Assembly Chamber, Upper Fort Garry
Monday, 9 May 1870
The President took the chair at half-past three o'clock P.M.
Routine business having been transacted,
The President addressed the Assembly, making the following allusion to the question of creating
a Senate. It was neither proposed nor attempted, he said, to force the consideration
of that question on the Assembly. Such a course would only make the Executive — what
we do not desire it to be — sole master. The question came before the House as a suggestion
from the Executive, and, by a resolution of certain hon. members, the question now
comes up for the decision of the House in one way or another; and I have no doubt
when you have taken the matter into consideration, carefully, conscientiously, and
with good feeling, that the decision arrived at will be for the best,— whether for,
or against. Another question to which I would like to direct the attention of members
of the Assembly is that of roads and bridges and the necessary appropriations therefore.
Hon. Mr. O'Donoghue — I would wish to state that some of the superintendents of roads last year have
applied to me for payment. Also that there is a balance of money due to other officials,
whose accounts have been made up in the books of the Governor and Council, to December
first. I would like to be instructed what to do in these cases.
Hon. Mr. T. Sinclair moved that all public officials be paid the full amount due by the Governor and Council
of Assiniboia — No seconder.
Hon. Mr. O'Donoghue — Up to what date? As far as the road superintendents are concerned, if anything
was done after the first of November, they must of course testify to the accuracy
of their accounts in that respect. Money expended in this way for the public benefit
must, of course, be paid. As to the other public officials, their accounts are made
up to December first. As Hon. Mr. Sinclair's motion is not seconded, I would move
— That, so far as Magistrates, Constables, and Collectors of Customs are concerned,
they be paid up to the time the books were closed by the Governor and Council of Assiniboia,
on the first of December, and that no officials be paid after that period except such
as have been in the public service all the time, such as post masters; and that whatever
amount the road superintendents may have paid out of their own pockets in the public
interest, shall, if still due them, be paid by the public. My reason for mentioning
December first is that the half year ended at that date, and all the public officials
I have spoken to, seemed to be satisfied with getting paid up to that time.
Hon. Mr. McKay agreed with Hon. Mr. O'Donoghue that if the public officials were paid up to December
first they ought to be satisfied. He (McKay) thought it only right, and supposed that
soon the Government would be sending round to collect last year's import duties.
Hon. Mr. Bannatyne — Is it clear that we have the right to collect import duties on goods brought in
long before December first? The old Government, it seems to me, ought to settle its
accounts; and all we have to do is to legislate from December first.
Hon. Mr. Bunn — It does not signify very much with reference to the public interest, what Government
does the business for the public. This money is due the public and the fact of a previous
Government not collecting it, forms no reason why we should not do so.
Hon. Mr. O'Donoghue — I do not think that Hon. Mr. Bannatyne's proposition would prove very acceptable
to the public. Of last year's duty a very small amount indeed found its way into the
public exchequer. Somewhere about £3,500 still remain to be collected. The public
are therefore so much the poorer and the importers so much the richer.
Hon. Mr. Bannatyne — My argument was used rather to assist Hon. Mr. O'Donoghue and Hon. Mr. Bunn. I
think the money still due ought to be collected. But if we collect money up to the
first of June for imports that took place before this Government was in being, will
not the public officials have a right to demand payment up to first June? They will
say that if they did not work, it is because they were not called on.
Hon. Mr. O'Donoghue — If a man contracts for work and does not do it, he has no right to be paid. Since
the first December no officer of the old Government has exercised any authority except
the Postmaster. There has been no civil law in force since that period. All the work
of the public officials did not, perhaps, extend farther than the first November,
but we allow them payment up to first December, and wish that they express themselves
satisfied.
Hon. Mr. Schmidt argued that it was not correct to ask for payment for work which had not been done.
Up to first December he was willing to see the public officials paid.
The President — We will be glad to abide by the decision of the House in this matter. But hon.
gentlemen need not be led away with the idea that the Provisional Government are in
duty bound to pay the salaries proposed. It is not a matter of duty at all.
After [this] debate,
Hon. Mr. O'Donoghue's motion was put and carried.
On motion of
Hon. Mr. Bunn, seconded by
Hon. Mr. Bannatyne, the House resolved itself into committee of the whole to take into consideration
the appropriation of a certain sum of money for the public roads.— Hon. Mr. O'Donoghue
in the chair.
Hon. Mr. Bannatyne then moved that the sum of £400 sterling be appropriated for roads and bridges in
the following districts:—
"From Pembina to Fort Garry £100; from Portage la Prairie to Fort Garry £100; from
Fort Garry to the end of St. Andrew's district, on the west side of the river, £100;
from Fort Garry downwards on the east side of the river to the end of the district
£50 sterling; from Fort Garry to Oak Point £50 sterling."
Hon. Mr. DeLorme said it was necessary to have a bridge at Scratching River. A small one might be
built which would not cost more than twelve or fifteen pounds sterling and as for
the bridge at Riviere Sale, which had cost so much, not a vestige of it was left.
A larger appropriation was necessary,— say twenty-five pounds sterling more.
Hon. Mr. Schmidt moved in amendment that the sum of fifty pounds sterling more be appropriated for
the road between Pembina and Fort Garry. This was a road used a good deal by all the
settlers and many bridges on it had been swept away.
The Chairman urged an extra appropriation for this road, as it was one a
great deal used by all the settlers and one or two of the bridges had broken down.
Hon. Mr. Hay had nothing to urge against further appropriation for the
road above, but if anything like full appropriations were to be asked for, the road
below would need an extra appropriation as it was in very bad order. It had nearly
twenty bridges, some of which were entirely down, and not one was fit to travel over.
Hon. Mr. Bannatyne — For twenty years past they have had a bridge over the Riviere Sale, which cost
fifty pounds sterling, but now it is swept away. A bridge of any use can hardly be
made over that river,— perhaps a scow would be an improvement.
Hon. Mr. DeLorme strongly objected to putting a scow on the river. An ordinary, small bridge, which
would not cost much, would suffice, and prove less costly and more serviceable than
a scow. In seasons when the river was very low, the latter would be entirely worthless.
At the suggestion of hon. members and by consent of the House,
Hon. Mr. Bannatyne amended his motion by making the appropriation from Pembina to Fort Garry £125, and
explained that the appropriation now asked for was not a final one, but merely for
the present session.
Some hon. gentlemen having spoken of the absurdity of endeavoring to keep in good
repair the road and bridges beyond Scratching River and urged that the Minister of
Public Works could not possibly be held accountable for accidents resulting from the
want of repairs in a quarter outside the travelled roads in the Settlement,
Hon. Mr. Schmidt urged that the Riviere aux Marais, near Pembina was in the Fort Garry district, and
as such any bridging or repairs there ought to come within the sphere of labor assigned
to the Commissioner of Public Works.
Hon. Mr. Bunn objected and held that it would be unfair to make the Commissioner of Public Works
responsible for the condition of roads so far off.
Hon. Mr. Bannatyne asked to be allowed further to alter his motion by substituting the words "Scratching
River" for "Pembina." This made the first-mentioned road extend from and inclusive
of Scratching River to Fort Garry.
The Chairman suggested that perhaps the best way would be to appropriate the one hundred and twenty-five
pounds sterling for the road from Scratching River and the fifty pounds sterling for
the Oak Point and Point Coupee roads — to be expended where the Minister of Public
Works found it to be most needed.
At the suggestion of
Hon. Mr. McKay the motion was further altered by the appropriation of twenty-five pounds sterling
more for the Point Coupee and Oak Point districts, across the river.
Amendment carried.
The motion as amended was then put and carried in the following shape:—
"That the sum of £450 sterling be appropriated for roads and bridges in the following
districts:
From Scratching River to Fort Garry £125 sterling.
From Portage la Prairie to Fort Garry £100 sterling.
From Fort Garry on the west side of the Red River down to the end of the Lower District
£100 sterling.
From the Company's store downwards, on the east side, to the end of the district £50
sterling.
From the Company's store upwards to Oak Point and Pointe Coupee £75 sterling."
The Committee rose and reported the adoption of the resolution as amended, and the
report was received and concurred in.
Hon. Mr. Poitras contended that in that case the appropriation was far too little.
The President explained that the appropriation was merely for the present session.
The report was then adopted, and
the President signified his intention of appropriating the amount.
Hon. Mr. O'Donoghue desired to know what salary was to be paid Magistrates and Constables and when it
was to reckon from. Last session a bill passed providing that the salaries of all
public officials should remain the same until altered by the Legislature. Martial
law, they were aware, had been proclaimed last December, and it was only since last
Friday the country came under civil law, as the President had announced.
It was ultimately agreed that these and other matters which were mentioned should
be left to be settled by the Executive.
The Senate question then came up.
Hon. Mr. Touron, seconded by
Hon. Mr. Hay, then moved — that further consideration of the Question regarding a Senate be postponed
till next session — Carried.
The President then closed the session, and intimated that in the event of anything official coming
from the Commissioners in Canada, he might call a special session of the Legislature.
This individual participated in:
