House went into Committee of the
Whole on further considersation of a Bill
to abolish the property qualification of
members to serve in the General Assembly of the Province. After considerable
discussion the question was taken, when
the House divided- 12 nays, 11 yeas.
Mr. Costigan then moved the reconsideration of the question, on the ground that
several members were absent, and that he
was satisfied that the majority of members, from their expression of opinion,
were in favor of the Bill. The motion to
reconsider the question prevailed, and
finally a motion to report progress was
carried. A long discussion took place on
the subject of Bills for placing roads on
the great road establishment, and the
question was raised whether they should
be dealt with by the Government, or referred to the Chief Commissioner of the
Board of Works. Mr. L. P. DesBrisay argued that the result of referring
such Bills to the Chief Commissioner was
that nothing was done for twelve months.
It was suggested that when Bills were referred to the Chief Commissioner, he should
be called upon to report upon them within a certain number of days, and ten days were
thought to be proper limit of time. It was objected that the Chief Commissioner could
not give his attention to such Bills during the session of the House. With regard
to the House dealing with the Bills, it was held, that it would be in direct opposition
to the principle of initiation of money grants by the Government. Besides to discuss
such Bills would take up an immense deal of the time of the House. They ought to be
referred to the Chief Commissioner. In placing roads on the great road establishments
it was necessary to take into consideration all the roads of the Province, and the
wants and claims of particular localities, and the smaller could only be dealt with
by those who had a general knowledge of all the roads. Ten days, it was argued, was
entirely too short a time to allow the Chief Commissioner to report upon Bills referred
to him during the sitting of the House. Hon. members called attention to the roads
in their Counties they wanted to be placed in the great road establishment. Mr. DesBrisay
and Mr. Caie, hon. members of Kent, particularly drew attention to the most important
roads in their County, one tapping the Buctouche and Cacaigne Rivers, and bringing
Moncton within 23 miles of Richibucto instead of 70 ; the other, a road running to
the Miramichi River. Mr. Costigan called attention to " a leak of six miles in the
road from Grand Fall to Quebec."
Finally, a resolution in amendment of a previous motion was carried, that all the
Bills before the House to place roads on the great road establishment, be referred
to the Chief Commissioner of the Board of Works, to report thereon within ten days.
THE ADJOURNED DEBATE ON MR. FISHER'S Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â AMENDMENT.Â
The Adjourned Debate on the amendment to the fourth paragraph in the Address was then
taken up. Some objection was urged by Mr. Needham against going on with the debate,
but Mr. Beveridge said he would prefer speaking then, whereupon
Mr. BEVERIDGE remarked that so much had been said on the question by honorable members, that it
was useless further to take up the time of the House. But as it appeared to be understood
that every hon. member should express an opinion, he would do so very shortly. It
had given him great pleasure to listen to what had fallen from the member of Carleton
as to the great resources of Canada, on the position of the Government on the question
of Union, and on the importance to the interests of the country to have it settled.
He had to express an opinion, as the Government were not in favor of Union, he would
therefore vote against them. He was for Union ; he thought that ought to be the policy
of the country. He did not care what men or set of men brought about that object,
so it was brought about. It had been remarked that it was undesirable that New Brunswick
should be united more closely with Canada ; but it appeared to him that such a union
must benefit the Province immensely ; it would be a similar case with a poor man joining
in partnership with a rich one ; and had they
ever, he would ask, heard of a poor man being unwilling to unite in business with
a man who was a great deal wealthier than himself ; the benefits must be greatly on
the side of the poor man. The great object they should all strive for should be to
get Union ; without Union taxes must increase in this province— what with its general
increased expenditures and the construction of so many railroads, when he thought
of all the branch railways now building, or for which Bills had been passed, of the
Extensions - Western and Eastern—he wondered where all the money was to come from.
It seemed to him that while the revenue was decreasing their expenditures were increasing,
and he did not see how the country could go on under the present system supporting
its burdens, and meet its liabilities without resorting to direct taxation. Had the
Government submitted a Scheme of Union, he would have been willing to go for them.
Let them look at the question as they liked, there was no use shutting their eyes
to the fact that Union must come sooner or later, and to his mind the sooner it came
the better. It was admitted that to join in with Canada, they would be united with
a larger and richer people, and such a Union must be beneficial to them. He thought
they should all unite to bring about that most desirable object. Had the Government,
as he had said, come down with a measure, and shown what the objectionable features
of the Quebec Scheme were, and explained where the proper check was to be put that
would neutralize the undue influence that they said Upper Canada must have by the
principle of representation by population, he would have been willing to go for them,
but as they had said they had no intention to submit any Scheme, he must go against
them, and vote for the amendment.
Mr. NEEDHAM said, it was not his intention to have occupied the attention of the House at this
time, and he would have been better satisfied if he had been allowed to take his own
way, and to have spoken when he felt inclined ; but rather than it should be said
that he was not disposed to go on with the debate, he would now proceed to offer some
preliminary remarks.
It was a most important subject they were discussing—the most important that had ever
been discussed in that Legislature, involving, as it did, the interests of the country
; and according as it was settled, it would affect not only the destinies of the men
who formed the Government of the Province, but, ultimately, the destinies of the Province
itself. In dealing with the subject, he would observe no exact order, but take it
up as it came to him. He would take up the remark of the hon. member for Victoria,
Mr. Beveridge, who said that they had never heard of a poor man who was not willing
to go into partnership with a rich man, applying this to the union of New Brunswick
with Canada. No doubt there were great advantages to a poor man in a union of that
kind ; but the benefits of such a partnership were not so evident when the riches
of the reputed wealthy man—and he applied this to Canada— were reported to be of a
very doubtful character, and especially when entering into such a partnership, the
poor man had to give up the control of his own effects and the general management
of his own affairs.
With regard to the immediate question before the House, he had never, throughout all
his experience of political matters, known a vote of want of confidence against a
Government to be pursued on so slight a ground—on ground that took so much the character
of clap-trap. A vote of want of confridence should be grounded on malfeasance on the
part of the Government. The evidence of malfeasance and incapacity against them should
be clear and manifest. One of the great charges against the Government was that the
Legislature had been called together some three weeks later than was customary. It
was all very well for the mover of the the amendment to say that by delay the rights
of the people had been sacrificed, their interests neglected. There was no truth whatever
in that assertion. When they spoke of sacrificing the interests of the country, what
was to be said of his hon. colleague, who, of his own motive, voluntarily brought
in this vote of want of confidence, grounded, he (Mr.- N.) held, on insufficient grounds,
that had taken up more than three weeks of the time of the House, and that was still
dragging along, delaying the business of the country, and that had already cost the
country some $21,000 ? Some hon. member had said that if the money had been expended
on the bye roads, it would have been much more profitable for the country, and so
said he ; but before he was done, he would show that that money was a mere drop in
the bucket compared with the interests at stake by the agitation of this question.
He thought he could show that the delaying the calling together of the Legislature
was not a serious charge against the Government. He held the Government were quite
right in not calling it together sooner. They were there met not for the purpose of
legislating for Canada or Nova Scotia, but for themselves. This Legislature was not
to be convened for the convenience of Lord Monck or to meet the views of Canadian
politicians. Why was it that the Canadian Legislature was not yet in the Gazette called to gether for the despatch of business ? Why did they make this delay ? They
did so for their own convenience, he believed, with a view to the action of this Legislature.
The Government would have deserved a vote of want of confidence if they had played
into the hands of the Canadian tricksters. If they had, he would have moved a vote
of want of confidence against them himself. He would pursue the subject under discussion
as it came to his mind, and if he was not so methodical as he might otherwise have
been, the House must excuse him as he had been obliged to speak when he was not quite
prepared. The hon. mover of the amendment had said that the Government deserved to
be thrown out, that they knew the feeling in the country was against them, and they
dared not fill up their offices, because they had not a constituency they could call
their own. He dared his hon. colleague to resign his seat and run an election against
him (Mr. N.) in their County. Let his hon. colleague run him if he dared, he was prepared
to resign his seat and test the feeling of York on Confederation. It was most extraordinary
the position some hon. members took on that question. They saw, they said, union foreshadowed
in the speech ; they were, they also asserted, elected to support Confederation. But
they were insincere in their profes
80 DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866.
sions if when they said that union was the Government policy they did not support
it. For his own part he had come to the House an anti-Confederate, opposed to the
Quebec Scheme, and he was as strongly opposed to that measure as ever he had been.
So much had been said about the York election during the course of this debate, that
he did not intend to enter into it at great length. The result of that election had
been loudly proclaimed to be a triumph of Confederation. He believed that those who
most loudly claimed it as a triumph were insincere, and knew that what they said was
untrue. At the last election in York, both candidates were opposed to Confederation.
There was no doubt it. In speaking of what took place at that election, he did not
intend to be personal. With regard to the remarks his hon. colleague, Mr. Fisher,
had made about himself, (Mr. N.) he was willing to interpret them freely, and put
them down to the elation of success. He had been accustomed to be freely spoken about,
and he was one of those men with whom people took greater liberties than they did
with others. No doubt, if he was in the Government, and had power and patronage at
his disposal, they would speak differently of him. But he did not intend to retaliate
on his colleague the personalities that gentleman had uttered regarding him. The people
of York, unbought, uncorrupted, of their own free mind, had returned him at the last
general election by an immense majority over his hon. colleague, and put him in the
position he had now the honor to occupy, and he would not condescend to disgrace it
by retorting personalities.
With regard to the late election, he had just a little to say. That election had decided
something that he could not before understand. In reading the election law, there
was something in it about bribery and corruption. He had always thought that bribery
and corruption meant one and the same thing, and he never could understand why two
terms meaning the same thing, should be used, when an incident at that election settled
the question to him mind. Here he held an object in his hand (holding up a bank note),
when he first saw it and gazed upon it, the words of Hamlet's address to his Father's
Ghost came into his mind—
Angels and ministers of grace defend
us ! Be though a spirit of health or goblin damned, Bring with thee airs from Heaven
or blasts from Hell, Be thy intents wicked or charitable, Thou comest in such a questionable shape, That I will speak to thee.
But what, they would ask, was so very extraordinary about the object. It was a simple
bank note. It appeared a very good rule, no doubt, when slipped into the hands of
the free and independent elector by some one of the agents of hon. candidate. He would
read its superscription—" St. Stephen Bank, May 1st, 1863, for value received pay
the bearer $2— payable where ? at New York. They bought their voter for $2, and paid him with Yankee money, and that was what
he called fastening corruption on to bribery. With reference to that election, it
decided nothing at all—or if it decided anything, it decided that his hon. collea
gue could not claim a Confederate triumph, for it was patent to all that it was the
sensation got up about the Fenians that carried it. It was a clever and cunning dodge.
When Fisher was safely returned Fenianism was entirely ignored ; its work was done.
But the alarm about Fenianism was not over, for its work had not been yet done. He
never had believed in this Fenian alarm. And there were men in the States who had
means of knowing who said that Fenianism was nothing but a trick—a sensation got up
by Canadians politicians to carry Confederation. With regard to this vote of Want
of Confidence, a greater anomaly had never been raised. When the Governor came down
and asked the House for power and money to enable him to place the Province in a state
of defence, did the opposition oppose the granting of that money and these powers.
No. They went as strongly as the Government party to put all the resources of the
Province in the hands of His Excellency, and this at the time when they were running
a vote of Want of Confidence against the Government. Was that statesmanlike— was that
the course they ought to have taken. No. They ought either to have ceased at once
from their Want of confidence, or have stuck out to the last, and refused to vote
the money awy. That was what they ought to have done. Mr. Needham proceeded to say
that he had once remarked that he took a broader view of these matters that came before
the House than most members. He liked to look into the past and look forward to the
future ; when he looked back into the past of his colleague, Mr. Fisher, and contrasted
his position with the positions he held in times past he must come to the conclusion—
if the country had reason not to confide in the present Government, ten thousand times
less had they reason to have confidence in Mr. Fisher. When he declared that the Government
sent home a despatch to the Colonial Office ; a despatch that he called insulting
to Her Majesty, and said he felt so humiliated, he could not but remember that he
had said as much when in 1856 he went home on the Railway delegation, and a long legged
Yankee bearer of despatches in a blue bag got superior honor on board the steamboat,
and his luggage before him when he arrived at Liverpool. He felt humiliated then for
his country that greater honor should have been paid to this American than to himself.
Now he was humiliated because this present Government had sent home a dispatch, one
of the best and most independent documents that had ever emanated from a Colonial
office. There was no man that withstood the scheme of Confederation but must endorse
it. Humiliated ! He would tell the House when he felt humiliated for his country.
At the time the Conference took place in Canada, where Galt said to the delegates
of the Province, " What is the least possible amount of money you can get on with
?" With bent brows and after deep cogitation, they concluded that the least possible
amount was$210,000. Think ; after surrendering to Canada the entire revenue of the
Province, to be asked what was the least possible amount they could get on with ;
after surrendering the glorious right of self-government, after giving up their political
independence, after giving away all they could give away, to be asked by Galt " What
is the least possible amount
you can get on with ?" He wished there had been a man there. He wished he had been
there, and, his life for it, they would not have consented to such infamous terms,
whether the meeting had taken place after dinner or before it
With regard to the dispatches from the
Colonial Office, it was only now that his hon. friend, Mr. Fisher, had come to obey
them. There was a time when his hon. friend had no such reverence for home dispatches.
(Here the hon. member referred to the political primer.) With regard to the dispatch
of March 23rd, 1865, from Mr. Cardwell, Mr. Fisher said if it had been laid before
the House during the last session, there would have been no need of a delegation.
He held that there would have been more need. If the House had had that dispatch before
it, the vote for the delegation would have been passed without a division.
In reference to his own position with
regard to the Government, he was independent. They did not hold him by a hair of his
head. He had never had any instructions how to vote. He came to the Legislature to
vote against Confederation and to support a Government who would prevent the Quebec
Scheme from being inflicted upon the country.
If he should do anything contrary to
the pledge he had given ; if he should say or do anything that should prove him recreant
to his trust, let them class him with Arnold, the greatest traitor known in American
history.
With regard to the celebrated despatch of the Government, (of July) and the imputed
disloyalty of the men who drew it up, he had a word to say. Loyalty was a very good
thing, as religion was a very sacred thing ; but there were no two words that had
been more desecrated than religion and loyalty ; they could be made to mean anything.
The Confederate scedmers had made very free use of Her Majesty's name in order to
give force to their arguments. He had no hesitation in saying that they had no authority
to bring Her Majesty's name into this controversy at all. It was with Mr. Cardwell,
the British Minister, with whom they had to do. Suppose the British Government attempted
to coerce these Provinces into adopting the scheme against their will, and the same
result followed, as followed for the coercive course of the British Government towards
the twelve American colonies, he held that resistance to unjust authority was not
disloyalty to Her Majesty. He has had as loyal affection to the Queen, and esteem
for her many virtues as any of her subjects that breathed. But loyalty, as he understood
the term, was not abject submission to tyranny and oppression, but it was the devotion
of the heart, based on the honest conviction of the judgment. While there was a loyalty
to the Queen, there was also a loyalty to themselves, a loyalty to the land of their
birth. They all knew the lines :
Lives there a man with soul so dead, Who never to himself hath said— This is my own,
my native land !
That was real absolute loyalty. When those two principles of loyalty came in contact
loyalty to their country must take the way. He told the people of the country, if
any Government should dare to coerce him into adopting a constitution against his
will, that moment
DEBATES OF THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR 1866. 81
they would sound a tocsin that would lead ultimately to independence. These were his
honest sentiments.
Mr. Needham referred to Mr. Card- well's despatch, and asked if it was not a strong intimation
that the Government desired Confederation under the Quebec Scheme. Looks at the position
of the Government and then let them say if they could have answered that despatch
in any other terms than they did. The Government were formed on an anti-Confederate
basis, directly opposed to that scheme. When he went through the contest at the general
election he was opposed to that Quebec Scheme, and had shewn up its defects to the
best of his ability. But half of its iniquity had not been told. He would tell the
House some things concerning it that would amaze them. If there was ever a sell perpetrated
against any country it was that Quebec Scheme. He would not only show, but prove it,
before he was done. Mr. Cardwell might be a very nice man, (so they were all very
nice men) but he must not attempt to coerce this Province. He thought, perchance,
that they were a small people here—only some 250,000 men and women—that to his mind
might be a very small number, only the population of some third rate town in England.
But he forgot there was a difference between man and man. But where would he find
in England 250,000 that were equal to the 250,000 of New Brunswick. There could not
be found in Europe or Asia, 250,000 with equal general intelligence, ability, and
equal administrative talent. They in New Brunswick breated from their birth the pure
bracing air of freedom. They were accustomed to self-government, and would yield to
none their civil and political rights. Every man born in New Brunswick felt himself
to be a man, and every woman felt herself to be a woman. The mind was the standard
of the man. When the British Government invested this country with the right of self-government
had they any right to take it away again ? (Here the hon. member at great length showed
that it was the intention of the Canadians, and had settled at the Conference, that
the scheme was to be put through the various legislatures without any appeal to the
people. He had been present, he said, in Woodstock, when Mr. Fisher made the first
grand development of the scheme ; when he spoke of the Union of the Colonies, the
founding of a grand nationality, as a theme demanding the power of a Demosthenes ;
when he compared the delegates who met at Quebec to the men of the first American
Revolution who sealed the independence of the United States. Those latter where very
great men. Mr. N. proceeded to say, they did not meet and finish up their constitution
in seventeen days, and afterwards sign it on a Sunday ; but they took years before
they finished their work, and it was a constitution that had stood the political turmoil
and the battle shock of seventy-four years, and would last for ages. When he heard
his hon. colleague say, that the steamer that took the delegates to Quebec reminded
him of the Mayflower freighted with the pious pilgrims who landed on Plymouth rock
; he could not help thinking if the Mayflower, instead of being freighted with pious
pilgrims, had such a band on
board as those men who played such a part at the Conference at Quebec, she would have
sunk before she got half way on her passage to this continent. With regard to the
Quebec Scheme, its supporters said that it was the best scheme they had got, or would
ever get. Why, while he was speaking he wou;d check out a better and more honest measure.
He would never consent that the scheme should be inflicted upon the country. He gave
the Government a perfectly independent support. Let the Government tell the House
if Needham had ever asked them for anything, or solicited any favor. He felt above
that ; true friendship was unbought, and friendship was best displayed when needed.
What had the leadership of the Government said—" rather than submit to the Quebec
Scheme he would go down with the ship." So would he ; he would stick to the ship and
go down with it, if go down he must. It was said by several hon. members that Confederation
was foreshadowed in the Speech, but he said it was not. With regard to the question
of Union, he was not going to tell the House whether he was in favor of it or not.
He was not going to tell his enemies his ideas concerning it, and give them the benefit
of his brains.
Mr. Needham then said, that he would now come down to the despatches. His hon. colleague said
that those despatches ought to have been published. Why did he not, when in Government
in 1850, publish the dispatches of Sir Edmund Head. When they did come before the
House it was in a mutilated form, rows of asterisks between gaping paragraphs. There
was a great dissatisfaction, and a resolution was moved in the House calling on the
Government to submit them whole. He would ask his hon colleague if any Government
had ever published despatches before they were submitted to the House. Let hon. members
judge how absurd it was for his colleague (Mr. F.) to charge this Government with
not doing what his Government had not done.
(The hon. member here quoted from the " political primer" to show the inconsistency
of Mr. Fisher, and contrasted the position he held when in the Government in 1850,
with regard to the Colonial Office, and his disregard then for despatches emanating
from the Colonial Office, and the position he took against the present Government
on these points.
Mr. Needham then branched into a history of the struggle for Responsible Government. He knew
all the men who had taken part in that great contest. He revered the memories of those
who had passed away. Some were still upon the stage of life, and some had taken to
themselves all the glory of the measure. Je though that the glory should be given
to who the glory was due—the plume of victory to those who had really fought the battle.
It had been said that Judge Wilmot and Mr. Fisher had fought the fight, and certainly
they had enjoyed all the honor and credit of the victory. But who were the men who
did the work—who went into the back settlements of the country and fought the battle
side by side by night and by day—who were they ? John Pickard and others, whose services
have never been acknowledged. It was accident often that caused men to be he
roes. If Wilmot and Fisher had not had such men as those fighting the hard fight,
they would never have enjoyed the glory gave it to an opponent of Responsible Government
had not been won for the people. Was it Wellington that won the victory of Waterloo,
and freed Europe from the thraldom of Napoleon ? Was it not rather the brave fellows
who fought, bled and died without due meed of honor What he blamed Wilmot and Fisher
for was, that they had not given equal credit. to those who had fought the battle
with them. There was a man now living than whom no man had done more for the cause
by his pen and his word. He referred to Dr. Livingstone of St. John—a man true, faithful,
honest, sincere—a man of great sagacity and indomitable energy, who had done more
to give the people Responsible Government than any man who had engaged in the contest—more
than those who had gained all the honor had done combined, and how had he been rewarded
for his services ? And what did Wilmot and Fisher do ? They, alarmed by the strength
of a great principle, went into a coalition Government. When an appointment was made
that would have been of some service to Dr. Livingstone—who they knew had worked so
hard—they gave it to an opponent of Responsible Government. The proper place for the
Doctor would have been in the Legislative Council. They ought to have put him in the
Upper House, but though they had the opportunity, they neglected to give honor to
whom honor was due. They were afraid to put him there, more shame to them. He thought
they should not have been so anxious to get into Government. They would have done
themselves more honor if they had waited. However, they had received pay for all they
ever did. His friend got the Puisne Judgeship, and he left his (Mr. N) hon. colleague
in the Government to fight the battles all alone.
He would wind up with a few words about the despatch—he meant the glorious despatch
of 15th July. The hon. member of Albert (McClellan) called it the immortal despatch.
The Attorney General said, when he read it in the Colonial Office in London, he was
proud of it, and endorsed it every word. He had never had doubt about it himself,
and he thought the people would endorse it also. He was delighted to have an opportunity
to express his opinion upon it ; when he first saw it and read it, his heart leapt
for joy. He thought that it had made Mr. Cardwell understand, when he dealt with the
people of New Brunswick, he dealt with a people who knew the right and privileges
of Responsible Government, and were determined to maintain them.
A. A.
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