PRAYERS.
FIRST READINGS.
Bill (No. 68) to incorporate the Alberta Railway and Coal
Company.—(Mr. Davis, Alberta.)
Bill (No. 69) to confirm a mortgage given by the Central
Railway Company to the Central Trust Company of New
York to secure an issue of debentures—(Mr. Weldon, St.
John.)
Bill (No. 70) to incorporate the Montreal Island Railway
Company.—(Mr. Desjardins.)
Bill (No. 71) to grant certain powers to the St. John's,
and Iberville Hydraulic and Manufacturing Company.—
(Mr. Vanasse. )
Bill (No. 72) to incorporate the New York, St. Lawrence
and Ottawa Railway Company.—(Mr. Wood, Brockville.)
Bill (No. 73) respecting the Stanstead, Shefford and
Chambly Railway Company.—(Mr. Fisher.)
Bill (No. 74) to amend the Act to incorporate the
Kincardine and Teeswater Railway Company.—(Mr.
Rowand.)
Bill (N). 75) to incorporate the Ottawa and Parry
Sound Railway Company.—(Mr. Ferguson, Renfrew.)
GOVERMENT OF THE NORTH-WEST TERRITORIES.
Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD moved for leave to introduce Bill (No. 76) to amend the Revised Statutes of
Canada, chapter 50, respecting the North-West Territories.
He said : I make this motion now for the purpose of having
the Bill stand for a second reading at as early a day as
convenient after the recess, The Bill is on the lines of the
measure introduced by the hon. member for Bothwell
(Mr. Mills) when he was Minister of the Interior. It
provides that the North-West Council shall have the
character of a legislative assembly, having not less than 21
nor more than 25 members. A schedule of the constituencies is now under consideration,
and is not yet attached
to the Bill. It is proposed that the nominated members of
the council shall cease; but as there are at present
no legal men in the council, nor is there much chance
of there being many legal men in the first assembly, it is
preposed that the Government may have power to appoint
certain legal experts, not exceeding three, who shall sit and
assist in the drafting of Bills, and have the power of discussion but not the power
of voting, something like the representative delegates from the Territories in the
United States
Congress. That provision is intended to apply to the
present term of the legislative assembly; it is hoped that
in the second term some legal gentlemen may find their
way into the assembly, and enable us to do away with that
provision. It is proposed to extend the term of the
existence of the legislature from two or three years. The
qualification will remain the same, household suffrage with
the addition of an income suffrage. The Lieutenant Governor shall no longer sit with
the council or assembly, but
shall, as in the Provinces, be a separate estate, and the
assembly will be presided over as this assembly is, by a
Speaker. There is an extension of the powers of the
assembly which I need not trouble the House with now,
but the subject will be fully entered into when the Bill is
under discussion.
Mr. MILLS (Bothwell). What about executive councillors.
Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD. We do not propose to
have executive councillors. There is a proposition of that
kind in one of the petitions of the North- West Council
which is before the House, but after consideration those
gentlemen are opposed to it themselves. They say that it
is really a retrogressive step, rather than one in advance.
These are the principal features of the measure.
Mr. LAURIER. I am not aware that the resolutions of
the North-West Council with respect to this matter have
been placed before the House. If they have not been, I
suppose the hon. gentleman will place them before the
House.
Mr. MILLS (Bothwell). I am sure the House will be
glad if the hon. gentleman would afford us some further
information on this important Bill. The people in that
country have made considerable progress in number and in
the development of the country, and a government a little
more approaching that of a Province than that which at
present exists there is no doubt required; but in all our
Provinces we have parliamentary responsible government,
and I do not understand from the hon. gentleman's observations how he proposes that
the executive government
shall be carried on. The proposition he has made relates
purely to matters of legislation. Does he propose that the
Lieutenant Governor of the Territories shall have the
power of vetoing the measures of the Legislative Assembly
of the Territories? Does he propose that when the Legislature meets and passes a law
which it believes to be for the
good of the Territories, within the legislative limits
assigned to it, the Governor in Council here shall
1888.
COMMONS DEBATES. 455
have the power, by instruction, to disallow it? Does he
propose that the Lieutenant Governor of the Territories
shall have an executive council to advise him with
regard to the administration of the affairs of the Territories?
For you will observe that the powers possessed by the Governor in Council there, now
are not purely legislative
powers, but administrative and executive powers as well.
How are those administrative and executive powers to be
exercised? Are they to be exercised? by the Executive of
the Territories, acting under the advice and approval of the
majority of those whom the people have elected to represent
them? Does the hon. gentleman propose they shall act on
the advice which they may, from time to time, receive from
the Government here? Now, I say that these are matters
of the very first importance, and that before we are asked
to take any step in advance in the legislative and governmental develpment of that
country, we should note precisely what we are called upon to do; for it does seem
me to be
rather extraordinary to admit that the people of the Territory are so far advanced,
by way of organisation, into a
political and social community, as to make it necessary
that they should have what may be considered a mature
system devised for the purposes of legislation, and yet that
the legislative and administrative affairs of the country
should be in the hands of an irresponsible body. Certainly
the power of legislation and administration should go
hand in hand. If the community are entitled, and I
am inclined to think that the hon. gentleman is doing
right in recognising that they are entitled, to complete
legislative control over those matters which are exclusively assigned to them, they
should have equally independent control over the executive and administrative affairs
of the Territory, within the same limits. They should be
made commensurate with the legislative authority; they
should be governmental to the same extent, and it would be
a wholly anomalous condition of things for the executive
and administrative affairs to be directed, not in consonance
with the views of the majority of those whom the peeple
have returned to the Legislature, but should be controlled
by instructions given, from time to time, to the Lieutenant
Governor from Ottawa. That would be simply Downing- street over again. It would be
simply introducing into the
North-West Territories precisely that condition of things
which existed in Upper and Lower Canada before responsible Government was established.
They had legislative
bodies that represented the people, but they had an
executive Government that represented Downing-street,
and it would be rather a retrograde step to introduce any
analogous system of government into the North-West
Territories. I am sure the House will be anxious to know
precisely what the hon. gentleman proposes to do in this
matter.
Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD. This is, perhaps, not the
time to discuss,
in extenso, the various questions which the
hon. gentleman has raised. In the first place, I must tell
the hon. gentleman that in the North-West they have a
most holy horror of responsible government. The
representations are, I may say, without any exception,
against the premature introduction of responsible government. If the hon. gentlemen
were in the position of the
Minister of Interior, he would find that the one cry is: do
not at all at present give us a government of that kind. I
take it the assembly, although sitting separate from the
Government, will have the same administrative as well
as legislative powers which they had when under the name
of a council. The relations between the Lieutenant Governor there and the Government
here will continue to be
the same as they were before this Bill was introduced—
Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD—or the same as between
the Lieutenant Governors of the Provinces and the Gov
ernor General. All these are important matters, and I am
glad the hon. gentleman has called attention to these
points. They will be discussed more conveniently after
the Bill is in the hands of the hon. members.
Mr. MITCHELL. I can understand that a certain class
of the people in the North-West should have a holy horror
of responsible government, but, in my opinion, the experience of the past few years
shows the people there should
have a holy horror of bureaucratic government. I am glad
this question has come up for discussion. It is a very important one, not only for
the people of the North-West, but
for the people of the whole of Canada, who are interested
in seeing that administration of public affairs in the North-
West should be a little different in the future from what it
has been in the past.
Mr. MILLS (Bothwell). Now the Governor votes with
the council, and if he happens to be in the minority he is
outvoted and has to submit?
Mr. MILLS (Bothwell). But the hon. gentleman proposes, by this Bill, to separate the Governor
from the legislative body. What is his position? Has he any voice at
all in the legislative assembly?
Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD. I do not think that he
has much. I take it that the veto by the Lieutenant Governor is like the vote by the
Queen. It is, in fact, gone.
Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD. The utmost we could do,
and I think it ought to be reserved to him, is to reserve
that power.
Mr. LAURIER. Has he to sanction the Acts passed by
the Legislature?
Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD. Her Majesty sanctions
all the Bills, but she never has in Her long life exercised
the right to veto.
Mr. MILLS (Bothwell). Her Majesty is advised by those
who sit in both Houses. Now there is nobody responsible
for the legislation. The Governor exercises no control
Whatever in the initiation of measures in this assembly.
Motion agreed to, and Bill read first time.
This individual participated in:
