1079
NORTH-WEST TERRITORY
Mr. Dufresne called attention to the presence in Ottawa of several gentlemen coming
from the North-West Territory. It was well
known that early in December last year, when
it was known that the population of the North-
West were hostile to the Dominion of Canada,
our Government very properly, he believed,
sent there a Commissioner delegated to see the
people and arrange matters with them, in order
that they might quietly submit to the authority
of the Government. Their Commissioners, it
appeared, had induced the population of that
Territory to send down gentlemen, selected
from amongst them, having power to act for
the population as delegates. Those delegates
were now amongst them, but on their arrival
they had been arrested as parties to a certain
crime committed in the North-West during the
time of the troubles. So far they had been
under the care of the police, but if this information was correct, they were going
to be
imprisoned to-morrow, at least two of them.
They had been induced to come amongst them
as delegates, and he should like to know from
the Government if they were looked upon as
such or if they came here on their own responsibility. It was painful to see that
they had
been induced, under the good faith of the Government, to come amongst them as delegates,
and had received no protection. If they came on
their own responsibility, of course it was their
own look-out. He could not refrain from men
1080 COMMONS DEBATES April 19, 1870
tioning that some few days ago they had been
threatened by a mob with being lynched, and
he had heard that a Government expert had at
the door of the Police Court threatened them,
and endeavoured to excite the public to hang
them on the spot. Of course the mob had more
good sense than the Government employee,
(hear, hear). He hoped the Government would
tell them in what manner they looked upon
these delegates.
Hon. Sir John A. Macdonald said they all
knew that there were gentlemen here from the
North-West, and that there were many people
desirous of having communication with the
Government more or less in connection with
matters in that Territory. The gentlemen to
whom the member for Montcalm had alluded
had not as yet come officially before the Government, nor had they come before the
Government in any way. He had the pleasure of a
meeting personally on Sunday evening with
Judge Black, with whom he had a conversation
on the country—a general conversation. Judge
Black had been introduced to him by Mr.
Smith, Government Commissioner; but had not
as yet been officially recognized. With respect
to those two gentlemen being arrested, the
Government had no way of knowing it more
than the member for Montcalm, except through
the press. The officers of the Dominion had no
concern in the administration of Criminal Justice—that rested with the Government
of each
Province. Though the arrest had been made
upon a charge of crime, he must ask the
member for Montcalm to consider it just in the
same way as if it had taken place in the city of
Toronto or the city of Quebec. If the arrest had
been made in Toronto, it would be a matter for
the Attorney-General of Ontario; if in Quebec,
the Attorney-General of Quebec. In no
instance could the Minister of Justice interfere, any more than the member for Montcalm.
He had no authority nor power whatever in the
matter of the arrest. With respect to the
Canadian Commissioners, the papers would
shew exactly what were the instructions given
to them in going to the North-West. Immediately after that unfortunate insurrection
or
armed resistance, it was the duty of the Governor General, by the advice of the Government,
in fact, it was his duty, as an Imperial officer,
if the Canadian Government had not given
advice, to communicate at once with the Home
Government in England. The Colonial Secretary, as the papers would shew, conveyed
at
once instructions by cable to Her Majesty's
representative, and those instructions had been
acted upon by the Government. They had not
yet received any communication on the part of
the people coming from Red River, in the way
of asking to be heard, or of submitting any
1081
grievance or proposition he might presume, but
if it was a mere presumption, it was a natural
and reasonable one that the fact of the process
being taken out against those two persons had
been one cause why they had not come to lay a
statement before His Excellency.
Mr. Dufresne—Were the Commissioners to
the North-West authorized to induce the people
there to believe that in case they failed to
arrange matters, delegates should be chosen to
go to Ottawa?
Mr. Dufresne—I understand the Minister of
Justice to say these delegates have not yet
caused their mission to be made known to the
Government in the character of delegates.
Mr. Dufresne—You have no official knowledge that they are here as delegates?
Hon. Sir John A. Macdonald—No person
has presented credentials as yet. Rev. Mr. Ritchot called on the Secretary of State
for the
Provinces, and said he had come from Red
River, but would defer submitting anything
until the arrival of Judge Black.
Mr. Dufresne said it was well known that
the arrest of these gentlemen would have a bad
effect in the North-West. The people there
were savages or half-savages, and would not
reflect whether the arrest were the action of
the Government, or made in the affidavit of a
private person.
Mr. Bowell said he knew the young man who
made the affidavit, and he enjoyed as good a
character as any gentleman in the House. He
also knew the young man that was murdered,
he having belonged to the battalion in which
he (Mr. Bowell) had a commission. The young
man who was murdered was of estimable character, and was not what some had represented
him to be.
Mr. Bown said the question was whether
they were the representatives of the population, or whether they were the representatives
merely from the self-constituted authority. The
Government certainly ought not, and no doubt
would not, recognize any such provisionally
constituted Government for the North-West,
(hear, hear). He would be sorry if they should
recognize the delegates as such, and while he
could easily understand why any man coming
1082 COMMONS DEBATES April 19, 1870
from the North-West should be attentively listened to, he could not suppose that the
Government intended to receive them as delegates
from that self-constituted authority.
Mr. Ross (Victoria, N.S.) said the hon. Minister of Justice had stated that no credentials
had been presented by the delegates. He would
like to know what credentials they could possibly have?
Hon. Sir John A. Macdonald said they could
have the credentials of representatives from
the meeting of the people. They all knew, as a
matter of course—every one who read the
newspapers knew—that they had an election
there, and also that Mr. Smith, of the Hudson's
Bay Company, went there as a Commissioner,
and suggested that they should have a meeting
of the people from the different localities, that
they should elect representatives, and make a
statement of grievances for the purpose of
being handed to His Excellency. They knew
that they had an election, and that certain bills
of rights were agreed to, and certain delegates
were appointed to lay them at the foot of the
Throne; but those formal statements had not
yet come in an official manner before the Government, who could not call for them,
but must
simply wait for them.
Mr. Mackenzie said the hon. gentleman had
promised the report of the so-called Commissioner, Mr. Smith, who had done many things,
and amongst them that of going round and
inducing the people to elect delegates to some
sort of Convention. Mr. Smith was not
instructed, he presumed, to do that. They had
been promised this report; but they had not yet
got it: and many of them were aware that other
persons were there from that Territory protesting that those two persons were not
representatives of the people of the North-West but
only of that part of them which was in a state
of rebellion against the constitutional authority of the country. They wished to have
Mr.
Smith's report. He did not wish to precipitate a
discussion without it, but it did seem that they
could not get it. The Government did not seem
willing to bring it down; and if they did not
obtain it very soon, they would be deprived of
the opportunity of a fair discussion on it.
Hon. Sir John A. Macdonald said the hon.
gentleman was fond of his "supposes," but
what object could the Government have but to
act right in that matter? Mr. Smith asked for
time to consider his report, and as it was not a
very long document, he was told to get it printed, and that had been done; and that
morning it
had been brought in complete. He had been
instructed by the Minister for the Provinces to
strike off thirteen copies for the Ministers, and
1083
it would come at once under their consideration.
The subject then dropped.
The House adjourned at 1:30 a.m.
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