The House met at 3 o'clock.
THE FISHERIES.
Hon. PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said:—I beg
leave to lay on the table copies of correspondence relative to the fisheries and,
in doing so,
I may express my satisfaction that the time has
at last arrived when it is the power of the government to vindicate themselves from
the misrepresentation to which their action on this important question has been subject
during the
past year. For many months the charge
has been circulated all over this Province
by a considerable portion of the press that
the Government had ignored the rights and in
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DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS
terests of the fishermen of this country. I can
only say that I think that the course pursued by
the Government at the last session of the Legislature—the great interest which they
evinced in
the protection of the fisheries, ought to have
been sufficient to show the fallacy of the charges
which have been brought against them. It will
be in the recollection ot the house that I moved
for a special committee to inquire into the
question of the fisheries. That committee was
composed of the Attorney General. and a large
number of leading men on both sides, and I had
the honor, as chairman, of bringing in its report, which asserted, in the clearest
and most
emphatic manner, the rights of this Province to
the fisheries, and recommended that every possible means should be taken for the purpose
ct
protecting them from the encroachments of the
American fishermen. The American Government had, by their own act, and without reference
to their own fishermen, deprived them of
the rights which for ten years they had enjoyed
in our waters. The Government of this Province, therefore, emphatically committed
themselves to the policy of excluding American fishermen at once from the waters belonging
to this
country. That report, submitted by myself,
was adopted unanimously by the Legislature,
and the Government immediately took action
upon the subject, and addressed a despatch to
the Governor General and the Lieutenant Governors of the other Provinces inviting
their cooperation—a cooperation which appeared to be
most essential in dealing with this question, inasmuch as the fishing grounds resorted
to by
the Americans do not exclusively belong to
Nova Scotia, but are also within the territorial
domain of Canada and New Brunswick. Our
object in addressing this despatch. with which
was enclosed the report of the committee of the
Legislature. was for the purpose of devising
with the other Provinces a system of protection
by which American fishermen might be excluded from the fishing grounds of British
North
America. In order that no time might be lost
in dealing with this question, the Government
proposed that a member ot the Canadian Cabinet should meet one of ourselves at Fredericton
during the last Session of the Legislature there,
for the purpose of taking such measures as
would effectually accomplish the object which
we had in view. I mention these tests to the
house to show how far we were from being indifferent to the fishing interests of this
country.
A perusal of the papers which I am about to
lay on the table will show that the Imperial
Government. at an early stage of this question
formed the opinion that if the American fishermen were suddenly excluded from the
privileges
which they had enjoyed for so long a time, difficulties of a very serious character
might arise
between the United States and Great Britain,
which would operate against the renewal of a
treaty. This view was presented in a very
strong manner, as will be seen by a Minute of
Council from their Government in reply, embodied in these papers. It is impossible,
I must
state, to bring the whole of this correspondence
here, because certain portions of it were ot a
confidential character that precluded theirbeing
presented to the house. twill, however, call
attention to a statement in the Canadian Minute
of Council which shows that the Imperial Government had applied to the Canadian Ministry
to allow American fishermen to fish in British
American waters for the past year:
" It now has become necessary to consider the further steps to be taken, and the committee
have given
their best consideration to the suggestion in Mr.
Cardwell's deapatch—that for the current year no interference with American fishermen should take place
—in view of the hope of a change of policy in the U.
States on the quest on of Reciprocal Trade."
The Imperial Government were led to believe,
from whatever source they got the information,
that the peremptory exclusion of American
fishermen from our waters would lead to such
unpleasantness between the two countries as
would prevent the accomplishment of a renewal
of reciprocal trade between British America
and the United States. This policy, it will be
seen, did not originate with the Canadians, but
was pressed upon them by the Imperial authorities, as is clearly shown by the clause
that I
have read. The Canadian Government went
on to show the great interest that British America had in these fisheries, and the
great importance of protecting them, and the inconvenience
that would arise from any step that would seem
an apparent concession to American fishermen,
or would raise a doubt as to the entire right of
British America to exclude the citizens of any
other country from resorting to their fishing
grounds. Yielding finally to the policy pressed
upon them, they proposed as a compromise that,
for one year only, a system of licensing American fishermen should be pursued. The
Government of Canada drew up this Minute of
Council, and sent it to the Imperial authorities,
as embodying their views, and to show how far
they were prepared to meet the wishes of the
latter in relation to this question. The answer
sent by the Government of Nova Scotia will
show that so far from their at once yielding to
the proposal thus made, they drew up a Minute
of Council expressing in the strongest terms
their great objection to any such policy being
pursued. They pointed out, as will be seen,
at considerable length, the serious objections
they had to a system of licensing American fishermen. The same despatch which they
had
sent to the Governor General and the Lieut.
Governors, was transmitted to her Majesty's
Secretary of State for the Colonies. We therefore placed the Imperial Government
in a position to learn the views of this Legislature, and
also the fact that we had called upon the other
colonies to join us in carrying Out these views.
The answer of the Governor General contained
the despatch of the Imperial Government on
this subject, and in transmitting it he said that
it was torwarded for the information of this Government, and that they would not reply
to our
previous proposal until they ascertained what
were our own views on the question as it was
then presented to us.
OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY.
75
Having given that despatch of the Governor
General and the Minute of the Canadian Government the fullest consideration, we felt
bound to adhere to the policy which we had
previously expressed ; and we drew up a strong
remonstrance to the proposal which the Canadian Cabinet, in deference to the wishes
of the
Imperial authorities, had agreed to. We addressed this remonstrance to the British
Gov.
ernment, and we urged by every argument we
could devise the adoption of our own policy. In
the meantime the House will perceive that
the Government of Canada had yielded the
point, and had agreed, as far as they were concerned, to adopt the system for a year.
We
were placed in a very difficult position, but,
nevertheless, we persevered in it until the
very last extremity. We stood out until
we received a despatch from her Majesty's
Government expressing the strongest dissatisfaction with the refusal on our part,
on
a question of Imperial import, to be guided
by their wishes, and even going further,
and intimating in pretty strong language that
if we continued to disregard their wishes we
would not be in a position to claim their assistance in the event of our fishing grounds
being
encroached upon. The Colonial Minister stated in a despatch which is among these papers,
that they urged the adoption of this system for
a single year, under the belief that such a concession on our part would lead to the
renewal
of reciprocal trade between the United States
and the British American Provinces. If we
had continued to resist the wishes of the Imperial Government we would therefore not
only have given the deepest offence, but have
laid ourselves open to a charge of having prevented the re-establishment of satisfactory
commercial relations with the United States.
It is to me a matter of intense pride that I am
able to stand here and vindicate the course
which the Government have pursued, and prove
to the Legislature that everything that was possible was done to carry out the scheme
of this
House, and the views of gentlemen on both
sides. It will be seen that that Government
only yielded to the wishes of the Imperial Government when expressed with a vigor
and terseness that are not usual in the despatches of the
Imperial authorities, and when it was urged that
the policy which we had adopted as the true one
would be detrimental to the best interests of
this country. It may be said that the Government of Canada yielded a much more ready
deference to the Imperial authorities than did
the Government of this Province. That may
be offered as one reason why it is not advisable
that Nova Scotia should unite her interests more
closely with those of Canada. I receive, however, an entirely different impression
from the
history of this question. In this instance the
Canadian authorities have given weight and
force to other more important and pressing interests, and have not exhibited that
deep anxiety in these fisheries which they must do when
they are immediately interested in them under
the scheme of union. When the Provinces are
united, then the Canadians will have the same
direct interest in the British American fisheries
that this Province has. Then you will have
brought to bear on Canada the same influences
that prevail with us ; but I go a step further,
and I call the attention of hon. members and
of the intelligent people of this country to the
fact that the government of Nova Scotia is here
proved to have been unable to oppose a policy
which was concurred in by Canada. That province, on account of her immense territorial
area, of her large population compared with
that of Nova Scotia, now possesses an influence
which overshadows that of all the other provinces. The moment, however, that union
is
consummated, the interests of Canada become
identical with those of Nova Scotia. Connected with her sister province, Nova Scotia
will
possess an amount of power and influence
that, now isolated, she can never expect to
have. We shall have the means, in the Parliament of a united British America, of making
the influence of this province felt in reference
to a question in which so large a proportion
of the people have the deepest interest.
This tax was simply imposed for a single year
for the purpose of establishing in the most unequivocal manner the right of British
Americans to exclude the citizens of any foreign
power from their fishing grounds. I may be
asked what shall be the course during the present year. I must frankly state to you
that the
same policy must probably be pursued, simply
for the reason that the delay which has taken
place in accomplishing the union of the colonies,
would prevent the question receiving the only
decisive consideration that it would have been
possible to give it. As far as I have been able
to learn by communication with the members of
the Governments of Canada and New Brunswick, the policy of the present year will be
to
double the charge upon every ton of shipping
which is allowed to fish in our waters—thus
again re establishing the entire right of British
America to exclude foreigners from its fishing
grounds, and to admit them on whatever terms
it may deem proper. The object of Canada, let
me say in conclusion, was to defer to the Imperial
Government until we were united and able to
devise such a policy as the United Parliament
may think proper to pursue. If the United
States will not agree to liberal commercial arrangements, then I entertain no doubt
that the
policy of the Government of British America
will be immediately to exclude the fishermen of
that country from any anticipation in our fishing grounds. When I had an opportunity
of
conferring with the Canadian Government at
Ottawa on this subject, it was decided that the
Canadians should only receive such portion of
the duty collected as was required to meet the
expenses of issuing the licenses. The amount
received by the authorities in this Province for
licenses was $9371.69. The amount taken by
the Canadian Government must have been very
much larger, and when ascertained, it will be
divided between the Governments of New
Brunswick and Nova Scotia, with the exception
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DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS
of the sum required to meet such incidental expenses as those just mentioned.
Mr. LOCKE was not prepared to say that the
Government could have acted differently in the
position in which they were placed. It was
exceedingly humiliating to think that the Government of the Province should have been
so
perfectly powerless. He had very strong opinions on the subject of the tonnage duty,
and re
gretted deeply that it should ever have been
agreed to. He could not help seeing in the action of Canada in reference to this question
conclusive evidence of the manner in which
this Province would be treated hereatter under
Confederation. It was very obvious that our
fisheries would no longer be protected, now that
we were to become a part of Canada. He
thought that the Government might have made
even stronger remonstrances than they actually
did, and not permitted the Canadians to place
them in such a position.
Mr. S. CAMPBELL looked upon this matter in
the same light that his hon friend viewed it.
He looked upon the action of the Canadian Government and the British Government combined
as the first step towards the entire deprivation of our people's rights in the fisheries
At
no time hereafter would we have the same
rights that we have hitherto enjoyed. Gentlemen looked at the question in a
couleur de rose
aspect when they stated that this Province
would be better situated under Confederation.
If the British Government, which we had always regarded as the mightiest power in
the
world, did not feel itself able to assert the rights
of the people of this country, what could we
expect from that feeble "Dominion" which was
about being formed? The impression made on
his mind by hearing the despatches read was
that the Canadians were at the bottom of this
arrangement.
Mr. TOBIN believed that if the Maritime Provinces had been represented in the Canadian
Government, this system of licensing American
vessels would never have been agreed to. When
Canada and New Brunswick admitted the system it was impossible for Nova Scotia to
take
any other course than she did. This was a forcible illustration of the detrimental
effects of the
system of isolation that now prevailed among
the Provinces of British America. He disapproved entirely of the license system, and
trusted it would not be continued. The American
Government had not made a single concession
to these Provinces. For instance, when an attempt was made in Congress to reduce the
duty
on coal, it was defeated. Such a fact was certainly surprizing in view of the large
interest
Americans had in the collieries of this country.
He was not prepared to grant a single license
whether for one or for five dollars. Mr. Tobin
then went on to refer to the manner in which
the fisheries were carried on in the Gulf by
American fishermen. Our most valuable
shore fisheries had been almost entirely destroyed by the system persued for some
years by the
Americans. He believed that under Confederation this question of the fisheries would
re
ceive the most ample consideration, and our interests would be better protected than
they
could be under existing circumstances.
Mr. COFFIN did not attribute any blame to
the government for the course they had taken,
for apparently they had done all in their power
to protect the fisheries. He looked with much
astonishment and regret upon the action of the
Imperial government, and he was much afraid
that our fisheries might now be considered virtually taken from us. He did not expect
that
when we were confederated with Canada,
our rights and interests would be any better
considered than they are now.
Mr. ROSS could not be persuaded that this
great Confederation, from which hon. Gentlemen opposite appeared to expect so much,
would
ever be able to protect our fisheries. He did
not believe that the large majority of Canadian
representatives who would control the Confederate Parliament would take the same view
of
the fishery question that our representatives
would. The large agricultural interests of Canada would be predominant and overwhelm
the
voice of Nova Scotia, which is so deeply interested in these fisheries. There were
certain
gentlemen even in this house who regarded the
interests of the fishermen as inferior to importance to other interests.
Mr. BLANCHARD said that he had lived for
very many years in the centre of the great herring and mackerel fishery. His opinion,
derived from observation and experience, was that
the protection of the fishermen of this Province
is utterly valueless. It should not be forgotten
that Canada, New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island possess ten miles of valuable
fishery ground for every one belonging to Nova
Scotia. Our mackerel fishery really extended
from Port Hood to Cheticamp; as respects that
between Scattarie and Cape North, it was comparatively valueless. No one, however,
would
be better pleased than himself if the question
of the fisheries could be used successfully to
bring back the Americans to reciprocity. He
thought the Government had done their duty in
remonstrating as they did against the adoption
of the license system. The history of the
whole question showed the necessity of Confederation. As at present situated, we could
not
influence the action of Canada and the other
Provinces, which had large territorial rights in
the fisheries of British America.
Mr. TOBIN said that it was the abuse of the
fisheries by the Americans that had so largely
injured some of the fishing grounds, which
years ago had been very valuable to our people.
For many years the mackerel fishery of this
country had declined, in consequence of the
system pursued by the Americans. St. Margaret's Bay, where fish had formerly been
so
plentiful, was a case in point; the fishermen of
that bay were now obliged to go to the Labrador and the North Shore to catch fish.
The
system of feeding the fish, pursued by the Americans to so large an extent, was among
the
causes that had tended to injure the fishery
ground close to our own shores.
OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY.
77
Mr. BLANCHARD said that if the hon member would come down to his county next summer, he would show
him more fish than the
Americans could catch. It was an exploded
idea that the Americans drew off the fish by
feeding them. He believed that our own vessels caught as much fish as the same number
of American vessels that name into our bays.
One sudden gale of wind, he knew, did more
damage to the fisheries, did more to drive them
off than any system pursued by the Americans.
Hon. PROV. SEC. said that no one could
presume to say that it was not of the most
vital consequence to the interests of the
Province that our fishing grounds should
be protected, and that we should exclude
from them the American fishermen, unless
we received from them such concessions as
would be equivalent to the privileges they
would obtain. He contended that the present position of the fisheries arose altogether
from the disunion of the Provinces. As
it was now, the voice of the Legislature
was unable to influence Provinces which
were not now bound to us by those social,
political and commercial ties that would
exist when British America was one Confederacy, animated by a common sympathy
and interest. When gentlemen who now
so forcibly expressed their views in reference to the fisheries were able to make
themselves heard in a Confederate Parliament, no doubt their voice would have the
effect it ought to have. The papers on the
table proved conclusively that the Canadian
Government was fully alive to the great value of these fishery grounds, and of the
indisputable right of British America to enjoy
them exclusively. So far as the policy of
Canada went, it was to modify the proposal
of the Imperial Government. The course
pursued by the Government of this Province,
he was glad to find, was heartily approved
by gentlemen opposite.
Mr. ROSS said that it was well known to
the members from Cape Breton that from
Cape North to Scattarie there was hardly a
creek or harbour Where valuable fisheries
did not exist. During the year 1855 American vessels got fares off the harbor of Sydney,
and indeed within it. He only called
attention to this fact for the purpose of correcting a misapprehension of the hon
member for Inverness.
The papers presented by the Provincial
Secretary were then referred to the Committee on the Fisheries.
THE LOCAL CONSTITUTION.
Hon. PROVINCIAL SECRETARY then asked
permission to introduce an Act to amend
Chapter 3 R. S., " of the duration of and representation in the General Assembly."
He
explained that in consequence of the great
change which was about being made in the
government of British America, a very large
portion of the duties which had hitherto devolved upon the Local Legislature of this
Province would be transferred to the Parliament of the "Dominion of Canada." Under
these circumstances it was necessary to remodel our local constitution, and accordingly
in the present act it was proposed to
diminish the number of representatives in
the House of Assembly. It was proposed
to give each county in the Province two
members. To Pictou and Halifax respectfully, however, there would be given an
additional member, in consequence of their
large population compared with other counties. Of course it would be at once apparent
that the bill did not provide an equal
representation according to population for
the several counties. The government of
which he was a member had in 1859 introduced a bill—which was now law—by
which the representation was placed on a
far more equable basis than it had ever been
before, but, nevertheless, some considerable
inequalities still remained. Such inequalties, however, existed in all countries,
but
nowhere less than in Nova Scotia. It did
not seem practicable to reduce the representation from two members to a single
one for the smallest counties. It was deemed most advisable to place every county
on
the same footing, with the exception of
those two counties, whose population was
so largely in excess of that of the others. As
respects the Legislative Council, it was proposed to ask the house to agree to a resolution
requesting the Crown to reduce the
number of that body to 18 or 19 members:
that is to say, one for every county, and
one additional for the metropolitan county,
if it should be deemed advisable. The
House would see that henceforth the electors of the Province would possess larger
electoral powers than ever before. They
would have to elect two members for the
Local Legislature, and one for the General
Parliament, except, of course, in Halifax
and Pictou, to which additional members
were given ; but in no case would the number of votes given at the poll be less than
three. He believed that the policy proposed would recommend itself to the intelligence
of the house and country.
Mr. S. CAMPBELL said that the introduction of the bill was tantamount to a declaration that Confederation
was finally passed
in Parliament. Under these circumstances
he thought it was the duty of every member of the house on both sides to give his
78
DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS
assistance to the furtherance of a bill having in view the perfection of the Local
Constitution of this country. lt was unnecessary to discuss the features of the measure
at this stage, but he would ask whether it
was intended to alter the duration of the
Local Legislature to five years—the duration of the Federal Parliament under the
Act of Union ?
Hon. PRO. SEC. replied that no such
change was proposed in the bill.
Mr. ANNAND stated that in the Confederacy there would be a variety of electoral
arrangements. In Canada there would be
district representation, whereas, in this province it would be all county representation.
Again, whilst the majority of the counties
would have three votes, others would have
four and five.
Hon. PRO. SEC. said that the present arrangement was as fair as could be devised
under existing circumstances. It would be
in the power of the new house, he added,
to make any changes they deemed advisable.
Mr. LOCKE thought that perhaps it would
be as well to do away with the Legislative
Council altogether, in pursuance of the
course adopted by Ontario.
Hon. PRO. SEC. said that the hon. member would have an opportunity of dealing
with the question when the resolution was
introduced. He need hardly say that the
Government believed it would be best for
the interest of the country to have two
houses.
Mr. KILLAM thought it questionable policy to reduce the house down to 38 members
at the present time. The matter ought to
be fully considered. He doubted the propriety of the present house at all touching
so important a question : it ought to be left
to the new legislature.
Hon. PRO. SEC. said it was certainly surprising to hear any one oppose a reduction
of the house, when it was well known that
a large portion of the duties it had hitherto
discharged would be transferred elsewhere.
He remembered reading, many years ago,
the debates of the house, and was struck
with the tactics pursued by the hon. member for Yarmouth in respect to railways in
this country. When he was unable to prevent their construction, he proposed a road
vote of an enormous amount, with the object of making the country bankrupt as rapidly
as possible, and unable to build railways or anything else. Following a simi
lar policy he would make Confederation as
expensive as possible, since he could not
prevent its consummation. He (Mr. Killam) had, obviously, concluded that his
whole efforts should be directed towards
substantiating the arguments of himself and
friends, that we would not have money
enough, under Confederation, to carry on
the Local Government.
The bill having been read a first time,
Hon. PRO. SEC. then laid on the table a
bill in reference to the departmental officers and their salaries. It was obvious
to
the house, he stated, that the same reasons
which would require a reduction in the Legislature would exist in respect to the public
departments. It was therefore proposed
to abolish the office of Financial Secretary,
and devolve his duties upon the Provincial
Secretary, whose salary would be reduced
to ÂŁ600 a year. The office of Deputy Secretary would also be abolished, but there
would be a chief clerk in the office with a
salary of $1200 a year. lt was also intended to abolish the office of Solicitor General,
whilst the salary of the Attorney General
would be reduced to ÂŁ400 a year. As the
larger portion of the duties now devolving
on the Board of Works would be transferred
to the General Government, it was proposed
to abolish that office. In order to provide
for the efficient discharge of the public business, it was intended to appoint a Treasurer,
with a salary of ÂŁ500, instead of a Receiver General, and who must have a seat
in the Legislature. To this officer will be
given a clerk with a salary of $1000 a year.
It was also proposed to have a Commissioner of Public Works and Mines, with a salary
of ÂŁ500 a year, as is now paid to the head
of the Mines Department, who will have a
Clerk of Works and a Clerk of Mines, each
at $1000 a year. In view of the great importance of this department, its head would
be required to have a seat in the Legislature. He had no doubt that the house and
country would accept the measure as an
evidence of the desire and intention of the
Government to make our local constitution
under Confederation economical, and at the
same time fully equal to all the duties
which would have to be performed under
it.
The bill having been read a first time the
house adjourned.
This individual participated in:
