DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866. 41
FRIDAY, June, 29th.
DELEGATION ON UNION.
Mr. BOTSFORD resumed—When
the debate was adjourned yesterday I
was replying to the charges, and asking
explanations with regard to the statements of the Hon. Provincial Secretary,
and the hon. member for Charlotte, (Mr.
Stevens,) and notwithstanding the Attorney General does not see what this
has to do with the subject before the
House, I shall go into this matter, conceiving as I do that as a member of the
late Government I should be wanting in
the duty I owe myself and my late colleagues, if, after the remarks of the hon.
member from Charlotte I did not go into
an explanation of the whole matter. I
was speaking, Sir, on the differences
which occurred in the answers of the Legislative Council in their memorandum
of resignation ; the Government charged
His Excellency with advising with members and persons in the Opposition, and
this was not denied. The Governor admits having held consultations with Mr.
Mitchell. But, Sir, the time referred to
was not the only time. Whilst Mr.
Smith, the leader oft he Government was
away on a delegation to Washington, we,
the other members of the Government,
knew that he was in communication with
Government House. On the return of
Mr. Smith, we informed him of the fact,
and in his next interview with His Excellency, he charged it home upon him.
We knew what was going on, and His
Excellency could not and did not deny the
charge. But there is another point he
also admits, and that is that he did not
consult with his Council on the answer
he intended, and did give to the address
of the Legislative Council. On the
seventh of April, after a night's reflection
on the first resolution with regard to the
address the Legislative Council withdrew
that and substituted the other. This I
presume was the time when the Provincial Secretary was consulted by Mr.
Mitchell. Then Messrs. Botsford and
Chandler were appointed a committee to
wait on His Excellency to know when he
would receive them with the address, and
here occurred a case unparalleled in the
history of our Province. Hie reply was
that he would receive them in two hours
from that time. This was at one o'clock .
At twenty minutes to three a note was
brought into this House from His Excel
42 DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866.
lency to Mr. Smith informing him that at
three o'clock he should receive the Legislative Council with their address. It may
not be parliamentary language to characterize this as intrigue and treachery, but
I would ask is it fair, or manly, or honorable ? I do not think such an action likely
to add much lustre to the heraldic " name" His Excellency prides himself on bearing,
or to the " courtesy" and " honor" he seems to prize so highly,—" a name which for
generations has been a guarantee for courtesy and honor of those who bear it"—a guarantee
in this case worthless so far as regards His Excellency. Mr. Smith proceeded to Government
House and found the Legislative Council already there, and the Staff of the Garrison
in waiting now for the answer. To such an address asking that it may be forwarded
to the foot of the Throne, the answer is that the wish of the petitioners shall be
complied with. This is the usual, and I may say the only course pursued. But what
action was taken in this instance ? I think the members of the Legislative Council
have cause to blush as long as they bear the name of Councillors. The President presented
the address, and instead of handing it to the Clerk, it was passed back to the President,
and then His Excellency taking upon himself the functions of Royalty commanded the
address to be ready to him. An address to Her Majesty the Queen, received, read, accepted
and replied to in his own name by the Lieutenant Governor of this Province, as though
he possessed all the powers of Royalty ! Was not this unconstitutional? When we look
at the haste shown and the means adopted I have no hesitation in saying that His Excellency
knew when he gave his reply his Council would resign, and that it was intended to
have that effect. But when charged with giving this reply without the advice and consent
of his Council, he says it was merely " an accident." An accident ! Mr. Speaker, I'll
show whether it was an accident or not. I'll show that it was design, for we now know
that the officers of the 15th Regiment received their orders to be at Government House
at three o'clock before eleven o'clock in the morning, two hours before the Committee
of the Legislative Council had waited on His Excellency to know at what hour he would
receive them with the address. He had without doubt arranged the whole matter, and
before the appointment of the Committee knew what majority there was to carry any
motion, and so at 11 o'clock the coaches at the livery stables were employed to carry
the officers to Government House at three o'clock. It was known that the Government
had a large majority on the floors of this House, and that they could not gain their
ends by
legitimate means, and so His Excellency
by the advice of the Opposition took this unconstitutional course, ignored his Council
and by design took the only steps possible to overthrow them. I ask is this " courtesy
?" Is this " honor?" But the Provincial Secretary has said that the constituencies
of this Province have endorsed the action of the Governor, and casts it upon the people
of Westmorland that they were unenlightened on the subject. Well, Mr. Speaker, he
lectured through that County, and had an opportunity to enlighten them, but did they
vote to support the course which had been pursued.
Mr. BOTSFORD—Did they ? I will call the attention of the Secretary to the Parish of Sackville,
a place having the benefits of academies and every other means of information ; there
after a year's deliberation, and after the very able addresses of the Secretary, they
cast an overwhelming vote in support of the late Government. He also referred to the
speech of Mr. Chandler in the Upper Branch on the subject of Union. Well, that was
printed and circulated through the county, but the effect desired was not produced,
for after a calm, deliberate and dispassionate consideration of the whole matter,
the County of Westmorelaud have again pronounced against it. I will now come to the
Resolutions submitted by the Attorney General, and the Amendment offered by my colleague.
It is proposed to send delegates to England to co operate with delegates from other
Provinces in the formation of a plan of union based on the Quebec Scheme. Now I do
not believe there is a constituency in this Province but would condemn the Quebec
Scheme. Why the hon. Provincial Secretary, who always openly, fairy and conscientiously
supported that Scheme, believing it to be the best that could be got, acknowledged
that his people wanted some alterations, and though there may be many in the country
who would take that Scheme with certain modifications, the majority of the people
are opposed to it. We are asked to appoint delegates, and who are they to be ? Well
I presume the Secretary will be one, the Attorney General will be the second, there
is the President of the Council three, and if they make the delegation larger, there
is the hon. member from Northumberland (Mr. Johnson) four, and if more are sent, there
is yourself, sir, who probably as the Speaker and Head of this House, will be included.
This will make five. Five leading men who assisted in framing that Scheme, and have
given their best attention to the consideration and promulgation of its provisions,
ans who believe it is the best that can be had ; and we are
asked to delegate to these men unlimited powers, and yet hon. members seem to
imagine that we shall get modifications
and improvements on the Quebec
Scheme ; why it is folly to expect anything of the kind. And suppose they
do attempt to gain some alterations, the
Canadians will at once say, " you have
pronounced this Scheme the very best that
can be had," and what more do you want.
Why even you, sir, if you go, will, methinks, say : " I'll take that, if I can't get
anything better." I do not think the
Union of these Provinces should be consummated on the principles of a Scheme
which has been condemned by the people
of this Province, and is condemned today. I think no delegation should be
appointed unless the Government will
say that modifications shall be made.
Hon. members had better beware, for as
sure as unlimited powers are given to the
delegates, they will give us the Quebec
Scheme and nothing more. I will now
refer to a few of the provisions of the
Scheme which to my mind are very objectionable. The first ingredient is representation
by population, a principle
which I believe will be ruinous to this
Province. It is clear to all who read
that Upper Canada increases in population faster, and will do so in a yet greater
ratio, than Lower Canada or these Lower
Provinces, and the result of this will be
that in a few years they will have the
predominant power in the Lower Branch
of the Legislature, and yet there is not
one solitary check to counteract the influence they will yield. Upper Canada
will have the power to control the expenditure of the public money, and as the
result, she will dole out a pittance to us,
with a shew of justice it may be, but in
reality with none, all her desire being to
secure her own interests. I look in vain
through this Scheme for restrictions
to this principle. But we are told
that we shall have a larger number
of representatives in the Upper Branch,
in proportion, than Upper Canada.
But why should the principle of representation by population be thrust upon
us? Where did they get the idea ?
Not from England certainly, for although the population of London is
much greater than any other city this
principle is not adopted. There the representation is founded on certain interests.
No, they have taken it from
the United States, but they have left us
with no corresponding and controlling
power in the Upper Branch. I ask the Attorney General where he can point to, or lay
his finger on a Constitution like this? There is nothing like it in the heavens above
or in the earth beneath, or in the waters under the earth. No, Mr. Speaker, it is
a mongrel Constitution, whose provisions are disastrous to
DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866. 43
the best interests of this country. There
is to be also a Court of Appeal, and
there is nobody, Mr. Speaker, that I
should like to see at the head of that
body better than yourself. History
shows us that great difficulties always
arise from the dividing of the people
into distinctive classes, and this has
been clearly illustrated in Upper and
Lower Canada. These distinctions of
race and language are, I see, to be
perpetuated. Now, in this House the
other day, a Bill came up which was
local in its nature, affecting no existing
law, but merely asking that the French
population of a certain parish should
assess themselves for the support of
their own poor, and be relieved from
the regular parish poor rates, and that
Bill was thrown out on the ground of
class legislation. Yet here, in this
Scheme, they have determined to perpetuate the very thing they so much
oppose amongst ourselves. And not
only is the difference of race to be perpetuated, but they provide also for the
continuance of two languages in the
Federal Government and Federal
Courts. I believe they should have
decided that the language of the country
should be either one or the other, and
when you, sir, as one of the Judges of
the Court of Appeal, shall be called
on to decide on some difficulties which
may arise, say between the Government
and some of the contractors on the
Inter-Colonial line, you will be addressed by some of the lawyers in the polite
language of France, whilst others will
quote authorities in English. You, sir,
may be qualified for such a position,
but there are very few in these Provinces
that are. Instead of these differences of race and language being abolished or confined
to the places where they have previously existed, we
find that this class distinction is to be
propagated and engrafted upon Provinces where it has never been before.
This has been the cause of the trouble
between Upper and Lower Canada, and
serious difficulties must arise from it
here. There is another point. Some
hon. members have admitted that we
cannot have a Union without the Inter-
Colonial Railway. Great anxiety has
been expressed on this subject, and we
have a message from His Excellency
showing that despatches have passed
on the question ; although it is put in
the Scheme, there seems to have been
a doubt about it. Now, say some, it
will be made secure by being put in as
a clause in the Imperial Act. But what
of that ? Is it not a question for the
Federal Government to decide ? And
if they don't choose where is our
remedy ? I believe the only way to secure it is to have a provision in the
Scheme, that if the railway is not built,
the Union shall cease. But even then
it will be too late, for we shall have
given up to Canada everything we
possess, and all will be chaos ; and
besides I do not think it will be a power
that England would permit. The delegates may agree to put it in the Act,
but, after all, it will amount to nothing.
In the debate in Canada it was said we
should have the power to make treaties
and to alter the Constitution, but there
is no provision for that in the Scheme.
The interests of Upper Canada are not
lfavorable to the Inter-Colonial Railroad.
They have a road now running down to
Portland, and if the Federal Government find they have not the funds, the
road will not be built, and then to
whom can we appeal? To England?
She will refer it back for the decision of
the General Government. What does
the Governor say in a despatch in
writing to Mr. Cardwell on the 27th of
February, 1865 :
The Lieutenant Governor to the Secretary of State for the Colonies.
FREDERICTON, 27th February, 1865.
SIR,—A discusssion has lately taken
place in this Province with respect to one
of the. conditions of the Federal Union
of British North America, which has excited much interest, and with respect to
which it appears to me desirable that I
should be placed in possession of the
views of he Government.
The Resolutions agreed to at Quebec,
and which are to form the basis of the
proposed Federal Union of the British
American Provinces, have reference to a
great variety of subjects of very different degrees of importance. With some
of these matters the Local Legislatures
are already fully competent to deal,
whilst others are of a character which
removes them beyond their cognizance.
It was my belief that the aid of the
Imperial Parliament would be sought only to give effect to those general provisions
of a constitutional nature which
could not be brought into operation by
the existing Local Assemblies ; that it
would be called upon to enact the Federative Union, and to define the limits of
the authority of the Central and Local
Governments and Legislatures, but that
the arrangement of matters of purely or
mainly local interest would be left to the
Federal Legislature, or to those of the
seperate Provinces, as it may fairly be
presumed that these bodies would faithfully carry into execution the conditions
upon which their Union had itself been
based.
I find, however, that a very general impression prevails that the construction of
the Intercolonial Railroad from Riviere du
Loup to Truro, is to be provided for by a
clause in the Imperial Act giving effect to
the proposed Federal Union.
I do not myself consider it probable
that Her Majesty's Government will make
such a suggestion to the Imperial Parliament, for I cannot but conceive that
such a proposal would appear to Her Majesty's Government to be either unnecessary
or unjust ; unnecessary if (as we
must conclude will be the case should no
unforseen and insuperable obstacles
arise,) the new Federal Legislature votes
the construction of a work, the immediate
commencement of which forms one of
the conditions of the agreement to which
they owe their existence ; unjust, if it
were to have the effect of forcing on the
people of British America the execution
of a work which their Representatives in
Parliament may consider it inexpedient to
undertake.
Nor does it appear to me very likely
that the British Parliament would enact
a law involving a very large expenditure of money not collected under its
own authority, a law moreover which
it would be impossible to enforce, as no
penalty could be inflicted after the passage of the Act, in the event of the
subsequent neglect of its provisions by
the Federal Government and Legislature.
Neither do I imagine that, the question being one which primarily concerns
the people of British North America,
the British Parliament would consent to
fetter the discretion of their representatives in dealing with it as they may consider
most conducive to the advantage
of the United Provinces more especially
when it is remembered that the subject
is one which the local Legislatures are
already, even under the existing state
of things, fully competent to consider.
Still less do I think it probable, even
were a clause of a general character,
enacting the completion of this great
work, to be incorporated in an Act of
the Imperial Parliament, that Her Majesty's Government would consent to
introduce into the Bill, or that Parliament would consent to sanction, all
those details which would be required
to render such a clause effective ; for,
unless the route, the mode of construction, the minimum sum to be annually
devoted to the work, and the time at
which it is to be completed, are all
prescribed, the scheme may be subject
to ultimate defeat by the rejection of one
of these points by the Federal Parliament ; whilst the assumption of those
who believe that a clause concerning the
Railway will form part of the Imperial
Act is that the completion of the work
is to be so secured as to remove all
liability of its being affected by any subsequent action on the part of the Federal
or Local Governments and Assemblies.
I confess, therefore, that I am unable
altogether to share the confident belief
of my Council, that this work—(of the
importance of which I need not say I
am very fully sensible)—will be undertaken under the direct authority of the
Imperial Parliament.
At the same time it is possible that I
may be mistaken as to the views and
intentions of the Government, and I
therefore respectfully request to be instructed as to the course which I am to
pursue, in the event of my being urged
to state in my Speech from the Throne
on the opening of the Provincial Legislature, that such a provision will undoubtedly
form part of the Act of Union,
or be embodied by the Imperial Parliament in a separate Act.
Such a declaration, if it were afterwards proved by facts to be erroneous, would,
I need not say, excite very general and not ill-founded irritation.
J. A. Macdonald, a leading member of the Canadian Government, is reported to have
lately used, what appears to me very sensible language in connection with
44 DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866.
this subject, to the effect that the construction of the Railway was certainly not
part of the Constitution,—(a proposition which is self-evident)—and that consequently,
with many other details agreed to by the Conference, it would not be embodied in the
Imperial Act, but that it was one of the conditions on which the Union was based,
and must therefore be carried into effect at the earliest possible period by the Legislature
of the Federated Provinces. I am, however, informed that Mr. Macdonald has subsequently
stated that the provisions for the construction of the Railroad will form part of
the Imperial Act.
As the Legislature of this Province will meet probably in the first week of April,
it is highly important that I should be enabled by that time to reply distinctly to
the queries which may be put to me by my advisers and by the Legislature, whether,
in the event of the Federation of the British American Provinces being accomplished,
Her Majesty's Government will be prepared to submit to the Imperial Parliament, either
as a clause of the Constitutional Acct, as a separate Bill, provisions to secure the
completion of the Inter-colonial Railway from Riviere du Loup to Truro within a definite
time, and framed in such a manner as to preclude the possibility of any subsequent
action in a contrary sense on the part of the Federal Government and Legislature.
I have, &c.
(Signed) ARTHUR H. GORDON.
The Governor anticipated the difficulties that would arise, and therefore puts these
questions to the British Government, and what was their reply ?
The Secretary of State for the Colonies to the Lieutenant Governor.
DOWNING STREET, 18th March 1866.
Sir,—I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your Despatch of the 27th February,
in which you request instructions whether provisions will be made for the completion
of the Inter-colonial Railway in the Act of Union, or be embodied by the Imperial
Parliament in a separate Act. In reply, I have to acquaint you that Her Majesty's
Government have expressed their cordial approval of the proceedings of the Conference
at Quebec, and have engaged that if, as they hope, the Provincial Legislatures sanction
the scheme of the Conference, they, on their part, will submit to the Imperial Parliament
the measures which may be necessary for carrying that scheme into effect.
Of the Resolutions adopted by the Conference, the 68th provides that the General Government
shall secure without delay the completion of the Inter-Colonial Railway. Her Majesty's
Government have understood that Resolution, with reference to the Correspondence which
had previously passed with the Governments of the several Provinces ; while, therefore,
they have entered into no new stipulations on the subject, they have by no means excepted
the 68th Resolution from the general approval which they have expressed of the entire
scheme, or from the engagement respecting it to which I have referred.
What steps it may be proper hereafter for Her Majesty's Government to take in pursuance
of this engagement, cannot be stated positively, until it shall be known
what course has been taken by the Provincial Legislatures, and until Her Majesty's
Government shall have received the communications which they hope to receive from
persons deputed by the Governor General to give to Her Majesty's Government the benefit
of their counsel upon the various measures necessary for carrying the Resolutions
of the Conference into effect.
I have, &c.
(Signed) EDWARD CARDWELL.
Here we are distinctly informed this whole question depends on the correspondence
between the Governments- They agree to advance three millions of dollars, taking security
on the country, but does any one believe that three millions is going to build the
road ? Why five or six millions won't do it, and we can't expect the British Government
to advance that amount. This is a serious question. If you give unlimited powers to
the enlightened minds who framed the Quebec Scheme, what can be expected to be the
result ? When it is found that Great Britain won't advance the money required, where
is it to come from ? I believe we shall not get the Railway at all, and even though
I may be mistaken, have the hon. members from St. John considered the route which
it is almost certain has been already agreed on. It is a foregone conclusion that
Great Britain will not permit it to be located near the American frontier. Have they
reflected that if they vote for these Resolutions they vote to carry the Intercolonial
Railway up by the North Shore ? And what will be the result of Union on the County
of York ? Where will then be the Provincial Buildings ? Where the Post Office, where
the other public offices ? Where will the Courts then hold their sittings ? In Fredericton
? No, but all will be removed to St. John. It is to the interest of that city, and
also to the Eastern section of the country, that it should be so. There is no more
doubt of all this than that the river out there flows down to Saint John. The consummation
of Union will be the death knell to the County of York. Do they think they will have
a soldier here then ? No, for we shall undertake our military and naval affairs, for
only in times of danger and actual war will Great Britain then keep her troops in
this country. We already learn that the head quarters of the military is removed to
Saint John. The regiment now here will spend about ÂŁ70,000 this year, and York will
have to give it up. With these observations which I have offered with no desire to
raise a factious opposition, but because my property and interest are in the country
like other hon. members, I shall vote for the Amendment and oppose the Resolution.
Mr. CHANDLER said this question had been so fully discussed that it would be a repetition to go
over it all again. It was a lamentable fact that many of our young men who would be
an ornament to any country were moving away and becoming absorbed in the neighboring
Republic. Every steamer that left Saint John was draining the country. This was what
he would call practical annexation. But what inducements were there to remain ? None
whatever. Why, look at Maine, immediately on our border. There was Mr. Pike could
go to Rio Janiero and make his fortune, Mr. Pitt Fessenden could become Financial
Secretary of the Union. These men had no superior abilities to the young men in our
Province, but they had the field and the higher position to which to aspire. But what,
he would again ask, were the inducements offered here why they should remain ?
Mr. CHANDLER—That might be an inducement to the hon. member for Westmorland, but there must be
something more than pretty girls. They must be provided for, and there were no offices
save that of Provincial Secretary or Attorney General and a few others to which a
young man could aspire, and they generally cost a man more than they were worth to
attain them. How was this to be obviated ? By combining the resources and interests
of all these Provinces in one great Confederation. This he believed to be the hope
and salvation of this Province. The Intercolonial Railroad, which would be provided
for—there was no mistake about that—would open up a large tract of country, inviting
settlers, whilst it becomes itself a source of profit to this Province. He should
very well have liked to have had the various terms of Union discussed point by point,
but the explanations made by the Secretary were sufficient to prevent this, and he
felt satisfied that the delegates would act with a full desire to secure the best
terms possible. He would say a word or two about this road. It would cost some millions
to construct it, and those who are engaged on it, contractors and workmen, must live,
a trade will spring up in fish and agricultural produce to supply their wants, and
many new settlers will come into the country. All this will be of great benefit. He
was speaking yesterday to a gentleman from Upper Canada, who told him that in that
country they raise large quantities of grain, but the streams are shallow and in the
summer they dry up, and consequently are wanting in water power to grind their grain,
but in Union much of the wheat grinding will be done in this Province. With regard
to the
DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866. 45
Court of Appeal, he thought it was almost time we had one. There was a
case in Charlotte County of the Saint
Andrews Railway and the New Brunswick
and Canada Land Company. They got
into some difficulty, and there was an
appeal to the Courts in England. First
there was a 300 guinea fee to one legal gentleman and a 300 guinea fee to
another, and another, that it made it rather
an expensive affair to the St. Andrews
Railway Company. If we had a Court
of Appeal here, these cases would be
brought before them, and our lawyers
would be able to plead in them. But
we cannot plead in any Court in England escept the Court of the Judicial
Committee of the Privy Council. From
these and other causes he was opposed to
the passage of the Amendment. He believed that the matter should be pushed
on with all haste consistent with the interests of the people. The hon. ex-Attorney
General was opposed to the Quebec Scheme, but he had seen nothing in
the objections he had raised. One of the
great bugbears had been that Mr. Tilley
was going to be Governor. With regard to that he did not see that that
was very objectionable, keeping in mind
the old Latin
maxim—
" A crown to he that deserves it."
The hon. member from Westmorland
seemed to have no adequate idea of the
dangers by which the people on the
border had been menaced. Living away
from the scene of danger he could form
no just conception of the anxiety felt by
the people there. If he had been an eye0
witness of the appearance sad evident
designs of the Fenian scouudrels, he
would not speak so lightly of the matter
as he had done. He (Mr. Chandler) had
seen them in their midst with faces
scarred, eyes too large for their sockets,
distilling tears, with low receding foreheads and looking the foul-fiends they
were. He 'had seen them landing with
six shot, breach loading Spencer Rifles
in one hand, and sixteen shot Revolvers
in the other. They had an immense
quantities of ammunition in Eastport, and
had it not been for the timely arrival of
the gallant 17th Regiment, and the ships
of War, he had no doubt they would have
made a descent upon the people that very
night. The feeling of anxiety was now
somewhat dispelled, but it became this
Province to unite with the other Provinces
for defence against any power that might
attempt to invade our shores. He would
not go further into the subject but content
himself with voting fur the Resolution,
believing that the delegates who were
sent home would agree to only such terms
as would be for the honor and happiness
of the people of this Province.
Mr. W. P. FLEWELLING did not
intend make a long speech. The re
marks from the hon. member for Westmorland (Mr. Botsford) called for a reply.
That hon. member had said that none of
the constituencies of this Province were
in favor of the Quebec Scheme, and that
the measure should be submitted to the
people on the return of the delegates from
London. He thought so far as King's
County was concerned, the people were
perfectly satisfied not to wait for the
Scheme to be submitted to them again
before it should be consummated. They
had confidence in the Government, and
those delegates who may be appointed to
make such alterations in the Quebec
Scheme as are needed. No other Scheme
had ever been before the people and on
that basis they had returned by large
majorities the Confederate members.
The hon. member for Westmorland had
also said that he did not believe that
Canada would advance the money to build
the Inter-colonial Railroad, but he believed that Canada was assured that the
road would be a great benefit to that Provinces and that they would use therefore
every means in their power to secure its
being built. He should support the Resolution.
Mr. McQUEEN did not intend to enter
into a lengthy speech on this question,
but as hon. members seemed to be desirous to have their ideas go the country, he should
like his name to appear
as having spoken upon it. It had been
hinted that the people of Westmorland
were not very intelligent, and if so they
could not be expected to send a very intelligent representative, but they had
empowered him to speak their views,
and that was that if delegates were sent
home to mature a plan of Union, they
should he restricted in their powers, for
if this were not done, as probably all
who go on the delegation will be in favor
of the Quebec Scheme, and the British
Government, are also in favor of it, we
should not be likely to get any other.
He supposed the "true interests" spoken
of in the Resolution was to be taken in
the same sense as the pledges made in
Canada were understood with regard to
the improvements provided there, viz :
that they might be qualified to suit
the different parties interested. The
question had been so ably treated on by
other hon. members, that it was only
necessary for him to say that he should
oppose the Resolution and support the
Amendment.
Mr. RYAN was in favor of the Quebec.
Scheme, and believed we never should
get a better, because we had the best of
the bargain now. At any rate he believed the delegates who would be entrusted with
the interests ot New Brunswick would do the best they could. When
the Quebec Scheme was first brought
before the notice of the people they opposed it, because they did not understand
its provisions. The enemies of the mea
sure went about the country disseminating falsehoods, and as the people had
little or no information as to the nature
of the Scheme, they believed what was
told them. These men would buttonhole one man, and tell him how dreadfully we were
going to be taxed, and to
another they would tell another story.
They managed to feel a man's pulse before they decided on what ground to
mislead him, and so the people thinking it is the best and safest plan, opposed the
measure. The result was, the opponents of Union obtained a large majority. But
when the people had time for reflection,
when they looked into the matter and
became informed, they rose in their
might and hurled their deceivers to the
ground. One of the cries of the opponents of the Quebec Scheme was the cost
of maintaining the militia, and directly
they came into power they passed that
very meritorious Militia Law, providing
for a Camp of Instruction. And after
all it was only the scraps of Mr. Tilley's Bill. The hon. member for Westmorland (Mr.
Botsford) said that the framers of the Scheme thought there could be nothing like
it, and then he declared
himself that there was nothing like it in
the heavens above. on the earth beneath,
or in the waters under the earth. Well,
if that was the case, he did not see why
they should not worship it. There
could not certainly be anything wrong
in that. Then the hon. ex-Attorney
General did not like for us to buy up
Newfoundland for $150.000 a year, because they had nothing but rats or something of
that kind there, and yet he said
they would not come into the Union
even then. The other hon. member (Mr.
Botsford) had said that the people of
New Brunswick were in favor of Union,
but wanted modifications in the Quebec
Scheme, so that if modifications were
made the great majorities the Government party had been returned
by would be greatly increased. He had
no doubt about the Inter-colonial Railroad—he believed we should have that
or nothing. With regard to the route he
knew it would be a great benefit no matter where it was located, of course he had
his wishes ; he would like it to go by
the central route. But whatever route
might be chosen it must greatly benefit
St. John, and what benefitted St. John
would be good for all the Province. But
it had been raised as an objection that we
did not know the route. As far as that
went he thought it hardly worth while locating the line at a great expense before
we
saw whether we were going to be united or
not. Again it was said " we don't know
that it is going to pay." Neither did a
man know if it was going to pay when he
planted a hill of potatoes, but be planted
for all that, and hopefully looked for the
result. He should oppose the amendment, and vote for the Resolution.
Mr. LEWIS was one of the noble band
46 DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866.
of twelve who were returned to support a
measure of Union at the former election,
and who had manfully fought, shoulder to
shoulder the opponents of Union on the
floors of the late House, and who having
returned to the people had again been returned by large majorities, and the
Province must now see the wisdom
of those Counties who returned Confederates a. the first election. With
regard to the new measure, he believed
if we could get a better Scheme than
that which had been before the people,
nobody would object to it, but if no better can be had, the Quebec. Scheme is
far better than none. The country was
now quite conversant with the merits of
the Scheme, and, therefore, he would not go into it. He should support the Resolution.
Mr. YOUNG knowing, as he did, that the people had pronounced in favor of Union, was ready to
go for the Resolutions with certain restrictions. First, he would not go for the Quebec
Scheme ; second, he would take the delegates from both side of the House, and third,
he would submit the Scheme when matured to the people. He did not think this too much
to ask. He thought the delegates should not be clothed with power to change the Constitution
of the Country without submitting the question again to the people for their approval.
The people had returned thirty-three men to support Confederation, but not to support
the Quebec Scheme, and they should know the terms that are to be agreed upon, or at
least that it should come back to the House. The Attorney General had said no railway,
no Union ; but he would ask how was it to be secured ? Could it be put in the Constitution
? No, all that we could do was to rely on the faith of Canada was we did in 1862,
and we all knew how that fell through. He thought it best to have the road built first
and let the Union come after. Then the Attorney General had said that the United States
had spent their blood and treature to maintain their Union. Yes, but that was a Union
worth maintaining, but it was a Union very different from the Quebec Scheme. If there
was the same representation in the House of Lords, as it is called, as is the Senate
it would be very different. The Provincial Secretary had said that no money would
be wanted for the improvement of the rivers and lakes of Canada, but he (Mr. Young)
had seen dredging machines at work on Lake St. Peters, between Montreal and Quebec,
and opposite Montreal they were constantly in use. There was as much improvement needed
on the Saint Lawrence as on the St. John. He believed that the Government should have
submitted the terms upon which they expected to obtain Union. In Canada it
had been discussed section by section,
and why not here? He would ask if
ever before men went out of a country
empowered to change the Constitution ?
No, never. Throughout the debate thus far
no new ground had been broken. He
deprecated the manner in which the Government got into power, but that matter
was not before the House, but for the
reasons he had stated he should vote
against the Resolution.
Mr. LINDSAY did not at first intend
to speak on this question, but so many had expressed their views and opinions that
he should also say a few words. It had been said that the present
Government got into power by the unconstitutional action of the Governor. But if the late Government
had acted in a fair and constitutional manner they should have resigned their seats
when His Excellency refused to accept Mr. Wilmot's resignation unless they would agree
to introduce a measure for Union. His Excellency went to Canada in the interest of
the Government, and the ex-President went to Washington, and Mr. Wilmot's resignation
could not be accepted till his return, but when the President got home Mr. Wilmot
was allowed to retire, be_ cause the Anti Government were willing to go for Union.
Some hon. members wanted the Scheme, when matured, to be sent back to the people.
Well the question had been sent to the people, but hon. members did not seem satisfied,
nor would they ever be. The hon. member from Gloucester (Mr. Young) wanted the delegates
to be selected half the number from his party. That would be quite an idea to send
men to consummate a Union of these Provinces who were opposed to it. The ex-Attorney
General had referred to the stand taken by the Hon. Joseph Howe, but he read an extract
from a speech made by that gentleman in 1865 to show that he had always been in favor
of Union till within the past few months. He believed the chief cause of his opposition
was because he did not happen to be in the Government which would have the honor of
bringing it about. The hon. ex-Attorney General was also anxious to have the measure
laid before the House. The best plan would be for him to go to England with Mr. Howe
; he had been there before on delegations, and the last time he went when the Government
had in their possession a despatch which rendered the delegation needless. That despatch,
it seems by accident, got laid aside. This might be called a Government accident.
He had also said that there were no Fenians to cause the troubles we had on our borders.
It was all very well for him to make light of the affair when he lived away back from
the borders where the Fenians would have to pass over the bo
dies of thousands to get at him. He believed that it was from expressions such
as were made by members on the floors
of the house at its last Session that gave
the Fenians the idea that they could easily overcome us. It was said that if the
British Government attempted to force
us into Confederation there would be
blood shed, and the people over the border thought that it would not be hard to
work up a strong feeling here against
England, and so would have taken us and
made us a part of the Irish Republic, but
how long would that have lasted ? Just
long enough to hand us over to the United States. But he thought we had pretty
well shown them that we did not want to
change our nationality The Resolution
before the House was just in accordance
with the Speech at the opening of the
Session. Mr. Lindsay read some statistics to shew that if they were appointed
according to population, the Maritime
Provinces would have to send home
twenty. He had been in Canada, and he
would say that he never knew any
one go there and return who were not
ashamed of being opposed to Union. He
did not believe in keeping the matter in
abeyance, but. thought it should be carried through as speedily at possible; As
thirty-eight per cent. of all the shipping
of British North America was built in
this Province, he thought we should be
likely to get a pretty good share of the
carrying trade. It had been stated that
we should be sold to Canada at eighty
cents a head, but he did not see that, any
more than Canada would be sold to us.
Our revenues are paltry and insignificant
compared with those of Canada, for where
we put into the General Treasury one
dollar she puts in twenty. So far as he
was concerned, he told his people on the
hustings that he should go for the Quebec
Scheme if we could not get a better. The
Antis in Canada opposed Union because
they said we had the best of it, and that
we ought not to get the $63,000 for ten
years. He would not go any furtherer into
the question, but should vote for the Resolution and against the Amendment,
which was only a patch to it.
Mr. CAIE had listened to the speeches
of hon. members, and though some had
wandered far from the subject before the
House, he had yet gleaned enough to
satisfy him that all who are in favor of
the Quebec Scheme should vote for
the Resolution, and all who were opposed to Confederation, all who had the
slightest objection to any of its provisions, and all who desired modifications to
be made, should vote against it. Who were to be the delegates ? Those men who formed
the Convention at Quebec, and who would even take a worse than the Quevec Scheme to
pay themselves with some fat office for all the lavor they performed in supporting
the plan of
DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866. 47
Union. He thought very highly of the
Government of Great Britain, but did
not consider them qualified to. sit as arbiters on the destinies of this Province,
or to act in reference to the matter at all,
as they had already spoken in favor of
a Scheme which was refused by the
people of New Brunswick. And the reason why they were in favor of the Quebec
Scheme, was because many of their
members and friends are interested in
the canals and other public works of
Canada, who had spent millions and tens
of millions in their improvements. If
left to these parties to decide, we should
be swamped. But let restrictions be put
on the delegates, that unless such and
such concessions are made then no
Union can take place. With regard to
the Inter-Colonial Railway, he believed
it would be built, and that if Confederation had been put aside it would have
been underway before this. Mr. Caie
was about to enter on some financial
statements with regard to our position
in and out of the Union, but the hour
having come for separation, he merely
would say that he should support the
Amendment.
AFTERNOON SESSION.
Mr. McINERNEY did not rise to offer any hostile opposition to the Government, or to offer any amendment
to the Resolutions. He was sent to oppose the passage of a plan of Union based on
the Quebec Scheme, or any other that would take away the rights of the people. Our
taxes at present were twelve per cent. a head, whilst in Canada they were twenty-five
per cent. a head. If we go into Union we should have to assume part of their liabilities,
and we should be taxed according to their rate. The amount of taxes raised will be
about a million dollars, and our proportion of that, according to our population,
would be $21.00, leaving the balance to go into the working expenses of Canada. He
might be wrong, but this was as he understood it. The Scheme provided that public
works in Canada should be proceeded with when the finances would permit. He would
ask when was that ? Why just as soon as they needed it. He was under the impression
that about forty million dollars would be asked for the improvement of the lakes and
canals of Canada, that five million dollars would go to buy up the Hudson Bay Territories,
and about twelve millions of dollars to build the Inter-Colonial Railroad. These sums
we would have to assume in proportion to our population. The resolution now before
the House he should have to oppose, for knowing the feelings of his people, he could
not stand there and vote for the appointment of delegates to go two thousand miles
away to prepare a new Scheme of Union, which
we know nothing about, thus abrogating
the rights of the people. It was almost
a folly for him to stand there and raise
his voice when hon. and learned gentlemen had so ably spoken on the question.
The Provincial Secretary had spoken of
the ignorance of the peoplc of Kent and
Westmorland. He said they had not
means for obtaining information. But
the supporters of the Quebec Scheme had
used every means in their power to gain
over the people of these Counties, and as
the representative of the County of Kent,
he was proud to say they had failed—the
people of Kent could not be bought.
Expressions had been made with regard
to Fenianism ; he approached the subject with great delicacy, being an Irishman, and
many people seemed to think
that all Irishmen were Fenians. This
he denied. It was a false position to place
them in. When the time of trial came
and war was upon us, if it ever should
come, he, for one, would be found in the
front rank of the battle prepared to meet
the foe, while those who had maligned
him and call him Fenian and traitor were
skulking in the rear. He stood there
the representative of the sixteen thousand men of the County of Kent, men of
intelligence, although he did not profess
to be a fair specimen, and he wished to
ask the Provincial Secretary if in his remarks he referred to the hon. member
from Westmorland and his constituencies or to the supporters of that hon. gentleman
in the House. He would ask if it was applied to him.
Mr. McINERNEY was glad to receive
the answer of the Provincial Secretary,
as his people would expect him to know
exactly to whom it was applied. He
could not amuse the House with high
sounding language like some of the hon.
members. He apologized for occupying
the time, and should vote for the Amendment.
Mr. BECKWITH only rose, as so much
had been said, to remove some of the
fallacies put forward by the hon. member
for Westmorland to shew why he could
not vote for the Amendment. That hon.
gentleman possessed a very earnest style
of oratory, so that things which he could
not himself believe—he (Mr. Beckwith)
gave him credit for better sense—was
likely to make an impression on superficial observers. The very eloquent speech
of the member for Charlotte (Mr. Chandler) he did think at the time would convince
the hon. member for Westmorland
that he was all wrong, and he really expected to see the Amendment to the Resolution
withdrawn. Like Festus, he is
"almost persuaded," het can't come
down just to the right thing. There was
no doubt that the troublous affair on the
border had tended to show the people on
what a volcano they stood. The evident
result of success would have been to cast
us into the American Union. A late Chicago paper had said perhaps, after all, it was
best to let Confederation be consummated, as it would save trouble. Then
the United States would be able to
swallow all the Provinces at once, instead of morsel by morsel. The movement of the
Fenians showed us that
it was intended we should be the first
morsel. The ex-Attorney General had
said that the necessities of Canada was
the origin of the idea of Union. He
(Mr. B.) agreed with him to a certain extent. . Every inland country requires a
seaboard on which to receive and
ship material, and it thus becomes
a necessity for Upper Canada to
unite with the Maritime Provinces. The
French peoplc of Canada are industrious,
kind and frugal, but they are not a progressive people. In the House of Assembly in
Canada he heard the leading
Lower Canadian statesmen oppose a
measure providing for Light Houses.
But the people of Upper Canada are
constantly moving onward ; they believe
in progress. They see that united to
us they will become a great people, but
alone they are nothing. If they cannot
obtain a Union with us they must have
a Federal Union among themselves,
which would be injurious to us. Now
is the time to strike while the iron is
hot. He should be delighted to see the
hon. ex-Attorney General one of the
delegates to look after the interests of the
Antis, but whatever was going to be
done, he would like to see done at
once. It was objected that Messrs.
McGee and McDonald had said that the
Quebec Scheme could not be altered to
the dotting of an i or the crossing of a
t. But, he would ask, to whom was this
remark addressed? It was said to the
Canadians that they who formed only
one party to the bargain could not alter
the slightest provision in the Scheme.
But if the other Provinces are agreed
then the i's may be dotted and the t's
crossed, aye and criss crossed. It had
also been said that Upper Canada was
increasing so fast that we should be
swamped. He thought, however, our
position and the fact that St. John would
necessarily become the winter port for
the Confederation, we should increase
quite as fast as Upper Canada. The ex-
Attorney General also was very much
alarmed because, as he said, Canada
would tax us for whatever was needed.
Now the fact was, all would tax all.
Another great bugbear was the canals
of Canada. But these canals were paying more than any public works which
we have in these Provinces, and anyone
who has read the documents submitted
to the Convention held at Detroit, must
be aware that we have a great interest
in the widening and deepening of these
canals. When members from Upper
48 DEBATES IN THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866.
Canada say to our members, " We want you to assist us to gain a grant to improve our
canals," they will say, "Yes. If you will give us your interest to improve the harbor
of Saint John." And so we shall see in that city large wet and dry docks, for which
there is every facility, and then waht a prospect opens before that city. Further,
the harbors on the North Shore would need deepening, so that ships of a large tonnage
could pass up. Canada, therefore, would not get all the money, for we need public
works as much as they. Then the movement on the border had convinced even the ex-Attorney
General that we should have to spend large amounts to preserve ourselves from invasion.
Why, even the late Government brought in and passed a Bill to provide for a navy.
Well, just now, that might look very much like the frog and the ox; but if these Provinces
were united, it was something we could have without bursting. The ex-Attorney General
also said the soldiers were to be removed. But Great Britain has said nothing of the
kind. What they have said is that they cannot trust to have their men cut off in detail,
as would be done in case of war but that united, they will give us of their best men
and treasure to preserve us. Then the taxation. If we do not have Confederation, we
shall have very soon to resort to direct taxation. But before this can be resorted
to by the General Government, they will have to put on nearly a dollar per had upon
the other Provinces to bring their rate tup to what we are now paying. Our revenue
is only about $800,000, and our fixed expenditure over $700,000, so that for our roads
and bridges and otehr works we should have to tax ourselves directly out of the Union.
The Quebec Scheme was not so bad a Scheme after all. There were checks that were not
known to exist till carefully looked after. He was willing to send men home untrammelled,
and he thought that the love of approbation in man was suficient to guarantee that
they would not do anything that would cause them to be looked upon by their fellow-countrymen
with scorn and contempt. He thought that it would be well to have a provision inserted
that the members of the Legislative Council should live in the Province they represent.
If the $63,000 bonus for then years was not generally deemed sufficient, he had no
objections to see it increased to $100,000. He should support the Resolution.
Mr. QUINTON merely rose to declare himself in favor of the Resolution. He was quite willing to
entrust the interests of the country in the hands of the delegates that might be appointed,
believing, as he did, that they would use every en
deavor to secure Union on the most advantageous terms.
Mr. SKINNER wished to speak on the question before the House, but had been so occupied with other
matters that he was not then prepared, and, therefore, would ask the House to allow
him to speak after the hon. member for Westmorland had made his reply to-morrow morning.
Dr. DOW said he should claim a like favor if the request were complied with. He thought it
inexpedient to depart from parliamentary usage, and he should object to such a course
being taken.
Mr. SKINNER then said the hon. member for York appeared to be very fastidious, and as his request,
which he considered a very reasonable one, had not been complied with, he should proceed
with a few remarks. Whilst he should vote for the Resolution, he could not but express
his dissent from the manner in which this matter had been brought before the House.
He could not vote for Mr. Smith's Amendment, because he believed it would be driving
a dirk into the very heart of Confederation. He was, therefore, placed in a very awkward
position. He did expect that the Government would have brought the question before
the House in a more tangible form; that the qustion would be discussed in all its
bearings, and that instructions would be given to the delegates appointed by which
their action would be governed. But if this bald Resolution were passed, they, on
their return might say, if teh provisions of the plan decided on were not satisfactory.
"Why you gave us no instructions." The Government should have come before the House
and said, that as they had but lately come from the people, and that as the House
knew what the people required, they should instruct them what to do. This would have
been dignified, this would have been honorable, and the right way to approach the
subject. He was in favor of Confederation; it was as strongly enshrined in his heart
as in that of any one, but he did think, in reconsidering the terms of Union, the
question should be approached calmly and deliberately. The more time taken in its
consideration the better. But from the first there appeared to have been a desire
to rush the matter on. When the delegates first met at Prince Edward Island this was
manifest, but the question had lost nothing in the support it received by being held
over for fifteen months. It had rather been gaining support remarkably fast. The question
was not new to the people. For twenty- five years they had been in favor of Union,
but when they found it was contemplated to push the matter through in a hasty manner,
the people would not acquiesce, and so the Quebec Scheme
was repudiated. He would tell the hon.
members that representation by population was the hardest thing the people had been
called upon to submit to. But the evils taht arise from this might be overcome by
proper checks in the Upper House. Many people who voted for Union in 1864 were opposed
to some of the provisions of the Quebec Scheme. And during the late elections he had
frequently been charged not to accept the Quebec Scheme without looking into it, and
trying to get some modifications. He hoped this point of representation would be met
by providing for an equal representation of every Province in the Upper Branch. When
the election of 1865 came off a majority of the people were against the Quebec Scheme,
and if those who came into power had confined their opposition to that Scheme, and
not carried it on against all Union, but had gone on and matured a better plan, they
would have obtained better terms. They did not do it, the tide turned, and on the
next wave the thirty-three men on the floors of teh House in favor of Union were returned.
Let them now be very careful that the succeeding wave did not carry them all away,
as it would be likely to do if they did not treat the question in a calm and deliberate
manner. He thought the question should have been laid before the House for their consideration,
and then hon. members would have had an opportunity to speak the convictions of their
minds on this great matter. If he could not get Union in broad daylight and openly
he would not have it at all. The foundation must be laid and cemented in an open and
manly way. He would not speak of some of the alterations the delegates should demand.
He would, if he could, secure some modifications to the provision for representation
by population. He feared that this could not be done, but still he would claim it
as a right and a benefit to all the Colonies. The Quebec Scheme was started at the
time of the war in the United States, before Grant had taken Richmond or Sherman had
made his grand march through georgia to the ocean, when they thought that the republic
was in the throes of dissolution, and consequently it was teh negation of all that
was found in the American Constitution. There the states have the power, and that
power they weild for the general good. But in the Quebec Scheme the General Government
take all the power and dribble it out to the separate States. This was a feature in
the Scheme he had always been opposed to. If the delegates had intended to have formed
a separate nationality, he could have forgiven them for this, but they did not, neither
did the people desire a new flag or the power to make war, to coin money, or any other
functions perform
DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866. 49
ed by an independent power. All they wanted was to form a Union for the purposes of
commerce and defence. If the Provinces had been going into a Legislative Union they
would not have needed a Scheme, the Common Law woud have sufficed as the basis, but
in a Federal Union it was necessary that the Constitution should be a written one,
and it requires the greatest care and deliberation in the preparation of its provisions.
The hon. member for York (Dr. Dow) his fastidious friend who opposed his request,
would rear up a nation in a half-an-hour as he would a wood boat. He did not like
the arrangement with regard to the appointment of the Judges. For the first ten years
they were to be appointed from their own respective bars. He woud make it for all
time. In England, Scotland, and Ireland they had their own Judges. It was well known
that it took the best minds in the country to make a lawyer, and then it required
years of close and careful study to become acquainted with the Common Law, and years
again to know the Statute Law, and it should be provided that when Judges are appointed
they should be taken from the bars of the respective Provinces where the vacancy occurs.
How was it in Maine, and the other States ? They all had their own Judges, men whose
decisions and writings on jurisprudence are co-even and co-equal with those of the
Judges in England. He had no objection to the appointments being in the hands of the
Central Government. Then the General Government had a veto power over all the acts
of the Provinces. If New Brunswick or Nova Scotia were to pass a law which they found
to be required and it was afterwards declared unconstitutional by the General Government,
it would cause a great deal of discontent. The whole might be obviated by placing
the matter in the Judiciary, for the reverence of our people for the Bench is deep
and constant. See how it is ; a man is in political life, deep in the turmoil and
strife of an election. He is a fit mark for the wit or sarcasm of any one, but he
is raised to the Bench by the party in power, and the people cease to scoff and already
reverence. Yes, if the veto power were in the hands of the Judges, the people would
bow to their decisions, but they would not if left with politicians. Next with regard
to the eighty cents a head on the population of 1861. He would have it altered so
that it should be on the population whatever it might be for all time to come. Why
not left the eighty cents go on increasing with the population ? But it may be said
Canada will go on and get much more than we. That could not be contradicted, but how
would it be now ? He believed if the people thought they were going to get eighty
cents ahead according to the
population they would be satisfied. He
would have it so arranged that in time the local governments would get the management
of the monies rather than the federal, thus giving them less to do, whilst it increased
the work to be done by the Local Legislatures. Then he did not see any check by which
the Constitution was secured to us provided the other Provinces wished to alter it.
The Constitution of the United States provided that it could not be altered without
an appeal and vote of three-fourths of the States. He thought if this were done we
should be much safer. Then if they could alter the General Constitution, why may they
not after a time obtain the power to alter the local Constitution ? If these things
were not secured he would have it done. He would pour the oil of good feeling upon
the wheels, so that they might run smoothly and work well. He thought the delegates
should be instructed but not trammelled. They would leave with his best wishes, but
he thought the House should have been informed how many were to be sent, and who they
would be. There were some men he would not send for his right arm, whilst there were
others in whom he had every confidence. He would pick out five or seven men from the
Government and from the House, or from both Houses, but they should be the best men,
and the House should know who they were. On the second application to the people they
had decided, as he believed, right ; but he told his people that he would bring his
judgment to bear upon the deliberation of the whole matter, and now by the action
taken by the Government, he was in the position, that if he voted against the Resolution
Confederation would be jeopardized. He hoped that all would yet turn out well, that
the delegates would not act with selfish or ambitious motives. No delegation ever
left these or any other Colonies with such destinies in their hands, and he trusted
they would return with a good report. If they did not, the people would not be satisfied.
He should vote for the Resolution.
Dr. DOW did not know that there
was anything fastidious in asking the
same favor of the House as the hon.
member had done. All he asked for
was that the mover of the amendment
should close the debate as was customary. He had always looked upon this
question as one that rose above party
or prejudice. When was the first objection taken to the Quebec Scheme ?
not till the people had risen to a sense
of the benefits which were to arise from
a Union of. these Colonies. It had been
objected by the hon. member for St.
John, that the power was in the hands
of the General Government, and he had
referred to the United States during the late war. But did not the hon. member know
that it was because there was then a great central head and controlling power that
the Union was preserved ? Had the power been in the seperate States, where would the
Union have been to-day ? The delegates were going home to a country and a Government
who would not do anything to the prejudice of these Provinces. In his canvas through
the County he had said, if you vote for me you vote for the Quebec Scheme, and no
railway no Union. He did not say the scheme was perfect ; it was drawn up by men,
and all are liable to err. But what were some of the objections raised. Oh ! the people
were going to be taxed to death. Next Fisher, Tilley and Gray had bought up the Fenians
at $50 a head, and so the people got frightened. There was an old lady up in Canterbury
who was very much alarmed about them, and one day when he called she asked him how
about the Fenians ? He replied they were all gone now. But said she, " Don't you think
they'll come back ?" He thought not, unless they might turn up on the fishery question.
" There," she said, "I knew it was
some of that Fisher's work. He is always doing some mischief or other. "
And so it is, the impression was made
that the Fenians, the Fishery business,
and Fisher were all mixed up together.
He did not say the scheme was perfect,
but he had full faith in the men who
would go home that they would labor
for the best interests of the country
He had seen 45,000 acres of land bought
up by one man for a mere nominal
sum, because it was in such a position
that roads would not likely to be made
through it for many years. But 15,000
acres of that land was as pretty farming
land as the eye could desire to look on,
and if a railroad were run through it,
it would be of immense value. Our
young men were leaving our country
because there were no improvements
going on to open our country and develope its resources. This would only
be changed by uniting the interests of
all the Provinces. He was prepared to
vote for the Resolution.
Mr. SMITH, in closing the debate,
said—I do not complain of the tone
adopted during this debate, except to the
remarks made by the Provincial Secretary, and I think the House, on calm reflection,
will say that his speech lacked
that dignity which was due to the subject and to the House. I stand in a very
different position to the Provincial Secretary, for while this feeling of the House
is concurrent with his views, I am aware
that I address an unwilling audience, but
50 DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866.
duty to myself and to my country try to require that I should reply. I think, Mr.
Speak er, that the hon. Secretary should have striven to combat my arguments rather
than to have entered into personalities. I said nothing to call for his singling me
out almost by name, and making me the subject of an attack. In the late election I
scarcely referred to any on thing by name, but all his speeches have been directed
to the impugning of my motives. Now, if this was the question, he would like to ask
the hon. Provincial secretary if he was not influenced in his labors by a desire to
go to Ottawa?
Mr. SMITH - Yes, Mr. Speaker, you see he can't say he is not so influenced, there is the reservation
- I do not think I am. He is not prepared to say in a straightforward manner that
such motives have no effect upon him.
Hon. Mr. TILLEY - I know, Mr. Speaker, it is hard for a man to know himself, and, therfore, I replied
in that guarded way.
Mr. SMITH - Now, I don't say he is thus influenced, but he attacked me, and he says I am the
worst politician in this country. Well, in return, I will say that he is the most
ambitious and unscrupulous. He has some qualities that I much admire. He is certainly
persevering in his efforts to bring about that which he desires, but he is not particular
about the means. He said he was willing to get better terms than the Quebec Scheme,
but did not leave the impression that they would be had. Did he not strive to prove
that it was a perfect Scheme. The Speech he has made here will be read by the delegates
from Canada on their way to England and what will he say to them, and how will he
meet this people again if the Quebec Scheme be fastened upon us? But I must do honor
to the hon. member from St. John, who although he will cast his vote on the opposite
side, has yet taken up and treated this subject on broad and philosophical views.
He has acted in a bold, manly, independent manner, and has done himself infinite honor.
The matter should have been submitted to us. It is not before us. It is on the Journals
of last year, but we can't retrace our steps and look at it. The Secretary tells us
- in a manner unheard of before - that he cannot tell this House what terms they will
ask, as somebody may get a hold of it in Canada, and thus defeat the measure. Is this
not political fraud and concealment? Is it not clear that they are willing to carry
a Scheme against the will and wishes of a majority of the people of this country?
The hon. member for York said the scheme was not perfect, but he did not tell us his
objections to it. He says that young men are
going away; so they are and others are coming here. This is only natural. Man is restless
and roving, and we get men from England, Ireland and Scotland, but we don't hear anything
about them. The Provincial Secretary quoted from the Journals to show that an offer
of Union had been made us in 1858. But let us see his reply. Here is Tilley against
Tilley.
MEMORANDUM OF THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL IN COMMITTEE
To His Excellency the Honorable J.H.T. MANNERS-SUTTON, Lieutenant Governor, &c., &c., &.
The Committee of Council have had under consideration the Despatch of the Governor
General ofthe 9th inst., containing the Report of the Excutive Council fo Canada,
on the subject of a Federation Union of the British North American Provinces.
The Council are deeply impressed with the importance of the subject, requiring, as
it does, the most deliberate and mature consideration.
The British North American Provinces have each attained a great degree of material
prosperity under their present Constitution; and the increased power of self-government
recently conferred on them has left nothing to envy in the political condition of
the citizens of the neighboring Republic.
* Â *Â Â Â *Â Â Â *Â Â Â *Â Â Â *Â Â Â *Â Â Â *
This is true; the country has gone on with great rapidity. But the trouble with the
Provincial Secretary is that he is too ardent and sanguine. His imagination paints
things in very bright colors, and he is apt to believe it is all real. For example,
he introduced some yars ago the Prohibitory Liquor Law, and he told us that if it
was carried it would entail blessings on the country. Well, it was carried, and the
result proved that the Secretary's predictions were all wrong, for not only was the
country thrown into two elections, but I believe there has beeen more drinking since
as the consequence of that law then ever was before. Now he say I never introduced
any great measure; will, this is one of the great measures brought forward by the
Secretary. Then there was the Inter-colonial Railway. He made an arrangement with
Canada to build that road, and went to England on a delegation to consummate the whole
affair, and when he returned he told us that Messrs. Howland and Sicotte, the Canadian
delegates had broken faith, and there was the end of that matter. These gentlemen
think they are not guilty of that charge. All that time I was Attorney General, and
was associated with the Secretary, and on that question I resigned my office. He says
I am opposed to Railways. That is not the case; but in the matter of incurring large
liabilities I am, and have been very cautious. He says I show great inconsistency
in my
action and statements. Now in 1862 I said that the Railway was costing ÂŁ 200 a day,
and that every passenger cost ÂŁ 5. That was a fact, but is that any reason why at
the present time I should not look forward to its paying six per cent. Is there any
inconsistency in that? Now I will read what I did say in my resignation in 1862.
"RESIGNATION OF HON. A.J. SMITH.
"FREDERICTON, Oct.10, 1862.
"SIR: The delegates representing the Government of this Province at the Convention
recently held in Canada to consider the subject of the Inter Colonial Railway from
Halifax to Quebec, have undertaken, on behalf of this Province, to build the railway
conjointly with Canada and Nova Scotia, and to bear seven twenty-fourths of the cost
of the work; and the Council have affirmed their action, and are preparing to take
steps to give effect to the arrangement so made.
"This scheme is, in my opinion, fraught with consequences most injurious to the welfare
and best interests of this Province. It involves a heavy charge upon the Province,
which, added to our present indebtedness, will impose a financial burden which I think
our population and resources will not justify upon any sound principle of political
economy.
"A very important element in the consideration of this subject, in my judgement, is
the fact that thes works are to be constructed with borrowed foreign capital, the
payment of the interest of which will be a never-ending drain upon our financial resources,
which ultimately must have a most withering effect upon the prosperity and seriously
retard the advancement of the Province.
"It should not be forgotten that the interest on the debt already contracted for our
present railway is about ÂŁ 200 per day. The earnings of the road it may be fairly
said are not more than sufficient to pay the running expenses, including wear and
tear. The interest is paid abroad, and I am much mistaken if the effect of this has
not already been highly prejudicial to the business of the country.
"Our present financial condition is by no means flattering, and will require the most
careful and prudent management in order to meet local requirements and preserve public
faith.
"The proposed enterprise if accomplished must largely increase taxation, which in
my estimation the people are unable and unwilling to bear, our present tariff is as
high as circumstances will warrant.
"My views on this subject may be erroneous, but I have given it the most careful and
deliberate consideration, with a full appreciation of its magnitude and the importance
of teh step I am about to take. Under these circumstances I feel myself constrained
by a sense of public duty to seperate from my colleagues, and retire from the Government,
and I now beg to tender to your Excellency my resignation. Â *Â Â Â *Â Â Â *"
The debate and House was here adjourned till to-morrow morning at 9 o'clock.
J.M.
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