288PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES
FRIDAY, April 21.
The adjourned debate on
the railway resolution was resumed.
Hon. ATTY.
GEN. said—I do not intend to
address the house at any very great length
upon this question, but I cannot allow the observations of the hon. leader of the
opposition
to pass unanswered. This is a
subject with
which every gentleman in
this house is so well
acquainted, that I think it is hardly necessary
to direct attention back for the last eleven
years in order to ascertain the policy of'
the
house on the subject of
railways. The idea of
building a railroad to Annapolis dates as far
back as 1854, when the country was led to believe that for a million of money they
were
going to have railway communication from
Halifax to the Gulf of St.Lawrence on the
one hand, and the waters of the Bay of Fundy
on the other. In fact, in
all
discussions upon
the subject, the people were
educated up to
the belief that for the
small amount I
have
named, the points referred to could be
reached.
The experience of a few years, however, soon
dissipated that idea; and although the
policy
has partially failed for want of
means, yet the
house remained pledged to carry on these important works so soon as the finances of
the
country would admit. It was, therefore, no
new policy that the government introduced
last year, but one that was initiated and approved of years ago. Such. then, being
the
case, it is not for us now to consider the correctness or incorrectness of the idea.
The
country at that time was divided upon the
question of building railways. Some
thought
it inadvisable to embark in the enterprise at
all; some were in favor of
their being built by
government; whilst others—and they
formed a
large section of this house and
of the country
—were in favor of their
construction by private
companies under legislative subventions.
Those who were opposed altogether to railroads formed but a small class in the country,
and I am happy to find that one of the representatives of that section has at length
given
in his adhesion to the system, and approves of
their construction under the policy first inaugurated. As to whether that is
the best system or not it is unnecessary to advert in the
present discussion; that question was settled
last year, and nothing has since occurred to
alter the position of affairs. The only point,
then, that now arises for consideration is the
question as to whether the finances of the province are in a condition to warrant
the construction of these works in the modified form
proposed by the resolution now
before the
house.
There are many considerations to be thought
of in connection with this subject, but
the paramount one is to keep up the
credit of the
country and to maintain mviolate the
good
faith of the province. If we can do this, then
I think we are warranted in going on with
these works. In the consideration of this question I intend principally to refer
to the opposition given to it by the hon.
member for South
Colchester (Mr. Archibald) and to the course
he has thought proper to pursue; and I cannot
avoid saying that the position taken by
that
hon. gentleman, in regard to one or two other
important subjects to which he had been previously committed, has rather astonished
me.
In regard to the School Bill, for instance, no
one was more thoroughly committed to that
measure by his action
last
session than the
hon. gentleman; in fact, he
went even further
than the views of the government on the subuject; while this year he has
adopted a policy
totally inconsistent with the
course he then
pursued. I think that hon. gentleman ought
to have more regard for the position he occuies as leader of the opposition than to
come
here, as he did yesterday, and, in
relation to
this question, admit that he
had made such
gross mistakes in his
calculations; and my
hon. friend the Financial Secretary was quite
justified in the remark that it was highly culpable in one occupying his position
to found
arguments upon a subject to which he confessed he had not given that consideration
which
its importance demanded. He has given evidence upon other occasions, of
his power to
sift and analyze financial statements; and
there is no doubt that, if he
had had the inclination, he was quite competent to ascertain,
what amount the government had in hand at
PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 289
the end of last year; In charging the government with falsifying the public accounts,
he
evidently tried very hard to manufacture a
mountain out of a molehill. He knew very
well, or ought to have known, that in the sum
represented as being in the treasury at the end
of the year there was not included the amount
due by parties holding province notes, and
those indebted to the savings' bank, amounting
to over $80,000. There was no mystery about
the matter. lf he had given proper attention
to the subject, he would have seen that the
statements he made were grossley inaccurate,
and with the evidence before him, it is perfectly inexplicable to me how he could
have done
so.
I have taken a few notes of his speech, and
shall endeavour to point out the inaccuracies
with which it abounds. In the first place he
assumed that it would be necessary to provide
for one-half of the whole cost of the Pictou
railroad this year. Now we have provided
$30,000 for interest this year, which is about
one-third of the interest of the whole sum required, while it is calculated that not
more
than a fourth will be wanted, and therefore
that little over a fourth of the whole cost will
be required this year. Then, again, the leader
of the Opposition has undertaken to state that
the St. Peter's Canal will cost at least $200,000.
I am at a loss to know where he got the data
for his calculations, or whether he is more
qualified to judge than those who were employed for that purpose; but all I can say
is that he
differs widely from the engineer who was employed to survey it, and whose report is
upon
the table, showing the estimated cost to be at
the farthest $170,000 that the specification
requiring only $130,000 is the one adopted.
The hon. gentleman also referred to other
public works, and put down the interest on the
Pictou road at $150,000, the Moncton road at
$144,000, and strange to say, although he had
the same reasons for exaggeration as regards
the Annapolis railroad, he had put the interest
for that line down at $5,000 less that it really
would be accordong to the proposals on the
table. In order then to raise the amount he
puts down the interest on the St. Peter's Canal,
at $12,000. He has, therefore, made a mistake
in his calculations of $30,000 a year in the interest on the Pictou road, and $22,000
on the
Moncton road.
Now, however much we may be inclined to
give the hon. gentlemen credit for skill as a
financier in the case of the St. Peter's Canal,
he can hardly be imagined to know more than
the Engineer who bored every rod, and made his calculations from actual experiments.
We are driven, therefore, to the conclusion that the
hon. gentleman founded a great many of his
assertions upon mere assumption, without the slightest particle of proof.
The hon. gentleman, amongst other things,
alluded to the Shubenacadie Canal, and seems to have based his calculations as to
the cost of St. Peter's upon the expenditure incurred upon that work. Now, we all
know the history of that unfortunate canal, and the causes of its failure, but I am
at a loss to perceive how any comparisons can be instituted between a work of such
magnitude as that, and a canal of half a mile long. And so with the Welland Canal.
Is it well known that the reason why that cost so much was because it was turned into
a ship canal, instead of a boat canal, as at first intended.
The hon. leader of the opposition made another singular statement to which I shall
allude for a moment. He said that the issue of debentures for the construction of
the road to Moncton would depreciate the value of those already issued. How this can
be I am at a loss to imagine. We all know that the debentures that are already sold
have the first claim upon the revenues of the Province and take precedence over all
others. How, then, can they be affected by those subsequently issued? He knows very
well that a second mortgage does not take priority over the first.
The hon. gentleman said that in New Brunswick western extension received the most
favor, and that no provision would be made to
build their line to the borders. I tell him that
the line to the borders has been secured, and
that an undertaking has been entered into between the Government of New Brunswick
and
contractors to build their portion of the line, so
soon as Nova Scotia makes arrangements to
connect with it. I take it for granted the incoming Government will not repudiate
the
agreement of their predecessors.
The hon. gentlemen charged the Government with withholding Mr. Livesey's offer
made in November, because they had an election to run in the West. I tell him that
when
the Government got the House to adopt this
policy last year they- intended to carry it out
in good faith. They felt it their duty then,
as they feel it now, to get the road to Annapolis built upon the best terms they could.
They have never failed to do their duty to the West, whenever the opportunity offered,
and it is with that view that the present resolutions have been introduced.
The hon. member for Colchester drew a fearful picture of the ruin that was going to
overwhelm the country. He said that the price of goods was going to fall to such
an extent as to reduce the revenue and diminish our resources. Now, sir, I do not
agree with him at all. I do not think that the fall in the price of cottons is going
to have so much effect upon the revenue. For several years past the price of this
article has been so great, that the majority of the people were beginning to dispense
with its use, and to substitute other articles for it, so that the consumption of
cotton goods has not been so great of late years as formerly. I hold, therefore, that
if the price of cotton does fall, that from the increased quantity that will be imported,
the amount of duties, instead of decreasing, will increase for the first year or two.
The question to be considered, however, is not so much as to the revenue of this year
as to how these considerations would affect us in two years' time when this liability
will accrue. It is our duty, then, to take a more expansive view of the subject, and
endeavor, as far as possible, to ascertain what position we would be in, in a few
years' time. If we contrast our present position with that of a few years back we
have every reason to be encouraged - our revenues have trebled since the railway system
has been commenced, and there is every reason to believe that with increased facilities
in that respect the will continue to increase in a large ratio.
A few years ago gold was discovered in this Province, and, as was the case in most
countries, it proved a bad speculation to most of those who rashly entered into it.
But of late the position of affairs has changed; a number
290 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES
of capitalists have come into the country, and
by the application of science, and skill, and
means, very (different results have been produced. Then, again, look at our coal mining
interests, and the large amount of capital recently brought into the country to develop
this important branch of industry. Everything in
the way of capital brought into a country helps
the agricultural and laboring classes and increases the general prosperity, and consequently
increases the revenue.
But it is said that a commercial crisis is going to take place in the United States,
and that
the business of this country is in an unsettled
state. If a crisis does arrive (and I see no reason to anticipate it,) we, at all
events will be
in a better position to meet it than a country
like the United States, overhead and ears in
debt. But I see no necessity for indulging in
such a gloomy view of affairs. Looking at the
increasing prosperity of the country, arising
from the causes to which I have referred, I
think there can be no doubt that we can afford
to provide $313,000 for railway interest, without
interfering with the ordinary services of the
country. The hon. member for Colchester
seemed to doubt whether the expenditure of
money for railway purposes was of any benefit
to a country.
Hon. ATTY. GEN—I do not wish to misrepresent the hon. gentleman, but he certainly said
it was not calculated to increase the revenue.
I ask him whether he was serious? Does he
not know that the increased labor which the
construction of these public works brings into a
country necessitates the consumption of a larger quantity of articles upon which duty
is levied—that in proportion to the number of the
non-producing class will be the increased censumption of goods, and consequent increase
of
revenue. I hold, then, that the various enterprises now going on in this country are
going
largely to increase the importation of dutiable
goods. Smuggling from the United States will
be rendered impossible in consequence of the
high rate of duties which will be kept upon
goods in that country, and the trade will be
largely with Europe for years to come, and the
chances of smuggling in that proportion diminished. I, therefore, come to the conclusion
that there is not the slightest grounds for the
danger apprehended by the hon. leader of the
Opposition as to the falling off of the revenue.
He endeavored to show that we could not exect any beneficial effect upon our revenues
from the construction of railroads, because during the years that the present lines
were in
course of construction no sensible increase was
produced. But that is not a fair comparison. From 1855 to 1858 but a small section
of the
road was open—only about 9 miles—and it
could not be expected that any advantages
would be felt until the system had had a fair
trial, and the people had begun to appreciate
the convenience and benefits of railroad communication; still I contend that the expenditure
of the money itself had a beneficial effect
upon the revenues of these years.
The hon. leader of the Opposition endeavored to give as unfavorable an account as
he possibly could of the present condition of our railroads, and tried to make us
believe that they
were nearly worn out. It is true that some
portions of the road have worn, but they have
been renewed, and are as good as new, and,
with some trifling exceptions, it is in as good
a condition as it ever was. And I have good,
authority for saying that it is likely to last for
eight years more with but little expense beyond
a little ordinary wear and tear. The most of
expense incurred for the last few years has
been for fencing and renewing sleepers—the
rails and chairs are as good as ever, and will
last for years longer, and the rolling stock has
been completely renovated. I think, then, that
the facts will not bear out the hon. gentleman
in the gloomy picture he has drawn.
The next thing he endeavored to do was to
show that the revenue for this year would probably fall short of that of last year
by 200,000
dollars. I ask him upon what foundation he
rests his statement? If that be true, then the
estimate laid upon the table by the Financial
Secretary is erroneous, and ought not to have
been adopted by the house. He begun by
stating that the December quarter of 1864 was
short by 63,000 dollars of the corresponding
quarter of 1863, and he stated that that was
the largest quarter of the year.
I find upon referring to the returns that the
amount received in that quarter of 1863 was
$303,123 and in 1864 $413,164. I do not know
how he undertakes to make his calculations, if
not by comparing one quarter with another. If
he takes one month of one year and compares
it with that of another, that is not the fair way
of treating the subject, as the arrival of the
fall or spring stocks maybe thrown into one
month or another, or even into a different
quarter by the accident of a few days in the
date of arrival. Now sir I shall endeavour to
shew that instead of their being any probability of a. falling off in 1865 there is
every prospect of an increase. The December quarter
which belongs to this year has produced $413,- 164, and the March quarter $129,820
making
for the first half of 1865 $542,936. From
that date we may fairly assume that
the July and September quarters will not
fall short sufficient to absorb the large surplus
for the two past quarters. What ground then
I ask has the hon. gentleman for assuming
that there will be a decrease of $200,000, when
the two first quarters show an increase of $123,793, and more than this I have the
best reason
for knowing that the month of April this year
will show a surplus of $20,000 over that of last.
Now then let anyone compare the statement
of both of us, and see where the facts would
place the decision . I shall now call the attention of the house for a moment to a
financial
statement I hold in my hand, and which I
think will convince any one that we are in a
good condition to undertake the construction
of these works. It is well known that the road
grant this year is unusually large-$264,000 while the largest regular appropriation
ever before made for that service was $160,000. We
can then take this $104,000 of extra grant, and
still appropriate the largest sum ever given in
any previous year towards the ordinary road
and bridge servies of the country. We can
give the usual grant for navigation securities
—we can provide for the St. Peters Canal, and
the extension of the Lunatic Asylum, as well
as all the other public services, including the
largely increased School grant, and we can
provide for the railways also.
| Taking then the Extra Road Grant this year- |
$140,000 |
| Add Extra Grant this year for Navigation
Securities................................................................. |
39,000 |
PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 291
| Add Interest of Pictou Railway provided
for in the Estimate........................................... |
80,000 |
| Add for increase of Revenue for the present
Lines................................................................... |
150,000 |
| Add increase of Casual Revenue…............. |
50,000 |
| " increase of General Revenue three year hence $60,000, average annual increase... |
180,000 |
| And we have a total of |
$543,000 |
Which we may reasonably calculate to have
of increase of means to meet the liabilities for
the Pictou Branch and the two lines now under consideration. The hon. leader of
the opposition said that the net revenue of the railways for 1863 was $22,000, and
that of 1864 only
$1,000 more and he argued from that that we
could not expect a larger increase. His statement only included three quarters of
the past
year and I have reason to know that the nett
revenue will come up to $35,000 this year instead of $28,000 as stated by him. I have
also
abundant evidence to prove that the sum of
$15,000 was expended in repairs last year
which might more properly have been done
this year, so that the cost of maintenance this
year will be lessened bythat amount. Then
again when we consider the increased accommodation that will be afforded to the travelling
public by the construction of these two additional lines, and the increased traffic
that
will result, I think we have every reason to
anticipate in three years hence a revenue of
$150,000 as against the interest we will be then
first called upon to pay. Then as regards the
casual revenue, I think in view of the extensive mining operations in Cape Breton
and
elsewhere, I am largely within bounds in putting down an increase of $50,000 and double
that sum would he nearer the true estimate.
Now, sir, I have endeavoured to give the reason
why I anticipate an increaseof the revenue,
and to show that the gloomy forebodings of the
hon. leader of the opposition are totally unfounded. But I shall refer him to the
financial statement of his own finance minister (Mr.
Annand) and show that they are directly at
issue. [Mr. H. here read in corroboration of
his statement.]
I shall also read an extract from the speech
of that same hon. gentleman upon a different
subject, (Confederation,) and although I may
not approve of the object for which the calculations were used, it matters not if
the figures
are correct. Mr. Annand, in his speech at
Temperance Hall, went into calculations to
prove that we were able to build all the Railways in question without any additional
taxation. After referring to statements of Mr.
Jones, proving the same position, he says:
The present total Provincial expenditure under
the estimate of 1864, including interest,
| Amounts to............................................................. |
$1,222,355 |
| Supplementary Estimate.............................................. |
5,811 |
| Pictou Railway........................................................... |
120,000 |
| Subsidy to Annapolis Railway, 60 miles, £6000 per mile, at 4 per cent., 20 years.............. |
86,800 |
| Subsidy to Railway from Truro to N.B. Frontier, 70 miles, £10,000 per mile at 4 per
cent. 20 years............................................................ |
112,000 |
|
$1,546,566 |
| Add for Militia....................................................... |
78,000 |
|
$1,624,000 |
| Revenue for 1854, per Estimate........................................ |
$180,000 |
|
| Gain on Gold fields in 1864....... |
15,000 |
|
| " Casual Revenue, 1864.......... |
10,000 |
|
| " Custom and Excise, 1864, |
150,000 |
|
| $1,355,000 |
1,355,000 |
|
|
Deficiency.......... |
$269,566 |
It will be perceived, then, that under our present
tariff which is by far the lowest in America, at the
end of the present year the revenue would be sufficient to pay the interest on the
Pictou the Annapolis
and the lntercolonial railway provide for every public service as liberally as in
1864 , leaving a deficiency
of only $269,566 to be provided for—[cheers]. This
too, is assuming that these railways were all now constructed and the entire interest on the outlay payable from the treasury. We have
now in hand a sum
of money sufficient to pay the entire interest on the
cost, of the Pictou Railway, as well as $55,000 additional, and this derived from
the increase of revenue
in 1864 alone—[cheers.] But as these railways cannot
possibly be all constructed in less than three years
from this date, let us see how we would stand at that
period. I find upon examination of the amount of
revenue collected in an average of five years, from
1858 to 1863, that the mean increase yearly on the total revenue was $166,369! and that on the 10 per cent
advalorem duties alone the average increase was during those five years $68,013—[cheers.]
Now, sir, I
might take the average of the total revenue, commencing on the 1st of January, 1865,
for the next three
years, at $166,369 a year; but as our revenue may fluctuate, I take the increase at
the very moderate average of" $60,000, and find that in three years the increase would
amount to $180,000; add increased earnings of present railways, $75,000, and we have
$255,000 to meet a deficiency of $269,566; and this result,
this startling and astonishing result, may be attained,
let it be recollected and understood, without the imposition of one farthing additional
taxation—[loud
and protracted cheering.]
Now, sir, l have given my own figures as to
the amount of liability we are going to assume
under the resolutions before the house; and I
have given the calculations of the late Fin.
Sec'y (Mr. Annand,) who puts the gross amount
as the interest of the lines from Truro to Pictou,
and New Brunswick and the line to Annapolis down at $313,000 a your, and I have endeavoured
to show, by a fair estimate of our probable increased revenue in three years hence,
amounting to $543,000, that that liability is within the compass of our resources,
and will not
infringe unnecessarily upon any ordinary
public service.
This no doubt is an important question and
it is the duty of every one to give it an attentive consideration. I have endeavoured
to
deal with it to the best of my judgment, and if I
have made any mistakes in my calculations I
am ready to correct them if any one can detect
them. I think that this question ought not to
be postponed any longer; it is of the utmost
importance to this country that we should connect our Railway system with that of
New
Brunswick, and thus be brought into connection with the United States and Canada.
By
this route we could go to Montreal as quickly
as by the Intercolonial Railway, the only difference being that in the one case,
we would
travel wholly through our own territory; with
this connection complete the great object
would be attained of making Halifax the nearest stopping place for all steamers from
Europe.
Passengers for Canada and the United States,
after a long sea voyage would prefer taking rail
for their various destinations, rather than embark again by steamer. Besides all
this we
must consider the immense amount of traffic
which would be brought from Prince Edward
Island; Cape Breton, and the Eastern Counties;
and also from Cumberland and the neigbouring Province. Then again the Annapolis road
will be the means of diverting trade which
now finds its outlet at St. John, and will open
up all the rich agricultural counties between
Windsor and Annapolis. The hon. gentleman
concluded by alluding to the advantages de
292 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES
rived from railway extension, as a means of
bringing the people into closer communication
with, each other, and of liberalizing their minds
by intercourse with the people of other countries.
Mr. LONGLEY said that at that hour of the
evening, and at that late period of the session,
he supposed gentlemen would prefer going to
their homes rather than listen to anything he
might have to say; but he felt that he would
not be doing justice to his own feelings and to
the position he occupied, if he failed to make a
few observations upon the subject under discussion. The desirability of extending
railway
communication east and west had always been
admitted, and it was only a question of time as
to when it should be undertaken. He had
turned his attention to the subject, and he was
prepared to show that the country was in a
better position at present to undertake railway
extension to both the New Brunswick border
and Annapolis, than she was in 1855, when the
railway system was inaugurated. At that
time the
entire revenue did not exceed £130,000,
while last year it was £330,000. If any gentleman would take the trouble to make the
calculation, he would see that we are in a better position to pay the interest upon
the cost of the
whole undertaking contemplated by the resolution before the house. than we were to
pay
£60,000 a year in 1855. He had the figures before him, the accuracy of which could
not be
disputed, and to which he would shortly refer.
He estimated the revenue in 1855 to have been
£130,000, and the amount of railway debt then
incurred at £60,000 a year. Now it did not require much argument to prove that we
could
better afford to pay £150,000 with our present
revenue, than £60,000 with the revenue of 1855.
What would be the amount of our liability
after the whole works had been constructed?
He put down the cost of the Pictou extension
at £30,000 a year; the extension to the borders
of New Brunswick as £30,000 more; the road
to Annapolis at £22,000—£142,000 a year in all,
including £60,000 which we now pay, or £11,000
a year less in proportion as compared by the
burden borne by the revenue of 1855.
There were various other considerations that
should not be lost sight of in the discussion of
this question. There were various incidental
advantages which the country derived from
the construction of railroads which could not
be estimated in figures—such as the stimulus
given to trade, an the development of our resources induced by the increased facilities
those
works afforded. But without referring more
particularly to these at present, he would endeavor to show how the amount of annual
interest the Province would have to pay was going to be gradually reduced by the earnings
of
the road.
He estimated the net revenue of the road
this year at, $12,000, that deducted from the
whole liability would leave £130,000 annual interest to be paid. When the Pictou line
was
opened, of course the paying qualities of the
road between Truro and Halifax would be proportionately increased, and he thought
that he
would be safe in putting that down at 2 per
cent. in addition to present receipts, or £12,000
more, reducing interest to £118,000. Then he
assumed that the tenth section of: the Pictou
line -between Fisher's Grant and the coal
fields would not be in operation a single year
without Paying working expenses and 6 per
cent interest besides; That reduces the entire
amount of interest to £112,000 a year. He calculated that when the entire lines were
completed, at the expiration of five years, they would
pay at least three per cent. over and above
working expenses. These calculations have
reference to construction of the whole by Government. It must not be forgotten that
in
proportion as the lines were extended so would
the traffic increase with very little additional
cost. The annual interest will then be reduced
in five years after the whole railway system
has been completed to £71,000, or only about
£10,000 a year more than the present liability.
The hon. member for Halifax alluded to the
indirect advantages which a country derives
from railroads. He (Mr. L.) had taken pains
to make some calculations on that point, and
he thought that they would be borne out by the
facts.
The net receipts from the railroads last year
amounted to nearly £9,000. He would pause
for a moment, to contrast the position of railway matters in New Brunswick with these
pf
this country. That Province, with a' population much less than ours, owes about a
million
of dollars more than we do; and then it should
not be forgotten that her tariff is 15 1/2 per cent,
while ours is only 10—being a difference of
more than 50 per cent. The receipts from their
road, he regretted to say, had fallen off this
year; while our passenger traffic had increased
13,000, with corresponding receipts in traffic
department; and there was every reason to
anticipate a larger revenue this year, from the
increased mining operations in Cape Breton
and other parts of the Province. He would
turn for a moment to some calculations he had
made, based upon the working of the road in
1863, and he thought that they would hear the
strictest scrutiny. He found in that year that
110,137 persons had been carried over the road,
and most of these from extreme points, so that
he would be safe in putting down the time and
cost of travel saved to these persons at a dollar a head;
| That would amount to |
$110,137 |
|
There was carried over the road 56,471 tons of freight, saving per ton, $2, |
112,942 |
| 9,640 horses, at a saving of $1 each, |
9,640 |
| 5,462 head of horned cattle, at a saving
of $1.50 each, |
8,193 |
| 19,970 sheep and lambs, at a saving of
20 cents each, |
3,994 |
| 2,309 calves and pigs, at a saving of
30 cents each. |
0,692 |
|
$245,598 |
| Gain by rendering valuable what would,
be otherwise useless, |
40,000 |
|
£71,399, or $285,598 |
| Making the indirect gain of £10,000
more than the interest now paid. |
|
In making these statements he knew that he
should be met by his opponents with the taunt
that all this was very different from the views
and opinions he formerly held. He was prepared to admit that his views on this sub
ect
had undergone some change. He thought then
that it was a serious undertaking to pledge the
revenues of the Province to the extent of £60,000 a year; but now, as we had become
involved in these great public works, it was to the
interests of the people to go on steadily increasing them east and west. until the
system
had become perfected and placed in a position
PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES293
to be remunerative. That must be done, either
by the Government or by the aid of capitalists
from abroad.
It seemed to him now as it did last winter,
that if we could secure the extension of the
road to Annapolis by an annual subvention of
but little more than £20,000, it would be to the
interest of the Province to do so. He thought
that the west was fairly entitled to this consideration. The members for that section
of the
Province had always aided the Eastern members in their public works, and he had no
hesitation in saying that the vote given by them
last session for the Pictou railroad had not received that consideration it deserved.
He
thought that the true policy had been adopted,
then of securing the trade of Prince Edward
Island and the eastern part of the Province.
For the same reasons as to means of making
the roads more remunerative, he justified the
present extension, and he thought he had
shewn by figures that challenged investigation, that it was clearly within our means
to go
on with these works. The hon. gentleman
then alluded to the great saving in the way of
time and freight which this road would afford
to the farmers or the west. Now, by the pre"sent road it cost $1,20 a hundred weight
for
truckage from Windsor to Annapolis, whereas
it could be taken by rail for 25c., thus saving
$19 a ton, and there was also time saved, as he
had shewn, so that in every shape the question
was viewed, whether as regards the direct or
indirect advantages, it must be looked upon as
a great boon to the country. He had made a
few calculations of the position of railway affairs in other countries. He found
that the
State of Massachusetts, with a. population of
about 1 ,400 ,000, had about the same number of
miles of railway, or about a mile to every 1000
of population, and their railway debt is about
$55 per head, while ours, estimating our population at 250,000, does not exceed $18
per head,
or about one-third as much in proportion as
Massachusetts.
I have made a few estimates of the probable
cost and advantages of the Annapolis railway:
| Cost of railway to Annapolis, 30 miles, at £6000
per mile........................................................ |
£480,000 |
| Interest at 4 per cent ............ |
19,200 |
| Cost of bridging the Avon £40 ,000-
interest at 5 per cent ......... |
2,000 |
|
£21,000 |
Probable returns:
| Population of Kings, Annapolis, Digby and
Yarmouth say ........................................... |
70,000 |
| Assume that one-half the population of these
counties travel over the road once a year,
and the gain to each $2 ...................... |
£17,500 |
| Assume 12,000 tons of freight annually, at a
gain of $2 per ton .................................... |
6,000 |
|
£23,500 |
Here we have more than the annual cost of
interest at once; but these are far from being all the advantages that will result.
Let us enquire the present cost of getting to Halifax, say from the centre of Annapolis,
and as the distance is extended the gain is increased:
| Fare by coach to Windsor, say.................................... |
$5,00 |
| By rail................................................................................... |
1.35 |
| Time consumed 4 days a $1 per day........................ .. |
4 00 |
| Expenses while absent, $1.............................................. |
4.00 |
|
$14. 35 |
With the railway to Annapolis completed,
how would it stand?
| Fare per rail, say.. ...................................... |
$3.00 |
| Two days consumed, a $l ..... .................... |
2.00 |
| Expenses per day, $1 .. .… . .. ................... |
2 00 |
|
$7 000 |
Gain to each person passing over the line $7.35
The above are given as approximate calculations and results, but they cannot be regarded
as extravagant.
The hon. gentleman concluded by saying
that he would not weary the House by any
further remarks at that late period of the session. He was convinced that in proposing
this
extension, the Government were acting for the
best interests of the country and in accordance
with sound policy, and he should vote for the
resolution before the House.
Mr. MACDONNELL said that he felt called
upon to make a few observations after the remarks that had fallen from the member
for
Annapolis, who had just addressed the house.
That hon. gentleman had called upon the members for the Eastern part of the Province
to
assist him in carrying this scheme, on the
grounds that the Western members had aided
in passing the Pictou railroad bill. He (Mr.
McD.) could not agree to the question being
put on that plea. He had always, upon every
occasion when he had expressed an opinion,
denied that the East had derived any more advantage from the Pictou railroad than
the
West. When the distance of the Counties of
Cape Breton from the present termini of the
railroads was considered, it would be seen that
they derived no more direct benefit than the
Western Counties. He was sorry, then, to find
this cry of last session reiterated— that the
East alone was going to be benefitted by the
Pictou railroad. It could have no other effect
than to produce sectional jealousies, which in a
question of this kind should be kept out of
sight. If this policy of railway extension was
sound, it should stand upon its own merits,
and be justified upon provincial grounds, and
not as being of advantage, to any particular
locality. As regards the resolution upon the
table, he would say that if it went no further
than to authorize the construction of the line
to the borders of New Brunswick, he should
have supported it, because he believed that
that extension would be of great benefit to the
whole Province; but he could not see what advantage would flow from the Annapolis
line.
It could not be said that it was for the purpose
of obtaining the trade of New Brunswick, because that would be accomplished by the
construction of the Trunk line, and the one would
only interfere with the other. He should be
compelled, then, h to vote against the resolution
in its present shape. After a deliberate revision of the financial condition of the
country,
he had arrived at the conclusion, that it would
be unwise to undertake the construction of
both lines at the present time. It was true
that a resolution of a somewhat similar character had received his support last year;
but
in voting for it then, he had been actuated
principally by a desire to secure the construction of the line to the borders, and
with no
idea that the Annapolis road would become a
reality. He was rather surprised to hear some
of the arguments used by the member for Annapolis, He commenced by comparing the state
of our finances now with their position in
294
PARLAMENTARY DEBATES.
1855, and gave the railroads the credit for all
the improvements; but he forgot that the
ad
valorem duties then were only five per cent and
now they are ten. And then, again, he calculated that the Annapolis road would pay
three
per cent.; but he also forgot that'it would be in
the hands of a company, and that they would
receive the benefit, if any. He would not detain the house at any greater length,
but he
felt that from the course he had previously
taken he could not give a silent vote.
Mr. CHURCHILL said that he would have
been better pleased if this resolution of the
Government had gone further, and authorized
these two branches to be immediately put
under contract. It was quite time that the
iron road should traverse the fertile vales of
Kings and Hauts; and he could not see how
any financial considerations should deter the
Government from at once prosecuting this
work to a conclusion. The country was in
want of increased accommodation in the way
of paper currency, and he did not see why a
few hundred thousand pounds more of paper
could not be easily floated. It would accommodate the public, and could be floated
without any detriment to the public credit. The
hon. gentleman alluded to his recent visit to
the United States, and the advantages he had
witnessed there from railway extension. He
trusted that the resolutions now on the table
would receive the unanimous approval of
gentlemen on both sides; and the Government
would be prepared to presecute the work with
energy and vigor.
Mr. C.J. CAMPBELL said that be admired the
consistency of the Atty; Genl., although he
'could not commend his advocacy of the proposed policy. He found that the present
railway
yielded about half per cent on their cost, leaving the province to bear the remaining
five and
a half per cent. He contended that the increase of our taxation was injurious to the
best
interests of the country, and that the improvement of the localities through which
the existing lines ran was not so great as had been represented. He read from a speech
delivered
last session by Mr. Churchill, (in which that
gentleman said that our railways were as a
millstone about our neck), as a contrast to the
speech delivered last evening. He concurred
in these sentiments; he believed that the extension would benefit only Halifax, and
could
not advance the interests of Cape Breton. He
denounced the policy of exacting so large an
an amount of royalty from our'mines, and said
that the sum received from that source should
not be confidently reckoned on.
Mr. LOCKE said that they had arrived at
that period of the session when short speeches
were necessary and he should not therefore detain the house more than a few moments.
From the time of the first inception of the railway system in 1851 up to last session,
he had
always advocated the construction of those
public works. At that time he was obliged to
vote against the extension to Pictou because
he thought that it would interfere with the
larger scheme of an intercolonial railroad, and
that both of them could not be undertaken at
the same time." The same reason would compel him now to vote against the present resolution,
because he did not believe that the finances ofthe country would admit of extension
east and west at the same time. He believed that if both these lines are undertaken
it will involve an annual liability of $600,000
and he contended that the Province was not in
a position to bear that. It was beginningto be
admitted now that the estimate, he had made
last year of the cost of the Pictou line, which
he had put down at between £600,000 and
£700.000 would not be far out of the way. He
should oppose this proposition to engage in
any new undertaking until the Pictou road
was completed, because he thought it would
not be done without breaking faith with either
the east or the west. He disapproved of accepting the offer of Mr. Livesey, because
we
would bein the position of having; placed one
portion of our lines under the contract of a
company while the rest would be under the
management of the government.
He doubted very much the correctness of the
anticipations of the hon. Fin. Sec. as to the increase of the revenue. Every one who
knew
any thing about trade, knew that this quarter
exhibited the largest returns, and it afforded no
criterion for the rest of the year. He would
find that the importations next quarter would
fall ten per cent. short of this; and there would
be a large decrease in the amount collected for
ad valorem duties. He believed that if the
Province was able to construct these roads
under the scheme proposed, it would be only
under great difficulties, and not without seriously embarrassing the resources for
a long
time to come; He did not think that the Government should force this measure through
at
that time, but should agree to the proposition
to wait for a twelvemonth, until the Pictou
road was finished, and they would be able to
see how the revenue stood. He concluded by
expressing his hope that the Government
would not press the measure, when it was
manifestly against the wishes of many gentlemen in the house, some of whom had always
been the strongest supporters of railway extension.
Mr. CHURCHILL, in alluding to the remarks
made by the member for Victoria, in which he
had quoted a speech made by him on a previous occasion, complained that he omitted
the
latter portion of it, which explained his meaning. When he said that the railroad
debt was
like a millstone round our necks, he meant
that it was like any other debt, an encumbrance to us. But he did not mean that. that
was any reason why we should not engage in
the construction of these works. He had always been an advocate of progress, and any
one acquainted with his past history knew
that he had always endeavored to do his utmost to develope the resources of his native
Province.
Mr. STEWART CAMPBELL said that he felt
a reluctance at that late period of the session
to trouble the House with remarks upon any
question, but in a matter of such importance
as this he could not content himself with giving a silent vote. At an early period
of his
legislative career he had committed himself to
the policy of railway construction by government, and he was happy to say that that
policy had resulted beneficially to the country
He observed with pleasure that the example
set by this small colony was about to be followed by the parent state, and that in
that
country the question was now being considered as to whether it would not be advisable
to
take the control of the railways out of the
hands of private companies, and place it with
PARLAMENTARY DEBATES
295
the government. He was disposed to object to
this resolution because it departed from the
policy adopted by the government when the system was inaugurated in times gone by,
and he
thought that this was aview of the subject which
deserved consideration. They had only to look
back for a short period and see what had taken
place in Canada in order to appreciate the effects
of placing the control of the public works of a
country in the hands of large and influential
corporations. He objected then to the scheme
because it would introduce into this country
something of the same kind. The effect of this
subvention of these two lines of railroad would
be that the coompany receiving it would necessarily be brought into close connection
with
the government of the day, and to a large extent would be subordinate to them and
under
their influence.
These lines of railroad would run through
various counties of the province -Colchester,
Pictou and Cumberland on the-one hand, and
Hants, Kings and Annapolis on the other. -
They all knew then how many representatives
would be directly interested in their construction- no less a number than sixteen
would be
more or less interested in their completion.
He would ask then whether it would conduce
to the best interests of the country, or the independence of the legislature, that
so 1arge a
proportion of the people's representatives
should be in a position to be influenced by the
companies who would receive this subvention,
and who, again, must necessarily be so closely
connected with the government of lthe day.
He had listened with great interest to the financial picture of the affairs of this
country, so
ably drawn by the hon. leader of the opposition, and he thought that the house would
agree with him that there was no gentleman
in that house or the country whose opinions
were more entitled to respect upon questions
of finance than that hon. gentleman. The hon.
Provincial Secretary had on some occasions
been rather severe upon the hon. member for
Colchester, as regards his skill as a financier;
but from what had taken place recently between them upon another. question of great
public împortance, he thought. that he was not
in a position to question his accuracy now. He did not wish to make any invidious
comparisons between the leader of the opposition and the present Financial Secretary
as regards their financial capacity but as one was comparatively new to the businees
and the other
had; made it his study fonyears, it followed
that he must necessarily have more acquaintance with the subject, and his opinions
were
therefore entitled to greater weight.
The member for Colchestor had rereferred to the past financial position, of
this country, and to our prospects for the future, and he had called upon the hon.
members for Halifax and Richmond to dispute
the position he took. The hon. member for
Halifax (Mr. Tobin) had since addressed the house, but he had not ventured to controvert
the assertion he made, that the present was not the time to embark in these works.
The member for Richmond (Mr. LeVesconte) had not yet spoken but, from what had fallen
from him on a previous occasion, when the sale of provincial debentures was under
consideration, he did not think that he would be
inclined to disagree with the opinions of that
hon. gentleman. On a previous occasion the
hon. Prov; Secy. in , reference to the fisheries
said that his (Mr. C.'s) constituents had better
look round, and find some representative better acquainted with trade and commerce
than
he was. He thought that he had better apply
his. remarks to his own government and to
his financial Secy., and get somebody more
conversant with the intricacies of finance
than that honourable gentleman from. his
previous training could be expected to
be. He thought that it was a lamentable defect in the composition of the present
executive that it did not posses a
single individual amongst its members in any
way identified with the trade or commerce of
the country. He may be told that there was
one gentleman who had formerly been engaged in trade, but from what he knew of that
gentleman's connection with the late government he did not think that his judgment
approved of entering upon the scheme of railway
extension now proposed altho' from his being
a member of the government he was to a certatin extent committed to it. lt was well
known that the government; was principally
if not entirely carried on by the two or three
members of it who sat at the table of that
house, and that in point of fact they were the
real dictators of the affairs of this country. He
could easily fancy then how the opinions of
the hon. gentleman to whom he had alluded
would be set on one side and everything would
be made subservient to the political necessities
of those who held seats in that house.
Reference had been made to the time when
railroads were first commenced in this country, and to the fact that our revenues
then comparatively insignificant. That, no
doubt, was the fact; but it must not be forgotten, that our obligations were also
much less
ready assumed including the Pictou line,
amount" to something like four-fifths of the
entire revenue of 1851; but it seems that this
oad is not enough for Nova Scotia to bear
and we must add this additional burden for
the construction of branch lines to Annapolis
and, the borders of New Brunswick, which
will make the entire amount to be borne by
the revenues of the Province about $500,000 a
year. Now blue nose was a very good natured
fellow, no doubt, but it does not do to push a
willing horse too far; and he cautioned hon.
gentlemen how they committed themselves to
a scheme which was going to entail such heavy
burdens upon the people. He had no wish to
condemn railroards in the abstract; he believed
that when a man had plenty of money, he had
a right to spend it as he pleased ; but where a
person is only possesed of limited means, he
stands in a different position, and should only spend his money upon necessaries,
and not upon luxuries. That was just the position the
province was in. Railroads, no doubt, were a
great convenience, but if they could only be
obtained by the sacrifice"; of other important
interests, they should be left alone.
The government should make themselves
acquainted with the wants and necessities of
the country before they talk about every service being properly provided for. He should
like to take some of them over some of the
roads in the county he represented, and show
them the inconveniences under which the people labored, and the grievances which he
had so often and so unsuccessfully brought to their
296
PARLAMENTARY DEBATES
notice; and he thought that they would come
back with their views considerably changed.
(The hon. gentleman referred to a case of a
petition he had presented to the government,
signed by hundreds of influential persons in his
county, asking for aid to an important public
road, but which was refused any consideration at all. So indignant was one gentleman
at the treatment they had receive, that he
offered to lend £700 himself to carry on the
work which it was the duty of the government
to construct.) This was only one of many instances, in which the government had turned
a deaf ear to the wants of the county of Guysborough. How then could he justify himself
to his constituents, if he voted for these resolutions?
The hon. member for Hants (Mr. Chuchill)
had exhibited himself on the previous evening
in rather an extraordinary attitude, but it appeared that there weresome favored ones
in that
house who could do as they chose provided
they gave the government a vote. That hon.
gentleman had thought proper to absent himself for the greater part of the session
from
his duties, first at his own home and afterwards in a neighbouring country, attending
to
his private interests. Whether that was a proper course for a representive to take
was exceedingly questionable; and now he comes
back and undertakes to impute motives to
hon. gentlemen for the course pursued by
them on this question. He thought that when
it was considered that this railroad would for
a long distance go through the. county that:
hon. gentleman represented, and that large
sum of money would be spent at his very door,
that the less he challenged the motives of
others the better.
He trusted that in the opposition he was
obliged to give to this measure that factious
motives would not be imputed to him. He had
only to point to the couse he pursued last session—on the Pictou railroad—to shew
that he
was not influenced by any factious spirit. It
was then in the power of the opposition, if they
had had the desire, to have seriously embarrassed the government on that question.
He
had, however. taken a higher view of the question, and had supported that measure
although Pictou was not a bit nearer to him than
Annapolis or Windsor. He hoped, therefore,
that the government would not attribute to
him any motives of that description.
At that late period of the session he would
not detain the house at any greater length.
The hon. gentleman concluded by deprecating
any immediate action in the way of incurring
any further liability. He was afraid it would
have the effect of depreciating the value of the
debentures already issued. He appealed to
gentlemen on both sides of the house, to the
supporters of the government; as well as their
opponents, not to he influenced by a mere desire for a party triumph in voting for
a resolution which he believed on sober reflection they
would find to be detrimental to the best interests of the country.
MR. KILLAM alluded to the offer of the International Contract Company, and compared, it with
the terms oifered by the resolution of last session.
He remarked that the question stood in quite
another position from what it did in the previous
Session. In proposing to place the work in the
hands of a company, the government must have
placed very little confidence in their own officers,
for the Commissioner of Railways had given to
the House as his opinion that in a few years the
road would pay three per cent above its working
expenses ; if that were correct the best course
would be for the government itself to undertake
the construction. He said that the terms of the
offer were entirely altered, and it would therefore
be perfectly consistent in the House to reject the
resolution. The determination of the government
seemed to be to keep themselves afloat, whatever
became of the country.
Hon. Mr. MCFARLANE replied to a remark of Mr.
Killam. He said that four different surveys of
routes had been made, but the route was to be
finally selected by the government, acting under
the advice of the very able engineer now in their
employ.
Mr. ARCHIBALD contended that to give to the
government the discretion proposed by the resolution would. be to hand over to them
the entire control of the public chest. So great had been the
mystification of figures on the question that the
member for Halifax, although a merchant, had
made a mistake in stating the public debt, to the
extentof two million of dollars, a sum sufficient
to build the Pictou railway. He had a great
appreciation of the value of railways, and he
hoped that the time had arrived when we could
connect our road with the other lines of the continent ; but the circumstances which
had exhibited
themselves in the trade of the country had convinced him that our prospects were not
so good as
to warrant us in increasing the large liability that
would be necessary to carry on even that work.
He was greatly pleased to find that our present
railways had not only become able to pay their
working expenses, but had commenced to yield
something towards the interest. There was, however, one important circumstance which
had been left out of consideration,—in nearly all railways
the duration of the iron was estimated at eight
years, and the companies made a practice et setting aside a certain sum every year
to, meet the
cost of renewing. Our road was not as much
worked as others and might be expected to last 16
years, 8 of which had already expired, and, he
found that the cost of replacing the line, after deducting the value of the old iron
would be $4,000 per mile, in addition to $400 per mile for
labour, making a total for the work of $431,000,
so that we ought at present to be setting aside for
that service aboutt $53,800 a year. The remarks
of the Commissioner of Railways had given him
no little amusement, That gentleman had previously assigned railways to not very complimentary
company, but now, with the ardor which
always characterized one newly converted from a
heathen to a saint, was outstripping in his zeal
those who had been trained for a lifetime to the
policy to which he had been converted.
Mr. Archibald, after some further remarks
moved the following amendment :—
"Whereas—The location of the Pictou Railway
has added largely to the length of the road contem'plated to be constructed by the
Railway bill last
year ; and whereas in view of the heavy liabilities
PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES. 297
which the construction of that work will entail, and the paramount necessity at the
present exigency of preserving the public credit unimpaired, it is desirable not to
enter at present any new Railway enterprises.
Therefore Resolved—That this house is of opinion , that beyond the completion of the Picton Railway
no additional railway liability should be gone on with by the government untill the
House is enabled, at its next session, to pass an opinion on its necesity."
HON PROV. SEC. said that he admired the pluck which the leader of the opposition shewed in dancing
on nothing after the platform had been taken from under him by the Financial Secretary
and Attorney General. The attitude of that gentleman was only suitable for one who
had opposed railway construction from the first. The government on this occasion
proposed no new policy, but merely asked the House to extend to the amount of £5100
the terms of last year. It was not the first time that the cry "one year more" had
been heard. It was raised at the time when our delegates had obtained for us the
most favourable terms in connection with our mines and minerals, and if the pressure
had then been yielded to a monopoly would still have controlled the resources which
now enrich the country. The proposed expenditure for a connection with the European
and North American line would be only £53,000, while the former government had passed
an act offering £50,000 for our share of the Intercolonial road, an undertaking with
infinitely less paying qualities than the other, and that too without giving us a
line to the fertile West, or to the neighbouring Provinces. He then referred to the
arguments advanced by Mr. Killam.
Mr. Archibald's amendment was lost 27 to 19. For—Heffernan, Ross, Killam, Hatfield, Parker, Ray, McLellan, Miller, Roberston, McDonnell,
C J. Campbell, Blackwood, Archibald, Blanchard, Locke, Caldwell, Balcam, Annand.
Against-Donkin, Shannon, McFarlane, Fin. Secretary, Bill, Longley, Bill, Atty General E.
L. Brown, McKay, More, Juo Campbell, Lawrence, Pryor, Whitman, D. Fraser, Kaulback
Hamilton, Tobin, Jost, Bourinot, J. Fraser, Churchill, LeVesconte, Prov. Secretary.
Mckinnon, Robicheau.
Mr. Miller then moved the following resolution:—"That in the opinion of this House, it is expedient
to define with accuracy the nature and extent of the subvention to be given towards
the construction of lines of Railway to New Brunswich and Annapolis, and not leave
the same to be gathered from proposals which are capable of misrepresentation, and
have been so differently interpreted in the discussion on the resolution before the
House.
Mr. Miller explained that the resolution he had read had been handed him by the hon. member
for Colchester. He had framed himself one similar to it, with the intention of moving
it.
HON. ATTY. GENERAL said that the Government intended bringing in a bill, defining the powers to be
given under the original resolution. The present amendment was a direct insult to
the Government.
Mr. Archibald said that it was only due to the House that the resolution to beadopted should be
definite in its character.
HON. PROV. SEC. said that this resolution was altogether unnecessary, after the explanations that
had been given by the Government, that it was intended to submit a bill, distinctly
defining the powers that were to be given to them in connection with this question,
He challenged the hon. leader of the opposition to produce a precedent where the
Government had been treated as on the present occasion.
The amendment was lost by 28 to 18.
For-E. Brown, Heffernan, Ross, Hatfield, Parker, Ray, Killam, McLellan, Miller, Robertson,
McDonnell, Archibald, S. Campbell, Blackwood, Blanchard, Locke, Annand, Balcom.
Against—Pryor, Juo Campbell, C J. Campbell, Atty. Gen., McKay, Moore, Shannon, Lawrence,
Donkin, Whitman, Longley, D. Fraser, Kaulback, Hamilton, Tobin, Jost, Bourinot, J.
Fraser, Churchill, LeVesconte, McFarlane, Robicheau, Calwell, Fin. Secretary.
The original resolution then passed by a vote of 28 to 18.
The House adjourned at about half-past 12.
CLOSE OF CONFEDERATION DEBATE.
HON.PROV. SEC. moved that the adjourned debate on the Union of the Colonies be resumed.
Mr. ARCHIBALD said—At this late period the session, it is impossible to resume the debate on this
question without wearing the patience of the House on all sides. The Supreme Court
meets here next Tuesday, and the legal gentlemen in this House have necessarily much
to occupy their attention. Besides nothing practical can grow out of this discussion.
The House are already committed by the resolution of last year to a Union of the
Maritime Provinces, and the on y difficulty that may prevent gentlemen agreeing to
the present resolution is its preamble. I therefore rise to suggest to the Provincial
Secretary, whether he would not be willing to withdraw this preamble, which is a matter
of no importance.
HON.PROV. SEC.—My colleagues and myself, entirely concur in the opinion that it is very desirable
that the House should preserve the same attitude it assumed last session in reference
to a Union of the Maritime Provinces. I think it is only justice to the delegates
from these Provinces to say that it was not their fault that the Conference held under
the resolution of last session had not a different result. It is only fair that I
should also say that I am now much less sanguine than I was last year of any practical
result growing out of this resolution. It is a secret no where, that as far as the
Island of Prince Edward is concerned, they have decided to have nothing to do with
anybody under any circumstances, nad to remain in their present isolated condition.
Since I addressed the House on the last occasion I notice that two prominent members
of the New Brunswick Government have pledged themselves against a Legislative Union
of the Maritime Provinces. It will be our duty, however, to ascertain the feelings
of the Government of that Pro
298 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES
vince on the subject, and to bring it to a termination. I can but add, that, if removing
the
preamble to this resolution will enable the House
to come to the some unanimous conclusion they
did last year, I will cheerfully consent to the
proposition made by my hon. friend opposite
Mr. ANNAND.— I am glad the Prov. Secy.
has made the announcement he has, that he will
withdraw the preamble. This portion of the resolution was distasteful to many gentlemen,
and
prevented them assuming the same position they
did last year. It is apparent that the proposed
Union with New Brunswick cannot possibly be
consummated — a union I heartily desire — and it
would, be therefore, useless at the present stage
of the session, to proceed any further with the
matter.
Hon. ATTORNEY GENERAL— I have come to the
conclusion that I will not have the pleasure of addressing the House, for the reasons
given by the
gentlemen who have spoken. There is now a considerable amount of business that must
be transacted without delay. I have no hesitation in saying that if the course now
suggested is not adopted, the House must be delayed at least a fort- night longer.
I have reluctantly yielded to the
suggestion to close the debate. I have listened
with a great deal of attention, to the gentlemen
who have spoken on this subject, and I certainly
must say, that I had hoped to have been able
to reply to their observations. I have not
yet had an opportunity of fully expressing my opinions as one of the delegates. I
did
not consider that it was necessary for me at the
outset of this debate to address the House, but allowed gentlemen to procede me. I
must congratulate gentlemen in the Opposition on this
question, that they have had an opportunity of
fully explaining their views, and placing them
before the country to an extent that the friends of
Confederation have not. Looking, however, at
the time that must be occupied if the debate is
continued, and the delay of public business that
must result, I have waived my own feelings in
the matter.
Mr. TOBIN. — Whilst I am not going to oppose
the resolution, I must express my conviction that
a Union of the Maritime Provinces cannot bring
with it any positive advantages. There is very
little trade and business between Nova Scotia and
New Brunswick. We can never gain nationality by means of such a Union. I am quite
Sure, too, that New Brunswick has no desire
whatever to unite with us. I firmly believe, if we
cannot be united to a large country like Canada,
it is better for us to remain as we are. I expressed
the same opinions last year, and I see no reasons
now for changing them.
Mr. S. McDONNELL—I must confess that I vote
for the resolution with no little reluctance. That
the time of the House would be wasted in the discussion of this question, I do not
believe. A question that has engaged the attention of so many
prominent public men in these Provinces, and has
agitated the public mind to so large an extent, is
surely worth a few day's debate. The country has
expected that every man would express his
opinion on the subject In view, however, of the
desire of the House to bring the discussion to a close,
and of the fact that the Prov. Secy. has consented
to withdraw the preamble, I shall agree to allow
the resolution to pass without making any further
observations
Mr. MILLER —I feel just as reluctant as other
gentlemen, to allow the question to pass without
expressing my views, especially after the position
which I occupied last year, and have since taken
in reference to it. However, I heartily concur with
gentlemen as to the necessity of saving the public
time. Besides the debate would not really elicit
much new information, for nearly all the facts
connected with it have already been put before the
country. I don't desire to divide the House on the
resolution, but I wish it to be understood distinctly that I am not at all committed
to it. I entertain views similar to those expressed by the hon.
member for Halifax (Mr. Tobin,) respecting a
Union ot the Maritime Provinces. If I have any
desire for a Union it is for the larger one. The
opinions I held last year I hold now. My opposition has not been to the Union' in
the abstract
but to the terms on which it was secured. I
defy any one to find a passage in anything I have
said since last session, which proves that I am opposed to a Union on fair and equitable
terms.
Hon. FIN. SEC.—Any one must see that that if
this debate were continued, we must be here a
good many days longer. I take it for granted that
every gentlemen in this House will feel that he
should give his constituents the benefit of the
views he entertains, and define the position which
he occupies, but that he can do equally as well
when he visits his county.
Mr. S. CAMPBELL—As I have offered no remarks upon the question during the debate which
has ensued, I now rise to make a speech. It will
be a very short one; it is that the question be now
put
The resolution then passed as amended without
a division.
[The remaining days, till the prorogation.
were taken up with merely routine business,
summaries of which have already appeared
in the city papers-Reporter]
This individual participated in:
