PROVINCIAL ASSUMPTION
OF DEBTS
Hon. Sir JOHN A.
MACDONALD moved the second reading
of the Bill to readjust the provincial debt. He said in consequence of
the resolution of the House last night in regard to the printing
contract, there had been some delay in the printing of the Bill, but
his hon. friend the Minister of Finance desired to move its second
reading today.
Hon. Mr. CAUCHON
said, without speaking at all of the
question of the liabilities of the respective Provinces, some
provision should be made by which Upper and Lower Canada
should be treated on the same basis, and have as equal and fair
share of compensation arising out of this distribution as the other
Provinces.
He gave notice that
on the third reading he would move,
seconded by Hon. Mr. Dorion, in amendment to the fourth clause of
the Bill, that the following words be added:-"Provided
always that
these last amounts go towards equalizing the debts and subsidies
between all the Provinces, according to population, real or assumed,
with which they entered Confederation."
Hon. Mr. WOOD said
the Hon. Minister of Finance (Hon.
Mr. Tilley) must keep a running account with the Provinces, and
when the debt of any party exceeded that stipulated in the statute be
charged that Province 8 per cent upon the differences, or vice versa
when the amount was under the stipulated sum. It was an
impossibility, notwithstanding the remarks of the Minister of
Justice the other night to close that account.
Hon. Mr. WOOD said,
speaking generally, he did not see that
this would in any way settle the difference between Ontario and
Quebec. He wished it would. (
Hear, hear.) However, they had
always managed to keep their tempers over the matter. He
contended that the difference surrounding this matter would be as
great as before. As to the advantages to the Provinces, it seemed to
him it would be very small. Ontario and Quebec would each receive
between $3,000,000 and $4,000,000, Nova Scotia over $67,000,
New Brunswick over $60,000, British Columbia about $11,000, and
that to Manitoba as small as $6,967. This was too little for that
poor, small Province, and the Minister of Finance would require to
make some provision for it. Increasing subsidies all round
amounted to $13,386,934. The debt at Confederation was
$77,000,000, and it might surprise those who had studied the matter
thoroughly that it had now reached the sum of $82,000,000.
This was caused by
subsidies to the several Provinces being
treated as an usual charge upon the revenues instead of being
capitalized and treated as a consolidated debt, as was the case in the
old Provinces of Canada. Then there were $40,000,000 to be
expended upon Public Works, $1,000,000 on the lntercolonial
Railway, $20,000,000 on Canals and $30,000,000 upon the Canada
Pacific Railway subsidies alone, without accounting for the
sum
voted the other day to New Brunswick, under the heading of
compensation for
timber dues, would amount to over $34,000,000.
New subsidies, as he had already stated, amounted to $13,284,000,
New Brunswick export duty $3,000,000, Prince Edward Island
$7,704,000; that is to say a total of $226,683,700 of debt up to the
present time. These items were so simple that they were easily
calculated, and he did not see how his hon. fiiends could
have
arrived at the conclusion to which they pointed.
It was said the
country was very prosperous which conclusion
was arrived at upon the basis of the treaty, returns, imports and
exports particularly. He reminded the hon. gentleman of the debts
that followed the period of financial prosperity from 1846 to
1864,
during which so many railways and public works were under
construction. No doubt for a few years to come the expectations of
the Finance Minister would be realized, but we were heading up
against time, the tide turned and heavy burdens were being laid
upon the country by this Government against the future. He
reminded by asserting that our public debt was not a cent less than
he had concluded, namely above $110,000,000.
Hon. Mr. TILLEY: If
the hon. gentleman had gone on and
extended all the obligations of the Dominion he might have greatly
increased the amount of the liabilities of the country. By the bill the
debt would be increased from $62,500,000 to $73,000,000. He
hoped some means could be divided by which Ontario and Quebec
would agree upon the assets.
Hon. Mr. DORION (Napierville) referred to the passing of the
Act of Confederation, when it was expected everything would work
smoothly; yet they had extended upon the first session of
the second
Parliament when it was proposed to have everything to place. It was
prepared to give to New Brunswick a subsidy which was agreed to
about $1,000,000, and which would be $800,000 more than they
were entitled to by the figures of the Finance Minister
himself
When the Government were asked how it was they happened to
take up the question, a reply was given that it was the member from
Napierville who had proposed such arrangement two years ago. He
denied that he made any such proposition. It was of a different
nature.
The Finance Minister
(Hon. Mr. Tilley) had shown that he was
unable to grapple with the question of the settlement of the decision
of the debt between Ontario and Quebec. If he could not deal with it
let him appoint a committee to enquire into the whole subject. He
held that under the Confederation Act, the Great Western and
Northern Railway debts should go to the reduction of the debt of
Ontario and Quebec, and he argued that, judging from what had
been stated in the House, we would have a demand in a few years
from the New Brunswick and Nova Scotia Governments to hand
over the railways in these Provinces to them.
Hon. Mr. DORION (Napierville) said that taking into
consideration the position of these roads he promised the Dominion
would not raise much objection. He argued that the Government
should take into their hands the settlement of the whole question of
634 COMMONS DEBATES May 20, 1873
amendments to the
following bills, and asking the concurrence of
the House in the same:
To incorporate the
Canada Investment and Guarantee Agency.
To incorporate the Merchants' Warehousing Company.
To empower the
Montreal and Northern Colonization Railway
Company, and to extend its line.
To incorporate the
Labrador Company.
To grant additional
powers to the Quebec and Gulf Steamship
Company.
To incorporate the
Goldsmiths Company of Canada.
***
PRINCE EDWARD ISLAND
Hon. Mr. TILLEY moved
the House in Committee to consider
certain proposed resolutions respecting the admission of Prince
Edward Island into the Dominion of Canada, and the message of his
Excellency the Governor General on that subject. He stated that the
Government had been endeavouring since confederation, to get this
beautiful and fertile Island into the Union.
The
difficulty had always been that in consequence of their
isolated position they could not receive an appropriation for local
purposes, as they were entitled to, a debt having been incurred by
the Island Railway. A deputation had in January been sent up to
arrange terms of union. Another delegation had been recently sent
up, empowered to enter into the final arrangements which were
now
submitted to Parliament. The great local works there having been
now completed, there could never be any large local expenditure in
the future, and it was in consideration of this fact that the Dominion
Government had granted such liberal terms.
The House went into
Committee, Mr. CHIPMAN in the chair.
Hon. Mr. TILLEY
explained that the expenditure of the Island
would be $480,000, and the receipts would, under the Dominion
tariff, have been $441,898 last year.
Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE
enquired what loss would accrue to
the Dominion by having the Island Railway.
In answer to Mr.
Cartwright,
Hon. Mr. TILLEY said
the railway was under contract and the
Dominion would not be liable for any excess of these contracts, but
that excess would be charged against the debt of the Islands. In
reference to the tariff he said that the Island charged a duty of
11 1/2 per cent, on what the Dominion charged 15.
Hon. Mr. WOOD
advocated the assumption of the whole debt
of the Island by the Dominion and the giving to the Island of all
local works.
Afier some
further discussion the resolutions were reported
without amendment.
The report was
adopted amid applause on both sides of the
House.
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