Progress was reported.
Some conversation ensued on the propriety of allowing the Commissioners to assess
certain parties to carry on the work, and on the appointment of the Commissioners
by Government rather than by parties interested in the adjoining marshes ; after which
the Bill passed by striking out the fourth section.
Resolved—That an humble address be presented to His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor,
praying that His Excellency may cause to be laid before this House, during the present
Session, or at the next General Session of the Legislature, a full and complete statement
in writing, from the several Sheriffs of the different Counties of this Province,
and from the Sheriff of the City and County of Saint John, shewing the number of persons
which have, during the years 1862, 1863 and 1864, been in the actual custody, or even
on the limits, of the Gaol of such Sheriffs respectively, upon civil process issued
out of any Court in the Province, (without giving the names of such persons) and shewing
the amount in each case, for which each party was, or still remains so confined, distinguishing
the debt or damages from the costs, and whether upon mesne or final process ; and
also shewing the cases in which the parties have been discharged during that time
from such confinement, and by what means, or by whose order they became so discharged,
and shewing the number of days each person remained in such confinement, and such
statement to shew also the cases in which parties still remain, and the number of
days they have been respectively in such custody.
Progress was reported.
On motion of Mr. Connell the House
went into the consideration of his
RESOLUTION RELATING T0 THE MILITIA.
Mr. CONNELL —This is a matter of the
highest importance to the interests of this
Province. I have not brought forward
this resolution for the purpose of making
a speech, or of hearing the sound of my
own voice or that I expect the result to
has any influence on my position in this
House or before the country. But I introduce it that it may go abroad. and that
the Mother country may know what our
position and feelings are on this great
subject. If the granting of a small sum
of money for Militia purposes, to be wasted
in impracticable experiments, is to be the
extent of the proof of our loyalty, I think
the sooner we cease to boast of it the better. The portion of that country where I
reside, and which I represent, would be
the first to feel the effect of any troubles
which might arise with the United States.
Not long since I was present at a review
of the Volunteers, at which the Commander-in-Chief of this Province, after
praising the men for the efficiency shown
in the use of their arms and in general
drill, warned them that they would be the
first that would be called on in case of
difficulty to defend their homes. It is
because of this fact that I feel a deep interest in this matter. In twenty- four
hours after war broke out, that whole
section of country would be a scene of
devastation, and what power have we to
prevent it. It has been remarked to me
by hon members, since I gave notice of
this motion, that it looks like dictating to
the British Government what they should
do. It does not do so, but I think it right
they should know our position, what we
intend to do, and what we expect of them.
In looking to the mesage laid before this
House on the state of the Militia in New
Brunswick. I, and in a dispatch received
from Mr. Cardwell, dated 1st Oct., 1864,
the statement "that the progress of the
Militia in New Brunswick does not at
present in any degree correspond with the
spirit of patriotism and spirit of loyalty
by which the inhabitants are known to be
animated, " and again, "the Militia exists chiefly on paper, being undrilled, and
meeting for muster (only) one day in a
year, whilst the Volunteers, who form
an integral part of the Militia though
they drill more frequently, number only
1,738." And he closes by saying: " I
should sincerely rejoice to hear from you
that, on the re- assembling of the Legislature, your advisers will be prepared to
take
effective measures for remedying a state
of things, so little suited to the importance
of the subject. and corresponding so little
with the well known spirit of the Province. " Are we to be told that the British
Government is not urging us to do something in this branch of the public service?
Of what advantage will be the small
amount we grant in case we are attacked;
could it enable us to defend ourselves,
and what use would be our present Militia organization in such a case? Might
we not just as well lie down and submit
at once? It is certain we are not in a
position to make the first attempt at resistance. We need only refer to the report
of Colonel Jervoia to see in what position
we stand. What does he say? He informs the British Government that it
would be utterly useless to go to the expense of erecting fortifications on the
Canada boundary, for their defence, far
West of Montreal. If this be true of
Canada. how does it apply here? We are
perfectly open and defenceless; we have
no fortifications, and what is worse, we
have no money to give any effectual aid
to the British Government in erecting
them. And then as to the troops: we are
told distinctly, that in case of war all the
available forces the Government could
spare would be put on board war vessels
and sent to the cities on the seaboard of
the neighbouring States. From this it is
evident that we are to be left in a large
measure to ourselves . His Excellency, in
a despatch on page 41 of the Journals,
dated 21st Nov., 1864, says : " I regret to
perceive that Her Majesty' s Government
are dissatisfied with the progress which
has ben made towards the re-organization of the Provincial Militia." In speaking of
the efficiency of Officers, he says:
" The Head Quarters Staff was in a by
no means efficient state; the officers upon
it have long held their posts, and being
but imperfectly acquainted with modern
systems of drill and organization. " In
the same dispatch he goes on further to
say that " since the passage of that Act,
I can truly say that my attention to the
condition of the Militia. and my endeavors
to carry out its re-organization to the
furthest extent which the means at my
disposal permitted, have been unremitting." I acquiesce in that, for it is a fact
;
but His Excellency goes on further to say
on page 44 : " I perceive that you labor
under a mistaken impression, in supposing
that the sum annually allotted d to the
Militia is fixed in the Militia Law. It is
annually voted by the Legislature, and
may be indefinitely diminished or increased. The grant is always opposed, and
opposed with energy. * * * It is my
intention to propose to my advisers before
the next meeting of the Provincial Parliament a scheme, the details of which I
hope shortly to lay before you, and which
will have for its object the training of a
certain portion of the Militia for several
consecutive days in each year." From
this it would seem that the Commander-
in-Chief evinces a greater interest in the
matter of defence than either his advisers
or the people. I do not think, however,
that the people are so much to blame. I
believe that seven-eighths of them want
to know what the British Government intend to do; to know if it is their intention
68 DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1865.
to go on and erect foritications in this
Province. The Government of Canada have, I think, acted wisely; they have sent home
delegates to see Her Majesty's advisers face to face, and there tell them what they
are prepared to do if England will aid the. The people of Canada have granted a million
of dollars to millitary purposes, to be used, in case an arrangement can be made with
the British Government on fair and equal principles. What is our Government doing?
They propose a grant of $30,000 to show their loyalty. I believe if the British Government
saw it was for the interests of the people of this Province, they would guarantee
the loan to carry on the fortifications and other necessary works. They know there
is no danger of our coming into contact with the United States by our own actions.
What was the case in the
Trent affair? Who were looked upon as responsible for the depredations of the
Alabama? What were the feellings of the North towards England on account of her early recognition
of the South as belligerents? These were all Imperial interests, and out of difficulties
like these war often comes. If, then, to defend these interests, it is found necessary
to have fortifications erected in our Province, is it not reasonable that they should
guarantee the funds for carrying on the work? I are not at issue with this Government
on the appropriation of $30,000 for Militia purposes ; but I do believe that sum could
be best employed in bringing the Staff, the Militia officers, into an efficient state,
all over the Province for a day or three days in a year, with no beneficial result.
Look at the case in the States. When the war broke out had they any effective organization
out of which to make their armies? they had not at least in Maine, and where were
men ever found who more nobly distinguished themselves ? If this amount is to be spent
under the system heretofore puraued, I think we might as well throw the money into
the river. When we look back on the war in the United States, which is just now subsiding,
when we remember that one month before the firing of the first gun at Fort Sumpter,
all was peace and quiet ; who did, who could have imagined, what scenes of devastation
and woe, what rivers of blood, what widows and orphans would so soon be developed
and brought about, as have been since then. And what might be the case here? In arriving
at an opinion it may be well to consider the position of affairs on this continent
and by the ideas of others arrive at conclusions with respect to ourselves. The London
Morning Advertiser of April 21st, contains the following:— " On receipt of the news of the fall of Richmond,
Louis Mapoleon proposed to Lord Cowley that England and France should, by a treaty
offensive and defensive, make common cause against the United States of America ;
that in the event of Canada being attacked by them, France should assist England with
all her land and sea forces ; and that in the event of the United States openly or
covertly attacking the Emperor Maximilian or in anywise endangering his throne, England
should, in conjunction with France, defend Maximilian." There are rumours too of expeditions
to Mexico, and that the Mexican President Juarex is acting offensive agains France.
We are told that " President Juarez of the Mexican Republic, has issued letters of
marque for reprisals against French commerce." Now what will be the natural result
of this ?
Is it not collision with France? And then from Boston we learn that, "The Mexican
emigration excitement increases ; the officers fro the enrolment are unable to accommodate
applicants ; two more offices are to be opened. It is said that the West has subscribed
large sums of money for the enterprise ; 26,000 men are to be raised there." And again,
the next day we are told that in New York, " A recruiting office was opened for Mexican
soldiers ; there was quite a rush to the office all day, and the large number of 4555
men were recruited." The excitement on this subject has even shown itself in the Capital,
for we hear that, "A Mexican emigration expedition has just been organized in Washington.
A general eagerness to join it is manifested. A liberal bounty in gold is offered
to able bodied emigrants." Now, when we hear of these kind of things going on, we
may very naturally look for results that will affect us sooner or later.
Hon. Mr. SMITH.—Is it not desirable then that we should be in a state of defence ?
Mr. CONNELL.—Exactly so, and if the Government had brought down a resolution that would have
proved for the good of the country, I should have given them my support, and will
now, if they do as they have done in Canada. This is not a matter of pounds, abillinga
and pence, but one of the greatest importance that comes before this House. I think
if the Government were to enter into communication with the British Government, and
show them our willingness to do all we can for ourselves, and that in the matter of
defence we desired to meet their just wishes it would result in good. This is what
I desire, and if followed out would show that we have some gratitude for the blessings
conferred on us in the past, not by words only, or bare expressions of loyalty, but
by such action as coming from the highest authority of the Province, will carry wright
with it. But instead of this, what is proposed to be done? I see by a report in the
Journals of information forwarded to the Colonial Secretary, respecting our future
action, it is proposed to establish a camp of Instruction, where men who have been
drafted from the different parts of the Province, are to be drilled for twenty-eight
days in each year ; and that a resolution has been agreed to by the Military commission
to call out the balance of the Militia force of the Province for three day's drill,
and one day inspection in each year, and to embrace all the male inhabitants between
the ages of 16 and 60. Of course, in view of the present emigration to Mexico, this
plan will be very acceptable. Our young men who volunteer to come forward and get
this instruction, will be the ones most likely to go off and be accepted to join the
Mexican expedition. But I should like to see where the people have mede a move in
this matter. The only ones I ace, who show any activity, are the officers who are
to get pay for these twenty-eight days drill. I am not a military man, I never have
been, but if anything is to be done in this matter I am willing to contrbute my quota
forwards furthering its interest ; but this mode of spending money to fit men to
join the Mecican expedition is what I don't agree with. In Canada, where they have
a Military School, a great complaint has been that some of the officers when frilled
went off to the American war, and what reason have we to suppose that the same will
not be the case here. Yet, notwithstanding all the rumours that are afloat, I have
not much
alarm that we shall be invaded. I am
willing to go with the Government if they wil promise to give a reasonable sum to
the training of officers, while they are carrying on negociations with the British
Government.
Hon. Mr. ANGLIN.—Does the hon.
member mean to say that the complaint in Canada has been that the trained officers
have gone to the American war, and now wants this amount spent int he same way to
qualify men for the Mexican expedition ?
Mr. CONNELL—I said they made complaint of this, but I have no fear for it here. I think that
those who qualify themselves would have too much patriotism to allow anything of the
kind to occur I speak with regard to the resolution adopted by the Military commission.
The people of England are interested in this matter ; the strong feeling there is
that these Colonies should bear the expence of erecting the fortifloatious for defence.
There are some of all shades of politics who think we are a burden to them. When we
read of a member of the House of Commons rising in his place and saying that no ministry
could stand who would make a grant for Military purposes in these Colonies ; and that
the Colonial Secretary stands up and affirms it ; I say when we see this, we must
be convinced that the feeling of dissatisfaction in England is gaining ground with
regard to these Provinces. I said we are often enabled to arrive at results by hearing
the opinions of others, and I will now read an extract from the London
Times, a very high authority, on the defences of Canada :—
"The grant of 50,000 for the defence of Quebec is the opening of a question as various
in its incidents and doubtful in its issues as if the armies had already appreared
before that fortress, shots had been exchanged, and new positions taken. It already
transpires that we are expected to do a great deal more, and that what the Canadians
do themselves, as their side of the bargain, if a bargain there be, is to be done
with money borrowed on the credit of the Empire—that is of the British Treasury —as
being for Imperial purposes. As even the interest of this loan would have to be paid
by fresh duties upon imports, chiefly from this country, it would amount to our paying,
in one shape or another, every sixpence of the cost. From speeches in the Canadian
Legislature it appears to be thought entirely our affair, in so much that it is England,
her extravagant pretensions, her infatuated pride, and her quarrelsome temper, that
have produced the apprehension of an American invasion. The Canadian meanwhile are
most creditably beforehand with us in a just anxiety to know how we are to stand,
who is to do it all, who is to pay, and how the defences is to be conducted A deputation
of the most distinguished men in the Province is on its way to this country, and we
can only regret the deputation does not represent all out Provinces, or even one of
those accessible at all seasons to our fleets and armies. The Maritime Provinces we
can reach at all times, and one of them contain the only possible basis of operations
we possess in that part of the world, indifferently provided a sit appears to be
for that purpose. But these Maritime Province are just those that wish to nave nothing
to say to Canada or to the Empire at his particular crisis, unless, indeed, we would
be so obliging as to finish for them their Intercolonial Railway
DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1865. 69
from Halifax to Quebec. The deputation,
however, is purely Canadian. and it has
come to obtain guarantees of political and
commercial value. We cannot think the
era of its arrival is so improper a tim to
re-open the question as far as the question is still open, and to warn those whom
it may concern against rash concessions
and precipitate pledges. Wa hail, then the
opportunity which now offers for asking
some light on these questions. The deputation asks for light, and will be ready
to give some in return.
" In the first place, what is that we are
to defend—a soil or a people? All the
sentiment of the question goes for the
people. In these days territorial pride is
renounced, and people are cared for. Our
Imperial relations are with the inhabitants. But by far the greater part of the
Colonists themselves are far away from
Quebec, utterly out of our reach. and absolutely dependent on themselves for independence.
Mr. Laird, of course, would
be glad to receive an order to build
twenty gunboats. and place them on any
lake we pleased to mention—Victoria
Nyznsa if required—and no doubt he
would fulfill the order, barring the interference of Governments or the contingencies
of war. But colonial audacity itself
does not venture thus far to invite our
engineers higher up than Quebec, and th'l
merest glance at the great lakes is enough
to show that we cannot go there. So by
far the greater part of the people are out
of the reach of our defences and could
hardly obtain the least benefit from them.
But it is even a more serious consideration that another large portion of the
(Colonists does not ask for our assistance,
or show any anxiety about the matter.
The Maritime Provinces, in declining to
join the Confederation, thereby indicate,
what had been fully anticipated, that they
will not commit themselves to any plan of
defence or any policy whatever. They
will not entangle themselves before their
time in either Colonial or Imperial quarrels. Commercially they have much more
to do with the States than with their own
fellow-Colonists, and they would rather be
friends with both, if it be possible. Here,
then, is our case as regards the people.
Those whom we could defend do not want
our defence; and the greater part of the
rest are utterly out of our reach. England
is asked, in the first instance to strengthen
Quebec, chiefly by works on the opposite
point, which happens to command it. We
have said above how little way that will
go. Perhaps, the deputation will be able to say more in favor of this outlay; but
with their own shore of the river above Montreal, and with half lake Ontario, we cannot
see why an obstruction at Quebec should be so serious an inconvenience to the Americans.
"If, however, it be not the soil, or a fortress , or a river, that is to be defended,
but a people, then, whether we can reach them or not, and whether they choose to be
defended or not, we really do not see why they should not defend themselves on their
own frontier and their own soil. By all ordinary estimates they ought to be able to
tun out 400,000 armed men, which would probably ge as great a force as the Americans
could bring against them for some time to come. Of course we suppose them to be in
earnest. The Canadians have only to let it be known that they are really in earnest,
and we are disposed to hope they will have no occasion for our aid. As to the plan
and manner of that aid there cannot be two opinions. Whatever earthworks we make at
Quebec we shall be
cut off from that place for many months
of the year. Even the Railway recomended by General Peel is too near the
States to he depended on. All that we
can do in the event of war is against the
ports on the shipping of the foe. It is a
weary work, we know, and England is the
very last nation in the world to hint at
such horrors before their time; but we
are obliged to mention it, for it is all we
can do. Soldiers of course we should
require, for we could not attempt the destruction of an American dockyard or arsenal
without having a large force ready
to land if necessary; and the twenty or
thirty thousand we could keep on hand
for such purposes would be much better
employed on that kind of service than
five hundred miles up the St. Lawrence.
But we should want men elsewhere. So
far, then, as regards the frontier and the
soil, this must be left to the people, and
they are safe enough if they are ready to
defend their hearths resolutely. They
are as good men as the Americans; better, they often say. The Americans boast
to have enlisted more than 40,000 Canadians into the Federal army, so there can
be no question as to the stuff they would
have to deal with. It only rests with
themselves to say to whom whom they will be-
long."
AFTERNOON SESSION—2.30 P.M.
Mr. CONNELL resumed.—From this extract we see what is the feeling of the
people of England with regard to us. In
case of difficulties arising the soldiers
would be sent to the seaports of the enemy rather than to our immediate assistance.
But they not only go thus far;
there is evidently a desire in the minds of
many that we should be cut off from all
connection with England. Agentleman
of distinguished abilities, A. Allison, Esq,
author of the Philosophy and History of
Civilization, has recently issued a
pamphlet on the Independence of Canada, in
which he says :—
"I am of opinion that England should
not only interfere with the civil war now
raging in America, but that she should
retire altogether from the North American
Continent by declaring Canada an independent state. So long as Canada belongs
to us we hold out a bait to the United
States to go to war with us with a view to
its annexation. That being so, it is manifestly the interest both of England and
Canada to separate. The press and all
our leading statesmen are unanimous in
expressing their readiness to give up Canada if the Canadians themselves are willing
to accept independence, and if these
liberal professions on our part are sincere
there will be no difficulty in effecting that
object.
"If Canada should prefer dependence,
that would be no reason why we we should
not make her independent. We must
look to our own interest as well as to the
interests of others, and if it can be shown
that it is the interest of all parties that
Canada be independent, we ought not to
hesitate in making her so even although
she should object to it. Two great nations like England and the United States
meet each other in every quarter of the
globe, and all the disputes which are ever
occurring between them must eventually
be settled on Canadian ground. But let
Canada be an independent state and she
wtll be a neutral power in the event of a
war breaking out. Let this view of the
question be clearly explained to the Ca-
nadians in a despatch properly drawn up from the Foreign Office, and the object
tions which they have hitherto had to independence will be removed."
"Now is the time for us to make up our minds to give up Canada, for that step will
not only save us a world fo money for the armaments which are now called for, but
it will prevent the danger of war with the united States. To postpone the consideration
of this important question until after we have spent the money, or until we have drifted
so far into war that it is impossible to give up Canada consistent with honor, would
be the height of folly. I trust therefore that this important question will be taken
up at once with a view to its immediate settlement."
I make this quotation to show that the attention of public men is being called to
this matter, and stirring up their minds to consider the result, and so far do they
go as to speak of cutting the Colonies off altogether! There must be some cause for
this, or it would not be spoken of.
Hon. Mr. ANGLIN.— I beg the hon. member's pardon, but I have in my hand a quotation from the London
Times, which he considers so good an authority, and as I may have to send it away in a
few minutes, I wish to read—
Mr. CONNELL.— I wish to go on, and if the hon. member is anxious to read it he can do so after
I am done. I was about to say that with this writer, I think that the time has arrived
hat something should be done. Canada is taking up the matter in earnest, and why should
we be left behind? We are told that in case of war the only protection we should be
likely to receive would be such relief as a man-of-war could afford at Halifax, or
Quebec. If this is the case it is fully for us to devote $30,000 to the Militia purposes;
it would be much better to lay it out on the public roads I hope, however, that whatever
amount is granted it will be appropriate in such a way as will be of real benefit
to the country. And now in closing, I will refer the hon. members of this House to
a distinguished authority—a name known throughout the world—Sir. F. Williams, of Kars;
a gentleman, who, holding a seat in the English Parliament, and having performed actions
in the field as great as any recorded in modern times, at once a soldier and a politician,
may be regarded as good authority in military and legislative matters. In an address
delivered by him in Toronto, he said:—
"The principal object of my visit to this Western district was to inspect the Military
Schools in Toronto and in Hamilton, and I regret a similar institution intended for
London is not yet organized. It would be impossible to conduct these establishments
without drill-shed, and I was much gratified in seeing the spacious edifices which
Toronto and Hamilton have recently erected. they do thee two cities great honour and
credit. Never was money better spent.
When you hear and read the various conflicting opinions daily expressed as to the
defences and armaments which are proposed for the safety of these great Provinces,
you will call to mind former similar discussion as regards the defence of the United
Kingdom - begun by the famous letter of the Duke of Wellington to Sir John Burgoyne.
In the midst of that controversy and apparent indecision, the Imperial Government
steadily matured its plans; and England with its present defensive works and 170,000
volunteers is no long menaced with invasion. It is my present prayer and lively hope
that Great Britain and Canada will show equal wisdom and decision in the proposed
70 DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1865.
works and organization which are intended to guard your frontiers, and to enable
you to rally and defend your homes in
future times. And when I express an
opinion as to the absence of danger at the
present montent, I counsel you not to
neglect any department of the military
art. In other words, I firmly believe that
every national born soldier in the American army yearns for his home and the delights
to be found there, and that he has
no wish, after having vindicated the
honour of his own country, to carry the
horrors of war into Canada. Yet, as time
passes, complications may arise, and now
is the moment to guard against future
contingencies. I address these friendly
admonition to this city, the capital of that
portion of the Empire which lies farthest
from the ocean."
Here is the opinion of a gentleman who
was born among us, and who has raised
himself by his great abilities and untiring
energy to a proud position as a soldier
and a statesman. He is Commander-in-
Chief of the Forces of British North America. I feel this is no idle matter. It requires
that some action should be had
upon it. As I said at the first, I do not
speak for the love of hearing myself, but
because the people in that part of the
country which I represent are anxious to
know. and from their position should
know, whether in case of difficulty they
would be defended by England, or left to
themselves .
Hon . Mr. SMITH.—As the hour has
come whether should go into the consideration of the Supplies. I think it would
be perhaps better to adjourn this debate,
and go on with the order of the day ; the
discussion can be resumed at any other
time.
Mr. CONNELL.— The Government can
do as they choose in the matter, but I
wish to have a division of the House on
this resolution.
Hon. Mr. SMITH.— The fact is, we don't
want to crush the hon. member down, nor
to prevent him from having every opportunity to express himself on this question,
I only ask the hon. member if he does not
think it would be as well to adjourn the
debate till we get through the Supplies.
Mr. GILBERT.— I have not yet looked
into the resolution. and I think if the hon.
mover will consent, that it would be best
to adjourn the debate.
Mr. CONNELL.—If honorable members
think so, I am quite willing to let the
matter lie over.
At 3 o'clock the House, on motion of
the Hon. Mr. GILLMOR, went into the
further consideration of the
GRANTING OF SUPPLY—MILITARY AND
MILITIA $30,000.
Mr. LINDSAY stated that he thought
this item of Supply was not to be taken
up till the Militia Bill has been laid before the House. He found that although
the late Government had increased the
grant for Militia from $10,000 to $20,000,
yet after that, Mr. Cardwell pronounces
that the Militia exists only on paper.
This Government proceed to add $10,000
more to the grant, and as yet the Bill is
no introduced. He had no objection to
put the whole resources of the country
into the hands of the Government if they
are required, but seeing the low state of
the finances, the large amounts that would
be needed to repair the damage done by
the late freshet to bridges and roads, the
appropriation should not be so much
His Excellency had suggested the idea of
training the officers, so that they could
easily instruct a large body of men when
needed. He thought the plan a good
one, and suggested that the men in the
rural districts could meet in tha evening's
to be instructed in the drill.
Mr. HATHEWAY was surprised and
gratified to hear the very eloquent speech
of the hon. member for Carleton (Mr.
Connell). It would have done honour to
the House of Commons. He thought
there was no necessity to go into the consideration of ths Bill before making the
grant. If the Bill was defeated the
amount would not be issued. He informed the hon. member for Carleton, (Mr. Lindsay)
that the addition of $10,000 to
the grant was not the work of this Government, but of the late one, and, therefore,
they should not be blamed for it.
He believed that if we do our duty, we
need not fear that England will leave us
to the mercy of a foe . When he looked
at what other Sister Colonies were doing
in the matter, he thought it was time we
should do something more than we have
done in the past, and the passing he was
sure was no more than England would
look to us to give.
Mr. McMILLAN said they did not yet
know for what purpose the sum was to be
expended. He understood some great
changes were to be made in the old law,
although what they were, he had not
yet learned. The freedom which England
gave to us was the first step towards the
position we occupy, and we should now be
willing to do something for our own defence, and no longer throw ourselves on
the poor clssaes of England, who are
heavily taxed to support the troops here.
If there was any one thing that should be
under one's eye and mind and Government, it was the Militia of all these Pro
vinces. But the majority of the people
had decided that this was. not to be attained for the present; ; still he was willing
to go to the utmost of the means we
possess in our isolated position to show
our determination do something for
ourselves, and to prove our loyalty to
Great Britain. The principle of the Colonies supporting their own soldiers is becoming
very general. The troops in India are supported there, and in Australia
each soldier receives £40 per year from
the public chest. It was not to be
surprised at that these Colonies should be
asked to do something more than they
have, under these circumstances. He was
willing to go for a large grant for this
purpose, and to show England that we desire our connection with our Mother
Country—our glorious Mother Country— to continue.
Mr. GILBERT moved that the blank be filled with $10,000. The hon. Provincial Secretary had brought
in his budget, but had preserved an absolute silence as to the amount to be expended
for militia purposes.
Mr. GILBERT did not hear him. The House and the people would ask why the Government, knowing,
as he supposed, their strength and the policy they intended to adopt. For this he
was denounced by some of the members of the Government, and treated as though they
desired all connection between them to be severed. But he would not ask why they should
but their hands into the public chest, and take out for militia
purpose a sum three hundred fold more
than former grants . When the hon.
President of the Council had opposed a
former grant he was with him, for he
did the same. He failed to see why it
was necessary for the descendants of
the loyalists, and those who came from
England, Ireland and Scotland, to need
to show their loyalty to the British
throne by voting $30,000 for our defence. Did the people of England doubt
our loyalty? No; there was not a man
in the House of Commons who dared to
stand up in his place and say the people
of New Brunswick are not loyal. This
reason was not given when the grant
for $10,000 was made, and what has occurred since to cause such a change
and to call for such an argument to be
put forward? He thought this Government would not follow in the steps of
the last; but he doubted, if even the late
Government had known the position in
which we are now placed, they would
have increased the expenditure 300 per
cent. This Government. however, knowing the revenue is falling off, and that
they have to come to the House and ask
for extraordinary means in the form of
revenue notes to carry on the public
works, do come and ask us to grant for
militia purposes 300 per cent. on former
grants, or one-twentieth of the whole
revenues of the Province. Was it to
show their loyalty? was it for defence?
Look at our coast. Would the whole
revenue of the. country be sufficient to
defend it? No, it would all be but as a
drop in a bucket. We could not erect
any fortifications that would prove of
any effect. It has been found that no
fortifications can prevent Canada from
invasion from theUnited States; and
how much more applicable the remark
would be to New Brunswick. What
we want is population to bring our our
resources, open up our roads and develop the bone and sinew of the country,
and that would be our best defence.
Canada does not do as we are doing,
but goes to the British government and
says, guarantee us this money. and then
we will go to work and erect our fortifications. Does this Government do
anything of this kind ? Not at all; but
they put their hands in the public purse,
and take $30,000 out of the hard working people of the Province. He was in
favor of a grant of $10,000 to keep up
some organization, to show how many men are really available in case of difficulties
arising, and to drill the officers
so that they may be fitted to command
the men; but. he could not go for $30,000, which was $10,000 beyond what
the late government granted. The Government should first have exhausted all
argument and all diplomacy with the
British Government, before they decided to ask for this sum If they had done
his; if they had told them our position,
tthat revenues were falling off, that
we wanted to extend our public works,
that the roads were in a shocking state,
and the backwoodsmen were crying out
for a little money to keep them passable;
if they had assured them of our continued loyalty, and our readiness in case
of trouble to vote the whole of our revenues for this one purpose of defence,
I do not believe they would have failed,
or that. they would have needed to come
to this House and ask for such a sum
for this purpose.
Hon. Mr. ANGLIN said this Government had only been in power some three
or four weeks, and it was therefore impossible for them to have done what the
DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1865. 71
hon. member suggested. He wished
the hon. member to state distinctly whether he referred in his remarks to the
present or to the late government.
Mr. GILBERT referredt to the present
Government. He knew they had but
lately come into power, but they could
have taken the coming summer to look
into the matter, and do what they could
to secure an arrangement with the Mother Country. It is now a time of peace,
amicable relations are existing between
England the United States, there are no
signs of war or rumours of war, and it
has been distinctly stated that if any difficulties arise they will be such as can
only be settled by diplomacy. There
was a time when forebodings of war
might have taken possession of the
minds of hon. members; the difficulties
with regard to the
Alabama seemed imminent, but that had passed away, and
the feelings of the two countries now
are friendly and amicable. Under these
circumstances he could not see any necessity for the grant to be increased.
He had read the dispatches from Col.
Winter, but he believed if this country
were set right there would be no difficulty . The new militia law, it was said,
was to contain a clause for the men to
be taken and drafted into the militia.
He was sure this would not go down
with the people of this country . He
supposed the grant would pass, but he
did not believe it would be endorsed by
the people of this Province. It might
be all very well to let men see who was
the best marksman by shooting at a
bull's-eye or a target, but the' money
could be expended a| more profitable
manner. He hoped that at any rate arrangements would not be made with an
eye the position a man occupied in
the militia. He did not see why the
money should be taken from the bye-
roads, and he hoped hon. members,
whether they were colonels or lieutenant-colonels, would pause before they
took the funds that should go to this
purpose, and allow it to be blown about
the country with no benefit to any one.
Hon. Mr. SMITH said his hon. colleague seemed to think he was the exponent of the minds and feelings
of the
whole country, and asks what change
has taken place that so much money
should be granted for militia purposes.
Was he not aware of the change? Did
he not know that the country had passed
through a great change within a very
short time? Did he not know that he
had fought through, side by side, with
men he how took to task, a campaign that involved the prosperity or
the destruction and ruin of this country ?
His hon. colleague had remarked that a
change had taken place in his feelings,
and he woul say that he had changed,
that he had felt that the pressure of the
times called for a change. Reference
had been made to those gentlemen who
had gone from Canada to England; and
he would ask: is it their intention to
force upon as a scheme that this country has refused ? When we see how nobly Nova
Scotia has acted in this matter, and at a time when Canada is striving to show that
this country not
willing to do her share toward defence,
he thought. seeing this, that. it was time
to put forth greater exertions than or ever
to vie with our sister Province in showing to England that we still are attached
to her, and are willing to do what we
can to defend her interests if the emergency demands. He believed the people of the
country would uphold the Go
vernment in the course. pursued, and
see that they were acting in the service
of the country, and to show the Mother
Country that we were willing to maintain
ourselves as tin integral portion of the
British empire. He would call the attention of the House to a speech made
by Mr. Fitzgerald in the House of Commons, on the 13th of March, on the grant
of £50,000 for the defences of Quebec.
He said-
"He did not believe there were the
men in the House or in this countr who
would say that they would gravely determine to abandon the Canadas to their
own defence to lend them no assistance,
to withdraw our troops for fear they
should be defended or taken prisoners of
war. He did not believe there was a
single man in the House out of it who
would assent to a course so disastrous
and so disgraceful to the British name.
His belief was that if Canada
were independent to-morrow she would
run not the slightest danger of a contest.
There were impediments, financial, industrial and political, which would interfere
with any project on the part of
the American Govt. for annexing Canada. His belief was that they would be
content to see the colony, if independent. growing up side by side with them.
She was united to this country, and
wished to remain so."
Another gentleman, Mr. W. E. Forster,
also said:
" There was a question raised as to the
respective shares of expense to be borne
by this country (Great Britain) and by
Canada, for defending the latter. Into
that question he was not disposed to enter, because the principle was becoming
every day more established that the relations between this country and the Colonies
of British North America was very
much on the basis of a defensive alliance
between two self-goverining communities
united together by an allegiance to one
legitimate sovereign. Therefore we had
a right to call on the North American
Colonies by organization and union to assist in their mm defence, and to prove
their patriotism by a willing contribution
of money and men."
Mr. Cardwell, the Secretary of State
for the Colonies, in speaking of what the
Government proposed to do, said: -
" The report laid on the table (that of
Col. Jarvis on the defenses ot Canada)
points to the fortifications of Montreal
and Quebec, positions of the greatest importance for the defence of Canada. The
defence of Quebec we engage to undertake ; the defence of Montreal we called
on the colony to undertake. Then armament of both we are willing to undertake,
so that the division of expense will be
about two-fifths to the mother country and
three-fifths to the Colony. * * * *
As long as Canada made no exertions,
and showed no readiness to prepare for
her own defence, we felt it would be
wrong in us (the Government) to come to
the House, and ask for Imperial money to
defend Canada; but the moment that
spirit was shown which was manifeseed
in the autumn of last year, it became our
duty to come and ask the House of Commons to enable us to give assistance to
Canada. * * * A war with Canada
is a war with England. The Imperial
forces will be brought to the aid of Canada, and wherever it will be most effective
in destroying the power of the enemy,
there will the Imperial power be exercised."
When we seee that this the spirit of the
British Government, and the despatches
which have passed; when we find that it
wwa the men who favored Confederation
and who stated that we were not doing
what we ought to do In this matter, who
virtually pressed upon the British Government the necessity of urging us to do
more in our own defence: he said when
we see all this, and that England is willing to help us in the hour of our necessity,
they should be willing to pass such a
sum as this for the Militia. If this were
done. and England saw we were in earnest, he had no doubt but that a much
larger sum than ever before would be expended on fortifications, although they
already spent for Military purposes in this
Province over $100,000 a year. His hon.
colleague spoke of the cry of the backwoodsman; he wished his hon friend to
know that he had a heart to feel for the
back-woodsman too, and he knew that
money was needed for the bye roads, but
he would tell his hon. friend that the backwoodsman could tell what was bunkum
and what was not. Looking at surrounding circumstances he was aura that if they
did not pass the grant they would not be
doing their duty.
Mr. MCMILLAN said it seemed that the
reason why the hon. President of the
Council had changed his opinions and military feeling from nothing to $30,000 was
that we had had an election. He thought
it must have been something outside of
the British Government. Was it on account of them that fears arose ? Is not
our position as amicable now as it was
when his hon. friend opposed any grant
to the Militia. The hon. President of the
Council had spoken of bunkum in connection with the bye-roads; did not he
last year ask for $10,000 to be granted to
bye-road? Was that bunkum? There
certainly was not the same hostile feeling
evinced now as last Session when the
grant was but $20,000.
Mr. McCLELLAN quite agreed with the
hon. member for Westmorland, (Mr. Gilbert), that this sum of money could be
used for a better purpose than this. But
then the hon. member did not know how
soon he might be in a Government, and
find that from outside influence he might
be driven to go for just such grants, in
opposition to his wishes, and against his
own ideas of what was right. His Excellency, in one of his despatches, had
said that the money appropriated to Militia purposes was not fixed by law, but
annually voted by the House, although
not without opposition. The grant will
be voted now, no doubt without any difficulty. seeing the great changes that have
taken place. He agreed with the hon.
member for Carleton that the bill should
have been laid before the House before
passing the grant. The hon. President
of the Council had said that the scheme
of which he was opposed, was likely to
enslave the country. It is well that they
make the first step, the first concession
to the principles upheld by those who favored it, namely. the policy of putting
ourselves in a better state of defence. It
is said that on account of what they are
doing in Canada a large grant is to be
made. This is the cause, the pressure
from abroad and from the Home Government, that causes them to grant such a
large sum in opposition to their own feelings in the matter. It is a source of congratulation
to the friends of Confederation, that if such a change comes over the
Government on the great ground-work of
the scheme that a further change may
ensure; and he was from the
speeches he had heard to-day, that this
72 DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1865.
was but the beginning of the end. It
was chiefly laid down during the late campaign that no large sums should be granted
for this purpose, as insignificance was our best defence. While he belonged to as
loyal a section of the Province as any, he would ask, what could $30,000 do for our
defence? Before entering into this matter the Hill should have been laid before the
House, but not till that moment had it been laid on his desk. He held that the calling
of the people out for their yearly inspection, was a waste of time and money.
Hon. Mr. Gillmor said it was intended to change that.
Mr. McClellan.—That was just what
he wanted to see the Bill ; for, he certainly
was not in favor of such a scheme being
carried out or retained in the country,
aithough he considered the putting down
of a grant of $30,000 for Militia purposes
as a concession to the principle of Confederation ; yet he thought it was ill-timed,
as we were not in a position to provide
for ourselves. Here there is little or
nothing to defend. If the Government
expect an invasion, it must be from the
States ; and he would ask what could we
do against their great armies? I do not
wish the House to understand that I am
opposed to this grant, for I think that the
provision for military defence should be
the first object of the country, but 1 am
opposed to filling up the blank with any
such sum as that named.
Hon. Mr. Wilmot said he was against
the abolition of the old Militia law. If a
Colony was willing to assist in its own
defence, it was valuable to the Empire ;
but if it was not willing, it became only a
burden. He was one of those who had
the honor to be a private in the Aroostook
war, and he remembered, when a little
boy, in the war of 1812, when the 104th
regiment was raised in this Province.
There was no talk about Confederation
then, although the men went and fought
in Canada as bravely as any there. It
might be true that our weakness was our
best strength ; but in case of extremity,
he was sure the people would be willing
to do what they could, and when the paltry sum of $30,000 is asked for, the majority
of the Province and of hon. members on the floors of the House would
uphold it.
Mr. L. P. W. DESBRISAY, after some
introductory remarks on Confederation in
reply to those from other members, said .
He was surprised to hear the hon. member for Westmorland ask what great
change had transpired. He had gone
through a campaign in an adjoining County to his own, and he ought to know what
had transpired. In Nova Scotia they
have given $81,000 for Militia purposes,
and he was sorry-this Government had
not been able to put down pound for
pound for our Sister Province, and to
stop the assertion put forth that we are
not as loyal as she. With regard to the
statement put forth as to the feelings of
the people of England being for cutting
us off, those who talk in this way are a
people who began cutting us off by imposing upon us with regard to our lumber ; they
have no care for the greatness
the country, save to turn it into a
workshop. And there was one thing,
that he felt our Government did not do
their duty to the English Government at
the time of the Trent affair. When they
sent out regiments of soldiers, and the best blood of the country too, to provide
for our defence, our Government should have taken them by the hand and passed them
through the Province free of charge.
He was certain we could have passed
them through at one-third less than what it did cost the Imperial Government. I am
sorry to see the grant so small, as I think we should make it in accordance with the
benefits we receive from the protection of England, although he was sure the feeling
there is such that whether we spend $300 or $30,000, they will continue to protect
us.
Mr. Needham had somewhere read that it was excellent to have the strength of giants,
but tyrannous to use it. He thought they could afford to be easy with the poor unfortunates
who were left out. He was quite willing they should glory in what they could, even
in being beaten. He was not going to vote for the $30,000, to show England that we
are loyal, but because the Government informs the House that it is necessary for
the wants of the country. As to letting England know we are loyal, it is what she
knew long ago. When the old 104th Regiment was raised, and they went to Canada, they
did not go to fight for this country, but to defend the flag. We once voted every
shilling out of the Treasury in a time of danger ; and what for? To defend the flag.
They know we are loyal ; but the Government say they want it : therefore I am willing
they should ; but if they do not use it right, he would call them to account for
it. He did not believe we are called on to defend ourselves : for we are an integral
part of the empire. If England needs to build fortifications on every headland on
our shores, or elsewhere, all we are called on to do is provide well for our militia.
The hon. member for Westmorland (Mr. Gilbert) had said, no man dare stand up in the
House of Commons and say we are disloyal. Why? where was Sam Slick, or in other words,
where was Judge Halliburton? He charged us with disloyalty, and Nova Scotia too ;
and no man there to contradict him. He wished he had been there, Sam Slick wouldn't
have written any more novels. With regard to insignificance being our best defence,
it was sad to admit it- but true. He did not believe in the United States coming
to swallow us up : for the fact was, the war there was dead, and here confederation
was dead ; they both died together, only one died a little while before the other,
that was all ; as to the latter he hoped never to see the ghost of it again. The
ghost of it was bad enough, but he hoped that it would never come back ; if it did
he hoped the Lord in His infinite mercy would take him away from here.
Mr. Thompson did not know what this $30,000 would do, but he thought the House should
study by putting ourselves in a proper state of defence, to preserve the connection
with the Mother Country. Those who talked in the House of Commons about our going
off from them were only radicals. We never hear of men like Lord Palmerston making
use of such expressions, but that the country might be preserved in its integrity.
This is as much a part of the country as the County of Antrim, where he came from.
He should support the grant, as he believed it was required.
Hon. Mr. ALLEN reviewed the various
objections that had been made against the grant, exposed the disposition of some
Canadians to place our Province in a false light with England, and read an extract
from a paper for which the country pays £60 a year, in which it was attempted to be
proved that we desire annexation. He showed that the amount
granted would be properly expended, and explained at considerable length the provisions
of the new Militia Bill about to be brought before the House. Some further remarks
were made chiefly on the contents of the bill by different members, but as they will
be given more fully when the bill is under debate they are omitted here.
The question was put to the House on Mr. Gilbert's amendment for $10,000, which was
lost.
Mr. LINDSAY then proposed that the blank be filled with $20,000, which was rejected 31 to 6.
On the resolution being submitted, it was sustained by an opposite result.
The other items of supply were then passed without debate, and the House adjourned
to meet to-morrow morning at 9 o'clock, a.m.
J.M.
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