Assembly Chamber, Upper Fort Garry
Thursday, 5 May 1870
The President having opened the House at half-past two P.M., called Hon. Mr. Bunn
to the chair.
The minutes having been read and approved, the House resumed the consideration of
the Law Committee Report.
Article I under the head "Fires" was taken up.
Hon. Mr. Hay moved that the words "ploughed or" be struck out, and that the
Article so amended be adopted. Burning round such stack would, he thought, be
sufficient, and ploughing was unneeded and spoiled the ground a good deal for
mowers.
Hon. Mr. Norquay — The provision for burning as well as ploughing should be
struck out. He had seen hay stacks burned down from the top and taking fire sometimes
at
a distance of two hundred yards from the main conflagration.
Hon. Mr. O'Donoghue — This subject of the propriety of burning round stacks
is very much debated. I have heard of instances where such fires have burned into
the
ground and continued smouldering for a long time afterwards. Again at times the wind
is
high for days and even weeks, and persons cannot, without danger to the whole country,
burn rings round their hay. But if, as Hon. Mr. Norquay says, burning or ploughing
is
not to be done, what protection does he propose?
Hon. Mr. O'Donoghue — That would be a very desirable, but in nine cases out
of ten, not a practicable way of getting rid of the difficulty. I believe that ploughing
is the safest plan. If hay is made one year in a good safe place and it is ploughed
round it is very likely the hay will be built there the succeeding year.
Hon. Mr. Norquay moved in amendment that all after the words "kindled a
fire" be struck out, and the following inserted: "excepting for the purposes of self
protection."
Hon. Mr. Tait, seconded by Hon. Mr. McKay, moved in amendment to the
amendment that original article be adopted.
The Chairman — Fires are often lit on the prairie by men who are not, perhaps, worth ten cents.
These fires spread and destroy thousands of pounds worth of property. How can these
men be made to pay damages?
Hon. Mr. Tait — It has been known, too, that the prairies have been set on
fire by lightning. What is to be done in that case? (laughter).
Hon. Mr. Tait's amendment was carried on a division — Yeas 16: nays 3.
Article II, which was as follows, was put.
"II. If between the first day of May and the first day of December, any person shall
kindle a fire intended to run, he shall be fined ten pounds sterling, one half to
go to the prosecutor; and if any person, without having obtained the presence and
assistance of at least four men, shall light a fire for the purpose of burning rings
round hay, as required by the preceding law, he shall be held to have incurred the
penalty attached to this law. Provided that the Bench may remit the whole fine if
the defendant has both kindled the fire through necessity, and done all in his power
to prevent it from spreading."
The Chairman — I cannot see the necessity for the balance of the article, after the word "prosecutor"
in the fifth line.
Hon. Mr. O'Donoghue thought the article very defective. It was vague, full
of repetition and distinctions which amounted to nothing when examined closely.
Hon. Mr. Tait — I think the article as it stands, very good, but think that
the words "between the first day of May and the first of December" should be struck
out
and the provision made applicable to the whole year.
At Hon. Mr. Tait's suggestion
Hon. Mr. Poitras altered his amendment by substituting the words "between the first day of May and
first of December."
Hon. Mr. O'Donoghue — I would like to ask what would you do with the person who lit a fire intended to
run, if he were penniless?
The Chairman — I suppose you would do with him as in the case of any other
person where a fine was levied.
Hon. Mr. O'Donoghue said that the law ought to be more specific on this point. Some provision must be
made against a man who was not worth a cent, lighting fires all over the prairie.
[He] moved in amendment that the Article be struck out, and that the following be
substituted:
"II. If between the first day of May and the first day of December, any person shall
kindle a fire, intended to run, he shall be fined ten pounds sterling, one half the
fine to go to the prosecutor. In default of payment, the offender may be imprisoned
for three months in the Common Jail; and if any person, without having obtained the
presence and assistance of at least six men, shall light a fire for the purpose of
burning rings round hay, as allowed by the preceding law, he shall be held to have
incurred the penalty attached to this law. Provided that the Bench may remit the whole
fine, provided that the defendant has both kindled the fire through necessity, and
done all in his power to prevent it from spreading."
The Chairman seconded this last amendment, which was carried.
Article III was as follows:—
"III. If any fire in the open air, which is not intended to run, be left burning without
due precaution against its spreading, and it actually do spread, every person who
may have kindled, or fed, or used the same, shall be fined not less than five pounds,
and not more than ten pounds sterling."
Hon. Mr. Norquay moved in amendment that the words "not less than five pounds, nor more than," be
struck out.
The Chairman objected to the words, "or used," in the article. A party using a fire in passing
might leave others there, through whose negligence the fire might ultimately spread.
It was unjust to enact that the man who so used it should be held responsible.
Hon. Mr. McKay said he found the article rather severe, as it involved every person who had anything
to do with the fire. If the parties kindling a fire leave it well secured, and a second
party come along, and use the fire carelessly and it spread, obviously the first party
ought not to be blameable. He moved that the article be adopted on striking out the
following words, "without due precaution against its spreading and it actually do
spread." Amendment carried on a division — yeas 14; nays 4.
"If any Ram be found at large between the thirtieth day of July and the first day
of December, such Ram may be captured by any person and placed in charge of a Constable
to keep, at a charge of three pence a day until the owner pay to the captor a fine
of five shillings and expenses of keep, and if the owner be unknown, the Constable
shall, immediately on getting the Ram, advertise the same three times in every local
Newspaper, and on three successive Sundays at the doors of two Protestant and Roman
Catholic Churches, giving in such advertisement a complete description of the animal."
— Carried.
Articles V and VI carried.
The President then addressed the House announcing the appointment to the
Executive. The President said — I have the honor to announce to the House that certain
additions have been made to the Executive. It is now composed of the Hon. Mr. Bunn,
Secretary; Hon. Mr. O'Donoghue, Treasurer; Hon. Mr. Bannatyne, Postmaster-General;
and
Hon. Mr. Lepine, Adjutant-General. These hon. gentlemen compose the Cabinet, but it
has
also been taken into consideration that two other departments require to be immediately
provided for,— a Commissioner of Indian Affairs and Superintendent of Public Roads
and
Public Works generally. I have the honor to submit the name of Hon. Mr. McKay as
Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and the name of Hon. Mr. Bruce as Superintendent of
Public Works. I would be very glad to have an expression of the House on these
appointments. The names I now submit do not comprise all the members of the Executive
which I would like to choose myself. But they are now submitted for your approval,
as in
the present state of things it is desirable that everything should have your sanction,
representing as you do the people of Assiniboia. Let me then ask this hon. House to
pronounce on the Executive appointments. It may be, that with the advent of another
Government to power, by-and-bye the Legislature may not have such an opportunity as
that
now offered. For myself, I am the more glad to take this action as it forms a protest
against the accusations brought against me that I have assumed dictatorial powers.
I am
not, and have not been a dictator, and I sincerely hope it will never be necessary
that
any one in power in this country will play such a part (cheers).
Hon. Mr. McKay said — I feel sensibly the high honor conferred on me in
making me the Commissioner of Indian Affairs. But I would respectfully suggest that
some
one else should be appointed to this office. It is not that I do not wish to act with
this House. Far from it. But I do not feel myself able to discharge the duties the
office would entail, owing to my health. I am not active enough to discharge the duties
of Indian Commissioner. In the meantime I am quite willing to discharge all the duties
I
can in this direction, such as interpreting, calling Indians together, and counselling
with them.
The President having expressed the hope that the hon. member would continue
in the office, and that as far as possible its duties would be lightened, went on
to say
— I would take the liberty of asking of the hon. gentlemen one thing. We have just
learned by mail that something is going on in the other provinces of Confederation,
which concerns us. Threats are being made; but I do not know how far these threats
are
going against us. For my own part I do not attach much importance to them; and I have
been the more inclined to this view, in consequence of a telegram which has just been
received by His Lordship Bishop Tache from Father Richot and the other Commissioners.
They announce that they are urging a settlement with Canada, and that there is no
danger
(loud cheers). But at the same time I have observed in the other reports which have
reached us that some importance is attached to one idea, namely, that the people here
are divided, and that the conditions on which we were prepared to receive Canada had
been changed before they left here, with the Commissioners. It is true there has been
a
change, but it is, I think, one for the better, as the terms proposed in the long
run
could more easily be assented to, than those agreed on in the Convention. Some changes
were found to be necessary by the Executive, and they had to be quickly decided on,
as
the Commissioners were expected in Canada, and the people here were anxious to see
them
starting to Ottawa. Hence the manner of making the alterations. But I would like to
place them before the House, so that hon. members might judge for themselves. Hon.
Mr.
Bunn, the Secretary, was with us while the alterations were being made, and so limited
was our time for the work that we had to work day and night in order to finish and
enable the Commissioners to start at the time they did. The Commissioners, of course,
had certain power in regard to these demands, but before anything was finally settled,
they were instructed that the approval of the Legislative Assembly of this country
was
necessary,— so that, while complying with circumstances we had at the same time a
saving
clause that the ratification of the action of our Commissioners depended altogether
on
the will of the Legislature of this country (cheers). To-morrow, if it is the wish
of
the House, I will place on the table the List of Rights as given the Commissioners,
printed in English and French (hear, and cheers). I have to thank you hon. gentlemen
for
the attention you have given me with regard to the executive appointments. We must,
of
course, bear in mind, that they are merely provisional in their nature. It is said
that
we are going to fight with England, but we have not that pretension (hear, hear),—
and
some may find out that the present arrangement, such as it is, is more provisional
than
they think (cheers).
The House adjourned at half-past seven P.M.
This individual participated in:
