A Bill to incorporate the Eastern Bank of New Brunswick, in the County of Westmorland.
A Bill in amendment of the Act to incorporte the Woodstock Railway Company.
A Bill to incorporate the Grand Loyal Ribbon Society of New Brunswick.
BILL TO PREVENT DUAL REPRESENTATION.
Hon. Mr. WILLISTON moved the
House into Committee on a Bill relating to Members of the House of Assembly.
Hon. Mr. WILLISTON.—This Bill
provides two principles ; first, that no
person who is returned as a member
for the House of Commons of Canada
can sit or vote in this House ; and secondly, that any person who may now
occupy a seat in the Legislative Coun
DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1867. 123
cil, if elected or appointed to a seat at Ottawa, shall vacate his seat in the Local
Legislature. An Act of this nature has been passed in Nova Scotia, and it is of some
importance that it should also pass here. As to our power to legislate on matters
of this kind, I think it is clearly given to us in section 129 of the Imperial Act,
where it is said that all powers and authorities which we hold at the time of Union,
except as otherwise provided by the Act, shall remain and continue in force as if
the Act had not been made, showing clearly that we have the power to amend our constitution
if we see fit. The passing of this Bill is called for, as an act of duty to those
who may be left here when the Union is consummated, and may have left this House to
represent the people at Ottawa ; for there are many persons in the country who will
readily come forward and here be schooled for higher positions in the Dominion, who,
if dual representation was permitted, would be entirely shut out from political life.
This is the idea of the Bill, and I believe it commends itself to the minds of every
honorable member in this House.
Mr. SMITH.—I am not at all opposed to the principle laid down in this Bill, but I should like
to see the Attorney General in his place, for I want to ask him a few questions. It
is said that he is one of those who are perfectly willing to represent the people
at Ottawa, and at the same time hold on to a seat in this House, especially if ÂŁ600
is attached to it. This idea, I believe, he put forth publicly here in Fredericton,
and it is said there are others who are quite willing to do the same thing. In Canada
they have taken no steps to prevent dual representation ; indeed I see that the leading
minds in the Government there seem to foster the idea of holding seats in both Houses.
I should certainly like to know the sentiments of the members of the Government on
the question, as to whether we can legislate in this matter. We are now pursuing a
novel course. Here we have a man, who is said to be a Senator of the Dominion of Canada,
whose name is in the Proclamation, yet he is still holding his seat here, is a member
of the Government and Chief Commissioner of Public Works. I don't see how the Government
can reconcile that to the provisions of the Act. The names of the Senators for Canada
are given and published in the papers, but here we can get no information whatever.
The Government are as reticent as ever, and won't tell us anything that is going on.
To judge by their actions they don't know what they are going to do at all. The Attorney
General told us he was
going to introduce a Bill for a change
in the Magistrates' Courts. He went to the expense of getting the Bill printed, and
it has been sent to the people, but all at once we are told that it is not going to
be brought in. This is a most extraordinary course to pursue ; I never heard the like
of it before. But it seems that all who are connected with this question of Union
are determined to mystify and keep the people in suspense. I see now that Mr. D'Arcy
McGee has put forth, here just before the Union is consummated, that after all Confederation
is not quite the thing, and that shortly we must inevitably settle down into a Legislative
Union. We are hardly entered into one Union before these men want to pull down the
structure they have raised, and erect another. He says also, that every man must be
called out to drill, and thus every man is to be made a soldier, as is done in Prussia,
where every man, prince and peasant alike, has to serve two or three years at military
practice. I regard the present as perilous times for our people, the clouds of trouble
seem gathering very thick about us, but I hope that some thing will yet occur to prevent
the impending evils. As to this measure I think the delegates should have provided
for it in the Imperial Act, but it seems as though they had made up their minds to
hold on to their offices here and go to Ottawa as well, if they could get the chance.
The people, however, have shown their opposition to such a course, and so at the last
the Government make up their mind to provide against it. I think the measure is a
good one, and therefore I shall give it my support.
Mr. JOHNSON. As one of the delegates I could not have agreed to make any provision like this
binding by Imperial Statute. The delegates had no power to lay down what course should
be pursued, for it was a privilege of the people to say whether their representatives
should be allowed to hold a seat in the General as well as the Local Legislature.
But whilst I could not agree to have it laid down in the Act, yet I had very decided
feelings as to the requirement of such an Act as this ; for there may arise an occasion
when the Local and General Parliaments are in conflict, and to have the twelve or
fifteen men who represent the Province at Ottawa to come back and take their seat
here, might prove disastrous to the best interests of the country. I have felt all
along that it would be putting a power into their hands which they should not possess.
To avoid any such difficulties this Bill has been introduced, and I am sure that it
will meet with the approbation of the people.
Hon. Mr. TILLEY.—It is a great pity that my hon. friend from Westmorland
should be so much affected by what Mr. McGee may think or say, but I am under the
impression that he might be much more so if he would take to heart the language used
by a candidate on the other side in Nova Scotia, who, if report is true, has given
vent to his feelings by the use of language which is to be deprecated by every loyal
subject in British America. I do not think, however, that in this House we should
be guided by what Mr. McGee or Mr. Howe may say in their private capacity. When myÂ
hon. friend gets to Ottawa, for they say he is sure to go there, if Mr. McGee brings
up a measure to make the people of the Dominion spend a certain time every year in
military drill, he can then stand up and oppose it ; but it is not necessary to bring
the matter in here. The fact is, Mr. McGee has an idea that the militia of the Confederation
should be made more efficient, and the same idea has been expressed by the Administrator
of the Government here. But there was a time, Mr. Chairman, when the people of this
Province had to turn out and drill for three or four days every year. It may have
proved a hardship for them to do it sometimes, but I greatly mistake the feelings
of our people if they would not be willing to do it again to put themselves in a position
to defend their firesides from the attack of an invader. But my hon. friend is also
very much tried too, because Mr. McGee says, that we shall ultimately have to come
to a Legislative Union. But if I mistake not my hon. friend made this very thing one
of the points of his objections to the Quebec Scheme, and laid it down as the ground
of his belief why the Union contemplated should not be gone into. And as to the question
now before us, dual representation, as it is called, there is an impression generally
abroad that the hon. member from Westmorland favored the idea ; I know it was so believed
in his own County. Now, I never had but one idea on this matter, and that was that
it was incompatible with the interests of the country that a man should hold seats
in both Houses. I believe this principle will become general all over the Dominion.
My hon. friend speaks of the withdrawal of a Bill, a draft of which was before the
House, and which the Attorney General had contemplated carrying through, as a great
crime. Why, Mr. Chairman, after consulting with our friends on that subject, we found
that there was no possibility of passing it, and so it was withdrawn. I don't see
anything very dreadful in that. But he says the Attorney General must have changed
his ideas very much if he is willing the present Bill should pass. The Attorney General
is not present, and therefore he cannot answer as to his ideas on this question, but
I think I remember a very important occasion on which the opinions of my hon. friend
were said to have changed. It was said
124 DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1867
that he was not unfavorable to Confederation under certain provisions, but when he
came to the House he we directly against it. He seems to take every opportunity day
and night, in the House and out of it, to alarm the people as to the future prospects
of this country, which he characterizes as dark and gloomy and perilous, and all that.
It is true the state of trade is dull at present, but we looking to the Union to aid
in a material degree, in relieving the distress which at present is felt in certain
quarters, and there is no necessity at all to picture out the future as all darkness
and ruin. As to the Senators. It seems that a paper in Canada has a reppresentative
in regard who has telegraphed out the names as contained in the proclamation, so far
as regards Canada ; but we have not incurred that expense and therefore are not yet
in a position to make known who have been appointed. As to the Chief Commissioner
of the Board of Works being able, under the Act, to hold his seat, it is my private
opinion that there is nothing to prevent his doing so till the first of July, the
day on which the Union will be consummated ; yes, Mr. Chairman, that he can do so
just as legally as the hon. member for Westmorland, whose name, I may tell him, is
not in the Proclamation.
Mr. SMITH.—No, it is not in the
Proclamation, for the Secretary is well
aware that I would take no favors at their
hands, and if they had asked me to have it put on, I should not have allowed it. The
Secretary says that I changed my opinion on Confederation ; but, Mr. Chairman, I have
answered that charge over and over again. He knows very well that the paragraph in
the Speech was put there by the Governor, who said the Government were not responsible
for it, but he expressed the sentiments which he was authorised to do by instructions
from the Mother Country. But why should he refer to this? He knows the backstair influence
which was used to get that inserted, and that it reflects no credit on the parties
engaged in it. He says I changed my opinion. I deny it. But he went to England an
anti-confederate, and returned a Confederate. I went an Anti, and returned an Anti.
When I think of what was done to oust the Government of which I was a member, I can
scarcely restrain my feelings. The administration of the Secretary was a stain and
a blot upon the history of this Province And when our of power he used all sorts of
treachery and backstair influence to get in again. They worked with Governor Gordon
in the tyrnnical course he pursued towards the people of this country, but I should
like to know the opinion on the Government on Governor Gordon now. I am willing to
go back to the people on the question then
at issue, and leave the verdict with them.
The Secretary talks about the great
benefits which Union ere going to confer
upon us, end of the good times that are
coming. I hope the result will be as
satisfactory as he depicts, but I say the
signs of the time indicate that troublous
times are coming. I am surprised that
he should treat with the levity the opinions of such a man as D'Arcy McGee, who he
knows speaks the opinions of the Government of which he is a member ; and he says
that a Legislative Union is inevitable, and that very shortly. The Secretary says
I was in favor of a Legislative Union, but I never was. I was always of the opinion
that no Union with Canada could be obtained that would be fair and equitable for us.
Here we are now on the very verge of Union, and we are to pay $50,000 for Governor
General, and other expenses of Government greater than is required to carry on the
affairs of the United States. The Secretary has referred to Joe Howe, but does not
tell us what is so very objectionable that he has said. He is one of the most eminent
men in British North America, and his voice will be resound in the Halls of Ottawa
—they can't keep him out—and a large member of his friends will be with him. He has
ever been loyal to the British Crown—none more so. His speeches have ever breathed
a spirit of loyalty and devotion, and what does the Secretary mean? As to Nova Scotia
we shall soon see how many of the men who have betrayed their country can be returned
by the people. Yes, I believe the people will rise in their might and show who it
is that have the power. Never were a people so betrayed and trampled on in this history
of the world as have been the people of Nova Scotia. The Secretary says that day and
night, in the House and out, I take every opportunity of opposing Union. How does
he know? has he pimps about me at night? I don't know, but it seems that everything
I do and say becomes known to the Secretary. He says that I was in favor of dual representation
; what I said was that I had not seen the Act, but that the members of Government
in Canada was urging it strongly on their friends, and I supposed the practice would
be uniform in all the Provinces. As to Mr. Howe, no one ever heard or saw anything
in him approaching disloyalty, but the Secretary knows that when the question of loyalty
is touched upon, a throb of excitement and feeling is felt by the people, and they
are all ready to go in and show it at all risks. But Mr. Howe is now a private gentleman,
without official capacity at all, and should not be named. It is very different with
Mr. McGee. He is a public officer, high in the confidence of the Government, and as
such when he
speaks he speaks the language and feel
ings and sentiments of the Government. The Secretary says that all he asks for is
that the militia should be put in a more efficient state, but is not so. His idea
is to organize a standing army, and keep it up by the services of the able bodied
strength of the community. The Secretary refers to the three or four days formerly
spent in drilling our people, and says they would be willing to do it again. But we
all know that those occasions of muster produced nothing but vice and immortality
; ad I would ask are we to go back to such times? Is history to repeat itself? That
old practice was a burden on the people, they rejoiced when they were relived from
it, and have no desire to have it imposed upon them again. The Secretary says there
is no cause for alarm. That is a very different cry than was raised when the Fenians
were on the border. It was said they came down in the interest of the Antis, and declare
I themselves their friends, when they, by that very statement, cut our throats, and
Â
played a very important part generally
in the election contest. He says that l
oppose whatever comes up, but I think I
have shown a great deal of forbearance
all through the Session. I have tried to
get information upon certain points, but
the Government seem afraid to let the
public know anything at all. And sec
the cowardice and pusilanimity they displayed in withdrawing a Bill which they
had put before the House and country.
The Attorney General said he was going
to press the Bill, but he has told an untruth—It has been wthdrawn. And what
have the Government been doing ? I
hnow some of them have been enjoying
themselvey pretty well ; but where is the
Report of the Chief Commissioner of the
Board of Works ? Where is the Postmaster General's Report? Where is the
Report of the Surveyor General? All
the accounts are closed down to the 31st
October, and one would suppose they hed
plenty of time to make them up by the
time the House meets ; but here the Session is well advanced, and scarcely any
of the Government Reports before us.
Some of them have been away in England, and it is said they met with a very
hearty reception, but where have the rest
been? I came up here once, and there
was not a single member of the Government to be found. Mr. Fulton was the
governing power then. As to this Bill.
as I said before, I think it will prove
beneficial, but if, in speaking upon this
or any other question, I see fit to touch
upon other matters aiiecting the general
welfare of the public, I shall do so without asking permission of the Secretary.
Mr. BECKWITH.— This discussion is
taking a much wider range than I sup
DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1867. 125
posed it would have done, but as I have no past difficulties to complain of, and no
evils to redress, I shall confine the few remarks I make to the question before us.
These are, I think, many strong reasons why this Bill should pass. It is probable
that the Houses both here and at Ottawa will meet in the winter, and hence if a member
held a seat in both he would have to leave one or the other vacant, and we may be
very sure it would not be the one at Ottawa. Then it is probable that many questions
will arise, in which the General and Local Legislatures will not agree. No doubt laws
will be passed here which will go to Ottawa and be there discussed, and these men
who were in the minority here might there be able to wield an influence suficient
to have it repealed. It is evident that a man cannot faithfully serve two masters
or two interests, and therefore he should not be placed in the awkward position of
being compelled to sacrifice the interest of either of his constituencies. I think
the rule should also be carried out in Canada, and it is probable that it will be
; but even though it should not be, we shall not suffer by it. Neither do I think
that because it was not put in the Act of Union any reflection should be cast on the
delegates. They did right I think in leaving it to the decision of the people by their
representatives, and they expressed the general feeling of the people in doing so.
I will say one word as to the militia. I am not one of those who look upon the old
system of training for four days as the cause of so much vice and immorality. I have
seen quite as much drunkenness—for that is the immorality referred to—at our Agricultural
Exhibitions, at our Crown Land Sales, at our Fairs and Races as I ever saw at a training
; and to say that we should not prepare ourselves for war in times of peace, is the
same as to say that we should not obtain engines till our houses are on fire. I do
not fear for the future of this country. I remember the war of 1812, for I was a boy
then, and I know the position of the United States then was no better than ours is
now. There were troubles all along our borders, but small as we were then, I know
that their attacking forces were always driven back, and in some cases whole regiments
were captured, and I have no apprehension that we should fall a prey to them, now
that we are in a so much better position, even if they tried to subdue us. I do not
believe in the Prussian system of taking all the available strength of the country
and converting it to military purposes, but I think a plan will be decided on that
will prove quite effective without being a great burden upon the people.
Hon. Mr. TILLEY.—Although the hon. member for Westmoreland appeared
very much alarmed as to the future of
this country, I thought it was but in appearance, and it must now be highly satisfactory
to the House and country to know from his own lips that he does not feel that alarm
and dread which his words would have seemed to imply. As to his forbearance this Session
in not opposing the Government, I thank him for it, but with all his forbearance he
cannot withhold using very strong language toward us. For example, he has called us
a cowardly Government ; but I know that we have not shown ourselves to be so. When
my hon. friend was in the Government with us, I think we fought out the question of
the Intercolonial Railway, and I am sure we did not exhibit any such spirit in the
question of Union. We took our stand and went to the people upon it. If cowardice
was shown in Nova Scotia, I am sure there was none in New Brunswick, and I defy him
to put his hand upon one act of the Government which will bear such a title. The only
case that I know of where there was an exhibition of cowardice, was in the case I
have referred to, when within the last fifteen months a Government took a stand on
the question of Union by submitting it in the Speech from the Throne and then backed
out from it directly they came upon the floors of the House. I deprecated the introduction
of expressions of the opinions of Mr. McGee or any one else, and my hon. friend says
that he speaks for his Government ; but how can that be the opinions of the Confederate
Government ? That Mr. Howe, as he says, may be in the Legislature at Ottawa, is within
the bounds of possibility, but that does not affect what he may have said in Nova
Scotia. It is true, his speeches, as reported, have not always been acknowledged,
and it may be the case with Mr. McGee. He may have been reported as uttering expressions
which he may never have used. The hon. member says he is not for a Legislative Union,
but at the same time he acknowledges that he would rather have that than a Federal
Union. He charges the delegates with being away a long time and not doing anything.
That might very well apply to the delegation of 1865, but not to that of 1866. He
does acknowledge that we have got more money than we should have had under the Quebec
Scheme ; well, that's something we did. But we did more ; we decided on resolutions
as the basis of Union ; we obtained the passage of an Imperial Act of Union ; we got
the guaranatee for the Inter-colonial Railway, and we also obtained concessions on
the Bill which many thought we could not get. I think this looks like something more
than glorifying ourselves.
Mr. SMITH.—What about the white satin breeches ?
Hon. Mr. TILLEY.— I never saw
them. I have heard a good deal about them, but I have not been fortunate enough to
see them. My hon. friend is mistaken as to the white satin breeches ; you know when
he was there, although he had the honor of an interview, it was in morning dress.
Well Sir, since the matter has been referred to, I may say that we went by command
of Her Majesty. We went once in morning dress and afterward received Her Majesty's
command to appear in full dress. But, Sir, we did not feel that the honor was to us
personally, but to the people of New Brunswick, and to us as their representatives.
The hon. member asks if we are to enact history over again ? I answer that, in some
cases, the people of this Province are prepared and willing to enact history over
again. The old arrangement of training occupied four days, and then we came down to
one, and it was not found to be as good ; for everybody then said, what is the use
of drilling a man one day in the year ? he does not learn anything. I believe the
people now are ready to move and go into this matter with all their heart, and fit
themselves for any emergency which may arise. There are in these Provinces at the
present time four hundred thousand efficient militia men enrolled ; and suppose we
could, in times of danger, call out but one hundred thousand of these, would the knowledge
that we had at our command such a force be sufficient in itself to prevent an ordinary
aggression ? I think the people are prepared to do something more than they have in
this direction, and if any measure, with the object of putting the militia on a more
efficient footing is introduced, I think it will meet the approbation of the people.
My hon. friend has referred to the Fenians, and asks if their coming had not some
effect on the elections ? I think it had, and a most decided one, for when they came
and said they were prepared to assist the Antis in preventing Confederation, the feeling
in favor of Union at once became more general, for the people saw that in that alone
was safety. He talks about the gloomy future, but I am not afraid of our prospects.
To-morrow, in order to prepare the way for the assimilation of our commercial relations
with those of the other Provinces under Union, I shall bring in a Bill relating to
our fiscal and tariff arrangements, by which the duties on certain articles will be
reduced four per cent ; but I suppose my hon. friend won't support that. I do not
doubt, however, but that we have full powers to act in this matter. He says that the
Attorney General expressed an opinion in favor of dual representation in public. I
did not hear him, but I saw in the papers that he had made some remarks tending that
126 DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1867.
way. But the hon. member is aggrieved
because it was not put down in the Act
that it would not be permitted. We were
all unanimous on the subject, but had no
power to deal with it, and even if we had
possessed the power, it would not have
been expedient to do so.
Mr. SMITH. -It is a novel idea that
the Delegates had not the power. Why,
they were acting as the representatives of
the Home of Commons, and had full
powers to decide on any question affecting
the interests of the Dominion. The
Secretary says he is going to bring in a
Bill to aller the Tariff, and says it can be
done. When I asked him the other day
to take stock in Western Extension he
said it could be done, but I find that it is
denounced in the other branch, and that consequently the Government are not going
to do it. So they have changed their policy on that question, it seems. He says that
we have four hundred thousand men enrolled as Militia, but I ask him what our revenues
are to keep up these men in time of war, or how long they would last to keep up a
standing army of one hundred thousand? Our people are thoroughly loyal, but I do not
believe they are willing, at a time when things are in such a bad state, with flour
at $11 or $12 a barrel, and distress prevailing everywhere, to keep up a large body
of standing Militia. Now he takes credit to himself for what was done in England ;
but I say if changes were obtained in the Quebec Scheme, the present Government cannot
take the credit, for they pronounced that scheme faultless. I find that some changes
have been made for the better, but many more for the worse. He has now made public
the fact that the Delegates had two interviews with Her Majesty ; I thought there
was but one. He says it was no honor done to him, but to the people. Well, if that
is the case, I think we ought to see the dress in which he appeared—they say it cost
ÂŁ60. I saw that while in England the Secretary was presented with an address, in which
he was lauded to the skies for the sacrifices he had made. It gave the whole of his
political history, and it seems strange how they became acquainted with it all. The
papers state that he was so choked with emotion that he could scarely reply. I suppose
it was all right, although I should like to know something of the great sacrifices
which he has been called upon to make.
Mr. JOHNSON.— The debate has taken a much wider range than I thought it would have done, and
some remarks have been made that I feel called on to allude to. Reference has been
made to Confederation, and a gentleman has been named who does not reside in the Province,
and if I remained silent it might be thought that I concur in what has been
said. Mr. Howe has been from my earliest infancy my tutor. I always have
looked to him as a leader worthy to be
followed, and if now he is attacked, it
must be remembered that it is Howe attacking Howe. When I first came into
public life I met Mr. Howe at Stubbs'
Hotel, in Saint John, and my hon. friend
who was present will remember the man
with the high shirt collar. Well, we had
some conversation,—but I will not say
what it was. I will speak of him as a
Colonist, and when I heard and read what
he said to the British Government, I
thought it strange that a men who had
gone to the United States and had to
sleep in different beds every night to
escape detection, I say I thought it strange
that he should say to the British Government that we should not go into Union lest
the United States might take umbrage and take measures to annex us. When he, as a
Colonist, pandered to the men who, for the commercial advantages which might arise
to England from prolonged peace and amity with the United States, were willing to
prevent our uniting together, I thought it very strange, and I felt that through troubles
arose from it, and this were the battle ground, the people of this Province would
boldly and bravely stand up for the defence of their homes and hearths against the
United States in such a cause. I do not think the United States Government want to
annex us, but there is a power behind them urging them on. Howe said that if we were
united it might give offence to a foreign power, and I felt, as a Colonist, that England
would consider us wanting in that pluck and self-reliance which has ever characterized
the English race. My hon. friend from Westmorland has said that it is intended to
make us all soldiers, and that it will be no better than it is in Prussia. But I would
ask him if we can show me a nation more high in patriotism, in position and prosperity
than Prussia? If the making us all soldiers will make us like that country, we need
not be afraid of it ; I believe in making a man fit to fight, even though he may not
have to do it. On the principle of the Bill my hon. friend and I concur, but as reference
was made to Mr. Howe I thought it best to make these remarks. I do not think it is
judicious to bring him into discussion ; but if he is, and is lauded, all we have
to do is to show what his past life has been and what he is now.
Hon. Mr. TILLEY.— The question has been asked me, why it is that the hon. member for Westmorland
takes up so much time in denouncing Confederation ? Of course, it is expected to have
some effect. We all know that is the policy of the opponents of Union to get as many
of their number at Ottawa as possible, and these speeches now will save a good deal
of time at the hustings, as they are all reported in the papers and Debates. My hon.
friend asked, What has Confederation done thus far? He says the people
are poor and the times are bad. We
have not yet entered into Confederation,
and therefore it cannot be expected to have
done much for us, but thus far even it has
had the effect of giving confidence in the
capabilities and resources of the country
to be developed under Confederation to
persons who would otherwise have left the
country. He says I changed my views,
but he knows that I was willing to get
the very best terms possible, and if we
could not get any changes made then I
was willing to take the basis of the Quebec Scheme And he asks, Who should
take the credit for the changes made?
Well. Mr. Chairman, certainly not those
who have been from the first opposed to
Union on any terms. If my hon. friend
had changed his position, as many others
have done all over the Province, and
which he says he has not done, then he
might have taken some of the credit to
himself, but not now. He says we are all
to be made soldiers, and asks where the
revenues are to come from to support a
standing army? But it is not intended
to call them out and keep them up, but
only to place the Militia upon a good
footing. He says I indulge in a good
deal of self glorification, and referred to
an address which was presented to me by
my Temperance friends, asking how they
got their information. Well, they did not
get it from me. I am not the man who
talks in the House or on the platform of
the personal sacrifices I have made. He
says I was choked with emotion. Well,
I did not know that I was able to do much
that way, but that is a forte possessed
very strongly by my hon. friend. I remember when I was lecturing on Union
in Westmorland some one said to me,
"You should come the pathetic as Smith
does," and hon. members well know that
peculiar tremor in his voice, so fitted to
create an impression on his listeners,
when he feels deeply on any subject.
Seelng that my hon. friend is not free from
this, I may be well pardoned if, on an
occasion like that, I should find a difficulty of expressing myself, and my
friends may have thought I was more
deeply affected than in reality I was. As
to the expressions of praise I heve remarked that as a general rule our friends
pile it on a little too much one side, while
our enemies do the same thing the other
side. I have to apologize for taking up
so muoh of the time, but it was called for
by the hon. member for Westmorland
travelling out of the record to make Confederation the cause of the distress and
dullness which prevails, when in reality
we are looking forward to Union to
remedy it.
DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1867.127
Mr. CHANDLER. - I see no purpose
to be gained in prolonging this discussion. The question of Union has bee gone over
and over again, and it is well picked to the bone. When the Delegates went home we
thought too many were sent; but the work before them was great and wanted all the
light that could be thrown upon it. They have done their work and done it well, and
the people are satisfied. A great deal of ridicule has been casto on what was done
there; but, sir, when our Delegates went home we expected them to conform to the manners
of the people and the usages of society. Did my hon. friend from Westmorland expect
they were going to eat soup with a horn spoon, or burgoo with their fingers? - (laughter.)
When they appeared at Court for presentation to Her Majexty they were dressed as very
body has been since the days of Charles I.; and, sir, it must be remembered that when
franklin went hom as a Delegate from the United States he appeared be- form King George
III. in just such a costume. I have heard a good deal said about the dress and the
perturbation of feelings exhibited. It is said that one of our Delegates got up at
three o'clock in the morning to wriggle himself into his white satin breeches, but
I don't believe it. However, they accomplished their purpose, and I have heard but
one expression of opinion upon the result. We now look forward to see the lumberman,
the agriculturist, and every department benefitted by the Union upon which we are
about to enter. It is time that many young men who have gone away from Charlotte because
ther was no work of a remunerative character to do, but I know that many of them hold
themselves in readiness to come back directly the country shows signs of being able
to give them a comfortable means of support.
Mr. SMITH. - The Secretary seems to
like to make fun of men. He quotes from private conversations I have had with persons,
and says my style of speaking is pathetic. My voice may not be so clear and full -
I may not be so finished in my style, so eloquent or so great a purist as the Secretary;
but I think that he beings to feel that his glowing descriptions of the prosperity
we were to enjoy under Confederation are not going to be realised. He says he never
talks about the sacrifices he has made, and for very good reason - I never knew him
to make any. Ever since he has been in the House he has held an office with a salary
of ÂŁ600 a year, and so he never made any sacrifices. As to what Mr. McGee said, it
was not that the Militia were to be put upon a good footing, but that we were to have
a universal armament, and that we must have a Legislative Union shortly; and I referred
to him because he is a
public man and a member of the Canadian Government. When I spoke of him I spoke of
a public man whose acts and words may be criticised; but when the Secretary referred
to Mr. Howe he spoke of a private man, which was wrong. I have not the ability to
defend Mr. Howe as he should be, but the question on both sides has been argued out
and is before the public. I dare say my remarks are are tedious to some hon. members,
going over the same ground again and again, but I am here to represent the country
and cannot let statements go unchallenged, and so shall refer to Confederation and
the events which occur around us,- in Canada, in England, or anywhere else, - and
shall not ask permission of the Secretary, either.
The question upon reading the Bill
section by section was then taken and carried in the affirmative.
The Bill was then read and agreed to without further debate.
DELEGATION TO ENGLAND.
REPORT OF THE DELEGATION TO ENGLAND, TO ARRANGE FOR A UNION OF THE BRITISH NORTH AMERICAN
PROVINCES.
FREDERICTON, N. B.,
8th MAY, 1867.
May it please Your Excellency,
The undersigned Delegates, appointed
by the Lieutenant Governor to arrange with her Majesty's Government a Scheme of Union
for the British North American Provinces, with the exception of the Hon. P. Mitchell
and the Hon. J. M. Johnson, who sailed some days later, reached Liverpool on the 28th
July last, in company with the Delegates from Nova Scotia, and immediately transmitted
the following telegram to the Right Honorable the Secretary of State for Colonies
:
"Can Your Lordship favor Nova Scotia and New Brunswick Delegates with a brief interview
on Monday next ; and if so, at what hour?
(Signed) CHARLES TUPPER, S. L. TILLEY."
The same day the following reply was
received :
"Lord Carnarvon will be most happy to receive the Delegates from Nova Scotia and New
Brunswick on Monday next, at three P.M."
In accordance with this intimation, the Delegates from Nova Scotia and New Brunswick
waited upon His Lordship at the Colonial Office, and explained fully the position
of the Confederation question, and expressed the hope that the Delegates from Canada,
when they found that the Delegates from the Martime Provinces had proceeded to London,
would follow them by the Canadian steamer of the 21st, and that they would soon arrive.
Lord Carnarvon expressed the desire of Her Majesty's Government to promote the object
of this mission, and said he would telegraph at once to Canada by the Cable.
On the 31st July the following note was received from Lord Carnarvon's Private Secretary
:
JULY 31st, 1866.
SIR,—I am directed by Lord Carnarvon to inform you, that immediately after your interview
of yesterday, he telegraphed to the Officer Administering Canada, enquiring whether
the Delegates from that Province had already started for Europe. No answer has yet
been received, and owing to the intermission in the wire between Newfoundland and
the main land, no immediate answer can be counted on.
"As furthermore the Canadian Delegates have not yet been reported by telegram as having
passed Londonderry, we cannot in any event expect to see them in London before the
end of this week.
"Under these circumstances, Lord Carnarvon, after much consideration, finds it impossible
to hold out any hope of proposing any measure to Parliament during the very short
remnant of the Session.
DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1867 123
"Lord Carnarvon wishes me to add,
that such must be the answer which he will be obliged to make to-night to the House
of Lords to a question of which notice has been given, as to the steps which he proposed
to take with regard to Confederation.
"Should you, Sir, or any of the gentlemen who are with you, wish to be present in
the House of Lords to-night, Lord Carnarvon will have the greatest pleasure in introducing
you. He has also written to request that places may be provided for you in the House
of Commons.
I have, &c.
(Signed) CECIL C. GRAHAM.
The Hon. S L. Tilley.
On the 12th of September, the following letter was addressed to Lord Carnarvon:
Alexandra Hotel, Sept. 12th, 1866.
MY LORD.— As Delegates from the Provinces of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, appointed
to confer with Delegates from Canada and with Her Majesty's Government, upon the question
of a Confederation of the British North American Provinces, we are naturally anxious
to terminate the suspense in which we have been left since our arrival here, relative
to the time when we may hope to accomplish the object of our mission.
"Believing, as we do, that the abrogation of the Reciprocity Treaty and the Fenian
invasion of Canada, were largely owing to the failure of the Provinces we represent
to agree promptly to form a united Government, as proposed by the Quebec Conference
in 1864, and approved by the Imperial Government, and that the adoption of Confederation
would be the best means of securing the renewal of that Treaty and discouraging Fenian
designs upon British America, the Governments of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick have
been most anxious that no time should be lost in accomplishing the Union of the Provinces.
"With that view, Messrs. Tupper and Archibald visited Ottawa on the 29th of June last,
and after conferring with His Excellency the Governor General and the Canadian Government,
it was mutually agreed that Delegates from the two Lower Provinces should proceed
to England by the steamer leaving Halifax on the 19th July, and that Delegates from
Canada should follow by the steamer leaving Quebec on the 21st July.
"Subsequently, Lord Monck intimated by telegraph that the change of Government in
England would render it necessary to hear from England before the departure of the
Delegates. The Delegates from Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, after the arrival of
the latter at Halifax, jointly communicated to the Canadian Government their views
as to the necessity for immediate action, and their intention to leave on the 19th
July, as arranged at Ottawa ; and it was only on the eve of their departure that the
received a telegram from the Hon. J. A. McDonald, saying that Lord Monck declined
to go to England or to send a Delegation until authorised by the new Secretary of
State. At the interview with which we were honored by your Lordship on our arrival
in London on the 30th July, we understood your Lordship to say that
you would send a message by the Atlantic Cable to the Governor General, asking if
the Canadian Delegates had late, and if not, requesting that they would come without
delay. Your Lordship subsequently did us the honor to inform us that a despatch had
been sent on the 11th August, requesting the Governor General to arrange for the Canadian
Delegates to proceed to England as soon as possible, and expressing the hope that
in any case they would not be later than the latter part of September.
"Although we have, since our arrival, been favored with frequent opportunities of
discussing the question of Confederation with your Lordship, and other members of
Her Majesty's Government, we have, up to the present time, received no information
as to the period when we may expect the Delegates from Canada. We feel it therefore
due to the Provinces we represent, that we should respectfully solicit your Lordship
to ascertain, and communicate to us, how soon we may expect the Delegates from Canada
to arrive here, in order that we may govern ourselves accordingly.
We have, &c. (Signed) CHARLES TUPPER,
S.L. TILLEY,
To the Right Honorable the Earl of Carnarvon, Seceretary of State for the Colonies."
On the same day this reply was received :
Downing Street, 12th Sept., 1866.
"GENTLEMEN,—I am directed by the
Earl of Carnarvon, to acknowledge your letter of this day's date, requesting His Lordship
to ascertain how soon you may expect the arrival of the Delegates from Canada.
"I am desired to acquaint you that
his Lordship telegraphed to Lord Monck on this subject after the interview to which
you allude in your letter, but that he has not had a specific answer, nor is in possession
of any information beyond what he has communicated to the Delegates at various times.
On the receipt, however, of your present letter, Lord Carnarvon had telegraphed, to
state the inconvenience to which the Delegates of the Lower Provinces are subject
by the delay, and to enquire distinctly when their Canadian colleagues start for England.
"Lord Carnarvon will communicate
the result of this enquiry as soon as known to himself.
I have, &c. (Signed) T. FREDERICK ELLIOT.
The Hon. C. Tupper, The Hon. S. L. Tilley."
On the 17th of September this letter
was received :
"Downing Street, 17th Sept., 1866.
"GENTLEMEN,— With reference to my
letter of the 12th instant, I am directed by the Earl of Carnarvon to acquaint you
that his Lordship has received a telegram from Lord Monck, to the effect, that in
the present state of the Fenian affairs, the principal members of the Ministry, who
must be Delegates, could not leave the Province, and probably not before the closing
of the navigation.
"Lord Carnarvon regrets the occurrence of these unforeseen delays, which must entail
so much inconvenience upon you and your colleagues, both in your public and private
capacity, and he is most anxious to help you, as far as is in his power, to meet the
difficulties of th present turn of affairs. It will, probably be your wish to deliberate
amongst yourselves as to your joint course of action, having done which, his Lordship
will be happy to confer with you, and to give you his best co-operation.
I have, &c. (Signed) T. FREDERICK ELLIOT.
The Hon. C. Tupper, The Hon. S. L. Tilley.
The following reply was sent to Mr. Elliot on the 22nd of September:
Alexandra Hotel, 22nd Sept., 1866.
"SIR,— We have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your letters of the 12th and
17th instant, and thank Lord Carnarvon for the prompt manner in which his Lordship
acceded to our request relating to the Communication with His Excellency the Governor
General, and the desire exhibited to aid us in the circumstances in which we are placed
by the delay on the part of the Delegates from Canada.
"Having had an opportunity of discussing the subject, the Delegates from Nova Scotia
and New Brunswick will be glad to be honored with an interview at Lord Carnarvon's
convenience.
We have, &c., (Signed) CHARLES TUPPER, S. L. TILLEY.
T. Frederick Elliot, Esq."
On the same day this answer was received :
"Downing Street, Sept. 22nd, 1866.
"GENTLEMEN,—In answer to your letter of this day's date, I am directed by the Earl
of Carnarvon to acquaint you that his Lordship will be happy to receive the Delegates
from Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, at this Office, on Monday, at one o'clock, if
that time will suit their convenience.
I have, &c., (Signed) T. FREDERICK ELLIOT.
The Hon. C. Tupper, The Hon. S. L. Tilley."
To this letter the following reply was sent :
"Alexandra Hotel, 22nd Sept., 1866.
"SIR,— In reply to your letter of this day's date, we beg to day that the Delegates
from Nova Scotia and New Brunswick will do themselves the honor of waiting upon his
Lordship the Earl of Carnarvon, at one o'clock, on Monday next, as intimated by you.
We have, &c., (Signed) CHARLES TUPPER, S. L. TILLEY.
T. Frederick Elliot, Esq."
The Delegates from Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, after much consultation and mature
deliberation, having decided to ask further pecuniary advantages for
194 DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1867.Â
the Provinces they represented, arrived at the conclusion that, if successful, similar
advantages might be reasonably extended to Prince Edward Island, and therefore a further
effort should be made to include Prince Edward Island to enter the Confederation,
agreed to the following proposition:
"At a Meeting of the Delegates from Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, held at the Alexandra
Hotel, London, on the 22nd day of September, 1866, all being present except the Honorable
Mr. Wilmot, it was unanimously resolved, that inasmuch as the co-operation of Prince
Edward Island, though not indispensable to a Union of the other British North American
Provinces, is on many accounts very desirable, and as the settlement of the Land question,
which has so long and so injuriously agitated that Colony, would be attended with
great benefit, and at the same time place the Local Government of the Island, by the
possession of the Proprietary lands, more on a footing with other Provinces, which
have Crown Lands and Minerals as a source of local Revenue; therefore
"Resolved, That in case the Legislature of the Island should authorise the appointment of Delegates
to act in conjunction with those from the other Provinces, is arranging a plan of
cooperation- prior to the meeting of the Imperial Parliament, the Delegates from Nova
Scotia and New Brunswick are hereby pledged to support the policy of providing such
an amount as may be necessary for the purchase of teh proprietary rights, but not
to exceed eight hundred thousand dollars, ($800,000.")
(Signed)  CHARLES TUPPER, S.L. TILLEY
On Monday, the 24th September, a lengthened interview took place between the Delegates
and the Secretary of State for the Colonies and Sir Frederick Rogers, when the foregoing
Document was handed to Lord Carnarvon, with a request that he would forward it to
the Governor General of CAnada, and the Lieutenant Governor of Prince Edward Island.
His Lordship was also informed that the Delegates from Nova Scotia and New Brunswick,
with the exception of Messrs. Chandler and MacFarlane, who were obliged to return
home on account of urgent private business, would remain and await the arrival of
the Canadian Delegates.
On the 18th of October, the following letter was received from Sir Frederick Rogers:
"Downing Street, 18th Oct., 1866.
"GENTLEMEN, - I am directed by the Earl of Carnarvon to acquaint you that his Lordship
has received a Despatch from Viscount Monck, stating that the Gentlemen selected as
Canadian Delegates on the subject of Confederation, will leave Canada on the 7th November.
"They hope to assemble in this country about the 20th of that month.
I have, &c.,
(Signed) FREDERICK ROGERS.
The Hon. C. Tupper, The hon. S. L. Tilley."
The Delegates from Canada having arrived, the Conference on the Union of the Colonies
was duly organized at the Westminster Palace Hotel on the 4th of December. The Conference
was composed as follows:
Hon. J.A. Macdonald, " G.E. Cartier, " W.P. Howland " W.M. McDougall, " H. Langevin,
" A.T. Galt, (Canada);
Hon. Charles Tupper, " W.A. Henry, " J.W. Richie, " Jon. McGully, " A.G. Archibald,
(Nova Scotia);
Hon. Peter Mitchell, " S.L. Tilley, " R.D. Wilmot, " Charles Fisher, " J. Johnson,
(New Brunswick).
On motion of the
Hon. C. Tupper, seconded by the
Hon. S. L. Tilley, the Hon. J. A. McDonald was appointed Chairman; H. Bernard, Esquire, was appointed
Secretary.
The Conference continued in session de die in diemuntil the 24th December, when the
following Resolutions were finally agreed upon, and transmitted to the Secretary of
State for the Colonies:
RESOLUTIONS
Adopted at a Conference of Delegates from
the Provinces of Canada, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick, held at the Westminster Palace
Hotel, London, December 24th 1866.
1. The best interests and present and
future prosperity of British North America will be promoted by a Federal Union under
the Crown of Great Britain, provided such Union can be effected on principles just
to the several Provinces.
2. In the Confederation of teh British
North American Provinces, the system of Government best adapted under existing circumstances
to protect the diversified interests of the several Provinces, and secure efficiency,
harmony and permanency of the working of the Union, is a General Government charged
with matters of common interest to the whole country, and Local Governments for each
of the Canadas, and for the Provinces of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, charged with
the control of local matters in their respective sections, provision being made for
the admission into the Confederation, on equitable terms, of Newfoundland, Prince
Edward Island, the North West Territory, and British Columbia.
3. In framing a Constitution for the General Government, the Conference, with a view
to the perpetuation of the connexion with the Mother Country, and the promotion of
the best interests of the people of these Provinces, desire to follow
the model of the British Constitution so
far as circumstances will permit.
4. The Executive Authority or Government shall be vested in the Sovereign of the United
Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and be administered according to the well understood
principles of the British Constitution, by the Sovereign personally, or by the Representative
of the Sovereign duly authorized.
5. The Sovereign shall be Commander
in Chief of the Land and Naval Militia Forces.
6. There shall be a General Legislature or Parliament for the Confederation, composed
of the Sovereign, a Legislative Council, and a House of Commons.
7. For the purpose of forming the Legislative Council, the Confederation shall be
considered as consisting of three Divisions: 1st, Upper Canada, 2nd, Lower Canada;
and 3rd, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick; each division with an equal Representation
in the Legislative Council.
8. Upper Canada shall be represented in the Legislative Council by 24 Members; Lower
Canada by 24 Members; and the Maritime Provinces by 24 Members, of which Nova Scotia
shall have 12 and New Brunswick 12 Members.
9. The Colony of Prince Edward Island, when admitted into the Confederation, shall
be entitled to a Representatation of four Members in the Legislatuve Council. But
in such case the Members allotted to Nova Scotia and New Brunswick shall be diminished
to 10 each, such diminution to take place in each Province as vacancies occur.
10. The Colony of Newfoundland, when admitted into the Confederation, shall be entitled
to a Representation in the Legislative Council of four Members.
11. The North West Territory and British Columbia shall be admitted into the Union
on such terms and conditions as the Parliament of the Confederation shall deem equitable,
and as shall receive the assent of the Sovereign; and in case of the Province of British
Columbia, as shall be agreed to by the Legislature of such Province.
12. The Members of the Legislative Council shall be appointed by the Crown, under
the Great Seal of the General Government from among residents of the Province for
which they are severally appionted, and shall hold office during life. If any Legislative
Councillor shall, for two consecutive Sessions of Parliament fail to give his attendance
in the said Council, hi seat shall thereby become vacant. Â
13. The Members of the Legislative Council shall be British subjects by birth or naturalization,
of full age of thirty years; shall each possess in the Province for which they are
appoint
DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1867. 136
ed a continuous real property qualification of four thousand dollars over and above
all incumbrances, and shall be and continue worth that sum over and above their debts
and liabilities, and shall possess for which they are appointed, except in the case
of persons holding positions which require their attendance at the Seat of Government
pending their tenure of office.
14. If any question shall arise as to the qualification of a Legislative Councillor,
the same shall be determined by the Legislative Council
15. The Members of the Legislative Council for the Confederation shall, in the first
instance, be appointed upon the nomination of the Executive Governments of Canada,
Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick, respectively, and the number allotted to each Provinces,
due regard being had to the Local Council, so nominated, shall decline to accept it,
it shall be competent for the Executive Government, in any Province, to nominate in
his place a person who is not a Member of the Local Council.
16. The Speaker of the Legislative Council (unless otherwise provided by Parliament)
shall be appointed by the Crown from among the Members of the Legislative Council,
and shall hold office during pleasure, and shall only be entitled to a casting vote
on an equality of votes.
17. Each of the twenty four Legislative Councillors, representing Lower Canada, in
the Legislative Council of the General Legislature, shall be appointed to represent
one of the twenty four Electoral Divisions mentioned in Schedule A of Chapter 1 of
the Consolidated Statutes of Canada, and such Councillor shall reside or possess his
qualification in the Division be is appointed to represent.
18. The basis of representation in the House of Commons shall be population as determined
by the official Census every ten years, and the number of Members at first shall be
one hundred and eighty one, distributed as follows:
| Upper Canada, |
82. |
| Lower Canda, |
65. |
| Nova Scotia, |
19. |
| New Brunswick, |
15. |
19. Until the first General Election niter the official Census of 1871 has been made
up, there shall be no change in the number of Representatives from the several sections.
20. Immediately after the completion
of the Census of 1871, and immediatley after every decennial Census thereafter, the
representation from each Province in the House of Commons shall be readjusted on the
basis of population, such re-adjustment to take effect on the termination of the then
existing Parliament.
21. For the purpose of such re-adjustment, Lower Canada shall always be assigned sixty-five
Members, and each of the other Provinces shall, at each re-adjustment, receive for
the next ten years then next succeeding the number of Members to which it will be
entitled on the same ratio of representation to population, as Lower Canada will enjoy
according to the Census then last taken by having sixty five Members.
22. No reduction shall be made in the number of Members returned by any Province un;ess
its popultion shall have decreased relatively to the population of the whole Union,
to the extent of five per centum
23. In computing at each decennial period the number of Members to which each Province
is entitled, no fractional parts shall be considered, unless when exceeding one half
the number entitling to a Member, in which case a Member shall be given for each such
fractional part.
24. The number of Members may at any time be increased by the General Parliament,
regard being had to the proportionate rights then existing.
25. Until provisions are made by the General Parliament, all the Laws which at the
date of the Proclamation constituting the Union are in force in the Province respectively,
relating to the qualification and disqualification of any person to be elected, or
to sit or vote as a Member of the Assembly in the said Province respectively, and
relating to the qualification or disqualification of voters, and to the oaths to be
taken by voters, and to the Returning Officers, and their powers and duties; and relating
to the proceedings at Elections, and to the period during which sueh Elections may
be continued; and relating to the trial of Controverted Elections, and the proceedings
incident thereto; and relating to the vacating of seats of Members, and to the issuing
and execution of new Writs in case of any seat being vacated otherwise than by a dissolution,
shall respectively apply to Elections of Members to serve in the House of Commons
for places situate in those Provinces respectively.
26. Every House of Commons shall continue for five years from the day of the return
of the Writs choosing the same, and no longer; subject, never
theless, to be sooner prorogued or dissolved by the Governor General.
27. There shall be a Session of the General Parliament once at least in every year,
so that a period of twelve calender months shall not intervene between the last sitting
of the General Parliament in one Session and the first sitting thereof in the next
Session.
28. The General Parliament shall have power to make Laws for the peace, welfare and
good government of the Confederation, (saving the Sovereignty of England,) and especially
Laws respecting the following subjects.
1. The Public Debt and Property.
2. The regulation of Trade and Commerce.
3.The raising of Money by all or any mode or system of taxation.
4. The borrowing of Money on the Public Credit.
5. Postal Service.
6. Lines of Steam and other Ships, Railways, Canals, and other works connecting any
two or more of the Provinces together, or extending beyond the limits of any Province.
7. Lines of Steamships between the Confederated Provinces and other Countries.
8. Telegarphic communications and the incorporation of Telegraph Companies.
9. All such works as shall, although lying wholly within any Province. be specially
declared by the Acts authorizing them to be for the general advantage.
10. The Census and Statisitcs.
11. Militia, Military and Naval Service, and Defence.
12.Beacons, Buoys, Light Houses, and Sable Island.
13. Navigation and Shipping.
14. Quarantine.
15. Sea Coast and InlandFisheries.
16. Ferries between any Province and a Foreign Country, or between any two Provinces.
17. Currency and Coinage.
18. Banking, incorporation of Banks, and the issue of Paper Money.
19. Savings Banks.
20. Weights and Measures.
21. Bills of Exchange and Promissory Notes
22. Interest.
23. Legal Tender.
24. Bankruptcy and Insolvency.
25. Patents of Invention and Discovery.
26.Copyrights.
27.Imdians, and Lands reserved for Indians
28. Naturalization and Aliens
29. Marriage and Divorce
30. The Criminal Law, excepting the Constitution of Courts of Criminal Jurisdiction,
but including the procedure in criminal matters.
31. The establishment, maintenance and management of Penitentiaries.
32. Rendering uniform all or any of the Laws relative to propery and civil rights
in Upper Canada, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick,and rendering uniform the procedure
of all or any of the Courts in these Provinces; but any Statute for this purpose shall
have no force or authority in any Province until sanctioned by
196 DEBATES IN THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866
two Ridings to be called respectively
the South and North Ridings:
81. The South Riding to consist of the Townships of McNab, Baget, Blithfield, Brougham,
Horton, Admaston, Graftan, Mattawachan, Griffith, Lyndock, Raglan, Radcliffe, Brudenell,
Sebatopol, and the Villages of Araprior and Renfrew.
82. The North Riding to consist of the
Townships of [?]
INTER-COLONIAL RAILWAY.
On the 29th JAnuary, the following Memorandum was placed in the hands of Lord Carnarvon.
In December 1862, the Delegates from the several Provinces proposed to Her Majesty's
Government that the Imperial guarantees should be given on the following conditions,
viz: -
1. "That the Loan shall be for ÂŁ3,000,000 Sterling.
2. "That the liabilities of each Colony shall be appointed as follows - ÂŁ1, 250,000
for Canada; ÂŁ875,000 for New Brunswick; ÂŁ875,000 for Nova Scotia.
3. "The Debentures shall bear interest at the rate of 3 1/2 percent.
4. The Interest shall be paid half- early in London on the first of May and on the
first of November.
5. "That the sum borrowed shall be repaid in four instalments - ÂŁ250,000 in ten years;
ÂŁ500,000 in twenty years; ÂŁ1,000,000 in thirty years; ÂŁ1, 250,000 in forty years.
6. "The net profits of the Road shall be applied towards the extinction of the Debt.
7. "That the Loan shall be the first [?]
[?]
12. "That all not gained or lost resulting from the working and keeping in repairs
of any portion of the Road constructed by Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, and to be
[?] as a part of the Inter-Colonial Road, shall be [?] and borne by these Provinces respectively, and the surplus, if any, after the payment
of Interest, shall go in abatement of Interest of the [blurred text] line between
Halifax and River du Loup.
13. "That the rates shall be uniform over each respective portion of the Road.
14. "That Crown Lands required for the Railway or Stations shall be provided for each
Province."
The following proposition was made on the part of Her Majesty's Government: -
1. "That Bills shall be immediately submitted to the Legislatures of Canada, Nova
Scotia, and New Brunswick, authorising the respective Governments to borrow ÂŁ3,000,000
under the guarantee of the British Government, in the following proportions: -- five
twelfths, Canada; three and one half twelfths, Nova Scotia; three and one half twelfths,
New Brunswick.
2. " But no such loan to be contracted on behalf of any one Colony until corresponding
powers have been given to the Governments of the other two Colonies concerned, nor
unless the Imperial Government shall guarantee payment of Interest on such Loan until
repaid.
DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1867 Â
209
3. "The money to be applied to the
completion of a Railway connecting Halifax with Quebec, on a line to be approved by
the Imperial Government.
4. "The Interest to be a first charge
on the Consolidated Revenue Funds of the different Provinces after the Civil List,
and the interest of existing debts; and as regards Canada, after the rest of the six
charges [?]
5. [?] ÂŁ1,000,000 to be payable thirty years after contracting Loan. ÂŁ1,250,000 to be payable
forty years after contracting Loan.
[?] first decade from the contracting of the Loan.
"2nd Decade, say 1873 to 1882 inclusive, a Sinking Fund of ÂŁ40,000 to be remitted
annually, being an amount adequate, if invested at five per cent. compound interest,
to provide ÂŁ500,000 at the end of the decade; the sum to be remitted annually to be
invested in the names of Trustees, in Colonial Securities of any of the three Provinces
prior to or forming part of the Loan now to be raised, or in such other Colonial Securities
as Her Majesty's Government approve.
"3rd Decade, say 1883 to 1892 inclusive, a Sinking Fund of ÂŁ80,000 to be remitted
annually, being an amount adequate, if invested at five per cent. compound interest,
to provide ÂŁ1,000,000 at the end of the decade. The amount, when remitted, to be invested
as in the case of the Sinking Fund for the preceding decade.
"4th Decade, say 1893 to 1902 inclusive, a Sinking Fund of ÂŁ100,000 to be remitted
annually, being an amount adequate, if invested at five per cent. compound interest,
to provide ÂŁ1,250,000, being the balance of the Loan, at the end of the decade. This
amount, when remitted, to be invested as in the preceding decade.
"Should the Sinking Fund of any decade produce a surplus, it will go to the credit
of the next decade, and in the
last decade the Sinking Fund will be remitted or reduced accordingly.
"It is of course understood that the assent of the treasury to these arrangements
presupposes adequate proof of the sufficiency of the Colonial Revenues to meet the
charges intended to be imposed upon them.
6. "The construction of the Railway
to be [?]
7.[?]
8. "Fitting provision to be made for
[?]
9. Parliament not to be asked for
[?]
This proposal was [?] by Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, but objected to be Canada.
By the Despatch of Mr. Cardwall, dated the 17th June, 1864, the engagement of Her
Majesty's Government to grant the guarantee was renewed, but consideration of the
terms was postponed for the future arrangement.
In consequence of the proposed Confederation of the Provinces, many of the clauses
in both these propositions appear to be no longer required, and it is submitted that
the terms of the Canada Guarantee Act of 1842 should be in the main followed. The
Delegates therefore propose to Her Majesty's Government -
1st. "That a loan of ÂŁ3,000,000 sterling, be negotiated with the guarantee of Imperial
Parliament, the proceeds to be applied to the construction of the Inter-Colonial Railway.
2d. "The rate of interest to be four per cent. payable half-yearly, and both principal
and interest to form the first charge upon the Revenue of the Confederation after
existing debts and charges.
3d. "A Sinking Fund at the rate of one per cent. per annum to be provided by the Confederation,
to be invested in the securities of the Confederation existing prior to the guaranteed
loan, or in such other securities as may be suggested by the Confederation, and approved
by Her Majesty's Government."
The Trustees of the Sinking Fund to consist of one officer to be appointed by the
Imperial Government, and an
other by the Government of Confederation.
(Signed) JOHN A. MACDONALD, Chairman.
London, 28th January 1967.
On the 12th of February, a Deputation of the Conference, consisting of Messrs. Galt,
Howland, Tupper, and Tilley, waited by invitation upon the Right Hon. the Chancellor
of the Exchequer and explained fully the [?] ing the details connected therewith. [?] placed the following Memorandum in the hands of the Chancellor of the Exchequer.-
[?]
Revenue
| Canadas, .. Â .. |
$23, 472, 740 |
| Nova Scotia, .. Â .. |
1, 665, 071 |
| New Brunswick, .. Â .. |
1, 272, 021 |
|
$15, 309, 840 |
Expenditure.
| Canada, |
$11, 711, 320 |
| Nova Scotia (ab't) |
1, 600,000 |
| New Brunswick |
1, 080,047 |
|
$14, 391, 367 |
| Surplus, .. .. |
$918,473 |
N.B. - Militia Expenditure last year.
| Canada, .. |
$1, 688, 868 |
| Nova Scotia |
156, 460 |
| New Brunswick |
152, 148 |
|
$1, 947, 476 |
Public Debt of "Canada" will be -
| Ontario and Quebec, |
$62, 500,000 |
| Nova Scotia |
8, 000,000 |
| New Brunswick |
7,000,000 |
|
$77, 500,000 |
Charges on Public Debt last year.
| Canada, |
$3, 692, 412 |
| Nova Scotia, |
297, 580 |
| New Brunswick |
349, 283 |
|
$4, 339, 275 |
| After Union will be about |
$4, 350, 000 |
Trade and Shipping.
| IMPORTS, |
Total. |
From Gt. Bri'n |
| Canada |
$48,610,477 |
$28,984,599 |
| Nova Scotia, |
14,381,662 |
6,315,988 |
| New Brunswick |
7,086,591 |
2,284,449 |
|
$70,078,734 |
$37,585,036 |
210 DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1867
*EXPORTS
| Canada, |
$53,930,789 |
$12, 766,668 |
| Nova Scotia, |
8,830,693 |
765,472 |
| New Brunswick, |
5,534,726 |
2,594,651 |
|
$68,296,208 |
$16,125,791 |
* Exclusive of Coin and Bullion.
Tonnage.
| ENTRIES—INWARDS. |
TONS. |
| Canada, .. .. .. |
938,946 |
| Nova Scotia, .. .. |
929,929 |
| New Brunswick, . .. |
807,161 |
|
2,676,036 |
| OUTWARDS, |
|
| Canada, |
1,113,386 |
| Nova Scotia, |
772,017 |
| New Brunswick, |
754,876 |
|
2,540,279 |
| Tons, .. |
5,316,315 |
| SHIPPING OWNED IN |
|
| Canada, |
230,429 |
| Nova Scotia, |
403,409 |
| New Brunswick, |
309,695 |
| Tons, .. .. |
948,683 |
A BILL
For authorising a Guarantee of Interest
on a Loan to be raised by Canada towards the construction of a Railway connecting
Quebec and Halifax.
Whereas the construction of a Railway, connecting the Port of Riviere du
Loup in the Province of Quebec, with
the line of Railway leading from the
City of Halifax, in the Province of Nova
Scotia, at or near the Town of Truro, in
a line and on conditions approved by one
of Her Majesty's Principal Secretaries of
State, would conduce to the welfare of
Canada, and promote the interests of the
British Empire: And whereas it would
greatly facilitate the construction of that
Railway (in this Act referred to as the
Railway,) if payment of interest on part
of the money required to be raised for
the same, were guaranteed under the
authority of Parliament ;—
Be it therefore enacted by the Queen's Most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice
and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament
assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follow: —
1. Subject to the provisions of this
Act, the Commissioners of Her Majesty's
Treasury in guarantee, in such manner
and form as they think fit, payment of
interest at a rate not exceeding four per
centum per annum on any principal money
not exceeding the sum of Three Million
Pounds Sterling,. to be raised by way of
Loan by the Government of Canada, for
the purpose of the construction of the
Railway ; and the Commissioners of Her
Majesty's Treasury may from time to time
cause to be issued out of the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom, or the growing
produce thereof, any money required for giving effect to such guaantee.
2. The Commissioners of Her Majesty's Treasury shall not give any guarantee under
this Act unless and until an
Act of the Parliament of Canada has
been passed, within two years after the
union of Canada under the British North
American Act, 1867, providing, to the
satisfaction of one of Her Majesty's Principal Secretaries of Sate, as follows: —
1. For the construction of the Railway ;
2. For the use of the Railway at all
times for her Majesty's Military and other services ; nor unless and until the line
in which the Railway is to be constructed has been approved by one of Her Majesty's
Principal Secretaries of State.
3. The Commissioners of Her Majes-
Treasury shall not give any guarantee under this Act unless and until an Act of Parliament
of Canada has been passed, providing, to the satisfaction of the Commissioners of
Her Majesty's Treasury, as follows :—
1. For the raising, appropriation,
and expenditure for the purpose of the construction of the Railway, of a Loan not
exceeding Three Million Pounds Sterling, bearing interest at a rate not exceeding
four per centum per annum :
2. For charging the Consolidated
Revenue Fund of Canada with the principal and interest of the Loan immediately after
the charges specifically made thereon by the British North American Act, 1867 :
3. For the payment by the Government of Canada, by way of Sinking Fund, of an annual
sum at the rate of one per centum per annum on the entire amount of principal money
whereon interest is guaranteed, to be remitted to the Commissioners of Her Majesty's
Treasury, by equal half- yearly payments, in such manner as they from time to time
direct, and to be invested and accumulated under their direction in the names of four
Trustees, nominated from time to time, two by the Comis sioners of Her Majesty's Treasury,
and two by the Government of Canada ; such Sinking Fund and its accumulations to be
applied under
the direction of the Commissioners of Her Majesty's Treasury in discharge of principal
money whereon interest is guaranteed :
6. For continuance of the Sinking Fund until all principal and interest of the loan,
and all sums issued out of the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom under this
Act, ad all interest thereon, are fully discharged, or until the Sink- sing Fund and
Its accumulations are adequate to discharge so much thereof as remains undischarged
:
7. For the raising by the Government of Canada (without
guarantee by the Commissioners of Her Majesty's
Treasury) of all such money
(if any) beyond the sum of
Three Million Pounds Sterling, as, in the opinion of one
one of her Majesty's Principal
Secretaries of State, will be
requisite for the construction
of the Railway, and for charging the Consolidated Revenue
Fund of Canada with the money so raised, and interest, immediately after the charges
made thereon, in pursuance of the foregoing provisions of this section.
4. There shall be laid before both
Houses of Parliament, within fourteen
days next after the beginning of every
Session, a statement and account showing what has been done from time to time in execution
or pursuance of this Act, by or under the direction of the Commissioners of Her Majesty's
Treasury, and one of Her Majesty's Principal Secretaries of State, and the Parliament
and Government of Canada.
5. This Act may be cited as " The
Canada Railway Loan Act, 1867."
After several protracted negotiations
with the Secretary of Stae for the Colonies, and gentlemen connected with the Treasury
Department, and furnishing
211 DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1867
description, Her Majesty's Government
agreed to ask Parliament for a guarantee
of Three Millions Sterling, to build the
Inter-Colonial Railway.
Considerable difficulty arose with regard to the investment of the Sinking
Fund, and the legislation required by
Canada previous to the attaching of the
guarantee. The Treasury Department
required that Canada should provide by
special law for raising the necessary
Revenue to defray the Interest on the
Loan before any guarantee should be
made, and that the Sinking Fund should
be invested in British funds. After a
series of interviews they were induced
to abandon their first condition as to
proof of the Revenue required to meet
the Loan, and also to agree to the proposal of the Delegates, that the Sinking
Fund should be invested in Colonial or
other Securities at the option of Canada.
We cannot close this Report without
expressing our obligations to the Right
Honorable the Earl of Carnarvon for the
interest he evinced on our behalf, and for
the patient manner in which he discussed the different questions that were
raised during the progress of our deliberations, and for his energy and persever-
ance in carrying the Act of Union through
the House of Lords, and to the Duke of
Buckingham and Chandos for the hearty
manner in which he entered into the
question of guarantee, and for his strenuous exertions to induce the Treasury
Department to accede to the proposition
we made for securing the money, and
for successfully carrying the Bill for the
guarantee through the House of Lords;
and to the Right Honorable Mr. Adderley
for the ability he displayed in carrying
the Act of Union and the guarantee
through the House of Commons.
We also desire to express our great
obligations to the Right Honorable Edward Cardwell, and to the Right Honorable Mr.
Gladstone, Mr. Watkins, and
other Members of the opposition, for the
cheerful and efficient aid they rendered
in carrying the measure.
P. MITCHELL,
S. L. TILLEY,
CHARLES FISHER,
ROBT. D. WILMOT,
E. B. CHANDLER,
J. M. JOHNSON.
To His Excellency Major General C. HAS-
TINGS DOYLE, Administrator of the
Government, &c., &c., &c.
This individual participated in:
