Mr. Ashbourne ....The money spent on schools and
teacher training has been discussed. They are both very important and
necessary, complementary to each other. We cannot allow the
children of Newfoundland to spend their days in delapidated, unhealthy
and unsanitary schools, and the Commission of Government should be
highly congratulated for embarking on school reconstruction on a big scale,
as well as in the raising of teachers' salaries, which still need further attention.
Brainy people can command good wages, and if
teaching does not offer the necessary pecuniary reward it is small
wonder that the ambitious seek other employment, where their services
are more adequately compensated. If we expect to have as leaders to train
our youth, to reap the fruits of the capabilities and talents of those
who have attained the heights of scholarship, we must be prepared
to pay salaries to induce them to remain in the teaching profession.
In some outport schools we lack teachers who can satisfactorily teach
certain languages and science. Teachers who cannot give instruction in
these subjects will be at a disadvantage and the pupils also....
With reference to common or amalgamated
schools
[3], there is a sincere desire on the part of
many to have these schools; but on examination
we find different grading of teachers. Where can
we hope to get suitable teachers for common
schools until we are assured that a uniform and
standard diploma of competency is forthcoming?
Doubt may exist regarding the qualifications of
teachers, but I feel that more co-ordination of the
various heads of the Department of Education
might be a good idea. Then the matter of ownership of these common schools comes up,
and who
is going to be responsible for their maintenance
and repairs? The present system in Newfoundland has progressed very well, but if a
concentration of the population were deemed
advisable the matter would have to be solved. It
is to be regretted that the building program has
been temporarily halted owing to lack of nails
and other building supplies. Another matter that
calls for cement is school medical examination,
which should be received by all pupils. Fortunately in Twillingate we have the Notre
Dame
Bay Memorial Hospital, and there is a clinic held
by which each student can have a free medical
examination. I believe this is the policy in vogue
in St. John's also, but I would like to see it extended to all the outports....
I would like to pay tribute to the various school
boards, as without their services I am afraid the
whole plan of education could not function so
well. I spent nine years as a member of a school
board and in that time we had to pay 90% of our
grant towards teachers salaries.
Next there is the matter of free and compul
November 1946 NATIONAL CONVENTION 165sory education. In that the government made a
step in the right direction.
[1] If pupils cannot pay
half for school books, the government should see
that they are provided free. I believe that it would
be a good move to have a university here. Also,
it is essential to have regional schools provided
in the larger outports. I regret to have heard the
figures given out yesterday, namely, that there
were 325 ungraded teachers and 1,788 graded.
This is surely the outcome of the low salaries paid
in the past; and I hope now that salaries have been
increased somewhat teachers will come forward
to get their necessary grades. Adult education has
been also mentioned and I am pleased to see the
progress made. I would like to refer to political
education; it is very necessary in Newfoundland.
We must aim at true democracy and that means
that we must be responsible for our own affairs.
But it devolves upon the government to see that
the people are educated politically so far as is
possible
Mr. Vincent As I see it, the Education Committee has done a good job.... I believe their figures
are essentially
accurate and I am quite willing to discount the Chadwick-Jones paragraph on
education in favour of theirs. They have presented a fair picture of a
very important sub, ject.... There are ever-expanding fields of improvement in education,
for everyone will agree that the
first requisite of a nation is the education of its children. The present
estimates of slightly over $3 million for education is not at all adequate
for the needs of such a sparsely populated country as ours, and, could
our economy afford it, it might be double that amount. What of the future of
the teaching profession? Are we agreed that the remuneration they
receive is sufficient, and befits their high calling? Says the report, and I
quote, "The median salary including augmentation and cost of living
bonus is for 1945, $992." The average teacher actually receives today the
modest sum of a little in excess of $82 per month for 12 months (it
must not be mistakenly supposed that a teacher doesn't eat and
spend some money in the holidays, which of course are without pay).
Mr. Hollett spoke wisely when he affirmed that teachers' salaries are
ridiculously low. I know of schools in this island with but one
teacher, trying desperately to cope with the almost insurmountable
problem of having to teach
all grades from Kindergarten to Junior Matriculation for the
fabulous sum of $45 per month plus a small augmentation. Mr. Newell stressed
yesterday that the cause of the high percentage of Ungraded teachers
was mainly due to the great shortage in the profession. The real cause for
this regrettable situation is obvious — can we expect our teachers to
continue in the calling for such a ridiculously low scale of wages? Take up
your daily paper tomorrow and you will read in the want ads — domestic
servants wanted, $35 per month (that means plus board). Is it any wonder
then that school-teachers seek other zones of employment? ....
Mr. Jackman One of the most important matters, if not the most important, we have to deal with
is education because
it deals with human value. The boys and girls of today are the men and
women of tomorrow. They constitute our greatest national asset. Our teachers
are equally important. What are we doing to see that those teachers,
whom we depend so much upon, are getting enough pay to live on in order to
educate the children of the country? I would say that we are doing
very little over this injustice. I know we, as a Convention, cannot do much
because we have not got the authority but I think this Convention should at least
try and call the attention of the people to this
very important matter. The conditions under which so many of our teachers
have to exist is scandalous. As Mr. Vincent has said, "Is it any
wonder we have a shortage of teachers?" And he struck the nail on the head
when he said it was because of small pay. I can give several examples
of that. I know a chap at Bell Island who taught school for a number of
years. He was single at the time and managed to get along, but
eventually he got married and was compelled to leave the teaching profession
and go down in the mines shovelling ore in order to feed, clothe and
educate his family....
A balanced budget at the expense of human
deprivation and suffering is not a balanced
budget at all. If the government was to balance
their budget at the expense of the teaching profession, I don't want a balanced budget....
Mr. Chairman, I beg to move that the committee of the whole place itself on record
as being
greatly dissatisifed with the present pay scale
paid our teachers, particularly those in the lower
166
NATIONAL CONVENTION
November 1946
income group, as inadequate in view of the high
cost of living, and that we feel that an immediate
revision upward in the present basic salaries
should be made, and we ask the Education Committee to include this in their report.
Mr. Hillier I have read the Education Report through
and it contains some very important information. I think the
report gives us an idea of what the expense of education will be in the
future, also that it would be necessary to have a larger amount.
In speaking of education we have to go sometimes beyond our immediate vicinity, to
look
abroad upon this country, and we will find there
are many small communities containing small
schools, and the boys and girls can never hope to
rise beyond a moderate standard of education,
because of the early age at which they are advised
to leave school. To the few is extended the opportunity to obtain an education. We
are specially
privileged in St. John's. In looking abroad again
upon the outports there is a very large number of
boys and girls whose parents have not the ways
and means to send them to St. John's or elsewhere to get an education. But in some
of these
communities there is a lot of hidden talent. So in
the large centers we must never lose sight of the
many who have not our advantages...
Mr. Burry Much has been said about the need to raise
teachers' salaries and give them a better opportunity to get a better
education and training with which I agree heartily, and would like for
the Education Department of the government to do all it can to interest
the teachers in Newfoundland. They will not be wasting money. Any
money spent will be well spent in the interest of education, but we
ought not to overlook the fact that the Commission of Government has made
great strides to increase the earning power of our teachers, and while
in the lower brackets it is rather low, and perhaps not too high in the
higher brackets, the fact is that the average teacher today is getting
much more than he or she used to get. When we make any suggestion or
recommendation to increase the salaries of teachers we ought
to avoid using too harsh phrases such as "ridiculously low salaries";
because they are not so ridiculously low today... I want every member of
the Convention to understand me properly. I
am not trying to discourage any effort to increase the salaries of
teachers, but looking over this table I find that it refers to 1944, and
there are only two teachers getting less than $300 a year, and 196
teachers getting less than $500 or $600 a year. We all know that does not
refer to the total amount that is paid to these teachers, because the
cost of living bonus is not included, and the augmentation is not included.
I am given to understand that there is no graded teacher employed
with an augmented salary of less than $660 for the school year. I
don't know if the Committee will bear that out or not in their findings, but
if that is so perhaps such words as "ridiculously low salaries" may
not be used without bearing this in mind.
Any increase in salaries that can be given in
the future ought to be given, but we ought to bear
in mind that the salaries at the present time are
not so very low compared with the past, and with
what young people in St. John's and the outports
earn in other callings. Perhaps that is not a fair
comparison, but I am trying to avoid giving the
public or the possible teachers the idea that they
are not going to be paid at all no matter what
grade they may get. We want to do all we can to
get the young people to come into the teaching
profession...
Mr. Starkes The report by the Education Committee, is to my mind, not very encouraging to say
the least....
Let us look at the figures brought by our
Education Committee. For the year l921-22
when our expenditure was around $10 million we
spent roughly $817,177, 8% of our total expenditure
[1] ; in other words $24.35 per student. This
was spent 25 years ago, and after 25 years of
progress and advancement in education, this year
1946-47, with an estimated expenditure of over
$34 million, the Commission of Government estimates spending around $3 1/2 million
only, or
10%....
Mr. Newell Mr. Chairman, before we go any further in
this discussion of teachers' salaries, there are one or two things that I
have to point out. One is that the figures given on page 7, contrary
to the opinion expressed by the delegate from Labrador, do include the cost
of living bonus... These are the average salaries up to
November 1946
NATIONAL CONVENTION
167 1944. I regret we did not read these tables yesterday all together, because some
of these matters might have
been straightened out as we went along. We are apt to pick out an item and
overlook the real purpose for which these figures were
given. I did not have, at the time of submitting these tables, the figures
for 1945. The report of the Department of Education was delivered to me
a few minutes ago, and, if you wish, I can give you some figures for
1945, which will make the position somewhat brighter.
Page 7, paragraph 6. First of all there are no
figures for June 30, 1946. They have not yet been
compiled statistically.... While we have not any
definite assurance from the department, it is probable that these teachers were only
working for six
months. Also in 1944 there were 31 teachers
getting between $300 and $400. There were none
so low as these in 1945. Also in 1944 there were
some getting between $400 and $500, and there
were none in 1945. In other words there were 273
teachers getting less than $500, whereas in 1945
there are none. That makes the situation quite
different. It is regrettable that we did not have this
report before...
Mr. Bailey Mr. Chairman, no one in this world knows worse
than myself the lack of an education. At 20 years of age I had to
take copy books and learn to write, so I did not get much of a start in
life. I am glad that we have this before the Convention and before the
people, because it's the first chance I have had to learn about education in this
country as it is.
I have watched closely the statistics in different countries where I have been, more
particularly in the United States, and I have come to
the conclusion, not only in Newfoundland but in
other parts, that teachers are the very poorest paid
people in the world... I totally agree with this
report in every way, and firmly believe that we
cannot cut expenditure down, if anything it
should be raised up.
I am not in sympathy with the system of
education in this country, especially in the outports. A lad in St. John's has got
a chance, but
under the system in the outports he has not. If we,
along with two or three other spots in the world,
have a different education system from the rest,
surely all the world can't be wrong and we right?
We have three denominational schools, in my
home town today. One teacher has somewhere
between 40 and 50 children between the grades
of four and eleven, and another has about 15
between the grades of Kindergarten and eleven,
and just alongside another teacher has a school of
11 children. Consequently it is likely there won't
be more than two or three children in that village
that will make the grade. It is utterly impossible
for a teacher to get through because he has too
much on his hands.
I firmly believe our system of education is
costing us at least half a million dollars too much.
Probably our people are back where some
countries were 150 years ago. It is not the fault of
the country, there has been a real earnest endeavour to adjust to more modern ideas.
I think
this should be stressed strongly, that we should
get together and cut out the cost of the overhead,
and if we can't increase the money, I believe it is
up to every Newfoundlander to see that this system is changed as quickly as possible,
so that our
children can go out into the world equipped for
their jobs.
I know a man who left one of our outports a
number of years ago, and although he started
from scratch, by the time he was 35 years old he
was head of one of the largest construction firms
in the United States. I know what can be done,
and I know what is being done in various parts of
the world. I believe if we put in the Scotch system
of education it would not be so expensive. There
is nobody today that can face the world better
than the Scotchman. If you go into a shipyard in
the States every second man there is Mac, the
architect, the manager, the office worker, because he is the best equipped for every
job. In the
far-flung parts of the Empire, everywhere you
will find the Scot. If he comes from the Hebrides
or wherever he comes from, it is all the same, they
are all educated and can take their university
course, and wherever he goes he can carry on his
education and pick up everything necessary. That
is why Scotland today has the smallest percentage of illiteracy in the world. I believe
something
can be done in this country; after all, it is what
Newfoundland desires today.
Mr. Smallwood I have a great deal of admiration for the gentlemen in the Department of Education
- for their
enthusiasm on the job, for the extent to which they have successfully
hounded more and more money out of the Commission of Government, I
give them credit for it.
168
NATIONAL CONVENTION
November 1946 I think it is only fair for someone to say
a word also for the education authorities before Commission
of Government came here at all. You will notice that the Education
Committee's report drove a peg in, and dealt with the period from that
peg. That peg was 1921-22, which was around the time that the Department of
Education was set up. That department was set up with Dr. Arthur Barnes as the first
Minister of Education. Dr. Barnes is still living
at Bay Roberts, extremely active mentally and physically,
extremely interested still in education and in the affairs of
Newfoundland. He is one of the greatest Newfoundlanders we
have ever had in the field of education.... I do not remember the year, but
I do remember the time when the total expenditure of public money on
education in Newfoundland reached the shocking amount of half a million
dollars, considered by the education people in this country to be a
magnificent achievement. Beginning with the creation of the department the
total amount of public money earmarked for education began to rise
steadily and almost unbrokenly, up to the very moment when the
impact of the world depression was felt. So for that reason, the
Education Committee wisely and fairly made its study of the
progress of education, at least materially, over the priod 1921-22 up to the
present time.
Turn to page 3 of that report and you will
notice that total expenditure rose steadily from
1921-22 year by year until it reached $1 million
in 1930-31.... This increase in expenditure, this
growth in the education plant, is nothing spectacular; it is not a thing that began
with Commission of Government. This process of spending a
larger proportion of money on it began before
1921-22; it has been a process practically continuous. We ought to give credit to
the pioneers
in education and especially to Dr. Barnes and Dr.
Burke, who has just retired; also to Dr. Blackall
and Dr. Curtis who worked and sacrificed to
build education into what it is today.
Mr. Hollett It is refreshing to hear Mr. Smallwood referring to the good men no longer in the
limelight; I am sure we
have had some grand men in the past. There is one thing in Mr. Smallwood's remarks
referring to the expenditures in 1921-22 — I
do not know if I heard him correctly — if you look at the percentage it was
8.1 in 1921-22, and in 1946 10.41.
Mr. Smallwood I am aware of the percentages in the
third column; but 8.1% of the total revenue is very much more money than
10.41% of the revenue of 1946-47. That is the point I am making.
Relatively it is much more money.
Mr. Starkes In 1921 when the revenue was $10.5 million
our education grant was $817,000, and now the Commission of Government with
a revenue of $34 million are spending 2% less on education than what
was spent 25 years ago: 12% of our expenditure went on education.
Mr. Hollett So far as I can see the percentage being
spent now is greater.
Mr. Newell Assuming that the expenditure was $10
million 25 years ago, the percentage spent was 8.1%, I make it.
Mr. Chairman I think it better to defer this point, as
Mr. Figary, who possesses one of the few books with accurate figures, is
absent from the session.
Mr. Harrington I am not interested in any exercises of arithmetic as I think it is a waste of time.
I did not propose
to say anything on this report as I was a member of the committee....
Nevertheless, there was one point raised by two speakers
and that was the system of education. It was agreed at the outset that the
current system was the most desirable, and I would like to go on
record as being unalterably in favour of the present system because it is
the best that could be devised. The history of this country shows that
before there was any attempt made by any governmental authorities, the
churches stepped into the breach and gave us what educational
facilities we have at the present time, and I am quite convinced that, under
conditions as they are in the country today, the present system is the best
under the circumstances, and it does not come within our province as a
Convention to interfere and supplant it by any means.
Mr. Hollett With regard to Mr. Jackman's resolution, at
the outset let me say that I am all in favour of giving teachers a living
wage; but you will remember this Convention only has power to
recommend, but not to demand.
Mr. Jackman I made the motion in good faith, and I
thought there might be a recommendation go to the government on behalf of
the teachers; but I would not urge to have it incorporated in the
report.
Mr. Miller I oppose Mr. Jackman's motion for
November 1946
NATIONAL CONVENTION
169 two reasons. First because it is beyond the power of
the Convention to approach the issue in such a manner; and secondly because
the motion depends entirely upon statistics instead of a complete survey of the
background. The matter of raising the scale of wages
should be left to the authorities concerned. I would advise the Convention to be
cautious unless it was equipped
with complete knowledge.
Mr. Jackman I realise how limited our authority is. The issue is purely a moral one and it is
only asking that such
important persons as school teachers be paid enough to live on.
Mr. Chairman The motion is that the Report of the
Education Committee be received.
Mr. Cashin Mr. Chairman, this report has been in the
hands of delegates for about ten days and I would like to go ahead with it
now and get it cleaned up. Monday
[2] is a holiday
and there will be no sitting, and if the members of the Convention want we can sit
tonight in order to get this thing finished as soon
as possible. Whatever members ask for I will accommodate them to the
best of my ability. The report covers the whole forestry situation,
including the pulp and paper industry and saw mills, The committee took an
overall picture of the whole country to try and bring out as
accurately as we could the caming power we get from paper, pulp and local
lumbering industries in Newfoundland.
Mr. Cashin There's around 50 million feet of lumber cut
annually by our own sawmills, and we had gentlemen on the Committee who had
a good idea of the price of lumber, sawing, loading, etc. They figure
about $35 a thousand, and lumber is selling today in St. John's for about
$65. By the time you pay freight, etc., the man who actually produces
it, if he had to do all these things, cut, saw, etc., would make $35 a
thousand on it. That is how we estimated the earning power of the men
engaged in cutting, sawing, etc. That is approximate.
Mr. Smallwood Mr. Chairman, if you will turn to page
11, sec. 7.... Would you give us the basis of that belief?
Mr. Cashin If you will notice the papers, particularly here in St. John's, it is announced every
week. Building here is
increasing constantly, and they are going to require more lumber, and therefore it
will require more work in cutting, sawing,
manufacturing, and we figure that therefore the earning power will
increase.
Mr. Higgins Mr. Chairman, I wonder if Major Cashin
would pass a comment on this. I notice in today's issue of the
Evening Telegram that the editor comments
on the report and says it is very fine in every way, he says:
In one important particular, however, the
figures quoted are at least open to question.
It states that there are in Newfoundland
22,000 square miles of timberland under
leases. Out of the total area of 42,000 square
miles, that would represent fifty percent or,
excluding the area comprised of lakes and
rivers, given in the report as one third of the
total, seventy-five per cent of the whole land
area in the island. So far as this paper is
aware, there are no survey figures available
to show what proportion of Newfoundland's
surface is timberland, but if the surveys made
in Canada to determine the extent of its
forested lands may be regarded as a criterion,
either the forest growth in this country is
phenomenal or the figures are fantastic.
I don't know if there is any basis for that.
Mr. Cashin In connection with that, I think it is
agreed that one third of the island is composed of lakes, rivers, etc., and
a lot of these are included in the leased land, and we got that information
from the Department of Natural Resources. They gave us an idea, as
closely as they could, on the amount of timber on these lands, It is figured
today that the two pulp and paper companies, who control practically
all the leasehold land in the country, have roughly between 45 and 50
million cords of wood in these areas. The two companies have between them
around 20,000
170
NATIONAL CONVENTION
November 1946 square miles of timber land, which includes
lakes, Grand Lake, Gander Lake, etc. They are paying rental on water
as well as on land, I am pretty certain. I will let you know that the next
day we meet.
Mr. Smallwood On Page 8, under "Birch," the last
paragraph.... What does that mean?
Mr. Cashin Referring to the pulp and paper companies,
there is considerable bitch on their property. They will not allow us to go
in and cut where they are cutting at the present time, but I
understand that they are only too delighted for the people to go in and cut
on what has already been cut over. By "material assistance" I don't mean
that the government should finance that venture, but they should
encourage it by tariffs, etc. We have found out that there are markets in
Canada, as well as in the United States, for birch. It is a wood which
is very difficult to handle because it is very heavy, but at the same time
the opportunity is there for men making furniture, veneer,
etc., and I understand that quite an industry can be developed in that. I
think Messrs. Wm. Dawe and Sons did export some of that over 20 years
ago. I did not mean that it should be financed, but that it should be
encouraged.
Mr. Higgins On page 2, Major Cashin, of the report, you
say there is $360,000 collected in revenue at Grand Falls. Is it suggested
that that is from the wood working?
Mr. Cashin Prior to the inauguration of the paper mill
at Grand Falls there was no revenue there. We attributed that to the fact
that when Grand Falls was built up it brought in revenue in other
ways. Buchans has a customs department in its own place. If you
will go on further there was over $1 million collected in Corner
Brook, and no doubt the herring fishery contributes a lot in the
way of revenue, and if the pulp and paper industry had never been started we
would have had considerable revenue....
Mr. Fudge In connection with this matter of birch, I
may add that early last year I was called to the office of Bowaters
[1] and Mr. Shaw informed me that there
was an outside concern interested in the birch, and that they were
prepared to erect a mill or a factory which would employ some 150 men. We
went on further to discuss the wage rate and it was all agreed upon. l
am not in a position to state to this Convention
just what will happen, but when we were preparing this
report we took that as a possibility. I believe that there will soon be an
industry opened, an American outfit, and that they will employ about
150 men in their factory there. The birch will be made into veneer I
believe.
Mr. Dawe I believe there is a market for birch.
Mr. Smallwood On page 8 again, Mr. Chairman,
under the heading of "Labrador", in the second paragraph, there has been no
reliable survey made of the amount of timber on Labrador and
the opinions vary. What estimates, or whose?
Mr. Cashin I have seen various surveys of Labrador areas,
some were not so good, others fairly good. I happened to see an aerial survey
of Labrador some years ago, but I am not able to express an opinion as
to the amount of wood in the various areas, but some people say 100 million cords.
Other people say 50 million cords. There was a
survey in Hamilton Inlet some years ago, and the gentleman in charge down
there figured 50 million cords. I have seen the survey of the Sandwich
Bay area and Eagle River on properties owned by the McMaster interests of
Toronto, and these areas have over 10 million cords of wood. I know that
the Hamilton River is heavily timbered. I would say that in those 300
sq. miles there is some 1.5 to 2 million cords of wood. There is also
the Double Mer property. A survey was made some 30 years ago and shows
it carries 6 million cords of wood. I believe there is only 2 million on
it.
Adding them all together, Mr. Smallwood, I
have no hesitation in saying there is at least 50
million cords on it. I don't think there is 100
million cords but 1 hope so.
Mr. Hollett I might say that I read this report through
when it was presented and remember I noticed there was a noticeable lack of
statistics with regard to the earnings of our people generally from forestry, and
of the amounts of revenue collected by the government
down through the years. It would have been wiser if the Forestry
Committee had brought in some statistics over a period of years since
they would give us a broader idea of the value of our forests and our
financial and economic set-up, and also the possibilities for the
future. I can find nothing in this report which shows me those figures. I
wonder if Major Cashin can tell me why.
November 1946 NATIONAL CONVENTION 171
Mr. Cashin In reply to Mr. Hollett, the government gets around $18 - 20,000 a year from those
sources. There are
estimates of the earning power of the pulp and paper mills, sawmills, and
the cutting of pit props, etc. We want to get an idea of the forecast
for the future. I refer particularly to the pulp and paper industry because
it has been publicly announced in recent months, that Grand Falls is
expanding, and also Corner Brook, and it is fairly easy, to figure out the
earning power from these two sources. The thing was to get the earning
power accruing to the country at the present time for wood sawn locally, and
build up the total earning power of the people annually for all forest
work.
I know there are plenty of loopholes in this
report, and we are only too pleased to have any
further information because I don't believe any
report coming in here will be perfect. But it is the
best we can do, and we can't all be on the same
committee.
Mr. Hollett I would like to know the value in wages
paid over the years, of our forests, and in revenues collected by the
government as a result of forest operations. If we had that over a period
of years, from 1921 down to the present time, it would give us a clear
picture to show just what advance has been made and what hope there is
for the future.
Mr. Cashin In connection with revenues that might have
been collected in the past 20 years, the Customs can't give it to you; it's
impossible and we could only make a guess at it....
Mr. Smallwood The point raised by Mr. Hollett. The AND Company could tell you for the period
beginning with their
first year almost to date what they expended year by year.... Bowaters
can do the same thing from the beginning.... There seems here to
be a number of estimates and statements made without any supporting evidence whatever.
The supporting evidence undoubtedly is there,
but we are asked to accept it on faith, without the production by the
Committee of the evidence on which they based those conclusions. You take on
page 10 again, section 3 and 4. I am beginning now to guess that it
has to do with the new machinery going in. Does it also refer to wage
earning employees, or does it include them and woods operators?
Mr. Cashin Everything. In the thirties when the
newsprint industry was in the doldrums I was told they figured that to
produce a ton of newsprint it cost about $25 in labour. Well you all know
that the cost has gone sky high since that. That's why we based our
figures that way, it costs roughly $25 a ton.
Mr. Smallwood Another thing to which I would like to
draw your attention, a matter of vital importance. You refer here to the
three mile limit,
[1] and you say that large parts
of it have been denuded, which is largely the case. I am especially familiar with
it in parts of Bonavista Centre, which
overflows into Bonavista North, from Hare Bay up to Gambo, where there is no
wood left, not a scrap. The people down there have sent a petition to
the government, drawing their attention to the fact that at the
present time the three mile limit is cut out completely, and immediately
adjacent are paper areas. I rather expected the report to contain a
reference to the serious situation that had arisen in many parts
of the country where the three mile limit had been almost completely cut out. The
only timber remaining is that owned by the paper
companies, and small sawmill men have got to go in on the
companies' land to cut, and pay royalties for so doing. Many such
cases have happened in Bonavista Centre and Bonavista North. I know also of
one or two cases where the government actually swapped Crown land
limits for the convenience of Bowaters. I have in my possession a number of
letters from Dark Cove and contiguous places around Gambo dealing with
this same matter. It seems that the government did the swapping to provide
the grounds for the statement that the output for local sawmills would
increase.
Mr. Cashin The increase is to be expected as a result
of the increase in building and construction. At present there are
only 5 million cords of wood left on Crown lands in the country.
Mr. Burry The conditions obtaining in Newfoundland, as pointed out by Mr. Smallwood, to the
detriment of small mill
owners and fishermen, have not become as bad in Labrador as yet, but it
is becoming so, and where the Labrador Development Co. is
operating the fishermen tell me that they have to go far afield in order to
procure timber with which to build boats and stages. I think this is
worth considering seriously now, before it gets too far. Besides it is one
of the ways
172
NATIONAL CONVENTION
November 1946 to conserve Labrador.
Mr. Higgins I wonder if the committee would consider
rising now and sitting tonight, and then probably tomorrow we will be able
to finish this report....
[The committee of the whole adjourned until 8
pm]
Mr. Vardy Mr. Chairman, as there were several
complaints about the Education Report when it was discussed in committee, I
suggest that the Forestry Report be read section by section so that
the contents can be better digested.
[The Asst. Secretary read from the report]
Mr. Smallwood With regard to paragraph 1, I wonder if
Mr. Cashin could tell us the number of square miles of timber held?
Mr. Cashin 22,000 square miles of timber area in the
whole country by the two companies, including the water surface
within those areas.
Mr. Smallwood What does that mean and how did they get
their timber areas?
Mr. Cashin Most of it was held on 99-year leases and
could not well be changed while the leases are in existence, but many of the
leases came into possession of the Grand Falls Company
[1] through purchase either from the Reid
Newfoundland Company, under the railway deal of 1898
[2], or from private individuals, including Mr. H.J. Crowe, who
had several pieces of timber lands in those areas and sold his
rights to the Grand Falls people after the commencement of the
development in 1905. The rate of $2 per square mile was the annual fee paid
for the fee simple areas and this was part of the terms of the leases.
Mr. Smallwood It is stated in the 4th paragraph of the
report that timber areas are licensed for 99 years. Is that statutory and
unchangeable?
Mr. Cashin It is statutory. Probably you might remember
in 1931 action was taken because some people had not complied with the terms
of their leases and they lost out.
Mr. Smallwood How does that compare with the Crown land
leases in Canada and in the United States?
Mr. Cashin Take the province of Quebec for example, the
Crown gets $1.65 per cord stumpage. There have been cases in Quebec
where the government sold outright to big com
panies at high
prices, but generally the charge is $1.65 per cord stumpage or $1.65 per
square foot of forest. A good square mile of timber land should have
3,500 cords of wood for each square mile of forest.
Mr. Smallwood Would Mr. Cashin be able to say
definitely if that is unchangeable?
Mr. Cashin My opinion is yes, but I have not checked on
it.
Mr. Crosbie What is the natural reafforestation per
year in Newfoundland?
Mr. Cashin Grand Falls has been operating for over 40
years and has not been recut since. It is generally known in Canada to be 60
years.
Mr. Crosbie I understand that 3% of the total growth is
the figure roughly estimated for
reforestation in Newfoundland. If that is so, there must be a million cords of
wood dying on its feet.
Mr. Cashin We discussed that matter at our meetings, and
decided that if the natural regrowth is about 50 years, something should be
done in order to guard against possible denudation of timber resources.
Whilst we were getting information about this son of thing, we
also learned what was being done to protect the forests from fires. The
railway is spending $500,000 to convert coal burning locomotives
into oil burners to prevent bush fires.
Mr. Ashbourne I notice that there is around $50,000
paid for granted property in rentals, and I was wondering if any of that
amount is included for Labrador.
Mr. Cashin I understand there are 30,000 miles under
lease on Labrador, so that the total income from rentals there would be
$20,000, and $30,000 from Newfoundland.
Mr. Harrington What we the paper companies actually
paying for what they are getting?
Mr. Cashin The government had no survey records of
timber land, and information regarding figures could only be obtained from
the companies concerned.
Mr. Higgins drew my attention to an editorial in the
Evening Telegram this evening which
questioned the report's statement of the timber owned by the AND Company.
But if you take 30% off for wastage you will find a different story.
November 1946 NATIONAL CONVENTION 173
Mr. McCarthy Is there any pulpwood cut within the three
mile limit? And is it being used locally?
Mr. Burry I would like to know if there is any regulation
governing the size of the stump remaining after a tree is cut.
Mr. Cashin Yes, there is a regulation of a certain specified size, but I cannot explain it in
detail. Mr. Fudge In all
Bowaters' camps they have a height posted up and I think that the stumpage
is not to exceed 12 inches. But I think small contractors
cut everything in their way, regardless of size.
Mr. Smallwood I wonder if the production of cellulose
is contemplated by the AND Company, as I know they had it under
consideration in years past. I have here the wages and figures given by
the AND Company showing that from 1907 to 1940 the expenditure in
wages and salaries in Newfoundland was $76 million; local purchases
$14 million; railway freights $4¹/₂ million and so forth. Now I happen to
know that that company has been giving these figures year by year from
the beginning and they could give them up to the present year. The same
thing applies with Bowaters at present. Their figures under wages and
salaries and under other headings for the years 1923 to 1940 amounted to $86
million, as compared with $105 million by the AND Company in
expenditure from 1907 to 1940. Would the convenor of this committee
undertake to get these figures up to the present?
Mr. Cashin When we were preparing this report we had to
be guided by our terms of reference, and were concerned with getting a
picture of the economic and financial position of the country. I have
no doubt but that the figures asked for will be made available for us by the
companies concerned, although I do not think they have any
great bearing on the country....
Mr. Hollett I think it is most important and desirable
that we have all the statistical information possible before us to
aid us in our work.
Mr. Cashin Would not the figures in the Chadwick-Jones report be of some assistance?
Mr. Hollett I would rather not rely on that for
reference, particularly dealing with Grand Falls where I have lived for some
time. I would like to know with some degree of definiteness the num
ber of employees the AND Company have; the wages paid;
the amount for local purchases and the amount of duty paid, so that we can
see what value that company is to the country and to the revenue.
Another desirable thing to know is if that company hopes to make anything
else besides paper during their term in this country. In
other countries such companies are making other wood products. If the AND
Company or Bowaters cannot do that, let us get other companies to
operate here and let us get the best we can out of the industry. However, 1
do think that if the Committee had an interview with the AND Company more necessary
information would be forthcoming to work
on.
Mr. Cashin We would undertake to do that and have the
information obtained embodied in a supplementary report, which it is
proposed to bring in.
[There followed a discussion on how the Convention might obtain additional information
on the newsprint industry. The section on reafforestation was discussed briefly.]
Mr. Cashin We were fortunate in having as convenor of
the Committee, Mr. Fudge, who is connected with the union on the west coast
and I would suggest that Mr. Fudge would reply to anything in
connection with the labour situation of the pulp and paper industry. Mr.
Brown, who is unfortunately ill, was also a member of the Committee
and he was also connected with the labour unions.
Mr. Fudge "It is a well-known fact that during
depression years wages paid our woodsmen and other employees throughout this
particular industry were little better than sufficient to keep
body and soul together." That is correct. in 1937 when I came into the
union which I represent,
[1]
the wages paid for a 10 hour day were $1.60; and the cutting of wood
by contract was from 90 cents to not exceeding $1.50 per cord. The wages in
1945-46 were $5.30 a day for a 10 hour day; cutters $3.60 per cord.
All other rates were jacked up in proportion. If I remember, the board rate
was 75 cents per day, and out of $1.60 you have some idea of what was
left. Today they get $5.30 and the board rate is 80 cents per day. I would
like to say that the agreement which exists between the
union and the paper companies automatically dies on April 10,
1947; whereupon a
174
NATIONAL CONVENTION
November 1946 new wage agreement will, I hope, be made up
and we are looking forward to a further increase.
Mr. Hollett Can you give us the approximate earnings of
woodcutters during the past season? I know they varied considerably,
depending on the ability of the woodcutters. Could you give us the
approximate figure?
Mr. Fudge I am speaking of the Bowater operations. We find that the average cut per man is
1 1/2 cords; he is paid not
less than $3.86 on an average. You will find the average has increased,
and the reason is because the men have better accommodations and
better food and are therefore better able to do a day's work. The
average days' work in the woods per month is around 23 working days.
Mr. Ballam The figures quoted here are average. I think
the earnings of many men are much higher. You will always find that there
are some who work better than others. They can clear $5 a day less one
cent, that is the general overall average. There are fellows who have a
chance of making $10 or $12 a day. There are fellows who make that
average for months on end. They are extra good cutters. On a general average
they clear $5 a day.
Mr. Fudge I do not want to offend my friend, but I do
not think that is correct. A logger does not clear $12 a day on an average.
There are deductions for board and medical fees. They have to buy
blankets and shirts.
Mr. Hollett While we are on this particular
paragraph I rise to pay tribute to the work being done by the Woods
Labour Board in connection with wages in the woods. If it had not been for
that board and for the chairman
[1] who looked
after their interests, we would have had considerable trouble in
Newfoundland during war years.... In Grand Falls, I have known bodies of men
who worked together in harmony and I wish to pay tribute to these
unions in Grand Falls. It is only by the companies and the unions getting
together that we can have harmony in woods operations and for that
matter in all operations throughout the country.
Mr. Fudge There is another thing I would like to
mention — forest fires. I remind the delegates that when you take into
consideration the number of men working in the companies' woods during
the summer months, and compare the number of tires, you will be surprised to
hear that very seldom do we get a fire caused by woodsmen. There was
only one year that we had two fires and there is, at times, anywhere from
5,000 to 6,000 men engaged in the forest industry and I should say
most of those men make little fires to boil their kettles and get their
lunch twice a day, and it is remarkable to see how careful the
woodsman is in protecting the forest. We should not forget them when
bringing in this report.
[There was some discussion of the section on local sawmills and the export of pitprops.
The committee of the whole then rose and reportezi progress. The Convention adjourned]
