
the loyalty for which, now as ever, she is distinguished.
Now, with regard to Responsible Government. ["Hear, hear," from
Mr. DeCosmos.]
The Hon. MR. CARRALL I
desire to touch lightly upon this subject in passing, because I have been told that
my popularity
has suffered by some remarks to which I gave utterance in this House upon a previous
occasion.
Much as I value popularity, I must on this question express my honest and conscientious
opinion
as an individual. I believe that I was the first to break ground on the question of
Responsible
Government, in connection with Confederation. I did it, not hastily or thoughtlessly,
but on
conviction; and I maintain that so long as I do it honestly, I am free to say what
I please, as
an individual, upon this matter. I do not believe, Sir, that, with our present population,
with our
people scattered over a vast extent of thinly populated country, and having regard
to the various
conflicting interests consequent on remoteness from the centre, the principle of Responsible
Government cannot be satisfactorily applied to this community at present. I believe
entirely
in the ability and fitness of the Anglo-Saxon race to govern themselves; but I say
that the time
has not yet arrived under which that particular form of government, generally known
as Responsible, can be satisfactorily worked in this Colony. I believe that the scheme
foreshadowed
by
the Governor for Representative Govermnent will be the best that, under present circumstances,
the Colony can have. The popular members under that system will have a clear majority,
and,
consequently, the people will have the control of the purse-strings. I do not speak
these words
as a member of the Executive Council, but as the expression of my own deliberate opinion.
Sir,
I was not sent here pledged to any particular platform. My constituents had confidence
in me,
and were content that I should act on my own judgment. Speaking officially, I say
that Responsible Government is not a question of Union. The Act of Union gives us
the exclusive
right to
alter our own laws with respect to everything connected with the internal and local
Government
of the Province, so long as the Federal prerogative, if I may so call it, is not infringed.
If the
majority of the people want Responsible Government after Confederation, neither Governor
Musgrave nor any other power on earth can prevent their having it. It is unfounded,
unfair,
and unjust, on the part of those who are opposed to the Government on the question
of Confederation, to endeavour to put any other complexion upon the matter.
With respect, Mr. President, to the remarks about Cabinet Ministers and Executive
Councillors, which have fallen from certain Hon. Members, I will only refer to the
work
that the
Executive have laid before this House. From the general approbation which has been
tendered,
both in this House and on the outside, to the terms of Confederation which have been
sent down
by the Executive, I think that I am fairly entitled to assume that our labour has
not been in
vain, and that it has given satisfaction. I thank this Council for the words of
encouragement
and approbation with which they have accepted these conditions, especially those who
have
endorsed them. No one—not even the Hon. Member for Victoria City—can say that it
is not
the wish of the people that this question should be discussed, and ultimately dealt
with by
the people.
A charge has been preferred by the Hon. Member for Victoria District, against the
Hon.
Attorney—General and the Hon. Chief Commissioner, to the effect that they had turned
their
coats and changed since they had given votes upon Confederation in this House upon
a former
occasion. If they have changed, I maintain that upon conviction they are not to be
blamed for
doing so. It was well known that the Hon. gentleman had stated, or at all events I
have always
so understood it, had a telegram, or some other information from head-quarters, more
than a
year ago, to the effect that the Dominion Government were not prepared to negotiate
terms of
Confederation with this Colony, until after the settlement of the Red River question,
which was
then pending with the Hudson's Bay Company. The Hon. Attorney-General and the Hon.
Chief
Commissioner took this same ground last year. They were of opinion that nothing could
be
CONFEDERATION DEBATE. Â 47
done to further Confederation satisfactorily, until the sovereignty of the Dominion
was established in the North-West Territory. Both assured me privately that they were
in favour
of
Confederation, and I say that they entered into the consideration of the scheme without
mention
of pensions being secured to them. Who, I ask, are Confederates? The people most unquestionably;
and could we, the people of this Colony, ever have made Confederation a successful
issue
unless it had been taken up by Government? His Excellency Governor Musgrave has done
nothing but what Prime Ministers do every day, in making this a Government question.
On
the part of the Government, I cordially invite the assistance, co-oporation, and earnest
deliberation of all Members of the Council to the scheme—a good one—and after we have
done
our best
with it, we must leave it to the people.
Before I close my remarks. Sir, I must allude to what fell from the Hon. Member for
Victoria City, whose opinion and lightest remarks are always received and listened
to by this
House with the greatest deference and respect, and every wrinkle of whose brow is
a notch
in the calendar of a well―spent life, for whose character as an individual I have
the highest
reverence and esteem. I cannot but say, however, that in my opinion, and I believe
in the
opinion of this House, what the Hon. gentleman did say about another possible issue
was ill-
timed, inopportune, and unhappy; and, Sir, I deem it my duty as a Member of the Executive
Council to say, that if he did intend to foreshadow the idea that the other union,
to which he
made ill―timed allusion, could ever be an issue in this Colony, he entirely misrepresented
the
views of the Executive Council. In this connection I desire to say that, in common
with the
Chief Commissioner, I feel a great respect for our neighbours of the Great Republic.
I honour
the country and its institutions; particularly I esteem the people of America in the
exercise of
national and domestic relations. They are true Anglo-Saxons. They are at this moment
lavishing an amount of hospitality on Prince Arthur, which would do honour to any
nation.
But,
whilst professing great respect for the people and for the Government of the United
States, I
confess that I do not like their political institutions. I have many friends in America,
and
I have spent some time there myself, in their military service, but I left America
a greater
Canadian than ever. And I say, Sir, that I deem the action taken by certain foreigners
here,
in getting up a petition, which has perhaps been brought into more prominent notice
than it
was entitled to, exceedingly unhappy, and I know that I speak the sentiments of my
constituents
when I say so. These foreigners have received every hospitality, and have been treated
with
respect and liberality in this Colony. They enjoyed all the rights and privileges
to which they
would have been entitled in their own country, and perhaps more; they have acted foolishly
towards the flag that sheltered them, and have abused the hospitality which has been
extended
to them in getting up this petition. If any British subjects signed it, I consider
them unworthy
of the name; they would be better in the chain―gang.
I must refer once again to the Hon. Member for Victoria City. He said that patriotism
was
dead in this Colony; that interest and self-interest was paramount, and that the dollar
was
supreme, and was the only patriotism. [
Dr. Helmcken—" What? what? I said nothing of the
kind."]
The Hon. MR. CARRALL I maintain that the words were used, and I say that the Hon. Member misunderstood
or misrepresented the feelings of the people of this Colour in saying so. It is, perhaps,
unbecoming in me, who have not the stake in the country, and who have not the status,
domestic, monetary, or political, of most other gentlemen round this Council Board,
and who
have, comparatively speaking, but lately come to the Colony, to express an opinion;
but nevertheless I do say that patriotism is not dead in this Colony, and that the
people are
as patriotic,
noble, and generous―hearted as any other people in the world.
Hon. Mr Helmcken—Sir, I rise to a question of privilege. I
cannot allow the Hon. Member to make a speech about something I did not say
without correcting him. I said that this Colony had no love for Canada; the
bargain for love could not be; it can only be the advancement of material
interests which will lend to union.
Hon. Mr. Carrall—I maintain, Sir, that I have not in any
wayexaggerated what the Hon. gentleman did say; and I conclude by saying
that the people of British Columbia are loyal, honourable, and true, and
when they give their adhesion to the Dominion they will uphold the British
flag, they always have upheld—
" The flag that has braved a thousand years
The battle and the breeze."
48
CONFEDERATION DEBATE.
The Hon. Mr ALSTON, Registrar—General, said :—Sir, I should
not have risen to attempt to make a speech at this late hour, had it not
been from the peculiar position which I occupy in this Council, and I feel
that I ought to apologise for detaining the House, even for a few minutes,
after the very exhaustive arguments on both sides have been heard with such
patient attention.
As I am neither one of the Executive, nor a Representative Member of this House, I
have
to satisfy my own conscience, and as it is probable I may not have another opportunity
of
expressing my opinion on the principle of Confederation with Canada, I must beg leave
to say
a few words.
It will be unnecessary to follow up the subject at any length, as I believe that the
principle
of Confederation has been virtually conceded. I give the Hon. Member for Victoria
District all
the credit that may be due for the consistent way in which he has agitated this question
for
years past, and probably the reason why the matter was not earlier brought to a successful
issue
through that agitation, was that either he did the right thing in the wrong way, or
that he lived
before his time. From 1867 to the present time, the question has been discussed in
successive
sessions of the Council, and it has been declared in effect that, at some future time,
Confederation
would be of advantage to this Colony. The Imperial Government have now spoken out
unmistakeably in the matter, and have decided that Confederation shall take place.
It seems
that
those who have the power to shape the destinies of this Colony have decided that it
is to take
a part in the great scheme of Confederation of the British North American Colonies,
and have
not hesitated to throw the whole weight of their enormous influence in the scale to
effect this
object; the Canadian Parliament manifestly urge this matter as a necessary part of
the scheme;
and last, though not least, a large portion of the people of this Colony cry aloud
for it as a
panacea for all their ills. Downing Street has not hesitated to guide and control
the opinions
of Her Majesty's servants in this Colony. Whether this be wise or prudent on the part
of the
Secretary of State for the Colonies, in view of the present constitution of this Colony,
it is not
for me to say, but it is of no use blinding our eyes to the fact that they who have
the power
will—and for aught I know should—exercise it.
It was fitting, then, that the Executive of this Colony should take the initiative
and undertake the responsibility of placing the matter before the countrv in a tangible
shape,
I rejoice
that they have done so, and that the working out of the basis of arrangements has
fallen into
so able hands, for what other party have the power to do so? If they had not preoccupied
the
ground, who is there? What part is there in this small community commanding sufficient
general respect that could have undertaken this important duty, with any chance of
success?
Now, Sir, the Resolutions before us form no final measure, no unavoidable and perfected
conditions I look upon them simply as the basis of arrangement—the initial step in
the
negotiation of the business. If it had been otherwise—if these were proposed as final
conditions.
upon which the people of the Colony would he allowed to pass no vote, over which they
would
exercise no control; if the Government had said to this Council, you shall have these
terms or
none. I would have voted against them or retired from this Assembly. But the Governor
has
declared that they shall be submitted to a popular vote, and ratified by a really
representative
and reconstructed Council.
That being so, I can give them my conscientious support, not only because I deem it
to be
my duty to support every well—considered Government measure, but because I believe
them to
be, as far as they go, reasonable, fair, and advantageous. Before now, a Government
measure
has claimed a support, but a reluctant one; in this case it is not so, I trust I may
be allowed
to render my small tribute of thanks to the Hon. Member for Victoria City, who with
great
self—denial has undertaken an unenviable position, one which, of necessity, would
lay himself
open to attack and misrepresentation; but one in which he has done and can do great
service
to his country. I think I can see, in the Resolutions before me, evidences of this
service; traces
of his handiwork; and although he cannot give the measure his support, I feel sure,
though I
desire not to penetrate the secrets of that mysterious chamber, that he has done all
in his power
to render them as beneficial, or rather, as the Hon. Member himself would say, as
little hurtful
as he could to the best interests of the Colony.
When this subject came up for discussion, in the last Session of this Council, I joined
those
who were supposed to form the Confederate party, and moved the following Resolution
:—
" That however desirable Confederation with Canada may hereafter become, this Council
believes
that until the great Territory intervening between this Colony and the Dominionis
transferred to the
Crown, and contains a larger and more settled population, it would be premature to
express any
definite opinion on the subject."
CONFEDERATION DEBATE. 49
It is unnecessary for me to say anything in favour of the principle of Confederation.
It is
admitted in the Resolution which I have just read. I take it, Sir, that the obstacle
there referred
to will be speedily removed; that the small band of disaffected spirits will soon
disperse, and
that the machinery of Government will shortly be put in motion; and though I do not
take
pleasure, like the Hon. Member on my left, in revolution, political hatred, agitation,
and blood
and thunder generally, I am not disposed to regret the occurrence of the difficulty
in the Red
River, for it will teach the Canadian Government, and the Imperial Government, and
all Governments, that though you may buy and sell territories, you cannot transfer
the human
beings
therein, like so many serfs and chattels, to a fresh allegiance with impunity; that
the consent
of the people must be first obtained; and that though the soil may be sold, the soul
is free.
This measure was, to a certain extent, forced upon the Government by the people of
this Colony.
It is said that the people clamour for a change in the Government. Why, Sir, we have
had
changes enough during that time I have been in the Colony, to ruin any country; changes
generally for the worse. [" No, no," from
Mr. DeCosmos]
The Hon. Mr ALSTON But whether Confederation comes
or not, there is one change more which I hope to see before this year expires, and
that is a
change in the Constitution of this Council. I desire to see all the Members, save
the Executive
Officers, elected by the people; and this change is promised by the Governor.
I hope, also, that the Colony will so prosper, and the population so increase, that
before
many years another change will come, that is to say Responsible Government. At present,
I believe we are not fitted for it; it is practically impossible, and the Governor
has had the
courage to declare it. I would gladly believe that the cry for this panacea for all
evil does
not come from those who would fain jump into vacant places, and enjoy what they are
pleased
to term bloated idleness. Such pharisaic patriotism was so well exposed by my much-abused
friend at the bottom of the table (Dr. Helmcken), that I will not further allude to
it. But
I say, Sir, that if they can find public servants who will perform their duties better
and more
perfectly, let them in God's name come on. I am content, for one, to give place to
better men.
Now is the opportunity offered. But, Sir, I am rejoiced that this measure has come
down
from the Executive; it will, when accomplished, give us rest I hope from this everlasting
change.
The farmer, the artizan, the capitalist, and the merchant will know what to expect,
and will
make their plans accordingly. Years ago, the farmer naturally expected that the Free
Port
system was settled and approved of. Agitation commenced, the farmer and the merchant
could
not carry on their pursuits without anxiety, and the Colony suffered. The Free Port
was
abolished—that grand political mistake—Union with British Columbia was effected, and
a heavy
tariff imposed, and business calculations were confounded again. But this Colony and
the
people have such elastic force, that they are again beginning to settle themselves
down to the
new order of things. Business went on, it is true, but, nevertheless, it suffered;
and for the last
two years agitation has again been at work. The farmer is alarmed; he is prosperous
at
present, but he dreads (unnecessarily I think) what will be virtually to him the Free
Port
system again; and so alarm, and change, and unquietness are for ever distracting this
small
and struggling Colony, which., unless it had immense vital energy, and enormous latent
strength,
would long ago have succumbed. I see, however, in the prospect before us, a sign of
better
things—a more hopeful future—a state which when consummated will, I believe, secure
a more
settled life to the Colony.
I do not fear for the agricultural interest, for I believe the only protection which
the
farmer requires, is the protection of good roads, good laws, and an easy communication
with
the markets where he may best dispose of his produce. Self-interest, if no other reason,
will
induce the Canadian Government so to modify the Tariff as to endanger as little as
possible
the various interests, agricultural and otherwise of the Colony. I firmly believe
that Canada
will deal justly with us; at any rate, it is our duty to deal frankly and in a friendly
spirit with
the Canadians, until we see signs of a contrary spirit animating them. I am ready
to shake
hands across the Rocky Mountains with our Canadian brethren; let us not open negotiations
with clenched fists. Â
As regards the paucity of representation allowed to us in the Dominion Parliament,
after
what has been shown so clearly to us by the Hon. Member for Victoria District of the
analogous
right of representation enjoyed by the Pacific States of the American Union, I think
we cannot
rightly expect more.
50
CONFEDERATION DEBATE.
My Hon. friend on my right (Mr. Wood), who certainly has placed the objections and
arguments against Confederation forcibly before the House, says that Confederation
means
an union of equal States self—governed, and is equivalent to absorption. I doubt whether
this
is historically correct. But, Sir, whether that be so or not is beside the question,
for the
Resolutions which are before us are in fact Resolutions for the Union of this Colony with
Canada. Union is the term used in the Organic Act, and the term Confederation never once
occurs. It is Union we are seeking, not Confederation. The American States are States of
the Union, not of the Confederation, and it has been conclusively shown that in that country
the separate States are not absorbed, although united.
And again, Sir, we were told that we are selling our independence, and transferring
our
loyalty. Not a bit of it. If the people of this Colony pass the measure, surely their
verdict
is not one of slavery, unless they be slaves themselves, and yet they are free to
act. This
measure will not pass unless the people of this Colony are willing that it should,
and declare
unmistakeably that it is for their benefit. Whatever I may individually think, I shall
bow to
the free popular decision, and be prepared to believe that the vox populi is the vox dei. In so
great a measure, I trust the people may be guided to a right conclusion.
As to loyalty, I need add no more than has already been said so forcibly by the Hon.
Attorney—General and the Hon. Chief Commissioner of Lands and Works. Hemmed in to
the
north and south by a people owing a different allegiance to our own; forced back to
the sea
to west, the only direction in which loyal hearts can turn is to the rising people
of the east,
who ask us to unite in a friendly spirit with them, to form a great Nation. May that
union
prove a source of strength to us and them.
I shall give to the Government measure a hearty support, reserving, however, to myself
the right of suggesting any amendment or improvements, or of supporting any recommendations
which may appear to me to be necessary or desirable.
From the position which I hold in this Council as an officer of the Government, I
have
deemed it right to make this statement of the course which I propose to follow in
this great
and momentous subject, and I maintain it to be perfectly conscientious and perfectly
consistent
with my previous conduct.
The Hon. MR. DEWDNEY, Member for Kootenay, rose and said
:—Mr. President, I have purposely waited until this late stage of the debate
in order to avail myself of the opportunity of listening to the arguments
that have been adduced both for and against the scheme of Confederation as
sent down for our consideration by His Excellency the Governor, and particularly for
the reason that I have not been in a position (from my
longer absence in the Upper Country) of making myself acquainted with the
subject as I should like to have done.
As the debate progressed, I felt more and more that I had been right in so doing,
as I
have now the benefit of the well—considered opinions and arguments of so many Honourable
Members; and upon these able arguments l have in a great measure been guided in coming
to the conclusion which I propose to explain. '
And now, Mr. President, I think it s incumbent on me to state the course I intend
to take
with regard to the subject. Â
I feel I have a most responsible duty to perform, not only to my constituents, but
to myself
and the country generally.
With regard to my constituents. I feel that I am placed in a rather peculiar position,
and
I regret that I have had no opportunity of communicatng with them since Confederation
has
assumed the phase it now does.
You are aware, I presume, Mr. President, that I was selected, unsolicited on my part,
to
represent the Kootmay District in this Council. At that election Confederation was
made the
test question, and I can assure you that at that time the feeling of the majority
of my
constituents was opposed to Confederation with the Dominion of Canada.
At a subsequent period—only a few months ago—a petition, concocted in this city, was
dispatched to Kootenay for the purpose of obtaining signatures in favour of Confederation.
It was, however, unfavourably received, the party circulating it was roughly handled,
and the
petition returned a blank. I mention this to show you that up to a late period my
constituents
held the same views with regard to Confederation that they did some eighteen months
ago.
CONFEDERATION DEBATE. 51
Shortly after this petition had been dispatched to Kootenay, as just mentioned, I
wrote
to my constituents. requesting them to advise me fully with regard to their wants
and wishes;
and, in reply, I received a communication setting forth what they specially desired
that I
should assist in obtaining for them, but not one word on the subject of Confederation.
I have now before me the terms submitted by His Excellency the Governor at the opening
of this Council, as well as the paragraph in His Excellency's Speech referring to
those terms ;
and I must say that had i resided as near my constituents as the Honourable Members
for
Victoria and Nanaimo Cities do to their I should most certainly have south an opportunity
of meeting them and obtaining some expr .ion of their opinions on the now altered
position
of this question. But as the remoteness of my District has rendered such a course
impossible,
it is only left for me to exercise my own judgment.
I wish to cast no reflections on the Hon. Members referred to, and with regard to
the Hon.
senior Member for Victoria. I consider the action he has taken on this question only
forces
stronger and stronger on my mind, and i believe on the minds of the people. that any
matter
entrusted to his care will alw be dealt with conscientiously, and with due regard
to the
feelings which he believes his constituents entertain,
Had I had an opportunity of submitting to my constituents the question of Confederation
in the light that it now bears, I do believe that their opinions would he in unison
with that of
the country generally, in favour of Confederation on the terms now proposed, and being
of that
impression I intend to support the motion of the Hon. Attorney-General I feel assured
that
the vote which I am about to give will meet with the approval of my constituents.
I should feel some hesitation in supporting the motion of the Hon, Attorney-General,
were
it not for the assurance : ven in His Excelleiicy's Speech, that the action we may
now take
will not be final until ratified by the general verdict of the people.
I trust I have now stated openlv and fairly the position in which I stand, and the
course
I intend to pursue. l propose, Mr. I resident, to support Confederation with terms,
and I believe
that is the stand that will be taken by all the Hon. Members who support Confederation
at all.
With regard to the terms proposed for our consideration, it will be open for me to
discuss
them more particularly in Committee ; but I may here state generally, that I Consider
they are
only what the country is fairly entitled to demand, and I shall support them probably
as they
stand; and, at the same time, shall be ready to give my vote to any address that may
be
forwarded to His Excellency, recommending the insertion of other terms that I believe
may
be advantageous to the Colony.
Mr. President I must now thank you for the kind attention you have shewn me in listening
to the few remarks I have felt bound to make; and I have now only to say, that as
soon
as the terms are decided upon by this Honourable Council, and placed in the hands
of His
Excellency, I, for one, shall feel perfectly confident that future negotiations will
be brought to
a successful issue.
I have acted conscientiously in this matter, and I am sure I shall not regret the
action I
have taken as long as I live.
The Hon. Mr. HELMCKEN, Member for Victoria, in reply, said:—Mr.
President, every word that I spoke I am willing to abide by, but I have no
wish to be misrepresented. I never said that patriotism was dead in ibis
Colony ; and I have not yet advocated that closer union with another
country, to which allusion has been made, as the other issue to come before the
people ; but a strong feeling does exist in favour of that other union, and
it is just as well that the Dominion Government should know that there are
very many people in this Colony who think that Annexation would be far more
advantageous than Confederation, and who have no love for Canada. I maintain
that the people of this Colony do not desire Confederation ; they desire
these glittering terms; take away or reduce the terms, and the people don't want
Confederation—will not have it. I have never seen any programme
proposed by the Confederation party, and it is certainly to the credit of
the Government that it has sent one down [hear, hear,] which has taken even
the Confederationists by surprise. I once saw a scheme brought before this
House, which included no Railway, no Dry Dock, a small Subsidy, and the Dominion Tariff,
objectionable as it is acknowledged now to be. It was
defeated. The new scheme asks more, and so the country has gained by the
delay.
52
CONFEDERATION DEBATE.
But, Sir, the Hon, Members of this Council have been arguing as though these terms
had
been obtained—aerial castle building. I say they are only propositions. I have not
heard one
Member say those terms must be had, or no Confederation,
[
HON. Mr. DeCosmos,- I stated yesterday, that if certain terms were not granted I should
oppose Confederation.]
The Hon. Mr. HELMCKEN I expect to see you an opponent of Confederation before long ; probably we shall
change
sides [Laughter] ; but until these terms, or terms that will be satisfactory to the
country, are
arranged I shall not cease my opposition to Confederation. I think it necessary to
say a few
words in explanation of my position. I do stand here a Member of the Executive Council.
Whether I gave in my resignation or not, is not for the Hon. Member for Victoria District
to
know ; I shall not gratify his curiosity ; he should recollect, however, that party
Government
does not exist here.
I have opposed the Government on Confederation. I think it probable that when the
terms come back from Canada they will bear but little resemblance to themselves; so
until the
country is satisfied I will oppose Confederation. It is sufficient that the ultimate
issue now
rests with the people themselves ; and I hope they will band themselves together to
demand
these or better terms.
Thus far the question is lost to me in this Council. I am: beaten by the Imperial
Government, by the Canadian Government, by Lord Granville's despatch, but more than
all
by the
alluring terms and a Government majority,—by no one else. In this Council, the Executive
Council has repeated itself. I intend now to offer no factious opposition to the conditions,
but
it will be my duty to point out what I consider faults, and though 1 will support
the terms as
they are, or nearly so, others must go in. I will not attempt to introduce anything
which
Canada cannot concede ; so that on the one hand, (hinada may have no excuse to refuse
to
accept the terms, and on the other, if Confederation does come it may come accompanied
with
conditions that will be beneficial to the material interests of the Colony. I now
bide my time;
when the terms as agreed to by Canada return, the people may find them changed, and
not so
attractive and enticing as they now appear.
The Hon. Mr. HELMCKEN After all, the Supreme Power hath made of one blood all the nations of the earth,
and
hath determined beforehand the bounds of their habitations. We are but instrmnents
in carrying out this design, whatever it may be.
In the position which I now occupy, I have sacrificed no principle, forfeited no pledge,
maintained my own honour, have done my duty, and I hope some good, to this Colony.
The Hon. ATTORNEY—GENERAL said : — Sir, in rising to reply, I
have to acknowledge and thank the members of this House for the care and
attention which they have bestowed upon this great and momentous question,
which I have had the honour to introduce to their notice.
With regard to the very decent, flattering, and personal remarks towards myself, in
which
the Hon, Member for Victoria District (Mr. DeCosmos) has been in the habit of' indulging
for
several years past, the House is so familiar with that gentleman's habit towards all
his political
opponents in that respect that it has learnt to estimate them at their proper value.
I will not,
therefore. waste the time of the House by any further comment on them. I will not
condescend to notice them [Hear, hear, hear, hear,] but proceed to subjects of mor
general
interest.
I maintain, Sir. that liberal Representative Institutions for this Colony are not
dependent
on the success of the scheme of Confederation; they are in no way connected with it,
Confederation is, however, the easiest and quietest way of getting Responsible Government,
should
that be found after deliberation to be really desired ,(l so ardently by the whole
community as
some Hon. Members aver. To those who conscientiously believe in Responsible Government,
and that the real desire of the country is for it, or as the Hon. Member for Victoria
District
says is a "unit" for it, I say fling in your voice with us; these Resolutions will
most speedily
assure the result you desire. If the people, after careful deliberation and full information
on
the subject, whether we be confederated with Canada or not, really desire Responsible
Government, they will have it. Their voice will be heard on this particular question,
as
on all others
connected with Confederation. But it is the hollowest pretence to assert that Confederation
CONFEDERATION DEBATE. Â Â 53
should be stopped till the Governor can send down a scheme for Responsible Government.
If
we do not get Confederation we shall still have our own Representative Institutions.
and once
possessed of Representative Institutions under the Imperial Statute of Victoria, the
Colony
will, if it be such a unit as described, be able at once to get Responsible or Party
Government.
Now, I earnestly deprecate, on the part of the Government, the unfair allegation which
one
Hon. Member has so improperly insinuated that the Government or Government Officials
considered the people of British Columbia unfit for self-government. Why, Sir, neither the Governor nor
any member of the Government, or any other official, ever said or thought
that the
people of this Colony were individually or collectively unfit for Responsible Government.
The
utmost that has ever been said on this side of the House has been that, under the
present circumstances of the Colony, it would be unwise, excessively costly—nay impracticable. As I
have said before, and again repeat, the Governor has no power of himself to alter
the Constitution. He can only refer it where it has already gone, to the decision
of the Queen
in
Council, which we ought in common justice to await before bringing forward any Resolution
for Responsible Government. Now, how would the country, if a unit on this point, get
Responsible Government after Confederation? After Confederation the people can have
Responsible Government, if they desire it, under clause 92 of the "British North America
Act, 1867," by which power is given for the Provinces to change their own Constitution.
The Hon. Member for Victoria City (Dr. Helmcken) has alluded to the Hon. Member for
Victoria District having prepared a scheme for Confederation, now on the Journals
of this
House, which did not contain any reference to Responsible Government, or the Overland
Railway, possibly in view of this very section 92 of the Organic Act. The Hon. Member
for
Victoria District may have considered that Confederation would, as a natural consequence
after Union, bring Responsible Government. If so, I trust he will vote with us now
[Hear,
hear, hear], and leave a matter of such importance to be settled, not by a House constituted
as this is, but by a House containing a majority of Representative Members elected
by the
country, after the question of party Government has been specially submitted to the
polls.
I ask the House to deal with this subject on its merits, apart from all side issues,
such as
the special form of the Government which is to subsist at the time of Union, which
is really
not now before us. I ask them to place a generous trust in Canada. I acknowledge the
encouraging manner in which the Council has dealt with this question, and sincerely
trust that
all parties and sections in the House, setting aside all prejudices and sectional
issues, will
unite cordially, frankly, and unanimously in giving a generous support to the Government,
and thus strengthen their hands for the country's good in all future negotiations.
[Hear, hear,
hear.]
The
Hon. Mr. Drake, junior Member for Victoria. asked permission to withdraw his
amendment.
Leave having been granted, the amendment was withdrawn.
The motion of the Hon. Attorney-General to go into Committee was then put, and carried
unanimously.
The House then went into Committee of the Whole on the Confederation Resolutions,
and
immediately rose, reported progress, and asked leave to sit again.
Leave was granted to sit again on Monday, at one o'clock.
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