1274 COMMONS DEBATES April 29,1870
THE NORTH-WEST
Hon. Mr. McDougall-Before the orders of
the day are put, although I do not see either of the two Ministers leading the Government
present in their seats, I would like to ask the Government when the Bill in relation
to the North-West, which has been promised for the last two or three days, is likely
to be submitted to the House.
Hon. Mr. McDougall--Then, Sir, I will just take the opportunity of making a remark or two on this subject.
I will call the serious attention of the hon. gentlemen on the Treasury Benches to
the importance of speedy action in relation to this matter. Sir, those who have studied
the question at all, are well aware that if an expedition is to be sent to that country--if
this Parliament or country are to assume the responsibility of sending a force of
the Dominion into that country for the purpose of enforcing the authority of the Canadian
Government and the Crown, they know, I say, that it is above all things important
that the force should be on the march at the very earliest possible moment. Now I
understand that the canals are open and that there is no natural difficulty to the
adoption of that course within a week or two. Yet it is perfectly evident to my mind
that, if the Government have not decided upon that subject, if they have not determined
upon the character of the measure to be submitted, or as to the amount of money they
will ask for the expedition, and the terms on which it is to be organized, then I
say they are derelict in their duty to the country and the high authority of the Crown,
in not having done so and submitted it to the decision of this House. We have had
promises, I see by the newspapers, within the last two or three weeks, that they would
submit their policy within a day or two, and on one occasion it was promised within
a few hours; but now we were told that it is not to be submitted till Monday. The
1275
session is rapidly going on, and unless the
Ministry are prepared to submit their policy
immediately, I say it will prove altogether
disastrous to the country, (hear).
Hon. Mr. Howe—I would much prefer that
one or other of the leaders of the House were
present to answer this question. I may say that
the House and country may rest assured that
there has been no want of zeal or of industry
on the part of the Government in dealing with
this question; but the House will see when the
subject is brought before it in its entirety that
there are various and different interests to be
consulted, and the necessity of having perfect
agreement between the Imperial and Dominion
Governments has thrown a great responsibility
on the Cabinet; but these have been dealt with,
and that in such a manner as is compatible
with the best interests of this Dominion,
(hear). I would say also with regard to the
Cabinet, that they have been from the first,
and they are now, so far as I know, united upon
their policy.
Mr. Mackenzie—Of course, I can easily
understand that the hon. gentleman might reasonably ask for delay in this matter until
some
of his colleagues, who are supposed to lead the
Government in this House, should be in their
place, but sir, we have asked day after day, and
we have been promised day after day, that this
matter should be proceeded with, (hear, hear).
We were promised the Bill early in this week,
and on Tuesday night we were promised by the
Minister of Militia, in the absence of the first
Minister, that it would not certainly be later
than the end of this week, (hear, hear). Now,
sir, the House adjourned last night without
any motion having been made to set to-morrow. We are therefore to presume that the
House will not sit to—morrow. This, therefore,
is the last sitting this week, and yet the Bill is
not brought down, and no intimation has been
given by the Government of their policy,
(cheers). They have not made any statements
of the relations existing with the Imperial
Government, (hear, hear). I have seen that
within the last day or two a question was
asked in the Imperial Parliament in reference
to it, and the answer of the Imperial Ministry
was that they were still in communication with
the Dominion Government.
Mr. Mackenzie—Yes. Now, what I complain
of is that this House being within a few days of
its prorogation, this matter seems to be systematically delayed by the Government,
(hear,
hear). I have refrained in consideration of the
public interests from pushing this matter any
1276 COMMONS DEBATES April 29, 1870
faster than I have done, but now it becomes
absolutely necessary that we should wait no
longer, and I now tell the hon. gentleman that
unless we receive some definite indication of
the policy of the Government, that I shall give
notice to-night of a motion to bring it forward
on Monday, (hear).
Hon. Sir Francis Hincks—Of course, it is
perfectly competent for the hon. gentleman to
give notice, but I protest against the assertion
that there have been systematic delays on the
part of the Government, (hear). The hon. gentleman and the House ought to know that
there
is a very grave state of matter existing in the
North-West Territory, and he ought to know
that it is of the greatest importance that the
Government should come down with a measure which will give satisfaction to the people
of
the whole Dominion, (hear). He ought to know
that sending the expedition to which he
referred is a matter of the very greatest gravity, and also the circumstances under
which
that expedition may go, whether it is to be an
expedition of peace, as I sincerely hope and
trust it may be, (cheers). I believe that the
measure which is to be brought down here will
give not only satisfaction to this House and the
country but also to the people of that Territory,
(hear). I say, sir, under these circumstances
the Government will not be provoked by the
taunts of hon. gentlemen opposite to act prematurely, to come down with a measure
without giving the best and fullest consideration
that it is in their power to give to this most
important matter, (hear).
Hon. Sir Francis Hincks—The Government
are not neglecting it; they are giving their
constant attention, I may say, to this question
day by day, and explanations have been going
on. Certainly, I admit that we have been from
day to day in expectation that everything
would be closed, and that we should be able to
bring down and explain our policy at an earlier
moment than we have been able to do, but
what is a day or two compared with having
matters arranged in a satisfactory manner,
(hear). I am happy to know that the members
of the Government are one and all under the
conviction that they will be able to bring down
a solution of the difficulties connected with
this question—that they will be able to come
down with the full co-operation of Her Majesty's Imperial Government, and to obtain
the
full concurrence of this House and the entire
country, (hear).
Mr. Mackenzie—The hon. gentleman will
admit that the Government are bound to fulfil
1277
their promises, and the time has now elapsed.
The latest time that they asked is now up. The
Bill was to be brought down to-day, (hear). I
do not intend to say anything more about that
now, but I rise for the purpose of asking
whether the Government intend to vote the
House to sit to-morrow? (Hear.)
Hon. Sir Francis Hincks—The Government
think that they will facilitate the business of
the country by not asking the House to sit
to-morrow.
Mr. Masson (Soulanges) thought it would
be well for the House to adjourn for a fortnight
or a month to give good time to well consider
the matter. (No! No!) The whole country was
anxious about this North-West question, and
many members on both sides were desirous
that the Government should take time to consider it.
Hon. Mr. Langevin repeated the explanation
in French and said the Government had made
great progress with the Bill, but did not wish to
bring it down till it was quite complete.
Hon. Mr. Holton—There was one point in
the observation of the Finance Minister that
struck me as very important indeed. He
expressed the hope, on the part of the Government, that they would very soon be enabled
to
bring down a measure which would command
the approbation of this House and be in accordance with the views and wishes of the
Imperial
Government. The plain inference from that
observation is that the Administration has not
as yet come to a full understanding with the
Imperial Government as to the measures to be
taken in the North-West matter, (hear, hear). I
think, sir, we are entitled to know whether
that inference is true, (hear, hear). Nothing
should be left to inference in so important a
matter as this. I inferred, and my hon. friends
near me inferred, from the language of the hon.
gentleman that no absolutely final agreement
had yet been come to between the Government
of the Dominion and the Imperial Government
in reference to the North-West matter, (hear,
hear).
Hon. Mr. Dunkin—Of course, in the absence
of the hon. gentlemen who are more particularly in charge of this matter, it is not
right for me
to give an answer to that question; but this I
am fully entitled to say, that the inferences
attempted to be drawn from the words of my
colleague, the Finance Minister, are utterly
unwarranted and unfounded.
1287 COMMONS DEBATES April 29,1870
Hon. Mr. Dunkin—I have stated nothing to
imply that. When the Bill is brought down, the
whole matter will be fully and satisfactorily
explained.
Hon. Mr. Holton—That may be, but the hon.
gentleman must admit that we are as competent to draw inferences as he is (hear),
and
he will not deny that when a member of the
Administration rises in his place and expresses
the hope that the measure to be brought down
will meet the approval of the Imperial Government, that the inference is plain that
no
arrangement has yet been come to. I think that
there can be no mistake about that.
Hon. Sir Francis Hincks said the hon. gentleman was confounding his two statements,
one with reference to the measure to be
brought down, and the other with regard to the
expedition. It was impossible to communicate
with the Imperial Government on all the little
details of the Bill. There was not the least
doubt that not the slightest difficulty, would
be raised on the question of the expedition by
the Imperial Government. (Hear.)
Hon. Mr. Cameron (Peel) thought that not a
single member of the House wished to drive
the Government into any premature action. He
hoped that the Government would be able to
bring down their policy on Monday.
Hon. Mr. Chauveau thought that there was
one thing more to be deprecated than want of
forbearance in the matter, and that was the
rending of the several parts of the Dominion
into pieces. (Hear.) Until that time all the
members had shown the greatest forbearance,
and he hoped the Government would not be
forced into a hasty disclosure of their views.
He hoped the matter would be allowed to rest
for a few days more, until the House would be
able to assume that responsibility which as the
representatives of the people they were under,
and be able to give effect to their resolutions.
Hon. Mr. Dorion said that the Finance Minister had very properly divided the subjects
into two parts. With regard to the measure for
the Government of the North-West Territory,
it was announced in the speech from the
Throne, and for two and a half months the
Opposition had been anxious to hear the terms
of that measure. He did not think it could be
said that they were unduly pressing the Government at that moment. If the Government
told them that they wanted a week they would
not have pressed them for that week; but from
day to day they were told that it would be
ready, and three days ago they were informed
that it was but a question of hours. (Hear.) He
thought that it was not unreasonable to show a
little anxiety on the point at that late period of
1279
the session. But there was another measure
about which he was more anxious, and that was the expedition. If the Government were
making preparations, and they read of it in every newspaper throughout the land, he
thought they had stated policy as to that expedition, and the Government was not justified
in withholding from the House the terms and conditions of the expedition. He had no
wish to press them for their policy on matters in which they were not acting; but
it had been admitted that action had been taken in this matter of an expedition. The
Government were not justified in adopting any measure for an expedition without letting
the House know what its policy was and taking the opinions of the representatives
of the people upon it. He hoped the Government would feel the necessity of satisfying
the just expectations not only of the representatives but of the whole people of the
Dominion upon both points. (Hear.) He had not the least wish to press the Government
for a hasty decision on one point; but with regard to the other, which they seemed
to have decided upon, the House had a right to information.
Mr. Dufresne said he was opposed to a military expedition to the North-West, and to the heavy
expenses that might be incurred to acquire that Territory by force of arms.
Mr. Gibbs rose to a question of order. The
House was not now called upon to discuss the property of an expedition to the North-West.
Mr. Ferguson rose to speak, but was interrupted by noises from both sides of the House. He was
persisting in his attempt to address the House, when the Speaker said he had better
yield to the unmistakeable sentiment of the House.
(Cries of Chair, Chair). The matter then dropped.
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