The House in Committee then agreed
to "A Bill to provide for the settlement
and support of the poor in this Province"
ADJOURNED DEBATE ON MR. FISHER'S
AMENDMENT
HON. MR. GILLMOR resumed—I regret I had not finished my remarks last
evening, which I would have done had
the House remained in session a few
minutes longer.
If any further reasons were necessary
to justify the personal allusions which I
have made to my hon. friend from York
(Mr. Fisher) that the attack which he
has made upon the Government, I can
give them. I entered the Temperance
Hall in Fredericton on declaration day,
a comparative stranger to most of the
audience, and my friend, not satisfied with
attacking the Government, referred to me
personally, pointing me out, and said,
"There is the Provincial Secretary; An-
glin has him in the hollow of his hand,
and can rule him as he pleases." I have
kept quiet upon this point until I could
meet him face to face in this Assembly.
To be attacked in that manner before an
audience in the city of Fredericton was
quite enough to move the indignation of
any man, and I would not be worthy to
[?] of the
constituents of Charlottetown [?]
[?]
[?]
[?]
[?]
[?]
[?]
[?]
A charge against the Government,
which I did not notice yesterday, in their
neglect in not renewing the Export Duty
Law." The Chief Commissioner of Public Works has acknowledged that the
Government have been guilty of that
omission, and none of us will deny that
the present Government are responsible
for it. It has given me a great deal of
anxiety. I am personally responsible, as
well as all my colleagues, but notwithstanding the omission, the evil has been
entirely remedied, and not one cent
has been lost to the people of the Province. (
A member,—You need not
thank
the Government for that.) Such is the
result. Who should we thank? The
Government are responsible for the management of public affairs, and cannot
shrink from it if they would, but must
bear the blame of the omission. It is
not an evidence of inability, but is an
oversight that might have occurred in any
Government, and in extenuation of it, I
will not even urge the circumstances under which the Government was formed,
and when the country knows that no
harm has resulted from it, I am sure that
a generous public will not condemn us
on that charge.
I was a little surprised at the remarks
made by the late Surveyor General. One
reason he gave for opposing the Government, was that the interests of the North
had been neglected in the formation of
the Government, and I thought it ungenerous in him to make such an allusion as he
did to the Hon. Mr. Hutchison ; from my short acquaintance with
him, I believe him quite competent and
quite ready to protect the northern interests, and, although comparisons are
odious, I think he will compare favorably
with that hon. gentleman, morally, intellectually, or as a business man, or with
any man on the floor of the House. I
consider him a man of prudence, ability
and sterling integrity. The hon. member
(Mr. McMillan) may be opposed to him
politically, but that is no reason he should
charge him with incapacity. (Mr. McClelan—In the absence of my friend
(Mr.
McMillan) I will say I understood him to
refer to his want of political experience,
and not his want of ability.) I understood him to say both, and I do not think
it fair to decry a man thus in his absence.
If the interests of the North suffer, it
will not be for want of capacity in Mr.
Hutchison.
I should be glad indeed, if the Northern interests could be more largely represented
at the Council Board, but the
great question decided at the last General
Election precluded them from taking into the Executive Council those who
entertained different opinions upon that
question, although it would have been
very gratifying to my colleagues and myself if it could have been done. (
Hon.
Mr Hatheway—My hon. friend on my
left says there were two members from
the County of Gloucester who were anti-
Confederates. Does he not know that
there was a scrutiny going on, and while
that was pending they could not become
members of the Government.)
Mr. WETMORE —
[?] no! a
[?]
[?]
[?]
[?]
[?]
[?]
[?]
[?]
that office
[?] me, and I am sure
my hon. friend thinks me sincere in this;
48 DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866.
did I not
think so I am sure I would not
so speak.
There are other hon. members who
get credit for knowing a great deal about
finance, and without wishing to depreciate them, or recommend myself, I feel
quite satisfied there is not one among
them who can discharge the duties better than I can.
As I made allusion, yesterday, to the
Inter-colonial Railway, and it has been
talked about considerably during this
debate, and has been held out as a great
inducement for us to go into Confederation, I will venture, although a little
out of connexion, to read an extract
from the Toronto Globe, which speaks
Mr. George Brown's sentiments on that
question:—
"Upper Canadians have not suffered
enough, it appears, in the estimation of
Upper Canadian members of the Cabinet, from being tied to one poor Eastern Province,
it must have three more
added to its already heavy burdens.
One Legislature is not a sufficiently
cumbrous, unwieldy and expensive
body, buyt must add to it the representatives of three other communities, each
section with varying local interests,
and all pulling at the same purse. And
to show what we may look for in the
future, we are to pay four-twelfths of
the cost of a Railway to unite us to these
new allies, and to keep the road running
besides. Truly a charming scheme to
be proposed by a retrenchment Government, whose sole aim was to be the reduction of
expenditure, and the correction of abuses in administration. New
burdens of an enormous amount are to
be imposed upon the people of Upper
Canada, a Railway job to be undertaken,
likely to be as disastrous and disgraceful as the Grand Trunk, and an already
unwieldy political system to be encumbered three fold; all that Messrs. Sicote
and Sandfield McDonald may get rid of
the difficulties with which their Government is surrounded."
SECOND EXTRACT.
"There is a refreshing coolness in the
demand that Canada shall pay for the
construction of a road, which is professedly designed to draw away trade
from its great estuary. We have been
building up the St. Lawrence at immense expense, and have had very hard
work to compete with the Hudson and
Erie Canals. According to the views
of the late Hon. Mr. Merritt, steamship
lines were alone needed to secure the
object we desire. The ministry purpose, however, to withdraw the steamships from the
St. Lawrence. If this
could be done it would be an act of suicide in Canada to take part in the
scheme. As it cannot be done it is simply an absurdity. It may be difficult to
escape from pledges given to the representatives of the Lower Provinces, but
the members of the Cabinet may rely
upon it, that they will have their reward
for the abandonment or postponement
of the measure in the approbation of
their constituents and the Province at
large."
Another extract from the Globe of
Toronto:
"We have a debt of seventy millions
and a deficiency of three or four millions, created by undertaking works
which have failed to pay any return for
the cost of construction. But no enter-
prise, the burden of which we have as-
sumed, comes anything near the Intercolonial, in the poverty of its promised
results. It will not secure the profitaable settlement of an acre of land; it will
now help our trade; it will not pay its
own running expenses; the few barren
acres at the East are to get $50,000 a
year of our money, while half a continent is to get a few words addressed to
the Colonial Minister."
MR. FISHER —Mr. Brown has changed his mind since that time.
MR. GILLMOR —Those men broke
faith once in reference to the Intercolonial Railroad, and could do it again.
Mr. Brown changed his views on this
question because he wanted to get representation by population, and when
in Confederation, the Inter-colonial Railroad depends upon a majority of the
Federal Parliament. It is not a part of
the Constitution of the Confederated Provinces.
MR. FISHER —It would be perfectly
constitutional if we make that in the
agreement.
MR. WILMOT —The British Government agree to guarantee the amount
necessary to build the Road.
MR. NEEDHAM —They guaranteed
that before, but I promise you they will
not send the money until they get
security.
HON. MR GILLMOR —I will now
read an extract from a speech made in
Canada, to show why Mr. Brown was willing to go to such an expenditure for a
non-paying railroad. It was in order to
get representation by population:
"After many years of political strife
between the two Canadas, the principle of
representation equal for each of the Canadas was fully established. The Hon.
Mr. Brown has been for a long time trying to effect a change in that part of the
Constitution of the Canadas. Every
effort having failed to effect that, he, as a
last resort, adopted Confederation as the
only means of effecting his darling object. Had he been able to bring that
about without asking the aid of the Maritime Provinces, we should never have
heard anything of Confederation. Is it
wise for the Lower Provinces to go in and
help Mr. Brown and his followers break
up an arrangement solemnly entered into
between the two Canadas? Will it not
be the means of forcing a million of
Lower Canadians into an arrangement
contrary to their wishes, and consequently they will not work harmoniously in
the new order of things, and the number can make some trouble.
MR. GILLMOR —My hon. friend, Mr.
Wilmot, occupies a singular position ; he
has heard the charges brought against the
Government, and all the charges which
have been made were for acts done or
omitted while Mr. Wilmot was in the Government; and yet in his speech he never alluded
to one of them. I was surprised, for he was equally with myself
and my colleagues responsible for all that
had been done up to the date of
his resignation, and he was even
more responsible, being an old politician and one of the gentlemen called upon by
His Excellency to form a
Government. He said he was offered
the office which I hold. I was anxious
he should have taken it, and it was only at the last moment that I accepted
it. My friend said that he soon discovered how things were going on, and he was
not going to take the office, and act "Jack
in the Box." He has no right to charge
me with being the mere instrument of
any man or body of men. He knows
me too well to imagine any such thing,
and if he wishes to convey any such
impression, he does me great injustice.
MR. WILMOT —I did not charge you
with any improper conduct. I differed
with the leader of the Government, and
my hon. friend agreed with him.
MR. GILLMOR —I have differed from
the Attorney General, and I have agreed
with him as matters appeared to my
mind, but are we to come before the
country, having been sworn to secresy,
and state what we have differed upon.
When I went into the Government, although I knew little about the duties of
an Executive Councillor, yet I knew that
as long as I remained there I was responsible for every act, whether I agreed
personally to it or not, and I am bound to
come before the House and the country
and sustain my colleagues and the Government on all their acts. I think the
impression has gone abroad in the country that we have had a great deal of
discord; such is not correct. There has
been, I think, a great deal of harmonymore than I anticipated on entering the
Government. It is only reasonable to
conclude that nine men will on many
matters entertain different opinions.
My hon. friend says he had written out
his resignation at the close of the Session. I never saw it. I think he did go
out of the Council Chamber once, in a
pet, and wrote out what he called his
resignation, but I was told he tore it up,
and was back again in fifteen minutes as
pleasant as ever.
MR. WILMOT —Did you know
I made an arrangement to leave the
Government at the close of the Session?
MR. GILLMOR —Why do you ask me
about an arrangement made before I came
in? If I had the making of an arrangement, I would not buy any man to come
into the Government by the promise of
an office.
MR. GILLMOR —You say you would
not go into the Government and take
the office of Provincial Secretary, but
you did go into the Government on a
promise that you was to get the office
of Auditor General. No man should
stipulate for any reward of that kind on
going into a Government. I did not do
so. I thought, under the circumstances,
it was my duty to help all I could, and
do the best I could, to help along the
Government of the country.
DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866. 49
MR. WILMOT.—I was anxious not to
join. I was not willing to go in without
some voice in the formation of it.
MR. GILLMOR.—My hon. friend had
a voice in the formation of the Government. There might have been a
difference of opinion, for it is difficult to get
men who can run their elections and discharge the duties of the Departments.
[Here there was quite a lengthy discussion between Messrs. Wilmot, Smith and
Hatheway, about arrangements made at
the formation of the Government and the
matters upon which differences
of opinion
existed.]
MR. GiLLMOR.—One difference in
the Government was in reference to the
appointment of a Mr. Travis, and as
there was no, vacancy there could be no
appointment. We were all anxious to
assist our friends in every way we could
consistent with the public interest.
My late colleague (Mr. Wilmot) said he
would not sustain any Government that
would allow a member of the Opposition
to carry a resolution to reduce the salary
of a public official. He heard the discussion regarding the reduction of the
Auditor General's salary, and I did not
hear him say much against it, but some
of my colleagues said he had found fault;
but he remained with the Government
from that time until his resignation,
and
never made any complaint, but has taken part in all the Government has done,
and is responsible for all.
MR. WILMOT.—The cause of dissatisfaction on my part was on account of the
President of the Council saying that the
Government wished the House to fix the
salary, when, by order of the House, the
Government themselves were to fix
it ;
and I am now charged with not taking
the Audit Office on account of the reduction of salary.
MR.
GlLLMOR —My hon. friend and
late colleague says he never was
opposed
to the abstract question of Union of the
Colonies, and that the Government has
done him injustice. The abstract question of union has never been submitted to
the electors of New Brunswick, and an
abstract question of union never will be,
except the Confederates can work it in
some way to assist them to carry the
Quebec Scheme. To submit the abstract
question of union to the people would be
an abstract absurdity, for the conditions
and details of any agreement is
the all-
important part of it.
MR. FISHER.—I
would ask my hon.
friend what he means, then, by the paragraph in the Address in answer
to the
Speech, which refers to that subject?
ln
answer to a question put by Mr. Wilmot,
did you hear me say that I was not opposed to union in the abstract ?
MR.
GlLLMOR.—I remember to have
heard His Excellency say that there were
some members in the Executive who were
not opposed to union, and he pointed to
Mr. Wilmot and Mr. Hutchison; and l
have heard Mr. Wilmot say he preferred
a Legislative Union to a Federal
Union.
MR. SMITH —You
(Mr. Wilmot)
never said before the Council that you
was not opposed to the abstract
principle
of union of British North
America.
MR. WILMOT.—I
did and am authorized
by Judge Allen to say so.
MR. FISHER —My
hon. friend says
the mere
question
of union in itself
amounts to nothing. I would ask him
what he means by the eleventh paragraph
in the Address?
Mr.
GlLLMOR.—The time has not
come to explain that. It explains itself.
We are now considering a vote of
want of
confidence. (
A member,—You as it is
a mere dodge.) I say the question of
abstract union is a mere dodge to catch
somebody—for it means anything, or
nothing. It is a phrase manufactured to
meet every person's view, and bring them
in to work on a majority against the Government. Do you suppose, Mr. Speaker,
that the Province will ever be called upon
to decide the question of union without
going into the details and
conditions ?
Some are for the Quebec Scheme,
some
for union in the abstract, and some opposed to both these, but are opposed to the
Government, and they hope, by this dodging, to carry a majority on this amendment.
My hon. friend (Mr. McClelan) states
that dame rumor say the
Government
have made a great many offers of office to
hold a majority on this vote.
Dame rumor now says the Opposition have promised all the offices, should they succeed,
and are now offering six hundred pounds
for a vote. (
Mr. Fisher,—Did my
hon.
friend say I have offered
anybody an
office? I challenge him to
produce
the
man to whom I have offered
office or
money.) Dame rumor says they have
filled, in prospective, all the offices,
and
are now offering money.
There are no persons more liberal
than those who have nothing to give.
I am quite sure that the Government
would not insult any hon. member by
holding out any offer as a bribe, and
am sure there is no constituency
that
has sent any men mean enough to sell
himself.
There are very extraordinary efforts
being made to prolong this debate in
order that some fortuitous circumstance
may turn up to help the
Opposition. lf
it is true that such liberal
offers
have
been made in the anticipated new Government, the liberality of the Opposition is much
like the man who was exceedingly willing to give away milk
after his cows went dry.
The Opposition have to get the present Government out, and then get in
themselves, before they have anything
to give, and before that is done there is
rather a serious operation to go
through.
MR.
KERR. After this very exciting
discussion, which has taken us by surprise. I may say it is a wonder how
the Government have so long held
together, when we know the difference of
opinion they have maintained on almost
all questions; it is surprising
how they
were enabled to come together and sit
at the some Council board. I have been
in the House fourteen yours. The President of the Council came in the same
day that I did. He has had the sweets
of office, and l have been left out in the
cold. I regret the warmth to which the
debate has given rise. It is not
desirable we should have such scenes, more
especially between those who have the
destinies of this Province in their charge
to a large extent. I did hope—after
the Hon. Provincial Secretary had
stated in the House that he would not
say hard things, as he was too well
bred for that—he would
not
have gone
to the extreme length to which he has.
I think there
was some things he might
have omitted without marring the
beauty of his speech. He has thrown
a bomb shell among the members of the
Government, causing them to reveal the
secrets of the Council Chamber of last
season, and if these scenes
were freuent there must have been some
hard
feelings. I am not surprised that
there was difference of opinion there.
I believe this Government was formed upon
one single idea. The most discordant
elements were brought together, and
the members of the Government scarcely agreed upon any question except anti- Confederation.
I regret the dissolution
of the Assembly took place. I believe
if the House had met last winter, and
the subject of Confederation had been
discussed. and the debates had gone
abroad in the country, people would
have understood the arguments for
and
against that great question,
and at the
next election we would have had the
matter settled one way or the other.
Confederation is the main question now,
for every speaker has said more or less
about it. Before the last election, I,
like man others, was undecided
whether the Scheme propoundcd in
Quebec was one this country should
adopt, but I thought that disturbance
might take place, as it was expected
that at the 0 me of the American war,
disbanded soldiers who were without
employment might create disturbance
on our borders, and if we did all in our
power to assist ourselves by entering
into confederation which was highly
approved of in England, the whole
power of the nation would be put forth
for our assistance. I did not think this
union was going to give us such great
prosperity as some predicted,
neither did
I think it would bring desolation
und
ruin on this Province. No great change
of this kind is ever made without a
great deal of dissatisfaction
being expressed by the minority. In Scotland
there was no dissolution of the Legislature when the union with England was
effected, and since that union
has been
consummated, that country has prospered as well as any other portion of
the world, although the representation
of that country in Parliament is very
small. In Ireland union was not
brought about by an appeal to the people. Union appears to o the order of
the day; we have union in commercial
matters, union in Australia and the
Cape Coast Colonies. lt has been
stated that union is strength. It certainly would be strength for a poor
country like this to be joined
to a large
wealthy country. And it is my opinion
that the confederation of these colonies
must ultimately take place. After the
election no man was qualified to sit in
council, or fit for any office throughout
the country, unless he was known as an
anti-Confederate. In the North there
was only one member chosen to
represent the whole of the Northern Counties. where we have had three during
the last ten or fifteen years,
all men of
ability. I do not mean to say the present member is not capable, for I believe there
are few better
business men
in the Province. He is a strong Conservative, and is a man that will think
and act for himself; but there
were
other men in the North quite as competent to have taken a seat at the
Council Board. We have been left with
only one gentleman in tho Council, and
that gentleman attending to his
business
50 DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866.
in England, so that we have not a single member in the Government at present. (
Mr. Smith —No injustice will
be done to the North.) I am glad to
hear it, but I am very sceptical about it.
I have been for many years in opposition to the Government, but I have always been
ready to give them a
hearty support in any measure which
I believed to be right They have not
done right in leaving the important
office of Auditor General unfilled. The
accounts may have been well audited,
the gentleman who occupies the office
may have discharged his duty faithfully,
but I do not think, as the matter stands,
he can make such a report of the accounts as ought to have the entire confidence of
the country. He is not furnished with the materials to examine the
accounts in such a way as ought to be
done. Then again, we have reason to
find fault with the Government for incurring the heavy expense of delegation to England
on a useless mission.
A despatch was written the 12th of
April last, to be laid before this House.
That despatch must have been received
at the opening of the Legislature, and
any person looking at it would say,
that anything we could do by delegation
could be effected by a despatch of the
Government. They certainly have not
done anything to change the views of
the Bristish Government on confederation. In order to carry out that delegation, the
country had to give up the
services of the Attorney General for
three months, and incur an expense of
£700, which is a large sum of money to
throw away without receiving an equivalent. I spoke and voted against that
delegation, and I disapprove of it yet
There is a matter connected with out
debentures, coupons, and other matters
lying in various hands. He might have
made some arrangements about having
them taken up and destroyed, but I fear
it was not done. There are £17,000 of
our debentures which fall due the 1st
April, and we have debentures lying in
St. John which are not accessible to the
public. A large amount of money will
be required which will have to be paid
in new debentures, and those new debentures should be sold in this country
so as to save so much interest to the
country.
MR. GILLMOR —Is my hon. friend
not aware that there are £16,000 in debentures in the treasury at St. John
which have been there four weeks.
MR. KERR.—I am aware of that
fact. I took down money to purchase
some of those debentures, and was told
no person was authorized to sell them.
MR. GILLMOR.—Those debentures are
kept in the treasury for the purpose of
exchanging them for those that fall due
in May. We had no occasion to raise
money upon them. If our debentures
were absorbed in New Brunswick we
would not have to draw £5,000 sterling
[?] the
interest on our railroad
[?] along
Canada being in
debt, are we not £6,000,000 in debt, and
only
[?] piece
of railroad to show
for it. (
Mr. Needham—who built it?)
A larger amount of money was expended in building it than it was worth
and it
[?]
upon the Province
for
[?] debt
of £70,000 currency
annually, which was what we owe
besides, gives us a debt for which we
have to pay £88,000 per annum. This
is a heavy charge for the few public
works we have. We are owing that
money, and when that money is falling
due we should look ahead and see where
the means are to come from to pay
it.
There should be no default in paying the
interest in England, for if they lose confidence in us, our debentures will go
down in the British market. I desire
to see these debentures placed where
the people can get them, if that can be
done without any risk of the public
funds of the country. We hear a great
deal said about the theory of union. I
do not know what this theory is. There
was a delegation appointed last session
to effect a union of the Maritime Provinces. I do not know whether it was
done to keep up some sort of appearance, or whether there was any intention to effect
such a nation. I have never
heard of anything being done.
HON. MR. SMITH —It was distinctly
understood that we were requested to do
it by Nova Scotia.
MR. KERR —That may be the case,
but it stands recorded upon the Journals
of our House. We have no assurance
that they intend to bring down any scheme
of union, and as I believe Confederation
must ultimately be carried, I intend to
give my assistance to any improvement
upon the Quebec Scheme; but at the
same time I believe the Quebec Scheme
as it is, is better for us than to be alone.
MR. CORAM —I am here to-day an
independent representative of the City and
County of St. John. I have no other objects in supporting any Government than
the best interests of my country. What
is the indictment brought against this
Government? A great many arguments
have been brought forward by members
on both sides, and a great many charges
made in a rambling way, without proving
one single point. I cannot see why the
present Government cannot carry on the
business of the country as well as a new
Government could. If I have not been
misinformed, the mover of the Amendment has always been finding fault and
bringing a vote of want of confidence
against every Government of which he is
not a member himself. This being the
leader that some other gentlemen have.
I was elected to oppose the Quebec
Scheme, and I am in the confidence of
those who sent me here. If I change my
views, it is my duty to tender my resignation; until I do that, I will carry out
the views of those who sent me here by
supporting the present Government.
When we look at the indictment and lift
the veil, we see nothing but Confederation
under it, and the object is to carry out
the Quebec Scheme as it was, is, and
shall be. We should not go into Confederation until the route of the Intercolonial
Railroad is settled and put under
seal, so that it cannot be altered. A
reason given why we should go into Confederation is that we would be better protected;
we would have soldiers sent down
to guard us by night against Fenians.
I do not believe there would be one
[?] down from
Canada to defend
[?] New
Brunswick. Will going
into Confederation make us more loyal?
No, I am just as loyal as ever
[?]
for I am prepared to
[?]
defend the
[?]
and the liberty
[?]
this
[?]
results will allow
[?]
all men to live in friendship and move, instead of hatred and strife. It is our duty
to
protect all men when we can, whether
they are Protestants or
Catholics, but if
they come against the laws of my country, I will put them down. A charge
brought against the Government is the
great expense of the delegation going to
England. At the last sitting of the Legislature a majority of the
House decided to send a delegation to England,
and
they went according to the wishes of the
House and the people. Why should we
condemn the Government, before the
correspondence between the Government
and the Mother Country is laid before the
House? They have not brought any evidence to prove they have done wrong in
this particular. When the documents
are produced, if they have not done according to the wishes of the people, I
will vote against them. I will
try them
before condemning them. I like to see fair
play and justice dealt out to
every man.
With regards to railroads, that is a question with which I will deal when it comes
before the House in proper shape. When
they are called upon for the
agreement in
regard to Western Extension, then
I
will
do my best to sustain them or go against
theme as I think proper. Another complaint was, why was not the
House called
together sooner? Where is the damage
done? We know the Attorney General
was at Washington negotiating regarding
the Reciprocity Treaty, and we should
not condemn him betore he brings his documents before the Home so that we
can see whether he has carricd out the
trust reposed in him. On these grounds
I think the indictments are wrong, therefore I cannot condemn the
Government
without a fair trial.
MR. SCOVIL —As we are progressing
so slow
in this debate, I will occupy but
little time. I am not in the habitat of making long speeches to place myself before
my constituents. When this
House
was first formed, the people were called
upon to decide one of the greatest questions that ever came before them. They
gave their decision, and we were
returned
by a two-thirds majority, to oppose this
Quebec Scheme, which was a scheme
propounded by the wise men of the different Provinces, and laid before
the
people of this Province for them
to accept.
When the House was dissolved, I was
determined not to offer as a
candidate on
that occasion, but from the pressure
of
circumstances, I came to the conclusion
that, as this question was
agitating the
minds of the people, and they having
elected me three times before, I would
come forward and advocate my principles, and they returned me. My hon.
friend (Mr. Kerr) says if this Government
was turned out, the prospects of Confederation would be almost certain. He has
good reason for saying so, and I
look
upon him with honor, as carrying out the
principles advocated by him on the hustings. When I came forward to advocate
my principles, I declared myself an anti- Confederate, and my reason for going
against this amendment is to maintain
those persons in
[?], who have taken
the charge of the Province.
[?]
thing to induce me
[?] mind of
[?] this scheme of Confederation
[?]
should be in favor of the Quebec Scheme
I would not enter this House, for I
[?]
[?] it my duty to resign my
[?]
[?] these boards
[?]
[?] their own
[?]
but they tell them they are now in power,
and they will have Confederation
though
DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866. 51
elected to oppose
the scheme. Among
all their indictments, I cannot see that
one has been sustained. I cannot see
one reason for turning out the present
Government. It is true, since they came
into power there has been a
continual cry
throughout the country that the people
had changed their minds about
Confederation. In the County of King's, if
there is any change, it is rather against
the scheme. I admit there has been
an oversight in not observing that the
Export Duty Law was about to
expire.
Of that overnight the Government have
taken the responsibility and the
difficulty
has been remedied without the loss of a
single dollar. If they have been guilty
of the omission, they might well be excused under the circumstances.
There
was a continual pressure brought to bear
upon them from Canada, England, and
the Confederates of this
Province; and
the press has been most unscrupulous.
The Provincial Secretary has said all I
had to say about them, and I agree with
every word he said concerning
them.
My hon. friend from Carleton (Mr. Lindsay) has said the British
Government
wished us to enter into Confederation.
I look upon this question as one for the
people of New Brunswick to decide. I
do not believe we are to be dictated to
even by the British Government, and we
should not submit to Downing Street
dictation. I have heard the hon. mover
of the amendment harangue the House in
former times, complaining of the
Government being led by Downing Street dictation. My hon. friend has told us that
if we were loyal subjects of Great Britain,
we would submit to any thing. (
Mr.
Lindsay,—I said loyalty
consisted in
obedience.) When I speak of the Queen
I speak with respect; but those men in
office are no more than we are. They
may be there to-day and out to-morrow.
What does Mr. Cardwell know
about the
benefits arising from Confederation? The
people have told Mr. Cardwell that they
do not want Confederation. but still the
scheme is agitated; and we have the forty-second member of the House going
through the length and breadth of the
land, lecturing the people upon the benefits of the scheme—a professional politician,
with nothing to do but to
stir up
people's minds about Confederation. He
is now on the floors of the House,
or the
next thing to it. l heard, my hon. friend
(Mr. Wetmore) talk about the stuffing
process. I think he is getting
as much
stuffing as any other hon. member in
this House, and I think my hon. friend
from Westmorland is getting stuffed
too.
MR. WETMORE.—My
hon. friend refers to stuffing. I shall be haupy to hear
him go on and tell how the Government
are stuffing him.
MR. SCOVlL.—l will tell him that no
Government is stuffing me. I did not
come into this House to seek for office.
(
Mr. Wetmore—They stuff you, and you
don't know it.) I have common sense,
and I do not allow the Attorney General
or the forty-second member to stuff me.
Those individuals who are looking up
with their mouths open, getting stuffed,
will have to disgorge, to explain themselves to their constituency.
There has
been a great cry raised about
a Minute of Council, signed by the members of the Government and addressed to
Mr. Cardwell, whom the hon. mover of
the amendment wishes to bow down
to and
worship. I saw this dispatch and thought
it a well-written article. I read that
dispatch over to a person who had
told me
it was one of the worst documents he
ever saw. But before I got through, he
said the country ought to be proud that
they had seven men, such men in the Government, who would honestly express
their opinions.
I was always in favor of union, and when the Quebec Scheme came up, I
tried, if possible, to agree with it. I sifted it, and came to the conclusion
that New Brunswick would be nowhere under that scheme; for under it, I
do not believe the rights and interests of the people are
protected. (
Mr. Lindsay,—How, then,
can you eulogize the men who said they were opposed to a union of the
Provinces?) I gave them credit for using those strong terms. We do not
want any closer union with Canada, unless we see the rights of the
people protected. (
Mr.
Wetmore,—Did you say, during the election, that you were in
favor of union?) We had the Quebec Scheme, and we had to allow the
whole of it or reject it. I told the people that l looked upon a union
of the colonies as advantageous, but I did all I could to satisfy
the people that the Quebec Scheme was not the scheme for New
Brunswick; and I should be recreant to my trust if I went against
those men who formed this Government on those principles, for if they
were ousted, I have no doubt but it would be an advantage to the scheme. I
believe people are apt to change their mind. I have changed my mind in
some things. I was a young politician when I came here, and in the
course of my political life in this House, I always condemned a
Government for dismissing good public servants to put others in their place,
but I have got to be almost a smasher on that point. I used to think
the Government would live down such opposition, but I
believe now that when a public officer goes out to canvass, and
uses his office for a canvassing shop, he should be turned out of his
office at once. (
Mr. L. P. W.
DesBrisay.—I would ask him how he supports a Government that
is unable to turn out even the meanest man holding an office in this
Province?)
There was then some conversation he-
tween
Mr. Wetmore and
Mr. Scovil regarding the appointment in offices, and
bribery, after which the debate was then
adjurned until 12 o'clock to-morrow.
MR.
SCOVlL. by leave, brought in a
Bill to change the Constitution of the
Legislative Council, after which the
House was adjourned until 10 A. M. tomorrow
T. P. D.
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