THE ADDRESS
The consideration of the address in answer
to the Speech from the Throne was then
taken up.
Mr. Simpson (Algoma) moved the adoption
of the Address. On looking round him he saw
so many in every way better qualified for the
task he had undertaken that he felt keenly
his own inability; but he trusted that the
same kindness which had been extended to
him on a former occasion, would also be extended to him on this. With the opening
paragraphs of the Speech few hon. gentlemen
would, he believed, differ. He would desire
more particularly to allude to the acquisition
of the Hudson's Bay Territory. They could
not go into a single railway station without
finding crowds of emigrants, some of them
the young men of the country, who were
going to find their home in the Western
States which the Dominion had not to offer.
Hence, it was a subject of profound congratulation that these negotiations had been
carried on and completed, and that there could
be now opened up to emigration a Territory
offering far greater advantages than any portion of the United States. It was high
time
this Hudson's Bay difficulty should be surmounted; for if Canada did not take hold
of
that country at once, in the course of a few
years she would be squatted out. Minnesota
and Dacotah were rapidly filling up, bringing
the tide of immigration to the very borders
of that North West Territory. He had lived
some time in that section, and believed that
its opening up and access to it by way of
Canada would be an immense boom to the
farming population of this Continent—as well
as Europe. He knew the hardships endured
6 COMMONS DEBATES
April 16, 1869
by settlers in the bush, where a man's lifetime almost was spent before he could earn
a competency; while, in this new territory, a
poor man could go in and get a splendid start
in a couple of years. As a grazing country, too,
it had no superior. But the first thing to be
secured, on the acquisition of that territory,
would be good and easy communication between Canada and the North-West, through
the British territory. For the last two years
the Government had been engaged in opening a road between Thunder Bay, Lake Superior,
and Fort Garry. His opinion was that
there was only one mode of communication
by which they could hope to accomplish
much in that section, and that was by railroad. If the Dominion had not cash enough,
then let them give lands to build such a railroad. One of the earliest steps to be
taken
regarding the North-West was, the formation
of a proper Government there. A land oifice
of some description ought also be speedily
established. The aborigines, he would also
remind them, had to be dealt with. A very
material step to take would be the establishment of a department which would act honourably
and justly towards the Indians; and
though the Hudson's Bay Company was excessively unpopular in Canada, he believed
the Government could not do better than take
a leaf out of the Company's books, in the
management of the Indians. The Company
certainly never had any trouble with them;
but had since they came into their country
always maintained the most friendly relations with the aborigines. In the North-West,
he conceived, free grants of land would have
to be made. The reservation of the treaty to
be given to the Company had been objected
to; but he thought it indispensable even if
regard were had merely to that class of the
Company's officers which conducted their
trade in the country. Many of them had left
their homes when young. It was certain the
stockholders in London would never give
them a sixpence on transferring the territory, and these traders were men unfitted
for
the ordinary occupations of life. It would be
hard to cast them abroad on the world without giving them a chance. In connection
with
the opening up of this territory, something
had to be done to improve navigation on
Lakes Huron and Superior. Additional steamboat communication and harbours of refuge
would have to be provided. Coming to the
paragraphs regarding the admission of Newfoundland into the Union, the House would,
he was sure, fully agree with him that was a
subject of congratulation. With the Union full
and complete, there would be strength andÂ
7
peace. Having alluded to the other paragraphs of the address, the hon. gentleman
sat down amid cheers.
Mr. Bolton, in seconding the Address, said
he would not trouble the House at any great
length. It was gratifying to have His Excellency's assurances of the prevalence of
peaceful counsels among the nations of the earth,
giving the Dominion the assurance that it
might continue to enjoy the peace it had
hitherto been blessed with. In future, he
trusted their resources would be devoted to
the extension of the peaceful and industrial
interests of the Dominion. In view of prospective large additions to the Dominion,
it
was to be hoped that those peaceful sentiments would continue to prevail, and that
the resources of the Dominion would be largely increased. Having expressed his gratification
that Newfoundland had asked for
admission into the Union, he expressed the
pleasure he felt at the prospect that the discontent of Nova Scotia would be allayed.
He
was sure that for wrong done to Nova Scotia,
if any, reparation would be made. That was
something against which not a voice would
be raised. There were other topics of great
importance alluded to in the speech; but they
did not at that stage require a more extended
notice. He had great pleasure in seconding
the motion for the adoption of the address.
The Speaker having put to the House the
adoption of the first paragraph of the address,
Hon. Mr. Holton said that before proceeding to the debate on the address, he desired
to call the attention of gentlemen on the
Treasury Benches to the necessity for offering to the House explanations touching
the
changes made since last session in the constitution of the Government. They all heard
the rumour that a distinguished member of
the House who had been in strenuous opposition to the Government during the whole
of last Session, and not only in strenuous opposition to the Government, but to the
fundamental laws of the country, had become a
member of the Government. It was to be
taken for granted that the Government
11
now returned after a most successful mission
and the negotiations could be renewed. In the
meantime he could inform the House that the
Department of Inland Revenue had been
most successfully managed by the Post-
master-General, who attended to these additional arduous duties during the whole of
the winter, though at great personal loss and
labour. The interests of the public service in
this respect had not, therefore, suffered in
any way. The thing, of course, could not be
carried on, and it was the intention of the
Government to fill up the vacancy, and place
a responsible man at the head of the Department. As to the proportional representation
of the Provinces in the Cabinet, his honourable friend would remember that it was
stated by the Government during the first
session that these matters, the formation of
the Government, division of the offices, &c.,
were of necessity experimental, and this was
the case yet. In the event of the absorption
of the great North-West and Newfoundland
into the Dominion, new duties and responsibilities would be involved, and very probably
a re-adjustment of the different heads of the
Departments. But he had no doubt that within the limits of a legitimate opposition,
the
Government would be supported in any efforts they might make to administer the new
state of affairs. As to Mr. Howe, he (Sir
John) hoped the people of Hants would soon
enable that hon. gentleman to explain his
own position on the floor of the House.
Hon. Mr. Holton thanked the Minister of
Justice for his full and explicit information.
It would be unusual and inconvenient to
debate at that moment the policy involved in
the explanations; but there was just one
point more that ought to be explained. The
Minister of Justice said in the course of his
explanations, that negotiations had been entered into with the view of filling the
vacant
offices before the two members of the Cabinet
went to England. As a matter of courtesy,
the House was entitled to know what direction these negotiations took, and why they
did not go on. Having been informed that
negotiations had been entered into, the House
was entitled to know all about them.
Sir John A. Macdonald said that at the
proper time a full and frank explanation
would be given. The negotiations ought never
to be stated until they came to a result.
12 COMMONS
DEBATES April 16, 1869
Mr. Mackenzie said there was one other
point. The House had just been informed that
the filling up of certain offices had been a
matter of experiment. It would be desirable
that the House should be informed concerning the two offices of Secretaries of State.
Of
course, this House was aware that the duties
of both offices had been discharged by one
person, the member for Dorchester. The
House was entitled to know if that honourable gentleman was hereafter to discharge
the duties of both offices.
Sir John A. Macdonald was glad his attention had been called to that subject. The
office of Secretary of State had been created
because the necessity was felt for having a
channel of communication between the Dominion and Provincial Governments. It was
deemed desirable that the numerous questions which it was supposed would arise in
this way should be disposed of by some one
Minister. On the commencement of the new
order of things, however, it was found that
until the relative positions of the Provincial
and Dominion Governments were ascertained, until they came to be clearly defined like
those of old established Governments, a good
portion of the subjects which would be ordinarily assigned to the charge of the Secretary
of State, had to be disposed of by the
Minister of Justice. So many questions arose
in constitutional law and kindred topics, that
he, as Minister of Justice, had been obliged
to direct his attention to them. Therefore a
great deal of the work which would eventually fall on some such officer as the Secretary
of State, devolved at present on the
Minister of Justice. All correspondence between the Provinces and the Dominion of
course was conducted by the Secretary of
State. For the present it was proposed that
things should remain as they were, because
it was clear that if there was any necessity
for the offices, before the extension of the
Dominion boundary, that necessity would be
greatly increased the moment Newfoundland
and the North West became part of the Dominion. As he had stated before, the distribution
of offices and power was of necessity to
a great extent experimental in the Dominion.
From the mover of the Address they had
heard what the Government would be expected to do if they assumed the control of
the North-West. The subjects then alluded
to as having to be dealt with were numerous
16 COMMONS DEBATES
April 16, 1869
held in Norfolk in order to consider whether
it was possible for that hon. gentleman to
secure his re-election. The meeting, he presumed, turned out to be rather unsatisfactory
in its results, and a careful investigation of
the wording of the Act enabled the Government to come to the conclusion that it was
possible, in violation of the spirit of the law,
to allow the hon. gentleman to continue to sit
here without obtaining from his constituents
their sanction to his acceptance of office. How
were they to know to what extent this might
not be pushed; if this were permitted what
safeguard was there against the filling of this
House with office-holders? During the last
session of Parliament there had been considerable discussion on matters of economy;
and the hon. gentleman with whom he
claimed connection, had endeavoured to enforce economical principles on the Government.
Various large amounts were asked
for by the Administration. They wanted
$5,000,000 for fortifications; but in common
with others he had contended most earnestly
against granting any such sum for the fortification of an impossible frontier. It
had
been claimed by the Minister of Justice that
Mr. Howe had not taken a position against
the Government, having come here pledged
to adherence to no party in the House. Now
he (Mr. Mackenzie) had happened to have
taken down the words of that distinguished
gentleman. He desired to speak with all possible respect of him and say as little
as
possible against him until he was present,
if he was to be present, and able to defend
himself. But speaking of the acquisition of
the North-West Territory, Mr. Howe said—
"in speaking on this question, I shall try
to consider myself a Canadian, and speak
from that point of view." Mr. Howe then
spoke as a Canadian, supposing the Union to
be consummated. He was not speaking merely
as a Nova Scotian, but he gave his views as a
distinguished member of the House, and
these views were not only hostile, but
bitterly
hostile to the hon. gentlemen opposite.
(Hear, hear.) Who did not recollect the
powerful language in which he denounced
the entire fortification scheme of the Government and ridiculed the absurdity of the
Dominion Government, assuming control of the
management of the far North-West. The
hon. gentleman then seemed to prefer rather
that the territory should fall into the hands
of the United States, than that it should become part and parcel of the Dominion.
On
that policy he was at entire variance with
the Government, and it would be instructive
to know whether he has reversed his opinion
on this question, or whether the Government
17
have altogether ignored his opinion on this
and other material points of their policy when
they asked him to assume ofiice with them.
These observations had been made by Mr.
Mackenzie simply in consequence of the statements of the Minister of Justice that
he had
occupied a neutral position in the House. Had
the remarks not been made, he should not
have taken the liberty of dealing with the
President of the Council in his absence. Reverting to the question of fortifications,
he
(Mr. Mackenzie) expressed his surprise that
nothing had been said as to the progress of
these extensive works. Last year they were
considered necessary, because the Ministry
were apprehensive of war. The House was
now assured that there was no danger of such
a calamity. It would be well they should be
informed as to what had been done in the
way of fortifications, and if anything had
been performed during the recess. He had
visited certain portions of the country. He
had been up the Ottawa through the interior,
and had observed a number of points on the
Ottawa and Lake Superior admirably adopted
for fortifications if hon. gentlemen could only
induce the Yankees to come to these particular
places to make their attacks. (Laughter.) He
felt at present as he felt last Session, that they
had a most extravagant mode of conducting
the public affairs of the country. In their
attempts to re-organize their Departments;
and even in their Militia Law, what was it
but the same story—expense, expense continually! Take the Militia Law as a sample.
Under the former law, the enrollment was
effected without expense. The same service
had cost $63,000; and what was the grand
result of their attempt at improving the
Militia system? Simply that a more ridiculous farce than their present organization
was
never perpetrated on any civilized country.
In the western Province they had old superannuated men, who, for social and other
reasons were appointed as captains and
colonels. Men in every local city, as far as
he knew, had been appointed to officer the
battalions without any reference to their
military qualifications. Then they had Military Schools established by gentlemen now
at
the head of the Ontario Government; Schools,
which it was supposed would be of advantage
in this respect, that when they had been in
operation some years, they would have turned
out a body of trained officers, capable of discharging the duties appertaining to
commanders and subalterns of the militia force.
He did not know how it was in other counties;
but he believed that in his own county, though
many respectable men had been appointed,
men of both political parties, still there was
18 COMMONS DEBATES
April 16, 1869
not among them a man who could make any
pretentions to military knowledge, and he
believed matters to be worse still in the
county adjoining. These appointments had
been avowedly made from one little party;
and they had the hon. gentleman who was in-
trusted with this selection avowing in his own
paper that, until all his Tory friends had been
satisfied, not one should get a commission who
had opposed the Government or himself at
the last election. (Hear, hear.) This was the
new mode of administering the Militia affairs
of the Dominion. (Hear, hear.) In the Militia
administration there had not only been extravagance, but there had been a direct violation
of the votes passed by this House, and
the utmost practical inefficiency. He was told
the other day, on good authority, that in one
parish, where it was known there were altogether only 65 male adults, a return had
been
made of something over 300, in order to increase the amount allowed per head for
enrollment. He made these complaints with
profound regret. He was desirous to see the
Militia force organized on an efficient footing,
and he was sorry to say that, so far as he had
been able to observe, this had not been done.
The Minister of Militia was not directly to
blame, having been absent from the country
for six months, but some one ought to be held
responsible. Until the papers were brought
down, it would be manifestly inexpedient to
discuss the question as to the admission of
Newfoundland into the Confederation; but
as a sincere friend of the Union of the Provinces and British connection, he congratulated
the Government, the House and the
country on the application of another of our
North American Colonies to be admitted
into the Union, and he begged to say that
anything he could do to aid the Government
in carrying this matter to a successful completion should be done most heartily and
most cheerfully. (Hear, hear.) In regard to
the opening up of the North-West Territory,
he hoped the propositions of the Government
would be so well considered that it would
not be necessary for the hon. gentlemen acting
with him to propose any serious amendment,
as it was for the interest of the country that
all questions connected with the opening up
of that vast Territory should be settled as
soon as possible, and upon as equitable a
basis as possible. It was a serious matter to
undertake the government of that great Province, as it soon would be, and the whole
matter was one which would require the
utmost attention of the Government and all
other members of this House. He particularly
recognized in that his own responsibility, as
a member of the House, and should aid in
19
perfecting arrangements which would have
an influence on the condition of all the Provinces for many generations. Mr. Mackenzie
then reverted to the pernicious system inaugurated by this Government, in allowing
officeholders to retain their seats in the House
without even requiring them to go before
their constituents for re-election. He said they
might just as well admit Judges and other
such functionaries as the Arbitrator between
the Provinces and the Intercolonial Railroad
Commissioners. He had heard that another
member of the House was to be appointed a
Commissioner for codifying the laws; but he
sincerely trusted that if such a step had been
intended it would be reconsidered. Such a
policy was in the highest degree destructive
of public morality, and would gradually destroy in the public mind that respect which
ought to exist for the Legislature of the
country. There was another point to which
he would allude before sitting down. The
Minister of Justice professed to have constructed this Government on the Coalition
principle. They had been told by the Minister
of Public Works and the late Minister of
Inland Revenue that it was solely because it
was a Coalition Government that they had
entered it—that it was solely because such a
Government was necessary in order to the
right conducting of our affairs, and in order
to sustain some hon. gentlemen in the Lower
Province who had taken office, that they had
consented to enter it. Those hon. gentlemen
also claim that the three Reformers from Ontario, and the others from the Lower Provinces,
would be able to counterpoise the
Conservative element, or at least to equal it.
Well, if it was necessary that the Province
of Ontario should have three representatives
from the Reform ranks in the Cabinet, how
must it have suffered when there was only
one such representative, and that one absent
from the country for the last six months,
allowing the Conservative element to run
riot in the organization of the militia, the
management of the Intercolonial and everything else. (Hear, hear.) The Minister of
Customs belonged originally to the Reform
party, and perhaps it might be said that the
hon. gentleman had been sufficient for the
interests of that party in the Cabinet, in the
absence of his colleague; but if the hon.
gentleman yielded as easily on every matter
that concerned the party he professed to represent as he seemed to have yielded with
reference to the Intercolonial route, the protection given by him amounted to very
little.
The result had shown that he (Mr. Mackenzie) was right in the prophecy he
ventured to make when the Coalition was
20 COMMONS DEBATES April 16, 1869
formed, that it would end in the absorption
of the minority element. (Hear, hear).
Some of the Conservative organs, indeed,
had claimed that, as at the last election, the
Conservative element came a majority
amongst the representatives of Ontario;
therefore, the Ontario Conservatives were
entitled to three seats in the Cabinet, and the
Reformers to but two. With reference to this
he (Mr. Mackenzie) contended that this result
had been obtained by its being sedulously
urged upon the people that it did not matter
whether a Conservative or a Reformer was
elected, and that the only question with reference to a candidate should be whether
he
would support the Government. In this way,
by the joint action of the Minister of Justice
and the Premier of Ontario, the Reformers
had been cheated out of a fair representation
in this House.
Mr. Mackenzie said they had tried to
beat him, but had completely failed. The
honourable gentleman ventured to make a
pilgrimage into his (Mr. Mackenzie's) county,
but was compelled to beat an ignominious
retreat, and his majority was twice the number of the electors, if not of the souls,
in the
whole constituency. (Hear, hear). He had
thought it expedient to call the attention of
the Liberals in the House to the manner in
which they had been treated by honourable
gentlemen opposite. He had never expected
that the Minister of Public Works would be
either the representative or the protector of
the Reform party in the Cabinet; but he had
expected that some decent measure of attention would have been paid to the position
that was taken in the organization of the
Government. Mr. Mackenzie then said he
would refrain from entering on any more full
discussion of the matters embraced in the
address, until the papers were brought down,
and again congratulated the House on the
prospect we had that we should soon be not
merely in theory, but in fact, a Confederation
of the British North American Provinces- knit together in such a way as to promote
mutual interests and to maintain the glory of
our fatherland and our connection with it.
(Cheers).
Paragraphs two to five were agreed to.
Paragraph six, relating to the North-West
negotiations having been put-
Hon. Mr. Holton said there was an evident desire on the part of the House not
21
to prolong the debate, and agreeing in that
desire, he would not make a speech. He felt
bound to say, however, that so far as he
could judge from the papers which had been
published, he conceived we had nothing
whatever to congratulate ourselves upon
in the result of the mission to England.
He had been from the initiation of
the movement an agreeing party to
the policy of acquiring the North-West and
he still thought it most desirable we
should acquire it; but he must say, so far as
he could judge from these papers, that our
case had been most deplorably mismanaged.
We had now, perhaps, an opportunity of
getting that Territory; but it was on terms
which ought never to have been assented to.
He should be prepared at the proper time to
show, unless there were something in the
papers which had not yet been given to the
public, that our representatives had been
completely out-generaled by the very able
men who represented the H. B. Co. in England, and also by the Colonial Minister himself.
The sixth and the remaining paragraphs
of the Address were agreed to.
Sir John A. Macdonald then moved that the
resolutions be referred to a Committee, consisting of Messrs. Cartier, Tilley, Langevin,
Simpson, Bolton and the mover to prepare
and report an Address. —Carried.
The Committee immediately reported the
Address, which was ordered to be engrossed
and presented to His Excellency by such
members of the House as are members of
the Privy Council.
Hon. Mr. Holton reminded the Premier
that the names of the Intercolonial Railway
Commissioners had not yet been finally announced to the House.
Sir John A. Macdonald said a message,
making the announcement, was in his office
ready to be brought down.
Mr. Mackenzie asked when the papers
relating to the Nova Scotia arrangement, the
admission of Newfoundland and the acquisition of the Hudson's Bay Territory would
be brought down?
Sir John A. Macdonald said the Nova Scotia papers were complete, and would be
brought down immediately. The Newfoundland papers were incomplete, but he would
consider whether he could bring down the
papers showing what had been done so far.
The Hudson's Bay papers were also incom
22COMMONS DEBATESApril 16, 1869 plete. The Governor-General was warranted
in making the statement he did as to the
acceptance of the proposal by the Company,
having received a cable despatched to that
efiect from Earl Granville; but of course
a despatch from Earl Granville must be received before the House could be invited
to
take action.
Hon. Mr. Rose then moved that on Tuesday next His Excellency's speech be taken
into consideration as the first formal step
towards constituting a Committee of Supply.
Carried.
The House at 20 minutes past 5 adjourned
till Monday.
This individual participated in:
