A Bill to repeal an Act relating to burial grounds in the town of Saint Andrews.
A Bill to authorize the Corporation of the City of Saint John to assess inhabitants
for the purpose of an Agricultural Exhibition.
A Bill relating to the Paving of the Side-walks in the City of Saint John.
A Bill relating to the purchase of lands in the County of Westmoreland, for the purpose
of a Market place.
A Bill to amend the Act relating to the levying, assessing and collecting of rates
in the City of Saint John.
A Bill in amendment to the Act relative to Municipalities.
A Bill relating to the election of members to serve in the General Assembly.
RECEIVER GENERAL.
Hon. Mr. FISHER moved the House into Committee on a Bill relating to the Office of Receiver General.
Hon. Mr. FISHER.—The Bill explains itself, but it may be necessary for me to say a few words. After
the Union is begun, it will be necessary that we should have some person appointed
to receive the Revenues which will be paid to the Province by the General Government
of Canada, as well as those collected here, and to pay them out for the purposes required.
He will also require an office and a clerk. But as yet it is hard to say exactly what
his duties will be, and what emolument he should receive. In six or eight months the
House will meet.
DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1867. 57
again ; by that time it will be known
exactly what is required. and for this
purpose the Bill is only intended to be
of a temporary character. It may be
found necessary to make the office political, but that could be better determined
after a short experience. Some
have suggested that the name of Treasurer, which we already have would
be just as good as this, but as the other
Provinces have adopted the title of Receiver General for this officer, we have
thought it best to adopt it also. lt was
thought best not to make the salary too
high at first, and we have therefore put
it down not to exceed two thousand dollars a year. It in this respect we may
be found to have erred, it can easily
be remedied at the end of six months
or so. We have put down the Clerk's
salary at (not to exceed) one thousand
or twelve hundred dollars. As I said
before, this Bill is only intended to be
temporary. and to make provision for
the carrying out of the necessary measures at the commencement of the
Union, and at the next meeting of the
House. When the wants of the country
are known in this respect, and what the
officer should be, any change can be
made. All we now ask is that the
House put confidence in the Government for that time with regard to this
matter. As to the manner in which the
accounts shall be kept, i find that in
Nova Scotia, where they have established a similar office. they require that
there should be one cash book kept,
which is open for the inspection of the
members of the Government and Legislature, and that I think is a good arrangement.
The Government is not
wedded to the plan which they have
here laid down, but are willing to hear
any suggestions which hon. members
may please to suggest on the subject.
The office is here made non-political,
and is to be held during the pleasure
of the Government. This, I think, is
all that is necessary for me to say on the
Bill. We only want to have a law so
operative that none of the monîes
coming to us may be lost, and this Bill
is so drawn as to run with the Bill of
Union.
Mr. McQUEEN.—At first I thought
this office was intended to be political,
but l now find that it is only permissive. If the first intention had been
carried out, I should most certainly
have opposed it, for we have so many
" Generals" now, that the funds coming
to us out of the Union will not be sufficient to satisfy them all. As it is not
intended to make the office of Receiver
General political, however, i shall offer
it no opposition, as it is evident that
such an office will be required under the Union.
Mr. KERR.— I am glad to see the
Bill which is in your hand, Mr. Chairman. At first it was intended that the
office should be political, and I think it
would be very wrong to place all our
funds in the hands of a man who at any
day is liable to go out of office. For
many years our finances have in
the hands of a man, who has had the
confidence of the whole country, and
now that wo' are in a transition state,
they should be as far removed from political trials and influences as possible.
The officer to be appointed by this Bill
will have to receive the funds remitted
from Canadn twice a year, the revenues
from our Crown Lands and Export
Duty on Lumber, and to pay them out
for Bye Road and other appropriations.
His duties will be less onerous than
those of our present Treasurer, which
have been wall attendcd to, and accompanied by heavy responsibilities.
That officer has never received more
than £500 a year, and with the heavy
sureties he has had to provide this sum
was not too much. But now I think it
might be reduced somewhat. In this
connexion, too, I may say that as the
number of members in the House will
be considerably lessened, we shall he
able to get rid of some of the heads of
Departments. In Nova Scotia I find
they have combincd the offices of the
Provincial and Financial Secretaries,
and gice a salary of £600. The office
of Solicitor General is abolished, and
the same thing can be donc here, for
there will be no necessity for two
Crown officers. The salary of the Attorney-General can also be reduced.
His duties will be much lighter than
they have been—the only cases which
will occupy his attention are trespasscs
on the public domain, attending to
crimes and criminals. and the recovery
of debts due the Crown. His salary,
therefore, can be greatly reduced. In
Nova Scotia they have put it down to
£400. I merely mention this in con
nexion with other matters, and shall be
glad to see a Bill with this object
brought in. There is one thing, however, I think should be inserted in this
Bill, and that is. that the Receiver
General be required to submit to the
House a yearly statement of the funds
passing through his hands. If the Bill
had been intended to make this oflice
political, it would have been a new feature to require him, as head of a department,
to give security for the faithful
performance of his duty.
Mr. LINDSAY.—I have a little suspicion of creating these new offices. It
seems that the duties are to be decreased,
but the officers increased, so that the less
work there is to do, the more there will
be to do it, and be paid for doing it. This
morning we passed a Bill to appoint officers to collect our export duties, who are
to get a commission for it, and then hand
the amounts over to the Receiver, who
is to be paid for receiving them. I think
that a good many of these offices are more for ornament then use, for I have found
that, as a general rule, the clerks do all the work, and the heads of the department
get the pay. I don't think there is any good in having so many men with " General"
after their names. The Treasurer in Saint John now receives the funds which are collected
all over the Province, and why can't he still do it in this case. Why not have all
these money matters come into one man's hands? We have a Bill now before the House
to reduce the representation all over the Province, but that will be useless if so
many Generals are to remain on the floors of the House. We don't know anything about
the New Dominion yet, and I think it will be just as well to let the matter stand
over, at least till the Imperial Act is placed before us. There is now no need of
a Surveyor General, for the clerks in the office can do all the work, and give whatever
information is required. We have a Postmaster General, but it is said that the next
in command below him is now all astray with his accounts, and he says that it is the
fault of the clerks. I don't see why, when we have so many Generals, things should
go so much astray if they were properly looked after. We shall now want a very large
sum of money to put our Roads and Bridges in good order, and the money taken out for
the purpose of keeping up the office of Receiver General would materially assist for
that purpose. We want to open up new roads and prepare the way for an increased immigration,
but we shall not be able to do so unless the expenses are cut off in other directions.
I was talking to a Canadian a short time ago, who was down here to buy up wilderness
lands ; he said that in Canada they could not be obtained under a cost of seven dollars
an acre, and I advised him to go to the Crown Land Office and see if he could not
buy what he wanted here. The trouble with us is that all our wilderness lands lie
on the Eastern side of the river, and cannot be got at except by crossing in a canoe
or ferry of some sory
A MEMBER.—I suppose you want to
get that bridge put across at Woodstock.
Mr. LINDSAY.—Yes, and it cannot
be done without money, which, if we go on increasing the public offices, will not
be able to be obtained. I therefore think this Bill should be laid over, at least
till we have the Imperial Act of Union laid before us.
Mr. BECKWITH. —I think, Mr.
Chairman, this is a most sensible Bill;
63 DEBATES IN THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1867.
that this is a move in the right direction
Perhaps it might have been well for us to have know a little more about the Ottawa
matter, but as that is not the question now before us, we will waive all that. Some
think that it is an uncalled for expense to create this office and have one man to
receive all the provincial funds. But I have found that it is a bad thing to have
too many pockets, for in the transferring the money from one to the other there is
a great probability of its lessening every time, and hard to find some of it when
it is wanted. And os if our revenues were left to be collected all over the Province
by a number of officers, we should not be able to tell exactly how things were going
on. But with this office everything come into one pocket, and can be got at whenever
it is wanted. The office of the Receiver General should be in the neighborhood of
the Crown Land Department, where it would be convenient to receive the sums paid in
for our public domain. I really do think this is an absolutely necessary office. I
am glad that it is not to be political, for then the officer would have to be engaged
in attending to the general business of the country, while his clerks would be left
to do the work of the office. With regard to the salary, I am not one that thinks
it profitable to cut down the salaries of public officers to the lowest point, for
when work is poorly paid for it is frequently poorly done, but I think if the Receiver
General receives about sixteen hundred dollars, and his clerk six hundred dollars,
it would be about the right thing.
Mr. HIBBARD. — I have sat here for
some days and heard the murmurings about the Government not doing anything, but I
am glad they are now going to work in earnest. I think this Bill is very necessary,
and am very happy to give it my support. It is of great importance that there whould
be one officer to receive all the funds that are coming to
[..]. I do not know whether it is intendded that the Receiver General should be a member
of the Executive Council or not.
Mr. HIBBARD. — I am glad of that, for the officer would then be political, and he should be a
member of this House, and I think it best that he should stand aside. I think, however,
that the office might be combined with that of the Provincial Secretary, for that
officer will now have far less duties to perform than heretofore, and if this could
be done it would save a good deal of the £400 required for a separate officer. In
the State of Maine I think the whole thing is done at a less sum than two thousand
dollars, and we have many very efficient men who would be glad to do it for £400,
if it is
found impractical to merge it in the Provincial Secretary's office. I think the Government
are now working right, and that the Bill is good, and if we can get the work as faithfully
performed for £400 it would be a saving of £200 towards some other object. I do not
think the Government are careless of the position in which they leave us, and I fully
believe that if we husband our resources under the New Dominion, that there is not
a Province of the British Empire that will have more money for local purposes than
New Brunswick. But if we go to work and create a lot of offices at large salaries,
we shall embarrass ourselves completely for it must be borne in mind that we have
nothing to fall back upon, but what we get from Canada and our public domain, and
I am sure that, with proper management, our Crown Lands would pay into the general
revenues at least three times what they do now, and then be not oppressive to the
people of this country. It is evident to my mind that it will be impossible for us
to get along without this office, but at the same time let it be as inexpensive as
possible, consistent with efficiency. I hope the Deputy Treasurer at the various ports
will be willing to collect our Export Duties at a very small commission, for if we
have to appoint other officers all over the Province to attend to that duty, we shall
find that it will use up all the receipts from that source. I hope also that the Government
will put the salary of this new office down to £400, for there are many good and reliable
men who will be willing to faithfully perform the duties of that office for that sum.
A clerk can plainly be found for £200, and only one will be required. Under these
circumstances I hope the Government will consider the matter and do the very best
they can.
Mr. SMITH. — That this officer is required, Mr. Chairman, there can be no kind of doubt; but
I hope it will satisfy the people of the fact the idea which has continually been
put forth that the number of public officers would be reduced , is all a delusion,
but that it will rather be increased. If all the Bills about to be introduced, according
to the intimations of the Attorney General, are carried, we shall have a great many
new officers. We are told that we shall have District Court Judges, Chancellors, and
all that, so that, even though many of the officersa t present existing may be abolished,
we shall have just as many as before. The Postmaster General is to be displaced, but
thisnew office is to be established, so that as fast as they are reduced in one direction
they spring up in another. I perfectly agree with the hon. member for Charlotte (Mr.
Hibbard) that it will be a pity if it cannot be united
with some other office, and if it is non-
policial I think it might very well be added to the Provincial Secretary's duties,
for the work will be comparatively light. All he will have to do will be to receive
the sixty thousand dollars or so for our export Duty, the amounts accruing from our
Casual and Territorial Revenue, which will not be large, and the sum we are to receive
from Canada under the Act, which I think will be very small indeed. For all the debts
contracted and the three million pounds sterling, is a first charge, taking precedence
of all others, and mus be liquidated before we can get what is promised under the
Act; and if there is nothing left we can of course get nothing, for the amounts to
come to us are only secondary charges upon the General Government. I agree with my
hon. friend from Charlotte too in the opinion that £400 is amply abundant to pay the
Receiver General. The idea at first was to make the office political, and the head
of a department, but I find that a great organic change has been effected since it
was introduced. I don't know that it is quite right to take the Bill off the files
of the House and later it to suit the changes in the feelings of the Government. That
Bill, Mr. Chairman, has never been introduced to the Speaker, in reality, but I am
not going to oppose it on that account. I do not believe the Receiver General will
require a clerk at all. I know taht when I am attending to my own business I work
a great deal harder than I ever did in a Government. Here the Provincial Secretary
has been away from his office for many months, but it was found that Mr. Fulton could
run the machine just as well when he was away as when at home, and although it is
generally thought the Secretary is a dreadfully hard-working man, yet I be0 lieve
he has frequently to run down to Saint John just to make people think he has plenty
to do. It is the same with the other departments; the chief trouble is for the heads
to find something to do. In this case I think £400 quite enough, especially as it
is not political, for we only pay £600 to the heads of departments, who have to go
back to their con0 stituents for election, and it coses that sum to do it — if not
in money, at least in trouble and anxiety — and so £400 is infinitely better than
£600 as the head of a department. I do not see the necessity of a clerk at all, for
the amount we do receive from Canada will come in bulk and the other duties will be
very light. I have often heard it said that the Government have too much infuence
on the floors of the HOuse, and as this Bill is opposed to that principle, and the
office will be required, I shall give it my support, but I hope the Government will
not
DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1867. 59
attempt to fill the blank with a larger sum than sixteen hundred dollars.
Mr. BABBIT.—I quite agree with all
that has been said with regard to the
office of Receiver General not being political, and when I heard that it was intended
to be so, I tried to get the Bill,
but it could not be found. It seems however, that it was taken away to make this
most beneficial change. I hope it will be
so arranged that this officer will receive
not only the amounts coming from
Canada. but our own Export Duty. On
referring to the Auditor's Report, I see
that large amounts are lying back in the
hands of the Deputy Treasurers year
after year. That is something I don't
believe in, and I hope this officer will see
that the amounts received by them shall
be promptly and fully paid up. I am satisfied that £400 will be an ample salary to
pay a man for the duties required of him, and that plenty of good men can be found
who would gladly take it at that sum, and ask for no clerk. It is much better to put
the sum as small as possible, for it is very easy to increase it if found insufficient
; but if it is made large at first, it will be found very difficult to cut it down
afterwards. It seems to me that in all these things we are inclined to commence too
big. There is, however, one department that I consider is not sufficiently paid, and
that is, the Postmasters at some of the larger offices, who, though their duties are
much heavier than this officer's will be, don't get anywhere near £400, and I therefore
think the Receiver General should not get over that sum.
Mr. CHANDLER.—It is admitted on every side that an office of this kind is necessary,
and while the hon. members have been speaking. I have been turning in my mind what
salary such an officer should receive. Does the duty require much thought or mental
ability? No, sir, it is not an office like that of Attorney General, where large attainments
are requisite, but merely one in which transactions of an ordinary kind are carried
on, and under these circumstances I think that £400 will be amply sufficient. The
country abounds with men who will gladly do the duty for that sum.
Hon. Mr. FISHER.- There is one element in the Bill that I wish to explain The Government do not.
want to make a big salary, but the Bill is only of a temporary character, and that
question will
best be settled at the next Session, when
it is known exactly what is required of
this officer. After seven months or so
the House can decide as to the permanency of the salary at the sum named.
If the office were made political it would
be worth double the amount than if nonpolitical. But hon. members are astray
somewhat with regard to the salaries of
United States officials. Why, a short
time ago, General Banks was made
President of a Railroad, owned by I
private Company, with a salary of ten
thousand dollars ; and a man who had
been engaged in I a public office all his
life, died a short time ago worth seventy
thousand dollars. A friend of mine
asked a gentleman there how he had
managed to save so much. "Oh," he
replied, "he was very economical." It
is apparent that if the salary they get is
small, they are yet able to live well and
become wealthy.
Hon. Mr. WILMOT.—I am one that
believes the greatest economy should be
practiced, with due regard to efficiency.
The hon. member for Queen's (Mr.
Babbit has said that plenty of men can
be got for £400 a year, and no clerk allowed. Now, even if the Province be
reduced to a municipality, I do not think
the Receiver General should be paid less
than the Chamberlain of the City of Saint John. The Common Council pay Mr. Ruel £400,
and he has an office and a clerk allowed him besides. I very much doubt if it would
be desirable to have no clerk, for there are many times when persons would want to
go to the office when the Receiver General could not be there. When it was proposed
to decrease the salaries of the Deputy Treasurers, I opposed it, but it was carried,
and what has been the result ? Why since that time there have been very heavy defalcations,
which was not the case before. The Receiver General will be required to give very
heavy bonds, and ought to be a good man, and when clerks in private business can get
£300, I think this officer should not get less than £500. Hon. members have spoken
about officials in the United States. Why, it is well know that the Government is
the most expensive in the world. There they go in for the spoils, every man trying
to get as much as he can while in office ; the officials of the City of New York,
it is well know, are paid the most extravagant amounts, and it is useless to draw
a comparison between their system and ours.
Mr. KERR.- I think if £400 is found to be too low, it can very easily be raised The giving
of large salaries does not always have the effect of making men do their work more
thoroughly ; nor is it among those that receive good, fair, remunerative salaries
that defalcations so frequently occur as with those whose salaries are very large.
There was the Postmaster of the United States, who received a very large salary,
went off with some millions of dollars of the public funds, and the Collector of the
City of New York, which is considered one of their best offices, did the same thing.
Because the City of Saint John
choose to pay their Chamberlain £400 is
no reason why we should give our Receiver General £500. We know that the
duties of the Presidents of Banks are
much more onerous than the Receiver
Generalship will be, and yet they only
received, till lately £400 a year. I think
that sum quite sufficient to pay for the
duties to be performed, but he should be
provided with a clerk. lt is not necessary that his salary should be large, but
one will he required. I do not think the
office should be united with that of the
Provincial Secretary, for he as Provincial
and Financial Secretary will have quite
enough to do ; but now that the Post
Office is removed the Auditor will have
much less to do—only the school an??
and bye road accounts to look after—and
it might possibly be added to that. The
bye road accounts, I think, should be
audited in the various localities where
the money is expended, as it can there
be done much more efficiently than at a
remote distance. On this matter, however, I think that £400 is quite adequate
for an accomplished and efficient officer.
Mr. BECKWITH.—I move, in amendment, that it be filled with $1,600. If
we become wealthy, as the Provincial
Secretary has predicted, it will be very
easy to add another £100 to it. The
duties require to be performed promptly
and efficiently, but $1, 600 us quite sufficient and as much as we can now afford
to pay. One clerk at about $600 salary
will be plenty, and many will be glad to
get the situation who are thoroughly
capable of performing the duty. I do not
think this office should be united with any
other. The Auditor's duties will be much
lighter in the future, as they should be,
for that officer has been very much over
worked. I think the idea of' the hon.
member for Northumberland (Mr. Kerr)
is good, respecting the auditing of the
bye road accounts in the localities where
the moneys are expended, for during the
past year in the office frauds were known
to have been practised, but it was so far
off that they could not be well looked
into. I think the Financial Secretary
and Auditor might very well be now
united in one individual, with one clerk
to assist him.
Hon. Mr. McADAM—I want to ask
the hon. member from Northumberland
(Mr. Kerr) it he will accept the office of
Receiver General, with a salary of £400?
If he will, I am sure I will vote for him,
for no one could he obtained who would
perform the duties better, or give more
satisfaction to the country.
Mr. KERR—I am not in a position to
talk about the salary I should require
until I get the offer of the situation—
(Laughter.)
60 DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1867.
Mr. SMITH. — That is a new way to get support for the Government — (laughter). I think they
could get all the requier if they put such questions to other hon. members. The hon.
member of the Government from Saint John (Mr. Wilmot) is very much opposed to small
salaries. He wanted the salary of the Auditor General to be kept up, whereas now it
is shown that the duties can be performed for two or three hundred dollars a year.
I have no doubt that the hon. member is a Senator by this time, and I am very anxious
to see whether, when the Proclamation comes, — if it does not break the other cable,
for it is said the enws was so weighty that it broke down the cable of 1866, — if
he will resign his seat in this House. He is the most extravagant man I ever knew,
and thinks officers can't get too large salaaries till they become rogueish. I shall
second the motion for £400, but I do not think a clerk will be needed.
Hon. Mr. WILMOT. — I am sure I have
nothing to gain by desiring the salary to be £500. I have brought in motions to have
salaries reduced, but I say that after the salaries of the Deputy Treasurers were
reduced there were large defalcations, and there were none before. I am sure I do
not know in what I am extravagant, unless it be that I would rather have a good man
in the office, and pay him well, than have a poor one at a low rate. With regard to
the Senatorship and my seat in this House, the hoh. member may rest assured that I
shall not resign until I know more about tht matter than he does now.
Mr. SMITH. — The hon. member says
there were no defalcations under the high salary arrangement, but I remember the case
of a man named BAiley, who was Surveyor General, and got a salary of I don't know
how much — £1200, I believe, — who embezzled the public money to the extent of thousands
of punds, and who was after all granted a pension of £500 a year; so that there is
nothing in the principle he lays down, at all.
Hon. Mr. FISHER. — This arrangement, as I have said, is only for a few months, and then it must be
revised to suit the requirements of the Province under Union, and the difference for
that time will be very small. I am in favor of the larger sum, but am not particular,
as it will not be binding to those who come after us.
Mr. LINDSAY. — There was a man
who held the position of Surveyor General, who said that the salary was so large he
did not know how to spend it, and wanted £100 taken off, but it could not be done.
(Laughter). The Attorney General was, I think, in the government at the time. I would
like to ask the hon. member of the Government (Mr. Wilmot) what his idea of the salary
of
the Auditor General is now? There was
Surveyor General Bailey, who got so great a salary that he had to keep horses and
carriages, and men to look after them, to spend it; and when any one wanted to see
him he was always just going for a drive, and they had to wait for him. The clerks
have to do all the work in that office now, and I think the head of the department
won't be wanted any more. As to the work of the Receiver General, it will be very
light, and he won't need a clerk. He will only have
to be in his office from 9 o'clock till 3, or
so, and he certainly won't want to go out much during that time. I think the bonds
he is required to give ($10,000) are too large, but it does not make much difference
as they will never be collected. It is well known that directly a man has embezzled
money and gone off, a sympathy is got up for the bondsmen, and after a time the bonds
are cancelled. That has always been the case, and it will be so. Plenty of good men
can be found to take the office at £400, but it seems that directly "General" is put
on to a name, some hon. members think the salary should be raised.
The Amendment being put was carried in the affirmative, and the blank was filled with
"sixteen hundred dollars."
The section referring to the appointment of a Clerk was then read.
Mr. SMITH. — I move that the section
you have just read, Mr. Chairmaan, relating to the Clerk be struck out. The Attorney
General says the Bill is only intended to be temporary, and will run but a few months,
so that the duties of the office can be carried on. If so, then it will be best to
leave to our successors the details of the matter, and they can supply a Clerk, if
one is found to be needed.
Hon. Mr. TILLEY. — I think on the
salary of the Receiver General it made very little difference whether the sum were
put at £400 or £500, but with the heavy bonds which he will be required to give, it
may not be so easy to find a man to fill the place. It has been said that the duties
will be very light, but with regard to the Crown Lands alone, he will have to be in
his office every hour in the day to receive the amounts as they are paid in, and pay
out what may be required. Under these circumstances he will require a clerk, the salary
need not be large, as in the case of illness or other absence from the office, there
must still be some one there to attend to the public business. Although the Receiver
General may not be constantly engaged yet he will have to be constantly there, and
a clerk will consequently be necessary to fill his place during forced absence. And
one of probity and intelligence should be appointed as well as one able to obtain
the necessary securities for the faithful performance of his duty.
Mr. SMITH. — That is a sharp idea to
put forth, that because a man may be taken sick, therefore he should have a clerk.
In the same way the Registrars, the Deputy Treasurers and everybody else would want
a clerk, but i such a case it is very easy to appoint a Deputy for the time being.
I think all the duties can very well be performed by one man, but if it is found necessary
a clerk can be appointed afterwards, say at the next Session. If the Government now
put in a man as clerk, even though he may not be required, it is not probable that
those who are left here at the next Session would displace him. It is exactly the
same as if the salary had been placed at a high figure, for it would have been found
very difficult to cut it down. It is for this reason that I move the section be struck
out.
On putting the motion a division was called, when there appeared —
YEAS — Messrs. Kerr, Sutton, Hibbard, Landry, McInerney, Caie, McQueen, Smith, Young,
Thompson, DesBrisay, Ryan, Lindsay, J. Flewwelling and BabBit. 15
NAYS — Messrs. Mcchan, McClelan, Beveridge, Dow, Beckwith, Queinton, Tillery, Connell,
Wilmot, Williston, Fisher, McAdam, and W.P. Flewelling. 13
It was therefore carried in the affirmative.
The other sections passed without discussion.
This individual participated in:
