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TUESDAY, February 21, 1865.
HON. SOLICITOR GENERAL LANGEVIN
—It is not without some degree of hesitation
that I rise to address the
House on this
occasion ; for I see before me
the representatives of two millions and a
half of people,
who are called together to settle the most
weighty matters which concern them, and
more particularly to take into
consideration
a question involving the
destiny, not only of
the two Canadas, but also of
all the Provinces of British North America. I must confess that I experience a strong
feeling of
hesitation and great diffidence
of my own
powers, when I consider the
importance of
the measure submitted to us for
discussion,
and the consequences which may
result from
363
our decision, both to ourselves and our
posterity. The measure is so vast in its bearings, the interests affected by it are
so considerable, that no one can be surprised at my
diffidence and hesitation. This question of
Confederation is bound up with the common
interests of empires and the general policy
of nations, for it is no unimportant matter
for the great nations who bear sway among
mankind, to know into what hands the Provinces of British North America
may fall.
We need only look back into the pages of
history to learn how greatly nations are
moved by the creation of a new people ;
and on the present occasion, the thousand
voices of the press proclaim the
interest
which the question of
Confederation excites
both in America and in Europe
itself, and
how closely the governments observe our
proceedings ; and this interest which
they
feel and proclaim is legitimate and natural,
for the measure is destined to make us rank
among the nations of the earth.
More than
all, this question particularly concerns England and the United States, and in an
equal
degree with ourselves. England is
interested in seeing these provinces well governed,
prosperous, free, contented and happy. She
is interested in their having a good government, and that it should be so administered
as to be no burthen to her as the
Mother
Country ; that, on the contrary, they
should become powerful and in a position to
assist her in certain eventualities. On the
other hand, the United States must feel a
degree of satisfaction in seeing the Provinces
of British North America become a powerful
nation. They will see it without a feeling
allied to jealousy. They must wish us to be
strong enough to maintain our
neutrality,
our good understanding with
them, and those
friendly relations which should ever subsist
between neighboring nations.
But if this
question is interesting to England and the
United States, it is still more
so to ourselves—
to us, whose destiny is at
stake, to us whose
position is a lofty one as
compared with the
ordinary lot of nations ; for the faculty is
not granted to all nations to choose their own
lot in the full leisure of a time of peace, without the taint of a single drop
of blood shed—
to fix upon a Constitution which will set them
at once on the high road of progress, and
enable them to take such ground for their
career as may seem good in their
own eyes.
In 18l0, when the union of the two Canadas
was under consideration,
we occupied no such
position, for that union was imposed upon us
in our own despite, and we were never
consulted on the subject. It will be remembered that for a certain time our
very language was proscribed, and our position rendered as unfortunate as it could
be made. True, we had an equal number of representatives in this House, but
as a people we were manifestly held to
be inferior. I grant that the attempt to fix
the yoke permanently on our necks proved
a failure, but this was no fault of those who
imposed the union on us. We have won
the position which we now occupy by our
own energy and perseverance, assisted by
some of the representatives of Upper Canada. At this day things are
greatly changed.
We are in the midst of a great revolution,
but a revolution of which peace is the guiding spirit ; we are free to deliberate
whether
we will change our position, and
to dictate
the terms on which the change is
to be
made. We are invited to shape out our
future destiny, and we should not be true to ourselves, or to our constituents, if
we refused
this day to avail ourselves of
the resolutions
adopted at the Conference of Quebec. The
hon. member for Hochelaga (Hon
Mr. DORION), whom I regret not to see in his place—
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN—The hon.
member for Hochelaga told us the other
day that the plan of a
Confederation was
adopted and moved by the present Administration for the mere purpose of stifling
the
cry of representation by
population. Well,
and if it really were so, where does the hon.
member find the harm in it ? Is it not most
important that we should stop that cry for
representation based on
population, in our
present condition ? Representation by population would have left us, Lower Canadians,
in an inferior position relatively to that of
Upper Canada—would have conferred on the
latter the privilege of legislating
for us, not
only in general, but in local matters. The
hon. member for Hochelaga ought to have
been the last to reproach the present Government with having, by this measure of Confederation,
stopped the cry for
representation
based on population. In 1854, the hon.
member admitted, as he himself acknowledges, that representation based on population
was just in principle, and the consequence
of that admission was fatal. The consequence
was that the hon. member was
compelled to
keep in the same track until
the formation of the BROWN-DORION
Administration in
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1858—an Administration which had no very
long existence. (Hear, hear.)
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN—That
Administration had no very long existence,
and I rejoice that I did my part in upsetting
it, for it is probable that, if it had stood,
representation based on
population would
have been forced upon us, and we should
not be now in our present position—in a
position to make our own terms as freely as
Upper Canada, and take part, on a footing of
equality, in negotiating a treaty with the
Lower Provinces. This is why I rejoice
that I contributed to overthrow that government. The hon. member for Hochelaga
told us the other evening that in 1856 he
spoke as follows :—
In 1856, when Parliament was sitting at
Toronto, I first suggested that one means of surmounting our difficulties would be
the substitution
of a Confederation of the two
Canadas in place of a
Legislative union. By that arrangement local
questions would be debated in the local legislatures, and the Central Government would
have
the control of commercial and other questions
of general interest. I said that considering the
differences of race, religion and laws now existing between the two sections of the
country, it
would be the best means of surmounting them.
That is to say, I would leave to
a central government questions regarding commerce, banking,
the currency, public works of a
general character,
&c., and to the local legislatures all local questions. At the same time I said that
if these views
were not accepted, I should certainly be in favor
of representation based on population, with conditions and guarantees which would
secure the
interests of Lower Canada, and preserve
to
Lower Canada the institutions which
are so dear
to her.
Well, we see that in 1856, the hon.
member
for Hochelaga was desirous of forming a
new Constitution for the express purpose of
stifling the cry for representation based on
population. In 1858 he formed, together
with the present Hon. President of the Council (Hon. Mr. BROWN), the BROWN—DORION
Government ; and again, he stipulated that
the question of representation
based on
population should be taken into
consideration, and that the Government should consider the means of settling the difficulties
which it involved. In 1859 he signed a
document, which also bore the signatures of
Hon. Mr. DRUMMOND, Hon. Mr. DESSAULLES, and Hon. Mr. MCGEE, in
which he
said with his colleagues, that a
change in
the Constitution of the country was
necessary :—
If Lower Canada insists on maintaining
the
union intact ; if she will neither consent to a
dissolution of the union, nor consider the project
of a Federation, it is difficult to conceive on what
reasonable grounds the demand for representation
according to population can be resisted. The
plea for such resistance has hitherto been that
danger might arise to some of her peculiar and
most cherished institutions ; but that ground will
be no longer tenable if she rejects a proposition,
the effect of which would be to leave to her
own
people the sole and absolute custody of
those
institutions, and to surround them by the most
stringent of all possible safeguards, the provisions
of the fundamental law of the land, unalterable
save by the action of the people affected by them.
The logical alternative now presented to the
people of Lower Canada would, therefore, seem
to be dissolution or federation on the one hand,
and representation according to
population on the
other.
Here, again, he intended to stifle the cry
of representation based on population, and
intended to do it by founding a new Confederation. In 1861 it was just the same ;
he
declared that he was desirous of settling
that question of the representation ; that it
was not expedient that it should remain an
open question ; that it was a difficulty to be
got rid of one way or another. In 1862,
also, he went into the Government with the
same object in view. But how did he set
about carrying it out? He made it a close
question, and adopted, with his colleagues,
the plan of the double majority. The hon.
member doubtless had forgotten that in 1859,
when he penned the manifesto which I have
just quoted, he had condemned the double
majority. Here is, in fact, what he said in
that document :—
In each section there would still be
minority
and majority parties, and unless the principle of
the double majority could be enacted as a fundamental law, we should be exposed to
an endless
round of the same complaints that we now hear,
of one section ruling the other contrary to its well
known public opinion, and to see reproduced in
our politics the same passions, the same intrigues,
the same corruption and insincerity. The enactment of the double majority is not advocated
in
any quarter. The impossibility
of clearly defining
the cases to which it should apply, and of distinguishing them from those to which
it should not,
is felt by all ; but were it
even possible, it would
only lead to new phases of difliculty, by compelling
majorities professing opinions and principles
diametrically opposed to each other, to unite,
and, thereby effectually to
extinguish the influence
365
of one or the other minority, or of both.
It is
difficult to conceive one single legislature composed of two majorities and two minorities
; these
two majorities without any identity of principle,
acting nevertheless together by common consent,
so as to never trespass the one on the other, and
so that each section of the province would always
be governed by a majority of its representatives.
On many questions this course could not be carried out without alternately forcing
the majority
of the representatives of each section of the province to abstain from voting, or
to declare themselves in favor of measures which
their judgment
and their conscience would disavow. The com
plications of such a system amounting to nothing
short of an application of the Federal principle to
a single legislature, would render it impracticable.
Then the honorable member had changed
his opinion on this subject ! I do not say
this as a reproach ; but it proves that he
always acted with the same object in view—
that is to say, to stifle the cry for representation
based on population. How, then, does it
happen that he finds fault with the present
Ministry for bringing forward a measure to
put an end to these difliculties, and to prevent our being placed in a position of
inferiority ? But the object of the Confederation
is not merely to do away with existing difficulties. It has become a necessity, because
we have become suficiently great,—because
we have become strong, rich, and powerful
enough,—because our products are
numerous
enough and considerable enough,—because
our population has become large enough to
allow of our aspiring to another position, and
of our seeking to obtain an outlet through
some seaport for our products. At the present day we stand in a position of vassalage
to the United States, with respect to the
exportation of our products to Europe ; we
are at their mercy. If we should have any
difficulty with our neighbors to-morrow, they
would close the Portland route to us, and we
should find ourselves, during nearly seven
months in the year, cut off from all communication with the seaboard, save by means
of the usual long and difficult land journey.
This is not a tenable position, nor one worthy
of a people such as that which inhabits the
Provinces of British North America. It is
a position which must be emerged from, for
such is the interest of Canada, of the Lower
Provinces, and of the Western States. The
honorable member for Hochelaga told us that
he was in favor of a plan which would
settle
existing difficulties, and would place Lower
Canada in a suitable position ; but he never
told us what that plan was. The only thing
he ever proposed was his plan of
1859 for
the Confederation of the two Canadas ; but
that plan would only have settled one difficulty, and would have allowed others of
the
greatest importance to arise—and among
others, that respecting our communication
with the seaboard. That plan, for instance,
would not have allowed us to construct the
Intercolonial Railway ; for it is almost impossible that so great an enterprise
should
succeed unless it is in the hands of a great
central power, and if it is
necessary to consult
five or six governments before commencing
it. But the question of the Confederation of
the two Canadas is not the only one which
is presented as a means of escaping from our
difficulties ; there are different
plans which I
shall enumerate. Some propose, for instance,
that we should remain in the position in
which we now are ; others wish for annexation to the United States ; some would, perhaps,
be in favor of complete independence ;
others would favor a Confederation of the two
Canadas ; and, lastly, the Confederation of all
the British North American Provinces is
proposed. Well, let us cursorily examine
these various propositions. It may be that
there are some members who are desirous
that we should remain as we are. The
honorable members for Hochelaga and
Lotbinière (Hon. Mr. DORION and Mr. JOLY)
consider our position an excellent one,
and so, in their speeches, they have
told us. They consider that we are extremely prosperous, and that we have
nothing to wish for. For my part, I consider
that in our present position we are under a
great disadvantage ; it is that if we remain
isolated and alone, we cannot communicate
with the metropolis, except through the
United States ; if we remain alone we can
aspire to no position, we can give rein to no
ambition as a people. Again, we have at
the present time as many systems of judicature as we have provinces ; with Confederation,
on the contrary, this defect will be
removed, and there will be but two systems:
one for Lower Canada, because our laws are
different from those of the other provinces, because we are a separate
people, and because
we do not choose to have the laws of the
other populations—and the other for the
remainder of the Confederation. All the
other provinces having the same laws, or
their system of law being derived from one
and the same source, may have one and the
same system of judicature ; and, in fact, a
resolution of the Conference allows them to
resolve that they will have one code and one
366
judicial system : but an exception is
made in
favor of Lower Canada and our laws. There
are also as many different tariffs as
there are
different provinces, as many commercial and
customs regulations as provinces. It is true
that there are now many free goods, but it
is also correct to say that there as many customs systems as there are provinces.
And
with respect to great colonial works, is it not
true that it is impossible at the present day
to undertake them, because the interests involved are too considerable, and because
it is
necessary to consult three or four legislatures ? By this it will be understood that
it is
almost impossible to reconcile so many different interests, except by uniting in one
and the
same legislature the representatives of those
interests and of the people affected
by them,
and this object we cannot attain by remaining
by ourselves. Currency and the
interest of
money are also regulated by different systems
in the several provinces. There is one currency here, another in Newfoundland, another
in Prince Edward Island, and so on.
The shilling and pound of this province are
different from the shilling and pound of
Newfoundland and those of the other Maritime Provinces. But, with Confederation,
all these matters would be placed under the
control of one central legislature ; the currency would become uniform throughout,
and capital might be everywhere
invested
without obstacle. So also it will be with
respect to the rights of authors, patents for
mechanical inventions, &c. When speaking
of the Intercolonial Railway, I made no mention of the Pacific Railway, because I
consider that we ought to devote our attention to
accomplishing the works of which we at
present stand in need. At a later period,
when our resources and our population shall
have sufliciently increased, we may direct our
attention to the Pacific Railway. And should
it become necessary, we can, with Confederation, hope to build it in less than ten
years, whereas by remaining by ourselves as
we are, we could not hope to have it for per
haps one hundred years. I think that I have
now held up in a salient point of view the
disadvantages of the status quo.
The necessary consequence of what I have just demonstrated is that we cannot remain
in the position in which we now are, whether we will
or not. The question of representation
based on population must be met ; that
question must be settled. To say that we
will grant it is to wish to place us in a position of inferiority, and I, for my part,
will
never consent to place my section of the
province in that position. Then there is
another alternative that is proposed—annexation to the United States. I do not believe
there is a single member in the House or out
of the House who would consent to the
annexation of Canada to the United States.
But it is a question which must be examined
when discussing that of Confederation, because it is one of' the alternatives offered
to
us, and out of which we have to make a
selection. What then would be our position
in case we were annexed to the United
States? It is true that we should become
an independent State in the American Confederation, but with the advantages accruing
from such a state of affairs, we
should likewise have the disadvantages. We should
have to contribute towards the liquidation
of the enormous debt which the United
States have contracted in consequence of the
war which is desolating one of the finest
portions of the land ; we should have to pay
the interest, and subsequently the principal
itself, for I do not suppose that the Americans have the slightest intention of repudiating
their debt. The debt would have to be
paid, and to effect that, heavy
imposts would
have to be paid for a great number of years
to provide the interest and sinking fund.
Those who talk of the debt which is going
to result from the Confederation should
remember that it will be but a mere trifle
compared with that for which we should
become responsible under
annexation. For
one dollar that we shall have to pay under
Confederation, we should have to pay six.
under annexation. It is said that the debt
will be enormous, but it will only be as one
dollar to four dollars in England, and six
dollars in the United States. That is the
financial aspeet of annexation. But what
would be the fate of the French-Canadians
in the case of annexation to the United
States ? Let us profit by the example of the
French race in the United States, and enquire
what has been the fate of the
French in
Louisiana ? What has become of them ?
What has become of their language, their
customs, their manners and their institutions ?
After the war, hardly a trace will remain to
show that the French race has
passed that
way. So far as religion is concerned, we
might not find ourselves so badly off ;
but
we live in peace at the present day and are
perfectly comfortable ; Catholics and Protestants have the same rights and religious
liberty, and they live as peacefully together
367
as if there was but one religion in the
land.
MR. DUFRESNE
(Iberville)—We are
well off, just us remain so.
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN—Yes, but
we cannot remain in the position in which
we are. The hon. member for Hochelaga has
said so for ten years past, and undertook to
change it. He said the position was
no
longer tenable in 1854, and if it was not
tenable then, it is still less so in 1865. I
now come to the other alternative proposed
to us—that of independence Men may be
found, both in the House and out
of the
House, who would be disposed to say that
we had better have independence than Confederation. For my part, I believe that the
independence of the British North American
Provinces would be the greatest misfortune
which could happen to them ; it would be to
leave us at the mercy of our neighbors, and
to throw us into their arms.
Independence
would make us masters of our position, but
at the same time we should be deprived of
the protection of England and without that
it is by no means difficult to
foresee what
would become of us. The hon. member for
Hochelaga may think it to our advantage to
be weak, but in that opinion I do not coinside ; I consider that it is better to be
in a
position to meet the enemy in case of his
attacking us. Let it be well understood
that without the protection of England we
can do nothing. And besides the outlay
which would be entailed by our providing
for our defence, there would also be enormous expenditure in order to keep up in a
suitable manner our relations with foreign
powers. With independence, and without
the support and assistance of' England, we
should have to maintain an army and a very
expensive government, we should have to
keep up diplomatic relations with other
countries, and provide means to
defray a host
of other expenses which we should not have
to do under Confederation.
Independence
is, therefore, out of the question for the present. Lastly, we have the fourth alternative—the
Confederation of the two Canadas, proposed by the honorable member
for Hochelaga. In his manifesto of 1864
he
told us in what position we should then be.
The following passage is from the manifesto
is question :—
It would have been easy at any time to
satisfy
Upper Canada by giving her four or five members
more than Lower Canada,
preserving at the same
time equality in the Legislative Council.
To
avoid the danger which this
increase of members
might entail, it is proposed to give Upper
Canada
seventeen members more than Lower Canada,
and there are added besides forty-seven members
more for the Maritime Provinces ; in all sixty-four
members are added to the British element besides
the twenty-eight additional members which are
given to the Legislative Council ;
and this is the
way in which it is pretended that the rights of
Lower Canada are to be protected.
The hon. member for Hochelaga according
to
his own plan would have preferred—
HON.
SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN—Then it
is a very bad argument—an argument by no
means advantageous to Lower Canada. The
hon. member says in that manifesto that it
would be quite an easy matter to secure the
silence of Upper Canada, by granting it four
or five more members than Lower Canada.
But the hon. member very well knows that
if we were to grant representation
based on
population, it would not be four or five
members we should have to give to Upper
Canada, but the seventeen members which
it is now proposed to give Upper Canada by
the plan of Confederation. The increase
would not be based on an imaginary number.
But even with four or five members more in
the present union, Upper Canada could
impose its decision on all questions
which
might come before the House. The hon.
member for Hochelaga has told us
that under
the proposed system. Upper Canada will have
seventeen members more than
Lower Canada,
and that the English element will be increased by the addition of all
the members
from the Lower Provinces, and that they
will enter into a league against us Lower
Canadians. I must say, I do not think the
hon. member pays a very high
compliment
to his ex-colleague the Hon. Mr. HOLTON,
when he says that because the members will
be English, they will be against us French-
Canadians. So great was his confidence in
the hon. member for Chateauguay, that he
took him into his Government, and would
take him again to-day if he had
the opportunity ; and yet the hon. member for Hochelaga speaks of the English as though
they
were our natural enemies. For my part, I
do not think they are ; moreover, the
question before us is not the formation of a
Local Government only. We are considering
the establishment of a Confederacy—with
a Central Parliament and local parliaments. The Central or Federal Parliament
will have the control of all measures
368
of a general character, as provided by
the Quebec Conference ; but all matters
of local interest, all that relates to the
affairs and rights of the different sections of
the Confederacy, will be reserved for the
control of the local parliaments.
The position in which Confederation will place us is
very different from that which we should
have occupied under the system proposed by
the honorable member, inasmuch as the
seventeen members, which Upper Canada
will have more than Lower Canada, will
have nothing to do with our local affairs,
our religious questions or particular institutions, and the hon. member for Hochelaga,
by his scheme, would have entrusted all
that to the good-will of the Upper Canadian
majority ; but for my part, I would rather
entrust the management of these matters to
my own people than to them. As regards
the seventeen additional members which
Upper Canada will have in the Federal Parliament, I am not alarmed at their presence
any more than at that of the members from
the Lower Provinces, because in Parliament
there will be no questions of race, nationality, religion or locality, as this Legislature
will only be charged with the settlement of
the great general questions which will
interest alike the whole Confederacy and
not one locality only. Our position
then is excellent, and all those who
frankly give expression to their opinions
must admit that the representatives of Lower
Canada at the Quebec Conference have carefully guarded her interests. I may say that
the basis of action adopted by the delegates,
in preparing the resolutions, was to do justice to all—justice to all races, to all
religions, to all nationalities, and to all interests.
For this reason the Confederation will be
accepted by all, in the Lower Provinces as
well as here. Under Confederation there
will no longer be domination of one race over
another, and if one section should be desirous
of committing an act of injustice against
another section, all the others would unite
together to prevent it. But, supposing that
an unjust measure was passed in the House
of Commons of the Federal Legislature, it
would be stopped in the Legislative Council ;
for there we shall be represented equally
with the other sections, and that is a guarantee that our interests will be amply
protected. In the Legislative Council we shall
have 24 members like Upper Canada and
the Lower Provinces. I assert, then, that
there is a vast difference between the
arguments of the hon. member for Hochelaga
and the measure of the Government ; our
interests will be protected by the Legislative Council, and the measures of general
interest will come under the jurisdiction of
the Federal Parliament. When the matter
under consideration is a great public enterprise, such as a railway, a canal or a
telegraph line, our religious and national interests will not be endangered. It will
be the
duty of the Central Government to see that
the country prospers, but it will not be its
duty to attack our religion, our institutions or
our nationality, which, moreover, as I have
just proved, will be amply protected. While
on this point, I will draw the attention of the
honorable member for Hochelaga to the fact,
that in 1859 he expressed himself
as folows :—
Whatever may be the number of provinces
or
of subdivisions which it may hereafter be deemed
necessary to adopt, the separating line between
Upper and Lower Canada must be maintained.
In defining the powers of the local and federal
governments, those only must be
delegated to
the latter which would be absolutely necessary
for the purposes of Confederation, and, as a necessary consequence, reserve to the
subdivisions
powers as ample and as varied as possible. The
customs, the mail service, the laws respecting the
currency, patents and copy-rights, the public
lands, and such of the public works as possess
an interest common to all parts of the country,
ought to be the principal, if not the only objects
which would be placed under the control of the
Federal Government, whilst all that would relate
to improvements purely local—to education, the
administration of justice, the militia, the laws of
preperty, and of internal police—would be under
the control of the local governments, whose
powers, in a word, would extend to all matters not
specially delegated to the General Government.
Thus we see that the honorable member
was willing to give up the control of the
public lands to the Federal Government.
He considered that it would be better to
leave the control of colonization
and the
public lands to the Federal Government, in
which, nevertheless, he was prepared to give
a preponderance to Upper Canada. By the
plan of Confederation brought down by the
present Government, the control of these
matters is given up to the local legislatures,
and I earnestly hope that the honorable
member will not endeavor to take them away
and transfer them to the control of the Federal Government. If his plan or his argument
had ever been put into Operation, he
369
would have abandoned the control of our
public lands to the British element, of which
he now pretends to stand in mortal fear. I
repeat the declaration that it is impossible
for us to continue in our present position ; that
annexation to the United States would be
the greatest disaster that could befal us ; and
that it is impossible, that it would be disastrous to think of the independence of
the
country ; that the project for the Confederation of the two Canadas as
proposed by the
honorable member for Hochelaga is not desirable, and would not offer any
guarantee
for the institutions of Lower Canada, but
that the Confederation of all the Provinces of
British North America would be preferable,
and is our only remedy. The Confederation
would have the effect of giving us more
strength than we now possess ; we should
form but one nation, one country, for all
general matters affecting our
interests as a
people. But when I speak of a great and
powerful nation, far be it from me to wish
that we should form an independent nation,
and that we should abandon the protection
of the British flag ; on the contrary, I earnestly hope that we shall long remain
under
the protection of that flag. What I would
say is, that with Confederation we shall be
in a better position for self-defence, and to
aid the Mother Country under certain exigencies, than we are at the present time.
Having Confederation, the
Central Government will be in a position to have its orders
carried out over its whole territory ; and when
the question of defence comes up, it will not
be obliged to consult four or five different
legislatures, but it will be able
to organize
our defences immediately and without obstruction. Besides, we shall have acquired
a standing which we have not hitherto
attained in our relations with other countries
with which we have dealings. It is of no
small importance for the inhabitants of
a country to have a standing in foreign
countries, and not to be treated as men
of inferior position. When Canadians go
to London or elsewhere out of their own
country, they have no recognized
position, because we are only a simple colony.
But under the Confederation we shall be
protected by England, and besides we shall
have a position in foreign lands, the position
which every man enjoys who belongs to a
great nation. On this very point a public
writer wrote some few years ago in a London
newspaper an article from which I will
ask permission to read an extract to the
House. The matter under consideration was
the cession of the right of fishery on the
Banks of Newfoundland by England to
France. He says :—
Now, see the effect of this want of association
and representation here. The basis of a treaty is
agreed upon between Great Britain and France,
by which Great Britain agreed to
give to
France the exclusive right of fishing upon a great
portion of the coast of Newfoundland,
a thing
unjustified by any former treaty. Newfoundland
no sooner heard of it than she remonstrated, and
denied the right of Great Britain to sign away to
a foreign nation the property of the people of
Newfoundland ; and, in fact, set at defiance the
action of the Imperial Government. Now, this is
not only derogatory to us as a nation, but it illustrates the danger which may arise
to the colonies
from the Imperial Government not being properly
informed on such subjects. For, from a careful
perusal of all the treaties on the subject in
question, we cannot but believe that Newfoundland was right.
It is evident that, if the Confederation had
existed at that period, England would not
have acted without consulting us ; but in those
days they used to say, " They are Canadians,
mere colonists, &c.;" and as we
were then
separated, of course we had to submit ; our
rights were not protected as they will be
when we are united. Under Confederation,
England will consult us in all matters which
affect our interests, and we shall be able to
make ourselves effectually heard in London.
In proof of this I cite from the same
writer :—
Here is another question which especially affects
Canada. In the course of last year, the subsidy
of ÂŁ176,340 per annum, paid to the Cunard
vessels plying between Liverpool and the United
States. was renewed for a period of six years by
the Imperial Government. Another postal subsidy
of ÂŁ78,000 was just being granted by the Imperial
Government to a new line of steamers between
Galway and the United States, in this case also
without consulting the interests of British North
America. This is a great injustice, particularly
to Canada, for that province has expended large
sums in the opening of water communication in
the valley of the River St. Lawrence, canals which
have become valueless from having to compete
with the United States routes, encouraged by a
subsidy from the Imperial Government of nearly
ÂŁ300, 00 per annum , while Canada on the other
hand receives no aid whatever from the Imperial
Government, but is compelled to subsidize a line
of its own (to attract a feeble share of the trade)
to the extent of ÂŁ50,000 per annum."
If all the Provinces of British North
America had then been united
under one
370
single government, we should have been
informed that the Imperial Government
intended to make that treaty, and our rights
would have been respected ; but as we were
but a simple colony, and as there were many
interests brought to bear, we could do nothing
to protect ourselves. I do not desire to
weary the House with quotations, but I trust
I shall be allowed to cite another author, who
in addition to showing how limited are the
objects of ambition presented to the inhabitants of a colony, demonstrates that, though
British subjects, we are almost on the footing
of foreigners in England :—
Here again the contiguity of the colonies
to
the United States suggests
disagreeable compari
sons. In that great republic, the scope for individual exertion is immense ; and although
the
rewards of success in the higher walks of life are
not generally so great as under most monarchical
governments, some of the " prizes open to all,"
in that country, are of a very high order. Many a
British North American has seen individuals upon
the United States side of our boundary, whom he
knew from personal acquaintance to be inferior
to him in natural abilities, education, wealth, and
social standing, raised in a
short time to the pre
sidency of that republic, a position which would
entitle him to rank with the proudest monarchs of
Europe. At the same time that British American
could not reasonably aspire even to become the
governor of his native province ; and if he were
to go to England, all the influence which he could
command would probably not procure him a presentation to his Sovereign.
Does not that show that the position of a
Canadian, or of any other inhabitant of the
colonies, in England is a position of inferiority ? We desire to remove that inferiority
by adopting the plan of Confederation
now submitted to the House. The honorable
member for Hochelaga stated that Confederation had not been asked for by the people,
but that it was adopted as the last resource
of a falling party. He referred, of course,
when he expressed that opinion, to the vote
of censure he had proposed last year against
the TACHE—MACDONALD Ministry. After
all his efforts against that ministry, the
honorable gentleman could do no more than
reproach them with an act committed, or
supposed to have been committed, five years
before by another government ; and by that
means he had succeeded in overthrowing the
ministry. The result of the vote, brought
about by the honorable member, was very
different from what he expected ; it resulted
in the Coalition, and the project of Confederation now before the House. The honorable
gentleman says that the people have not
asked for it, but when the Government
announced to the House that the basis upon
which the new ministry had been formed
was the Confederation of the provinces, the
opposition did not declare that the measure
was a bad one. On the contrary, the great
majority of the members from Upper and
from Lower Canada pronounced themselves
in favor of the plan, and promised their
support to the Government. The honorable
gentleman also asks, who empowered the
delegates to meet and prepare a plan of
Contederation, and submit it to this House ?
I answer, that the power was derived from
the expressed sentiments of the House when
it consented to the formation of the Government on that basis. The Government felt
that they had a perfect right not only to
assist at the Quebec Conference, but to bring
it about. And even though there had been
no other reason but the difficulties which had
arisen in Canada some years before ; even
though there had been no other reason than
the care of the interests of the country, we
should have been justified thereby in assisting at the Charlottetown Conference, and
in
calling the Quebec Conference, at which the
measure was adopted by the thirty-three
delegates. The honorable gentleman let fall
the accusation that we consented that
Canada should have but one vote in the
Conference. In making a charge against
the Government, as leader of the Opposition,
the honorable gentleman ought to have
sought to base it on more correct information.
HON. MR. DORION—I understood it to
be so, from what the President of the
Council stated.
HON. SOL. GEN.
LANGEVIN—Canada
had more than one vote ; and the President
of the Council never stated the contrary.
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVlN—Yes,
two ; one for Upper and one for Lower
Canada. We could have had more, but that
was not the question. We did not go to the
Conference to discuss simple matters of
form, nor did we go there to force our views
upon others ; we desired to come to an understanding with the Lower Provinces. It
was
not our object to frame a feeble and unjust
Constitution, destined, from the very fact, to
last but a day. Hence it would not have
been right, and we did not desire to take
advantage of our position, but we treated
371
with the provinces on a footing of
equality,
not wishing to force our views upon them,
but anxious to come to an understanding,
and to extend justice to all.
HON. MR. DORION—The statement I
made is not denied, that the votes were given
by provinces.
HON. SOLICITOR GEN. LANGEVIN—It
is true ; the Lower Provinces had each one
vote, as had Upper and Lower Canada, and
it is for us a matter for congratulation. I
may be permitted to remind the House, in
connection with this matter, of the saying of
the first NAPOLEON to one of his ambassadors, whom he sent to a prince who was
feeble, poor, and without an army—that
prince was the Pope : "Treat with him as if
he had an army of two hundred thousand
men at his back ! " Now, that is what we
did ; we treated Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and the other provinces as we desired
to be treated ourselves, that is to say, with
justice and consideration, and the result
shews that we were right. The honorable
gentleman ought to have confined himself to
publishing, in his own way, the secrets of
the Conference, and refrain from
divulging
those of the committee appointed last year
with respect to constitutional difficulties. I
understood that everything was
to have
remained secret in that committee, except
the report made to the House.
HON. MR. DORION—Does the hon.
gentleman accuse me of divulging the secrets
of that committee ?
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN—The
hon. gentleman stated that the Hon. Attorney
General (Hon. J. A. MACDONALD) had
constantly acted and voted in that committee
against the Confederation project, and that
now he presents one himself ; and I maintain
that he ought not to have said that, for the
action of the members of the committee
was to have remained secret. If the deliberations of the committee were to
have
remained secret, the hon. gentleman must
see that he is in a difficult position. The
object of that secrecy is evident ; it was the
same object we had in view in preserving
secrecy in the proceedings of the Quebec
Conference ; to give increased freedom of
opinion to each member, and not, as has been
said, to deprive the people of information to
which they were entitled. We knew that if
our proceedings were presented day by day
to the people, through the press, we should
not have enjoyed that liberty of action and
of discussion which we required. It is
easy
to understand, that during the deliberations,
a member might one day pronounce against
a resolution or some important point, and
that the arguments of another member in a
contrary sense might make him change his
opinion ; but that this might be, it was necessary to be free from all outside influence,
and
therefore it was that the Conference sat with
closed doors.
HON. MR. DORION—Will the hon.
member allow me to say a few words? He
has stated that I divulged the secrets of the
committee on sectional difficulties. I assert
that I never attended the sittings of that
committee, that I merely went there on the
first day to state that I would not take part
in its proceedings, and that I then withdrew
and did not again attend. I was opposed to
the proceedings of that committee, and I did
not attend it ; but I learned that the Hon.
Attorney General voted, on the last day the
committee sat, against Confederation ; and
that was all I stated. So that if the secrets
of the committee have been revealed, it has
not been done by me.
HON. MR. CAUCHON.-—The hon. member for Hochelaga has quite forgotten what
passed in the committee. He was
present,
with the hon. member for Chateauguay ( Hon.
Mr. HOLTON), at the commencement
of the
proceedings of the committee, when it was
stated and agreed that everything that passed
in the committee was to be kept secret. I
admit that the hon. gentleman refused to
take part in the proceedings of the committee, but at the same time he knew perfectly
well that they were to be secret, and he was
bound to respect that secrecy. He was aware
that the representatives of the press had
been excluded.
HON. MR. DORION.—The hon. gentleman is entirely mistaken, for I was not
present.
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN.—The
hon. member for Hochelega must understand
that not being myself a member of that committee, and knowing that he was a member
of
it, and that it had been stated in the House
that the proceedings were to be secret, I was
perfectly justified in blaming him for having
spoken.
HON. MR. DORION.——I never knew that
the proceedings of the committee were to
be secret.
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN.—I knew
it, and I feel that I was perfectly justi
372
fled
in saying what I said ; but after the
explanations which the hon. gentleman has
just given, I cannot accuse him of
having
done it otherwise than inadvertently. The
honorable member for Hochelaga stated that
the memorial submitted by the Government
at the time of its formation spoke of a Confederation other than the one which it
now
proposes. It will be well to refer to the document in question in order to ascertain
its
contents. The memorial consists of two
parts, of which the following is the first :—
The Government are prepared to state that
immediately after the prorogation, they will
address themselves, in the most earnest manner,
to the negotiation for a
Confederation of all the
British North American Provinces.
That failing a successful issue to such negotiations, they are prepared to pledge
themselves to
legislation, during the next session of Parliament,
for the purpose of remedying existing difficulties
by introducing the Federal principle for Canada
alone, coupled with such
provisions as will permit
the Maritime Provinces and the North-Western
territory to be hereafter
incorporated into the
Canadian system.
In other words, the Government promises,
in the first part of the memorial in question,
to direct its attention to a Confederation of
all the British North American Provinces ;
and, in the event of its not succeeding in
carrying out that object, to turn its attention
to a Confederation of the two Canadas. And
now here are the contents of the second
part :—
The Government are prepared to pledge
themselves to bring in a measure, next session, for the
purpose of removing existing difficulties, by introducing the Federal principle into
Canada, coupled
with such provision as will permit the Maritime
Provinces and the North-West
territory to be incorporated into the same system of government.
And the Government will seek, by sending
representatives to the Lower Provinces and to
England, to secure the assent of
those interests
which are beyond the control of our own legislation, to such a measure as may
enable all
British North America to be united under a
General Legislature based upon the Federal
principle.
Well,
where is the contradiction between
these promises and the present action of the
Government ? We begin with a plan of
Confederation for the two Canadas, and subsequently, finding that the
Maritime Provinces are ready to enter upon
the consideration of a more extensive union, we have
made arrangements to bring them
at once
into the Confederation. There is no contra
diction
in that, but it is the same measure
and the same plan ; the only difference
is,
that, instead of admitting them into the
union some six or nine months hence, we
have admitted them at once. When
we approached the question, we found
the Maritime Provinces in process of deliberating upon a union amongst themselves
; but the Charlottetown delegates
perceived that the Confederation which we
proposed to them would be much more
advantageous to all the provinces than that
upon which they were engaged, and they at
once consented to accept our proposition.
Accordingly they came to Quebec, and the
result of their visit was the plan which
has
been submitted to this House. The hon.
member for Hochelaga has, therefore, no
right to reproach us with having altered the
plan promised to the House, since it is word
for word that which we promised. This
measure, as I observed a short time ago,
cannot last, unless it protects the interests
of all. Now, we have different
interests in
Lower Canada, in which reside two populations differing in origin, differing in religion,
and speaking different
languages. On the
other hand, Upper Canada has a homogeneous
population, but one professing different
religions, and so it is with respect to the
several Maritime Provinces. In these latter
provinces, also, we have more than one hundred thousand fellow countrymen of French
origin. Well, Mr. SPEAKER, we have taken
care to protect these different interests,
and
to preserve the rights of this population, by
uniting them in the Confederation to a people numbering a million souls of the same
origin as themselves. But we are told:
" You wish to form a new nationality." Let
us come to an understanding on this word,
Mr. SPEAKER. What we desire and wish,
is to defend the general interests of a great
country and of a powerful nation, by means
of a central power. On the other hand, we
do not wish to do away with our different
customs, manners and laws ; on the contrary,
those are precisely what we are
desirous of
protecting in the most complete manner
by means of Confederation. Under the
new system there will be no more reason
than at present to lose our character as
French or English, under the pretext that
we should all have the same general interests ; and our interests in relation to race,
religion and nationality will remain as
they
373
are at the present time. But they will be
better protected under the proposed system,
and that again is one of the strongest reasons
in favor of Confederation. Not only indeed
did we assure ourselves of that protection,
but the provinces who were parties to the
Confederation desired it also. All local
interests will be submitted and left to the decision of the local legislatures. There
will
be other exceptions with respect to Lower
Canada, and, in fact, all the exceptions in
the scheme of Confederation are in favor of
Lower Canada. These restrictions in favor
of Lower Canada were obtained by the
delegates from that province ; but they seek
no thanks for their conduct, as they consider that in so doing they only performed
a duty—a duty incumbent on all true patriots
and good citizens. All that they now come
to this House and ask for, is its sanction
to the measure which ensures these privileges to the populations which they represent.
I may add that, under Confederation,
all questions relating to the colonization
of our
wild lands, and the disposition and sale of
those same lands, our civil laws and all
measures of a local nature—in fact
everything which concerns and affects
those interests which are most dear to us as a
people, will be reserved for the action of
our local legislature ; all our charitable and
other institutions will be protected by the
same authority. There is also the question
of education. Upon this question,
as upon all
others, the Lower Canadian delegates have
seen to the preservation of certain privileges,
and that question has been left to our Local
Legislature, so that the Federal Legislature
shall not be able to interfere with it. It has
been said that with respect to agriculture the
power of legislation would be exercised concurrently by the Federal Legislature and
the
local legislatures. But the House is perfectly
well aware for what reason that concurrent
power was allowed. Every one,
indeed, is
aware that certain general interests may arise
respecting, which the
intervention of the
Central Legislature may be
necessary ; but,
Mr. SPEAKER, all interests relating to local
agriculture, everything connected with our
land will be left under the control of our
Lower Canadian Legislature, and this is a
point upon which we invariably insisted, and
which was never denied us in the
Conference.
It is thus clear that under Confederation as
proposed, the inhabitants of distant
parts of
the Confederacy, having the privilege of
laying their claims before their
respective
local legislatures, will not be put to the great
trouble of betaking themselves to the central
seat of government, when, for instance,
they
wish to obtain authority to build a bridge or
open a road. I now come, Mr. SPEAKER, to
the subject of the details of the measure, and
I shall reply to the observation of the honorable member for Hochelaga on that subject.
That honorable gentleman objects to the
appointment of the legislative councillors
by the Central Government, and adds that
those councillors will be appointed by a Tory
government, and will necessarily be selected
from among the tories. In making that
assertion the honorable member did not act
with that frankness which we are entitled to
expect from him. (Hear, hear.) He hardly
alluded, if he did so at all, to the clause
in the resolutions by which the opposition,
in the different parts of the Confederation,
are protected. In that clause it is provided
that the Central Parliament, in making
the appointments in question, shall be
careful to watch over the interests of the Opposition, as well as over those of the
Ministerial
party. Now, Mr. SPEAKER, when a government binds itself in this way, is it reasonable
and fair to believe or to suppose that it will
break its word which has been so solemnly
pledged ? For my part, I am convinced that
the members of the present Government,
should they form part of the Central Government, would fulfil what has been promised,
and would watch over the rights of the Oppsition as over those of the other party.
The
honorable member for Hochelaga also pretended that the Maritime Provinces had
forced upon us the clause which provides
that the legislative councillors in the General Parliament shall be a appointed
by the
Crown. Yet, the honorable member right
well knows that the elective principle in
our existing Legislative Council was merely an experiment, and that in Lower Canada
we have become tired of the system,
not because the councillors who have been
elected by the people are unworthy of the
position which they occupy, or because their
selection was an unfortunate selection, but
because the very nature of the system
prevents
a large number of men of talent, of men
qualified in every respect and worthy to sit in
the Legislative Council, from
presenting them-Â
selves for the suffrages of the electors, in consequence of the trouble, the fatigue
and enormous expense resulting from
these electoral
contests in enormous divisions. We know
that the system has wearied Lower Canada,
374
and that that province will approve of
our
having inserted the clause in question in
the resolutions. The vote which
took place
last night in another place, shows that I am
not mistaken in what I assert on this subject.
One of the greatest objections which the
honorable member for Hochelaga raises to the
appointment of the legislative
councillors by
the Crown, is that their number will be fixed,
and that, by consequence, it will prove an
obstacle to the decisions and legislation of the
Commons House of the Federal Parliament.
In a word, the honorable member declares that
the Legislative Council, so constituted, will
be, to use an English expression, a nuisance.
The honorable member should glance back at
the past to consider how many councillors appointed for life there were in the Legislative
Council at the time of the concession of the
elective principle, and how many of those said
councillors remain at the present day. He
would have ascertained that in eight years the
number had diminished by one-half. Of the
forty-two or forty-three members which there
were then, there now remain but twenty-one
or twenty-two. (Hear, hear.) The honorable member for Hochelaga should also have
admitted that in those eight years there had
been such considerable changes among the
elected councillors, that there was no danger
of the Legislative Council not being at least
accessible to the people. This diminution
gives an average of three members a-year,
and if we take the proportion between this
diminution and that which would necessarily
prevail among a larger number of councillors,
we shall find that there will be at least five
vacancies in each year. The honorable member must then perceive that, if it should
happen that the Legislative Council should be so
opposed to the views of the Lower House as
systematically to reject the measures of the
popular branch of the Legislature, at the end
of a year or perhaps less, such changes would
be effected by death or otherwise, that we
should immediately have such an infusion of
new blood, that any attempt of this kind
could not be repeated for a long time.
Besides, the Legislative Council will not constitute a separate class like the House
of
Lords in England. The councillors will come
from among the people, with whom they will
have interests in common, and it is absurd to
suppose that they will be induced to oppose
systematically and constantly the measures
which the Lower House may enact in favor
of the people and at their instance. The hon.
member for Hochelaga, when on
this subject,
reproached the Attorney General for Upper
Canada with having stated in his opening
speech, that if he had to preside over the
selection of the legislative councillors, he
would see that the best qualified men were appointed. Now, Mr. SPEAKER, I see
nothing
in that declaration which is not in the most
perfect accordance with the interests of the
country, and it is important that the best men
from each section of the Confederacy should
be called to sit in this important branch of
our General Legislature. The honorable
member has taken occasion to find fault with
the clause of the resolutions which provides
that the lieutenant-governors
shall be appointed by the Central Government, and sees in it
great danger, especially to Lower Canada.
Mr. SPEAKER, I should very much like to
know what protection the population of the
different provinces derive from the fact that
the governors of the British North American
Provinces are sent out to us from England.
Under the existing system, our governor is
responsible neither to the people nor to the
House ; he depends entirely upon the English Government, to which he is responsible.
Under the system proposed the lieutenant-
governors will be appointed by
the Central Government, to which they will necessarily be
responsible for their actions. And in that
Government we shall have more than one vote ;
we shall be represented in it by our ministers,
who will be there to cause every encroachment
or arbitrary act which the lieutenant-governor
may allow himself to commit, to be condemned. If the Central Government should refuse
to do us this justice, and should persist in not
recalling any lieutenant-governor who should
have so failed in his duty to the population
which he governed, we should have our sixty-
five representatives to protest and to vote at
need against a government which should dare
to act in such away. In that respect we
should have much better guarantees than at
present ; and in very truth this is a new privilege that we have obtained, as the
people will
have a voice in these appointments, from the
fact that we shall have our responsible ministers in the Central Government, who will
be
sustained and supported by the members from
our section. In allusion to the appointment
of the lieutenant-governors, the honorable
member for Hochelaga thought proper to
make a violent attack upon the Conservative
party. He asserted that that party continually sought to diminish the liberties and
the
privileges of the people, whilst
the Liberal
party labored to extend and ensure those same
375
liberties. Well, Mr. SPEAKER, I believe
the
people know their interests as well as the honorable member for Hochelaga, and that
they
will not heap reproaches upon us for having
given them a Constitution, the object of which
is to protect their local and general rights in a
much more effectual manner than
they are
protected under the present system. While
thus attacking the Conservative party, the
honorable member for Hochelaga did not
neglect also to make a slight insinuation against
the delegates to the Conference. In fact, he
says :—
The Speaker of the Legislative Council
will
also be appointed by the Crown. This is another
retrograde step, and a bit of patronage more for
the Government. We have all heard talk of a
speech delivered lately in the Island of Prince
Edward or in New Brunswick—I forget which—in
which the speaker enumerated the advantages
which had been flashed in the eyes of the delegates,
while they were here, in the shape of appointments
which were to be looked for, as those of judges
in the Court of Appeals, of Speaker of the Legislative Council, of local governorships,
as one of
the causes of the unanimity which prevailed
among the members of the Conference.
The honorable member must have a very
mean
opinion of human nature, to suppose that public men, having such great interests entrusted
to them, and their own and their country's
honor to guard and to keep pure and unsullied
in the eyes of the world, would agree to betray
and deliver up their country for the love of a
poor appointment, even if it were the post of
lieutenant-governor or of chief justice. I am
willing to believe that that insinuation was a
slip of the tongue, and that he is already sorry
that it ever escaped from his
lips. Another
point on which the honorable member for
Hochelaga enlarged, is the militia question and
the defence of the country. On this head,
the honorable member declares that he cannot
understand how the union of the provinces is
to increase our strength. The experience of
the honorable member for Hochelaga and the
teachings of history ought, however, to have
taught him that a disunited people, scattered
over a vast extent of territory, must be an
easier conquest than one which is united under
a single strong and respected government.
This brings me to speak of another observation
made by the honorable member, who declared
that our best policy, in order to avoid all difficulty with our neighbors, and escape
the evils
of a war, would be to remain quiet and sit
with our arms across. The House will permit
me to quote the very expressions
of the honorable member on this subject :—
It would be a piece of folly for us to
raise a
standing army, by way of keeping off an invasion
of our frontier. Our best plan is to remain quiet,
and to give no pretext to our neighbors for
making war on us. Let a healthy state of public
opinion be our shield ; let not the press violently
assail the northern authorities ; then if war comes
without any fault of ours, it will be our duty to do
our best to assist the Mother
Country in the
struggle which would ensue.
I think, as the honorable member does,
that
we ought not to give any just cause of dissatisfaction to our neighbors, and still
less attack
their frontier ; and the present Government
have given proof, on all occasions, that they
are disposed to respect the rights and opinions
of the American people. But, on the other
hand, the honorable member is the first to
inform us that the best means of defending
ourselves is, not to be ready and accustomed
to the use of arms, but to remain unarmed,
with our arms across like men of peace—in
plain terms, to give ourselves up, bound hand
and foot. Now, I will ask him a plain question. If he were apprehensive of an attack
from a neighbor of his, would he go to him
and say, " Here I am, do what you please with
me," or would he not rather be prepared to
meet an attack ? I rather think that the
honorable member would not be long in making
up his mind as to which course he would
take. Now, that which is wise and politic
in
an individual is equally wise and politic in
the case of a nation. We are not desirous of
assuming a threatening attitude towards our
neighbors. On the contrary, our wish is to
live with them in peace and quietness. We
are anxious not to do the least act which can
be construed into a threat ; but we should be
lamentably blind if, with the enormous military armament of our neighbors before our
eyes, we looked at this formidable military
display with our arms across, and a careless
disregard of its greatness in our hearts. Such
an attitude would neither be patriotic nor
worthy of a nation of free men. The most
certain way to avoid an attack and subjugation
by our neighbors, to have our independence
and our privileges respected, is to shew them
that we are prepared to defend them at any
cost. The honorable member for Hochelaga
has declared that he is prepared to make some
sacrifices to defend the country, but he has
not told us how much he is ready to do in
that behalf. Perhaps he will let us know at
a future time, if we are called upon to spend
money for the purpose. However that may
be, I must animadvert on the remarks which
he has made with regard to the volunteers.
376
Speaking of the expense which the Government were incurring for the defence of the
frontier, he said that 30,000 militiamen would
cost thirty millions of dollars ! The honorable
member has a singular way of calculating.
The fact is, if we were under the necessity of
raising an army of 30,000 men, we should not
pay them at the rate of a dollar, nor even
three-quarters of a dollar, a head. The honorable member for Hochelaga knows as well
as I do that the militia force now on foot and
doing duty at the frontier, or in garrison in
the interior, was called out in circumstances
altogether exceptional, and that the Government were quite unable to control, to the
extent they would perhaps have desired, the
rate of pay which was to be allowed. The
honorable member must likewise be aware
that those brave militiamen gave the greatest
proof of their love of country, and in many
cases made very great sacrifices to the detriment of their own interest and that of
their
families. Many of them were employes in
commercial houses, some in counting-houses,
others in workshops, which gave them much
higher remuneration than they are now receiving from the Government, and I consider
it very bad taste indeed that any should
grudge them their paltry pay, under the pretence that it will be a heavy item on the
budget. (Hear, hear.) They did not hesitate, when the country claimed their services,
to risk their health and to give
up the comforts
and delights of home, and I am well assured
that the people will not grudge them the miserable half crown which they receive in
exchange, and will approve of what the Government has done under the circumstances.
The
honorable member for Hochelaga reproaches
the Government with another misdeed.
The truth is that he finds something wrong,
some short-coming, in every action of the
present Administration. Accordingly, alluding to the right of veto permitted to the
General Government, the honorable member
expresses himself in this manner : " Thus, if
a measure were passed by a majority of a
local legislature, and if, nevertheless, the majority of the section of the General
Government representing that particular province
were opposed to it, would not that section use
all their influence in the General Government
to throw out that measure ?" Before answering the honorable member, Mr. SPEAKER, I
think it will be well to refer to the two clauses
which relate to that matter. In these clauses
we find :—
1. Any bill of the General Parliament may
be
reserved in the usual manner for Her Majesty's
assent, and any bill of the local legislatures may,
in like manner, be reserved for the consideration
of the Governor General.
2. Any bill passed by the General
Parliament
shall be subject to disallowance by Her Majesty
within two years, as in the case of bills passed
by the legislatures of the said provinces hitherto ;
and, in like manner, any bill
passed by a local
legislature shall be subject to disallowance by the
Governor General within one year after the passing thereof.
Well, I ask the House, what is wrong in
those two clauses ? At present, what is our
position when a bill has passed the two Houses
of our Legislature ? It is this : the bill is
submitted for the sanction of the Governor
General, and in nearly all cases is sanctioned
without being referred to the Imperial Government. But if, for instance, the bill
relates
to a divorce, or to any question which concerns the Imperial Government, or if again
it is a measure affecting our relations with
our neighbors or any other nation, it is then
reserved for Her Majesty's sanction. When
a measure is thus reserved, does the honorable
member for Hochelaga suppose that the members of the English Government meet to take
it into consideration ? Not at all ; there is
in the Colonial Office a second or a third class
clerk whose particular business it is, and who
makes his report to the minister. This report
decides either the sanction or the disallowance
of the measure in question. If the measure
is highly interesting to the country and is
disallowed, we cannot blame any one and must
submit, as the English ministry are not responsible to us. Under the Confederation
this danger and inconvenience will no longer
exist. In a case wherein the Local Government
of Lower Canada should pass a law which the
Lieutenant-Governor might think fit to reserve for the sanction of the Central Government,
if the latter refused their sanction, although it was demanded by the people of the
section, and there were no reason for this refusal, we should have our sixty-five
members
in the Central Parliament to protest against
it, and who would unite and make combinations to turn out the ministry who should
set
in that manner. And you are not to say that
those sixty-five members would be powerless
against the rest of the House. United in a
compact phalanx, they would, without doubt,
find support among the members of the other
provinces, who would have every reason
not to allow our rights and privileges to
be infringed, lest they should one day experience the same treatment themselves
in
377
regard to their own. On the other hand,
Mr. SPEAKER, the disallowance of
a measure
sanctioned by the local governments is limited
as to time, and must be declared within twelve
months, whereas, under the present system,
it can be done within two years. This is a
restriction which has been
granted in favor of
Lower Canada and of all the other provinces
of the Confederation ; it is a restriction favorable to the people, but the honorable
member will refuse, no doubt, to acknowledge that
this concession to the people is our work.
Moreover, why should we be afraid of this
veto? In our Local Legislature we assuredly
have no intention to be unjust towards a portion of the population, but propose to
act
towards them, as in times past, as towards
equals ; we intend, in short, to be as just to
that part of the population as we were when
they were a feeble element in it. This has
not prevented the honorable member for Hochelaga from telling the English members
from Lower Canada that they must be on
their guard and take care of themselves.
Well, Mr. SPEAKER, I shall not offer such an
insult to the race to which I belong. The
French-Canadians have always acted honorably towards the other races who live among
them, and they will certainly not take advantage now, any more than they have done
in
times past, of the majority they may have in
the Local Legislature to molest or persecute the
minority. This is the reason why we have
no fear nor misgiving relative to the right of
veto. Moreover, we are not to suppose that
the intention of the two clauses which I have
already quoted, is that every bill passed in the
local legislatures will be reserved for the sanction of the Central Government. That
reservation will take place only in respect of
such measures as are now reserved for Her
Majesty's sanction. So that the honorable
member for Hochelaga is widely mistaken
when he reproaches the present Government for
having agreed to those two clauses. Another
question on which the hon. member has also
called us to account, relates to
the export
duties on timber and coals. In clause 29,
which relates to the powers of the Federal
Parliament, the third section reads as follows :
The imposition or regulation of duties of
customs on imports or exports,
except on exports
of timber, logs, masts, spars, deals, and sawn
lumber from New Brunswick, and of coal and
other minerals from Nova Scotia.
The fact that this power has been
conferred
on the Government does not imply that it
will be exercised. The power was granted
simply because it might be
necessary in certain
cases mentioned. Now this is the reason for
the second part of the clause which I have just read to the House, and which I cannot
better explain than by citing some expressions
of a speech by the Hon. the Minister of
Finance on the subject. Nevertheless, as there
are several honorable members in the House
who do not understand English, I think it
will perhaps be better to explain them in
French. Here then was the thought of the
Convention : as in New Brunswick the Government had found that it was a great disadvantage
to collect the duties on timber according to the system formerly adopted, and
they had substituted an export duty which
superseded all other dues on that product,
it was no more than right that this source of
revenue should remain in New Brunswick, to
which province it was an object of absolute
necessity to defray its local expenses. In
Canada we retain, under the new Constitution,
our own method of collecting similar duties.
As to New Brunswick, the duty on the article
in question is their principal revenue, as coal
is almost the sole revenue of Nova Scotia ;
and if they had been deprived of them, they
would have peremptorily refused to join the
Confederation. (Hear, hear.)
Their demand
was perfectly just, and could not therefore be
refused. Moreover, we have no right to complain, for they leave us all our mines and
our
lands, and we shall now, as heretofore, collect
the proceeds for our own use and profit. The
honorable member for Hochelaga says that it
will be impossible to administer the affairs of
the local legislatures without having recourse
to direct taxation ; but a man of his experience ought not to have made that assertion.
Instead of attempting to trade on popular
prejudice, he ought to have admitted at once
that the right granted by the new Constitution
of levying direct taxes, is the same that
already exists in the present Constitution ;
it is the same right that all our municipalities possess. It does not follow that
the right will
be
exercised. But the honorable member
knows well that the people are not in favor
of direct taxation, and that they would be
unwilling to adopt it as a system, in place of
indirect taxes ; hence his attempt to use it as
a bug-bear in order to alarm the people of
Lower Canada. We must bear in mind that
the proceeds of the local revenue of Lower
Canada will be employed in
defrayiug local
expenses. The Hon. Minister of Finance has
stated that in Lower Canada the local revenue
will be $557,000, besides the 80
cents per
378
head of the population to be paid each
year,
in half-yearly payments in advance, by the
Federal Government. This subsidy will,
therefore, amount to $888,000, making a total
of $1,446,000 for the local requirements of
Lower Canada. I am aware that the honorable member has cast a doubt upon the
accuracy of the figures set down by the Hon.
Minister of Finance, and attempted to show
that the local revenue would not be as large ;
but the figures I shall give are taken from
the Public Accounts, and I think it will be admitted that they must be considered
to be
correct. At all events, here are the figures I
have gathered from an examination of the
official documents :—
| Expenses other than those of the
legislature and of the local
debt of Lower Canada ...... |
$ 997,000 |
| Cost of legislation ........... |
150,000 |
| Interest on local debt .......... |
90,000 |
| Total ................. |
$1,237,000 |
Now the revenue of Lower Canada will be
as
follows, taking the present figures and without
adding the probable increase :—
| Slide dues ..................... |
$ 49,040 |
| Casual ......................... |
4,000 |
| Quebec Fire Loan ............... |
294 |
| Fines, &c ...................... |
341 |
| Tax on judicial proceedings ...... |
91,731 |
| Cullers' fees, measuring timber. . . |
79,960 |
| Interest on Municipal Loan Fund .. |
114,889 |
| Court houses. Lower Canada ..... |
25,392 |
| Jury and building fund, L. C ...... |
29,710 |
| L. C. municipal fund ............ |
38,752 |
| Common school lands ............ |
128,340 |
| Tavern licenses applied to L. C. municipal fund .............. |
3,962 |
| Crown lands ................... |
205,512 |
| Total revenue ......... |
771,823 |
| 80c per head of population ....... |
888,888 |
|
1,660,712 |
| LESS:—Interest
on municipal loan
fund, and proceeds of school
lands ..................... |
243,129 |
| Leaving a net revenue of... |
$1,4l7,582 |
Now it is evident that these figures agree
with the calculations of the Honorable Finance Minister, less a difference of $20,000
to $25,000. Lower Canada will have a revenue of nearly $1,500,000, and the excess
of
its revenue over expenditure, according to the
calculations of the Honorable the Finance
Minister, will be $209,000.
HON. MR. DORION—Why do you deduct
the revenue from the Municipal Loan Fund ?
Is it because Lower Canada is to be
charged
with the payment of the Municipal Loan Fund
debt ?
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN—I strike
out the item of revenue from the common school lands, because in the course of
time the lands will become exhausted, and the
revenue cannot be considered as permanent.
Besides, the amount must be added to the
Common School Fund, and cannot really be
considered as an ordinary source of revenue.
It is the same as regards the Municipal Loan
Fund, which cannot be considered as permanent revenue, and I wish to count only the
ordinary items of revenue. But, on the other
hand, it must be seen that many of the items
of revenue will increase in course of
time, so
that the surplus of revenue over expenditure
in Lower Canada will always be considerable.
HON. MR. DORION — The honorable
member did not understand my question. I
asked him whether Lower Canada will be
compelled to pay the municipal
debt, and he
has not answered.
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN—I understood the honorable gentleman perfectly
well, but I make it a rule never to allow myself to be turned aside by interruptions,
and
I shall not depart from that rule now. (Hear,
hear.) The figures I have given are highly
important, for they demonstrate that Lower
Canada will have a real revenue under the
new Constitution—a revenue which is not
calculated upon the probable increase and
prosperity of the country, but upon the present revenue—of nearly $1,500,000, to meet
local expenses. And yet, in the face
of these
figures, which are based upon the most evident facts, honorable members talk of
direct
taxes. They simply want to frighten the
country. But the people will see that there
is no danger of direct taxation with the surplus revenue we shall have. Direct taxation
must be resorted to if Lower Canada should
give way to extravagance and
spend more
than her means, but not otherwise. Lower
Canada will have a revenue sufficient to meet
all its expenses, unless it follow the example of a person with an income of ÂŁ400,
who
should expend ÂŁ1,000. The total expenses
of Lower Canada for all purposes, less the
cost of legislation and the payment of interest
on the local debt, will be $997,000,
calculating
the expenditure upon the present basis. But
it is evident that Lower Canada will reduce
its expenditure, such for instance as the
expenditure connected with the Crown Lands
department, and that economy will be prac
379
tised in order, at a future period, to
meet the
of local works, without rendering it
necessary to defer other necessary items of
expenditure. The expenses of the local legislation of Lower Canada may be set down
at $150,000, and that is a reasonable estimate
if we remember that all questions of general
interest are to be discussed and regulated by
the Federal Parliament, and that the local
legislatures will only have to deal with questions of local interest. It is clear
that the
sessions will be far shorter than they are at
present, and far less expensive. Every one
will admit that under the present system long
discussions do not take place in
the House on
private bills and measures of local interest,
which are discussed in committees, but that
such discussions occur on questions of a general interest, such as railways,
taxation, the
tariff, Confederation, and that these are the
discussions which prolong the session. I say,
moreover, that the interest on the portion of
the public debt to be assigned to us will be
about $90,000, and that our total yearly expenditure will reach $1,237,000, leaving
us a
surplus revenue of $209,000. I
trust Lower
Canada will have the prudence to set apart a
large portion of the $209,000,
in order to
carry out hereafter local works and improvements without being compelled to touch
its
yearly revenue.
MR. DUFRESNE (Iberville)—The surplus can be put out at interest !
(Laughter.)
HON. SOL. GEN.
LANGEVIN — The
honorable member for Hochelaga feigns great
uneasiness as to the position of
Lower Canada
in the Confederation, as well as to the matter
of direct taxes. He spoke at great length as
to the prosperous financial
position of Lower
Canada when she entered the union in 1841 ;
but we must remember that before the union
the revenue of Lower Canada was
but $580,000, and that, nevertheless, she was compelled
to provide for all local expenses and many
items of general expense which, under the
Confederation, will fall within the domain of
the Federal Government, such, for instance,
as the payment of the salaries of the judges,
etc. Under the Confederation Lower Canada
will have a surplus of over $200,000 on its
local expenditure, even though the present expenditure should not be reduced. The
honorable member for Hochelaga also said that
the share of the debt apportioned to Lower
Canada, apart from the general debt, would
be $4,500,000. He must have made
serious
errors in his calculations in order to arrive at
such a result. The debt of the two Canadas
at the present moment, deducting
the Sinking
Fund, is $67,263,000 ; comparing the
calculation of the honorable member with that put
forth by him in his address to his electors in
1863, I find he has arrived at a perfectly different result, and he has no right to
accuse others
of being in error. Thus, in his address he
states that apart from the then debt, $16,000,000 would be required for the Intercolonial
Railway, and yet he now asserts that
it would take twenty millions.
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN— The
honorable member should not trust to the calculations of the President of the Council,
since he himself has stated that nothing good
can come from this side of the House. But
the fact is the honorable member was anxious
not to frighten the people at that time, and
therefore it was that he spoke of sixteen millions, whereas now he speaks of twenty.
With regard to the amount of the public
debt, the Hon. Minister of Finance has given
us figures taken from the most reliable sources,
and I prefer adopting his figures to following
those of the honorable member for Hochelaga.
The Hon. Minister of Finance told us that
the total debt of the two Canadas, without
counting the Sinking Fund, was $67,263,000,
and that the Federal Government would undertake $62,500,000. There will therefore
remain about $4,763,000 to be divided between Upper and Lower Canada, and if Lower
Canada takes for its share $4,500,000 as the
honorable member stated, there will only remain about $263,000 for Upper Canada !
I
do not see how the honorable gentleman has
managed to arrive at such a result, for it is
clearly erroneous.
HON. MR. DORION—Let the Honorable
Soliticitor General apply to the Honorable
Minister of Finance, and he will get the explanation.
HON. SOLICITOR GENERAL LANGEVIN
—It is evident that the honorable member for
Hochelaga, in his calculation of the apportionment of the residue of the debt between
Upper
and Lower Canada, has put a 4 in place of a
1 or 2, in the same way that he put 20 in
place of 16 in the matter of the Intercolonial
Railway. In his anxiety to find fault he sees
double, and instead of seeing five millions to
be divided, he sees nine. The
debt devolving
upon Lower Canada will not be $4,500,000.
Lower Canada will have only its just share of
the five millions to be divided.
HON. MR. DORION —— The honorable
member has forgotten the explanations of the
Honorable Minister of Finance, who stated
380
that the debt incurred for the redemption
of
the seigniorial tenure, which amounts to
three millions, was not included
in the general
debt.
HON. SOLICITOR GENERAL LANGEVIN
—The Minister of Finance stated the whole
debt, in his speech at Sherbrooke, at $67,263,994. The amount of the debt is $75,578,000
; but it is necessary to deduct the
Sinking Fund and cash in bank, $7,132,068,
reducing it to $68,445,953 ; the
Minister of
Finance also deducted the Common School
Fund, which amounts to $1,181,958,
and he
arrived at the result I have just given, that is
to say, that the real debt of Canada is $67,263,994. I do not give all the items of
the
public debt, for I do not think it devolves
upon me to prove that the calculations of the
Finance Minister are not correct ; that is the
task of those who accuse him of error ; and
the Public Accounts are there to shew that
the Finance Minister has stated nothing but
the truth. The honorable member for Hochelaga has manifested excessive anxiety respecting
the financial position of the Confederation ; but in this case also we have the
same guarantees as for that of
the local governments. He asserted, for instance, that
Newfoundland was too poor to contribute to
the revenue of the Confederation, and that, in
place of receiving anything from that province,
we shall be compelled to send down money to
prevent the people of the island from perishing by cold. The honorable gentleman is,
nevertheless, well aware that Newfoundland
has a large revenue, a revenue of $480,000,
and that its expenses are less than its income.
Newfoundland will receive its share from the
Federal chest, but it will also contribute to the
general revenue. While I am considering this
portion of the honorable gentleman's speech,
I must admit that it is the strongest argument
in behalf of Confederation, from the standpoint of the Lower Provinces, that could
be
brought forward ; and, for my part, I desire
to see thousands of copies of
his speech sent
to those provinces, for his object clearly is to
shew that the measure would be entirely to
their advantage. He has attempted to shew
that they will have a larger revenue than they
have at present ; but be omitted to state that
Lower Canada would have $200,000 over and
above her expenses. He knows perfectly well
that the total revenue of the
provinces forms a
sum of $14,223,320, for 1864, and that the
total expenditure amounted only to $13,350,832, so that there is a surplus of $872,488,
apart from the revenue from increase of im
ports in 1864. The financial position is therefore highly favorable for the formation
of a
Confederation. The honorable member for
Hochelaga stated that New Brunswick would
have a surplus of $34,000 over its
expenditure, and he complains, upon that ground, of
the subsidy of $63,000 it is
proposed to pay
that province during ten years. But every
one is aware that the subsidy is
to be paid
because that province gives up all its revenues
to the Federal Government, except that derived
from its export duty on timber ; that was the
reason its delegates insisted on
the payment
of the subsidy during ten years, and they
were right. The honorable member also
stated that Prince Edward Island was to
receive $48,000 more than its expenses. But
how comes it then that Prince Edward Island has hitherto exhibited reluctance ? It
must be that that province takes a differentÂ
view from the honorable member. The
truth, however, is that Prince Edward
Island, like the other provinces, was treated
with justice and equity by the Quebec Conference, that its local requirements were
considered, and that a suflicient revenue to provide for them was awarded to it. The
honorable member for Hochelaga, who spoke in
English, took that opportunity to make a
violent appeal to the members from Upper
Canada, and told them that there would be
enormous imposts, and that two-thirds of the
revenue and of the taxes would be paid by
them. He did well to speak in English, for
I am certain that he would not make the
same assertion in French in the
presence of
the members from Lower Canada ; he would
make no appeal of that nature, and I regret
it, for that would give us the best of reasons
for entering into the Confederation ; but I
must acknowledge that that statement of the
honorable member is not exactly correct, for
the basis of the Confederation is justice to
all. The honorable member for Hochelaga
also said, in order to produce an effect upon
the members from Upper Canada, that the
extension of the Confederation westward was
a farce, " an absurd affair," because the
western provinces do not even think of it, and
because we have no communication with that
territory.
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN—Since the
question of Confederation has
been raised,
papers have arrived from Victoria
(Vancouver's Island) and from British Columbia, and
they all agree in saying that it is to their
381
advantage to unite themselves with the
provinces for all general business, reserving to
themselves the management of their local affairs. I quote as follows from one of the
journals in question :—
Whatever may be the result of the present
attempts to form a Confederation
of the North
American Colonies, we may be certain of one
thing, and that is, that but few years will pass
away before the accomplishment of a plan of this
nature. Half a dozen provinces lying adjacent
to each other, and subject to one and the same
power, having different tariffs, exhibit a state of
affairs which, from its very nature, cannot continue long. However, setting aside
this anomaly, we find North American Colonies for which
a more vast political career must be provided.
The people have too long labored under the
weight of disabilities which, by
wounding their
pride, have placed them in a humiliating position
before the eyes of the whole world. With all the
advantages of responsible government granted
to him by the Imperial authorities, after years
of strife and trials, the colonist hardly possesses
one half the national privileges enjoyed by an
Englishman. He is deprived of his share of
patronage even in cases in which he is entitled to
it and is eminently worthy of it. The position of
Colonial Governor is seldom or never granted to
him, and in many parts of Her Majesty 's
dominions he is forbidden to practise his profession in the courts of justice. We
therefore hail
this initiative taken by the Canadian
Government
as the commencement of the regeneration of the
colonists, who have hitherto remained in pupilage.
With a confederation of colonies extending from
one ocean to the other, what limits shall we
assign to our greatness, our
material progress
and our political aspirations ? Instead of seeing
the talent of our statesmen fettered, harassed
and
restrained within the narrow
limits of local politics, we shall find its scope extended to a whole
continent, while a more vast and natural field
will be thrown open to the active and enterprising
spirit of the North American Provinces. Want
of space prevents our entering upon this question
at greater lenth to-day ; but we hope that the
movement will succeed and will
allow us at no
distant day to emerge from the isolated and feeble
position in which we now are, to become a part
of the great British North American Confederation.
That is the language of one of the newspapers of those colonies. What has the
hon. member to say to it ? I hope I shall
be forgiven for reading some
more extracts
from these journals, which we do not read
here as much as we ought to do, although
they are of a nature to give us
information
respecting that part of British North
America. Another paper says :—
There is then but one course left for the
Eng
lish colonies, and more especially the North
American and Australian colonies. Before ten
years have passed over our heads, the population
of the colonies comprised between Vancouver's
Island and Newfoundland will be
hardly less than
six millions of souls, occupying a territory as
large as that of the United States before the civil
war, and in extent greater than three-fourths of
the continent of Europe. With telegraphic communication and railways from one ocean
to the
other, with a Federal union, in which will be
combined and concentrated all the talent of the
colonies, and the object of which will be to represent the various interests of those
colonies,
what country has before it a more splendid future
than this immense Confederation, with its innumerable and inexhaustible resources
?
I shall not occupy any further time in
quoting from these journals, but
I wished to
demonstrate that the plan of Confederation
is not only a plan of political men in
their extremity, as was said by the hon.
member for Hochelaga, but that the provinces give in their adherence to it, because
they perceive that it will be advantageous to
them. As to the facilities for communication,
I shall quote an excellent authority—Professor HIND—to show that they are not so
limited as the hon. member declares them to
be. The following is from an essay by Professor HIND on the subject of the North-
West Territory : —
The Canadian emigrant party assembled at
Fort
Garry, in June, 1862, travelling thither by Detroit,
La Crosse, St. Paul, and Fort Abercrombie, by
rail, stage and steamer. At Fort Garry they
separated into two parties ; the first division contained about one hundred emigrants,
the second
division, sixty-five persons. The first party took
the northern route, by Carlton to Edmonton ; the
second, the southern trail. At Edmonton they all
changed their carts for horses and oxen, and
went thence in a straight line to the Leather Pass
(lat. 54° ), through which they took 130 oxen,
and about 70 horses. They suddenly found themselves on the head waters of the Fraser
river, and
so gentle was the ascent that the only means they
had of knowing that they had passed the dividing
ridge of the Rocky Mountains was by
unexpectedly observing the waters of the rivers flowing to the westward. When in the
mountains they
killed a few oxen for provisions ; others were sold
to the Indians at TĂŞte Jaune Cache, on the Fraser
river, and others were rafted down the Fraser to
the forks of the Quesnelle.
At TĂŞte Jaune Cache
a portion of the party separated from the rest,
and, with fourteen horses, went across the country
by an old well-worn trail, to Thompson's river,
and thus succeeded in taking their horses from
Fort Garry through the Rocky Mountains—
through a supposed impassable part of British
Columbia—to the wintering station on Thomp
382
son's river for the pack animals of the
British
Columbia gold-seekers. With this party of more
than 150 people were a woman and three
little children. The little children were well
cared for, for the emigrants took a cow with
them, and these infant travellers
were supplied
with milk all the way on their long journey to the
Leather Pass in the Rocky Mountains. I look
upon the successful journey of the Canadian emigrants in 1862, across the continent,
as an event
in the history of Central British America of unexampled importance. It cannot fail
to open the
eyes of all thinking men to the singular natural
features of the country which formed the scene of
this remarkable journey. Probably there is no
other continuous stretch of country in the world,
exceeding 1,000 miles in length, and wholly in a
state of nature, which it would be possible for 100
people, including a woman and three children, to
traverse during a single short season, and successfully, and indeed easily overcome
such apparently formidable obstacles as the Rocky Mountains
have been supposed to present.
On a review of what is now known of
Central
British America, the following facts cannot fail
to arrest the attention and occupy the thoughts
of those who think it worth while to consider its
future, and its possible relation to ourselves during
the next and succeeding generations.
We find in the great basin of Lake
Winnipeg
an area of cultivable land equal to three times
the area of this province, and equal to the available land for agricultural settlement
in the province of Canada. It is watered by great lakes, as
large as Lake Ontario ; and by a vast river, which
in summer is navigable to within sight of the
Rocky Mountains. It contains inexhaustible supplies of iron, lignite, coal, salt,
and much gold.
It has a seaport within 350 miles, via the Nelson
River, of Hudson Bay, which is accessible for three
months in the year for steamers.
This great basin contains the only area
left on
the American continent where a new nation can
spring into existence.
This is a complete refutation of the
statement
made by the hon. member for Hochelaga,
that communication with those colonies is
impossible. In a part of the lecture from
which I have just quoted, Professor HIND
says that, between Lake Superior and the
Lake of the Woods, the distance is only about
200 miles, and when once that is got over,
an immense valley more than a thousand
miles in length is attained—a magnificent
valley, which may form part of the Confederacy and provide an outlet for our population.
The hon. member for Hochelaga also
told us, that if we accepted Confederation
we should subsequently be drawn into a
legislative union ; but he well knows that
by the Constitution which is submitted
to this House, the question of a
Federal
union only is mooted. If at a subsequent
period our
descendants should choose to
have a legislative union, that will ; be their
affair and not ours ; if they do choose to
have it, it will be because they will
then be
strong enough to have nothing to fear.
Further, without entering into all the details
relating to the position, as to
religion, of
Lower Canada in the Confederation, I must
call attention to the fact that the total population of all the provinces, in 1861,
was
3,300,000 souls, and of these the total number of Catholics amounted to 1,494,000.
Thus they will be numerous enough to
protect their religious and other interests ;
and those interests will be in a position of
safety in the local legislatures. We do not
seek to be allowed privileges which others
have not ; we only wish that our rights may
be respected as we respect those of others.
French-Canadians are not, have never been,
and will not become persecutors either in
political or religious matters
under the Confederation. I appeal to men belonging to
other religions to say whether we have ever
proved unjust or persecutors to
them. That
part of the population of Lower Canada
which is of foreign origin will have nothing
to fear under the Local Government, any
more than we shall have anything to fear
under the Federal Government. But in
consideration of what has been said by the
honorable members for Hochelaga and Lotbiuière, and of the mistrust which they have
endeavored to create in the minds of the
French-Canadian and Catholic population of
Lower Canada, I think the House will allow
me to read an extract from a letter written
by His Grace the Archbishop of Halifax,
who is likely to understand the interests of
the Catholic population quite as well as the
two honorable members in question. This
is the reply which he makes to those who
pretended that we had reason to fear invasion of the country by the Fenians : —
If there be fifty thousand men already
prepared to invade this country, as you admit, instead
of laboring to keep us in our present disjointed
and defenceless position, you should rather call
on all to unite where a single man cannot be
dispensed with, and gird on our armor for the
rencontre. If responsible government, which the
great and good men of this country won for us, be
a precious heirloom on the lilliputian scale on
which we now find it, instead of bartering it away
for nothing by Confederation, as you say, we shall
rather, in my opinion, add to its lustre and value,
and ennoble and enrich it, and make it boundlessly grander and more secure for ourselves
and
those who are to come after us. We obtained
383
responsible government from the Mother Country,
in whose legislative halls we had not a single
member to represent us. We are now, on the
contrary, asking to transfer the rich and prized
deposit to a place which will be a part only of our
common country, where our voice must be heard,
and where we will have a fuller and fairer representation than the city of London
or Liverpool,
or Bristol, can boast of in their English House of
Commons ; and this is the great difference between
obtaining from England what we had not, and
transferring what we now have, in order to make
it more valuable and more available for our own
purposes, and by far more secure. Confederation, therefore, instead of depriving us
of the
privileges of self-government, is the only practical
and reliable guarantee for its continuance. We
are too small to be warranted in the hope of being
able to hold it always on the strength of our own
resources ; and England, if not too weak, is certainly too prudent and too cautious
to risk her
last shilling and her last man in a country where,
instead of a population of four millions, she will
have scarcely one-tenth of that number to help her
against the united power of a whole continent.
To deny, therefore, the obvious advantages of
Confederation, you must first
prove that union is
not strength — at England under
the heptarchy,
and France under the feudal
chief and barons,
were greater and stronger and happier than they
now are as the two greatest nations of the
world.
Here, again, is what he says in answer to
those who will have nothing to do with
defence, under the pretext that we have
nothing to fear from our neighbors :—
No nation ever had the power of conquest
that
did not use it, or abuse it, at the very first
favorable opportunity.
All
that is said of the magnanimity and forbearance of mighty nations, can
be explained on
the principle of sheer expediency, as the world
knows. The whole face of Europe has been
changed, and the dynasties of many hundred years
have been swept away within our own time, on
the principle of might alone—the oldest,
the
strongest, and, as some would have it, the most
sacred of all titles. The thirteen states of
America, with all their professions of self-denial,
have been all the time, by money-power, and by
war, and by negotiation extending their frontier,
until they more than quadrupled their territory
within sixty years ; and believe it who may, are
they now, of their own accord, to come to a full
stop? No ; as long as they have
the power they
must go onward, or it is the very nature of
power to grip whatever is within its reach. It is
not their hostile feelings, therefore, but it is
their power, and only their power I dread.
In reply to those who declare that the
best
defence we can have is no defence at all, he
says :—
To be fully prepared is the only
practical
argument that can have weight with a
powerful
enemy, and make him pause
beforehand and
count the cost. And as the sort of preparation
I speak of is utterly hopeless without the union
of the provinces, so at a moment when public
opinion is being formed on this vital point, as one
deeply concerned, I feel it a duty to declare myself unequivocally in favour of
Confederation as
cheaply and as honorably obtained as possible,
but Confederation at all hazards and at all reasonable sacrifices.
After the most mature consideration, and
all
the arguments I have heard on both sides for the
last month, these are my inmost convictions on
the necessity and the merits of a measure which
alone, under Providence, can secure to us social
order and peace, and rational liberty and all the
blessings we now enjoy under the mildest government and the hallowed institutions
of the freest
and happiest country in the world.
I will now draw your attention to a short
letter from the Roman Catholic Bishop of
Newfoundland, which has not yet been read
in the House, but which has just been published in the newspapers :—
ST. JOHNS, Jan. 5th, 1865.
MY DEAR
SIR,—In reply to your communication
of this date, I beg to state that I took no notes of
the observations I made at the last examination
of the youth of St. Bonaventure's College. I
distinctly remember, however, that among other
arguments I used to impress on parents and
scholars the necessity of education, one was, that
according to the tendency of the age, a union of all
the British North American Provinces would take
place, if not immediately, by the force of circumstances in a few years ; and that
such a union
would have an extraordinary influence on the
rising generation in Newfoundland. People were
in the habit of saying that education of a high
class was useless in this country, as the field was
too limited. I repudiated that idea altogether.
Newfoundlanders were not confined to this island,
the British Empire and the States were open to
them. Wherever the English language was
spoken, there was an opening for an educated
Newfoundlander. But independently of that,
the
Confederation of the Provinces would open up a
home-market for education and talent—a market
increasing every year, and of which at present we
can form no conception. The bar, for example,
would be open to all ; the Central Legislature
would open up a great field for political ability ;
the highest offices of the law and the government
would be open to Newfoundlanders as well as to
Canadians or Nova Scotians ; and I hope that they
would be found perfectly qualified by education to
take their places, side by side, with their fellowconfederates, and compete for the
prizes the
Confederation would hold out to them, on terms
of perfect equality. I sincerely believe that they
could do so, as, from my experience, I considered
that the youth of this country have as fine talents,
384
and as
great an adaptability for learning, as I have
seen in any part of the world ; and that I never
saw, in any part of Europe, boys acquitting themselves better (and in many cases not
so well) than
they did at the preparatory
examinations and the
present exhibition. This, so far as I recollect,
was the substance of the remarks I made on the
fact, immediate or
prospective, of the Provincial
Confederation.
Thus, whilst some honorable members seek
to alarm Lower Canada by asserting that our
religion and our nationality are in danger,
here we have an Archbishop and a Bishop
declaring themselves strongly in favor of
Confederation, and who do not see in it any
danger for their flocks. And it is well
known, even here, that the whole of the
estimable and most respected body of the
clergy, from those of the highest rank down to
the very humblest of their followers, are in
favor of Confederation. But the honorable
member for Hochelaga, for the purpose of
frightening Lower Canada, has told us that
we should very soon have a legislative union,
and that in that case the fifty French-
Canadian members from Lower Canada
would coalesce with the minority of the
Federal Parliament, with the view of
obstructing the working of the Government.
Well, what better proof could we have that
we have nothing to fear, and that we shall
not be exposed to danger under Confederation ? History is before us to prove that
there will always be an opposition, and
that if an attempt is made to oppress
any one section of the Confederation,
its representatives would unite in a body
with the minority, and having thereby constituted a majority, would prevent any injustice
on the part of the Federal Government.
I beg to thank the hon. member for having,
against his will, furnished me with so strong
an argument in favor of Confederation. The
hon. member then appealed to the national
passions and the prejudices of race. He told
us that the Protestant minority in Lower
Canada would have to seek protection
against the majority of that section. I repeat it, he made that assertion in English,
and would not repeat it in French. But
what treatment did the minority receive in
Lower Canada when she had a separate Parliament? Did not the French-Canadian
majority always exercise liberality towards
our fellow-countrymen whose origin and religion was different from ours ? Thank
God, our race is not a persecuting race ; it
has ever been liberal and tolerant. The hon.
member for Lotbinière (Mr. JOLY) has
also
appealed to the religious and national prejudices of the English minority of Lower
Canada, but he ought to remember that there
is no more danger for the English race in
Lower Canada than for any other, and that
he was the very last member of the House
who ought to appeal to religious or national
prejudices.
MR. JOLY—Mr. SPEAKER, I beg leave to
correct the honorable member.
MR. JOLY—But any member may correct another when he has been made to say
the very reverse of what he did say.
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN — Mr.
SPEAKER, I call the hon. gentleman to order.
I have not found fault with his having
spoken for three hours. I did not interrupt
him whilst he spoke, and consequently I do
not choose to be interrupted myself. I do
not wish to put words into his mouth which
he has not uttered, but I wish to have it
understood that he made an appeal to the
English of Lower Canada, calling upon them
to reflect on the fate of their race and their religion, when he read an extract from
the report
of Lord DURHAM, the hon. gentleman took
very good care to read it in English only—
MR. JOLY—I protest against the language of the hon. member, and I claim the
right to explain.
MR. J. B. E. DORION—It is not so ; the
hon. member for Lotbinière did not appeal to
religious prejudices.
MR. JOLY— I desire to know, Mr.
SPEAKER, whether the hon. member is to be
allowed to assert that I said what I did not
say ?
MR. SPEAKER—The hon. member for
Lotbinière is entitled to explain his language,
or to correct the Solicitor General after he
has finished speaking.
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN — The
hon. gentleman is not pleased that an attack
should be made on one of his friends, and
yet he was by no means displeased at the
language used by the hon. member for Lotbinière last night when speaking of my
colleague the Hon. Attorney General.
At all
events I will not be interrupted.
385
MR. J.
B. E. DORION—This is the sort
of justice to be expected from the other side
of the House.
HON.
ATTY. GEN. CARTIER — You
may speak when you like ; you can speak
when your turn comes, but we shall not listen
to you.
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN—I assert
then that the hon. member for Lotbinière
has appealed to the passions, seeking to have
it believed on the one hand that French Canadian nationality and the Catholic religion
would be endangered by
Confederation, and
on the other hand that English nationality
and the Protestant religion would be exposed
to danger in Lower Canada under the local
government. He cited in the English language the report of Lord DURHAM, to induce
the belief that the English of Lower Canada
would never consent to submit to a legislature, the majority of which would be French-
Canadian ; but for my part I am not of that
opinion, and I think that they will submit
to it, because they are sure that they will
be treated with justice. It ill became
that hon. gentleman to make this statement,
when he is himself elected for a county exclusively Catholic, which has not hesitated
to entrust him with its interests. He ought
not to have made this appeal, as he himself
is a living proof of the religious tolerance
and liberality of our compatriots. Neither
did it become the hon. member for Hochelaga to speak as he did to the same effect,
when we have seen a large and important
electoral division—the division of Laurentides—reject a venerable gentleman who
presented himself for reelection to the
Legislative Council, a man who had been in
political life for more than twenty-five years,
to elect in his place an English Protestant,
Mr. PRICE, although there were not 1,500
Protestants in the whole division, out of a
population of 50,000 souls. The election of
the member for the county of Megantic (Mr.
IRVINE) is yet another evidence
of the
liberality of our fellow-countrymen, the
majority of the residents in that county
being French-Canadians and Catholics.
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN—On the
contrary, but for their votes he would not
have been returned to Parliament for that
county. I may further say, Mr. SPEAKER,
that the presence here of the hon. member
for Shefford (Hon. Mr. HUNTINGTON), that
of the member for Chateauguay (Hon. Mr.
HOLTON), and the presence of several other
members afford abundant proof of the
liberality of our fellow-countrymen, because
those honorable members, although English
and Protestant, represent counties the great
majority of the population in each of which
is French-Canadian and Catholic. The
English have always been dealt with more
liberally than the hon. member for Hochelaga
himself would, perhaps, treat us were he in
power. We did not require the aid of the
hon. members for Hochelaga and Lotbinière
for the protection of the minorities in the
Conference. We were the first to demand
that justice should be extended to the
Catholics of Upper Canada and the Protestants of Lower Canada, because we desired
to establish a solid work, and not to build
on the sand an edifice which would crumble
to dust the next day. The English
of Lower
Canada will not be excited by the appeals
of the hon. members, because they know
that whatever they can justly
claim will be
conceded to them without difficulty and
with all good will. Mr. SPEAKER, although
it is with great regret that I have to ask the
continued attention of the House, at this late
period of the evening, yet such is the great
importance of the question before us, that I
venture to hope that the House will pardon
me for presenting at such length my views
on this matter. I may be permitted, I hope,
to refute another assertion made by the
honorable member for Hochelaga. That
honorable member, who has found something
to censure in every article of the scheme of
Confederation, conceived that he produced
an argument that would be
irresistible by
asserting that the distribution of the debt
was unfair and burdensome to Lower Canada.
To give a greater force to this argument,
he stated that Lower Canada entered into the
union with a debt of $400,000, and that
she would leave it with a burden of $30,000,000, after having only expended in the
interval the sum of $12,000,000
for public
works within her limits. This argument is
most specious. Supposing that our debt was
$400,000, and that to-day it is
$30,000,000,
the honorable member must at all events
admit that the circumstances also have very
much changed. At the time of the union
our population was only 630,000, and to-day
it is 1,250,000. The honorable member,
too, must not forget that at the time of the
union our territory only produced 21,000,000
386
bushels of grain, whilst to-day it produces
more than 50,000,000 bushels. At the time
of the union we had only 1,298 schools, and
to-day we have 3,600. At the time of the
union these schools were attended only by
39,000 children, whilst to-day they are
attended by more than 200,000. At the
union the exportations from the ports of
Quebec and Montreal amounted to $9,000,000 ; to-day they exceed $18,000,000.
At
the union the number of vessels
built
annually in our shipyards was 48 only ; now
we have 88, and the tonnage is quadrupled.
At the time of the union our importations
amounted to $10,000,000, and to-day they
reach $45,000,000. At the time of the
union our exportations and importations
amounted to $16,000,000 ; to-day they reach
the enormous sum of $87,000,000. And
it is with such figures as these before us
that we are to be told that we are leaving
the union with a debt of $30,000,000 ! At
the time of the union the revenue arising
from the tax on bank-notes, which affords a
fair indication of the extent of business
done, amounted to $2 200 ; to-day
it amounts
to $15,800. At the time of the union
the number of merchantmen arriving in
Quebec every year was 1,000 ; now it
is 1,660, and the number of vessels arriving at all the ports in Lower Canada
is 2,463. At the time of the union the
tonnage of these vessels was
295,000 tons,
and now in the port of Quebec it is 897,000
tons, and for the whole of Lower Canada
1,041,000 tons. At the time of the union
25,000 sailors arrived heve annually ; now we
have 35,000. In 1839 the revenue
of
Lower Canada was $588 000 ; when
we
enter the Confederacy, although we are not
called upon to pay any of the expenditure
for general purposes, our
revenue will be
$1,446,000, that is to say that
we shall have,
under the Confederation, a revenue three
times as large as it was at the time of the
union ; and instead of having, as we then
had, an excess of expenditure
amounting to
about $80,000, the total expenditure of
Lower Canada, under the
Confederation, will
be about $1,200,000, leaving a surplus of
more than $200,000! If then our debt has
increased we have made most rapid progress, and we have received the full value
for our money. Nor must it be forgotten
that at the time of the union of Upper and
Lower Canada the country had not a single
railway, and now it is traversed
from end to
end by
one of the finest railways on this
continent ; and are long, let us hope in
the interest of our commerce and our
safety, that this iron band will connect the
extreme west with the Atlantic ocean. (Hear, hear.) We entered the union when
the Welland canal had hardly been begun ;
we leave it with one of the most magnificent
canal systems the world has ever seen. And
then the telegraph lines. At the
time of the
union the only telegraph we had was that one
with balls, which so many of us
remember,
and which used to connect the citadel with
the Island of Orleans, and thence communicated with Grosse Isle by a telegraph of
the
same kind ; now an immense network of
telegraph wires places us in daily and
immediate communication with the most
remote districts in the different provinces.
We leave the union with a debt greater
than that with which we entered it,
but we leave it with a most perfect system
of lighthouses, wharves, piers, slides, in fact
with a large number of other public works,
which have mainly contributed to the settlement and the prosperity of the country,
and
which have more than doubled its resources
since the union. The Grand Trunk Railway
alone, for the sixteen millions which it has
cost us, has contributed to increase the
value of our lands by millions and millions
of dollars, by enhancing the value of our
agricultural productions, which are by its
means brought with greater ease to
the
different markets, and has moreover entailed
an expenditure in our midst of more than
seventy millions of dollars for its construction
alone. Yes, Mr. SPEAKER, if we
entered the
union with a debt of four hundred thousand
dollars, and if to-day we leave it with a debt
of thirty millions of dollars, we can at all
events show what we have done with the
money, by the immense extent of territory,
then uncleared, which is now covered with
abundant crops, and which have
served to
keep in the country, not indeed all the children of our farmers, but at least a very
great
number of them, who but for these improvements would have emigrated
en masse
to the
neighboring country. Under the Confederation we shall have the control of our lands,
and
we can settle them so as to retain in our
midst all those of the rising generation of
both origins who too often take to a foreign
land their strong right arms, their energy
and devotion. Our mineral lands, so rich and
so productive, the opening up of which
has
387
hardly
been begun, will also be a source of
enormous revenue to the country, and will
largely contribute to increase the sum of our
population, by keeping in Canada many
men who would have gone in search
of fortune elsewhere, and it inspires
me
with still greater confidence that Providence has been pleased to ioin to His other
blessings conferred upon us, the possession
of mines the richest and perhaps the
most abundant in the world. As
regards
our fisheries, they were hardly opened up at
the time of the union ; and now, although
much more may be done with them, it is.
nevertheless, undeniable that every year they
are more and more developed, and
that they
are destined, at no distant
period, to be a
source of immense revenue to the country.
(Hear, hear.) There are many other points
of view, Mr. SPEAKER, from which
we might
examine the advantages we have derived
from the union of the Canadas, in return
for the sacrifice we have imposed upon ourselves. We might look at the
political
position we occupied at that period. We
should see that we had just come out
of a
terrible crisis, during which blood had been
spilt on battle-fields and
elsewhere ; our Constitution had been suspended, and the whole
country had witnessed scenes such as its
inhabitants, hitherto happy and prosperous,
had never seen before. Now we enjoy
responsible government, one of the most
glorious of England's institutions, and one
that has stood the test of ages.
This great
constitutional guarantee we take with us into
the Confederation, into which we are about
to enter in a state of peace and prosperity,
with happiness in our midst, and
with the
conviction that this peace, this prosperity
and this happiness will be made more lasting
than ever. We enter it with the legitimate
and patriotic aim of placing our country in
a position more worthy of our population
and of greater importance, and meriting
higher consideration from foreign nations.
The hon. member for Hochelaga, not content
with calling up past events, has also
alluded to the constitution of the courts
of law in Lower Canada under the Confederacy. He declared that he did not understand
the meaning of that article of the
resolutions which leaves to the Central Government the appointment of the judges,
whilst by another article it is
provided that the
constitution and maintenance of the courts
was entrusted to the Local Parliament. The
honorable member should have observed that
by the powers conferred on the local governments, Lower Canada retains all her civil
rights, as prescribed by the 17th paragraph of
article 43, as follows :—
The administration of justice, including
the
constitution, maintenance and organization
of the
courts, both of civil and criminal jurisdiction, and
including also the procedure in civil matters.
This is a privilege which has been granted to us
and which we shall retain, because our civil laws
differ from those of the other provinces of
the Confederation. This exception, like many
others, has been expressly made for the protection of us Lower Canadians. It was our
desire, as the representatives of Lower Canda at the Conference, that we should have
under the control of our Local Legislature the
constitution and organization of our courts of justice, both civil and criminal,
so that our
legislature might possess full power over our
courts, and the right to establish or modify
them if it thought expedient. But, on the
other hand, the appointment of the judges of
these courts had to be given, as it has been,
to the Central Government, and the reason of
this provision is at once simple, natural and
just. In the Confederacy we shall have a
Central Parliament and local legislatures.—
Well, I ask any reasonable man, any man of
experience, does he think that, with the ambition which must naturally stimulate men
of
mark and talent to display their powers on
the theatre most worthy of their talents,
these men will consent to enter the local legislatures rather than the Federal Parliament
?
Is it not more likely and more reasonable to
suppose that they would rather appear and
shine on the largest stage, on that in which
they can render the greatest service to their
country, and where the rewards of their services will be the highest? Yes, these men
will prefer to go to the Central Parliament,
and among them there will be doubtless many
of our most distinguished members of the
legal profession. The members of this profession are often accused of going into Parliament
for the purpose of monopolizing the
representation. If this be the case at the present time, is it not to be supposed
that they will
do the same thing under Confederation ?
Were the appointment of the judges left to
the local legislatures, the local governments
would be subjected to a pressure which might
be brought to bear upon them by the first advocate who would attain influence in the
Local
Legislature. To get rid of an inconvenient
member who might have three or four followers, the Local Government would have to
take
388
this troublesome advocate of the second,
third
or fourth order of talent, and place him on
the bench, whilst by leaving these appointments to the Central Government, we are
satisfied that the selection will be made from
men of the highest order of qualifications,
that the external and local pressure will not be
so great, and that the Government will be in a
position to act more freely. It may be remarked, in passing, that in the proposed
Constitution there is an article which provides
that the judges of the courts of Lower Canada shall be appointed from the members
of
the bar of that section. This exception was
only made in favor of Lower Canada, and it
is a substantial guarantee for those who fear
the proposed system. Besides, the honorable
member for Hochelaga, who fancies that he
sees danger in the powers given to the Central
Government, knows by experience, as having
himself been a minister of the Crown, that in
respect of every appointment of a
judge the
Cabinet always consults the ministers for the
section in which the appointment is to be
made, and accepts their choice. The same
practice would necessarily be followed by the
Central Government, who would be forced to
respect it, because behind the ministers from
each section would be found the members from
that section, and behind our ministers for
Lower Canada will be found the sixty-five
members whom we shall have sent to represent and protect our interests in the Federal
Parliament. It is then advantageous, and
there could be no danger in the provision that
the judges should be appointed by the Central
Government ; indeed, it is for our interest,
and the interest of all, that it should be so.
And although it may be looked upon as a
secondary consideration, yet it may as well be
mentioned now, that by leaving the appointment of our judges to the Central Government,
we are the gainers by one hundred
thousand dollars, which will have to be paid
for their services by the central power. This
consideration will perhaps have some weight
with the honorable member for Hochelaga,
who makes such an outcry to alarm the people that we shall be obliged to have recourse
to direct taxation to defray the expenses of
our Local Legislature. Notwithstanding the
advanced hour of the evening, I cannot pass
over in silence another observation made by
the honorable member, and I beg he will accord me his undivided attention
at the present moment. The honorable gentleman has
asked the Government what meaning was to
be attached to the word " marriage," where
it occurred in the Constitution. He
desired
to know whether the Government proposed
to leave to the Central Government the right
of deciding at what age, for example, marriage might be contracted I will now answer
the honorable gentleman as categorically
as possible, for I am anxious to be understood, not only in this House, but also by
all
those who may hereafter read the report of
our proceedings. And first of all I will
prove that civil rights form part of those
which, by article 43 (paragraph 15) of the
resolutions, are guaranteed to Lower Canada.
This paragraph reads as follows :—
15. Property and civil rights, excepting
those
portions thereof assigned to the General Parliament.
Well, amongst these rights are all the
civil laws of Lower Canada, and among
these latter those which relate to marriage ;
now it was of the highest importance
that it should be so under the proposed system, and therefore the members from Lower
Canada at the Conference took great care to
obtain the reservation to the Local Government of this important right, and in consenting
to allow the word " marriage " after the
word "divorce," the delegates have not proposed to take away with one hand from the
Local Legislature what they had reserved to it
by the other. So that the word " marriage,"
placed where it is among the
powers of the
Central Parliament, has not the extended signification which was sought to be given
to it by the
honorable member. With the view
of being
more explicit, I now propose to read how the
word marriage is proposed to be understood :—
The word marriage has been placed in the
draft
of the proposed Constitution to invest the Federal Parliament with the right of declaring
what
marriages shall be held and deemed to be valid
throughout the whole extent of the Confederacy,
without, however, interfering in any particular
with the doctrines or rites of the religious creeds
to which the contracting parties may belong.
This is a point of great importance, and
the
French Canadian members ought to rejoice
to see that their fellow—countrymen in the
Government have not failed in their duty on
a question of so serious a nature. On many
other points many of them will doubtless
claim that we have not thoroughly fufilled
our duty, but as regards the matter in question there can be no difference of opinion,
as
we have all a common rule to guide us ; and
I repeat that they ought to rejoice that their
co-religionists in the Conference have not been
found wanting on this occasion. The whole
389
may be summed up as follows :—The Central
Parliament may decide that any marriage
contracted in Upper Canada, or in any other
of the Confederated Provinces, in accordance
with the laws of the country in which it was
contracted, although that law might be different from ours, should be deemed valid
in
Lower Canada in case the parties should
come to reside there, and vice versa.
MR. ARCHAMBEAULT—I would ask
of the Hon. Solicitor General if a marriage
contracted in the United States, before a magistrate, and not according to canonical
laws,
would be deemed valid in Lower Canada ?
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN—It would
be so, from a civil point of view, if it were contracted in accordance with the laws
of the
state in which it was celebrated.
MR. GEOFFRION—If a marriage contracted in the United States is valid here, as
a matter of course a marriage contracted in
a British colony in conformity with the laws
of the country must be valid ; therefore the
explanation of the Hon. Solicitor General is
inadmissible, or the resolution is useless.
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN—The honorable member for Verchères does not choose
to be convinced ; so I will make no further attempt to convince him. The resolution
in
question signifies just what I have stated.
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN—I beg your
pardon, it means that a marriage contracted
in no matter what part of the Confederacy,
will be valid in Lower Canada, if contracted
according to the laws of the country in which
it takes place ; but also, when a marriage is contracted in any province contrary
to its laws, although in conformity with the laws of another
province, it will not be considered valid.
Let us now examine the question of divorce.
We do not intend either to establish or to
recognize a new right; we do not mean to
admit a thing to which we have constantly refused to assent, but at the Conference
the question arose, which legislature should exercise
the different powers which already exist in the
constitutions of the different provinces. Now,
among these powers which have been already
and requently exercised
de facto, is this
of divorce. As a member of the Conference,
without admitting or creating any new right
in this behalf, and while declaring, as I now
do, that as - Catholics we acknowledge no
power of divorce, I found that we were to
decide in what legislative body the authority
should be lodged which we found in our Constitutlons. After mature consideration,
we
resolved to leave it in the Central Legislature,
thinking thereby to increase the difficulties of
a procedure which is at present so easy. We
thought then, as we still think, that in this
we took the most prudent course. The following illustration will prove this still
more
forcibly. It is known to the House how
zealous a partisan the honorable member for
Brome (Mr. DUNKIN) is of the cause of temperance. Well, we will suppose that the
honorable gentleman were present as a member of a municipal council in which it was
to
be decided whether all the taverns in a very
populous part of the parish, which could not
be suppressed, should be banished to a remote
corner of the parish, where they would no
longer be a temptation and a stumbling-block;
would he not vote for such a measure ?
Would he not send them to a place where
they would be least accessible to the population, and would he not think he had done
a
meritorious act, an act worthy of a good
friend of the temperance cause? Just so
in a question of divorce; the case is exactly
analogous. We found this power existing
in the constitutions of the different provinces, and not being able to get rid of
it,
we wished to banish it as far from us as possible. One thing it would be vain to deny,
namely, that although we, as Catholics, do not
admit the liberty of divorce, although we hold
the marriage bond to be indissoluble, yet there
are cases in which we both admit and require
the annulling of the marriage tie—in cases,
for instance, where a marriage has been contracted within the prohibited degrees without
the necessary dispensations. An instance of
this occurred very recently. A few months
since, an individual belonging to my county,
who had married a young girl of a neighboring
parish, without being aware at the timc of his
marriage of the relationship which existed
between him and his wife, found out several
months afterwards that they were related in
such a degree that they required a dispensation from the bishop. That dispensation
had
not been obtained. He spoke of it to his wife,
who refused to apply for a dispensation, as a
step towards the legal celebration of their
marriage. It became necessary, therefore, to
have the marriage annulled. The affair was
brought before the Ecclesiastical Court, and,
after a minute investigation, the diocesan
390
bishop gave judgment, declaring the marriage
null in a canonical sense. Regarded in a civil
point of view, the marriage was still valid
until it should have been declared null by a
civil tribunal. It became necessary, therefore, to carry the cause before the Superior
Court, and my honorable friend, the member
for Beauce, who took the case in hand with
his usual zeal and legal address, obtained from
the court, after a suitable inquiry, a judgment
declaring the marriage null in a civil sense,
and ordering that it should be registered as
such in all places where it should be needful.
If this aflair had occurred in Upper Canada,
what recourse would the parties have had?
The parties being Catholics, the case would
have been brought before the bishop, who
would also have declared the marriage null
after suitable inquiry; but the cause would
not have had the same conclusion in the civil
court, particularly had it depended on certain
impediments which have force in Lower Canada, but none in Upper Canada. It would
have become necessary to go to Parliament to
pray for an act, which, in a Catholic point of
view, would be a mere decree of separation,
but which the Parliament would have termed
an act of divorce. This power to grant a
separation is therefore necessarily vested in
the Parliament, by whatever name such separation may be designated, and we are not
to
be reproached for the interpretation which
others may give to such name, different from
that which we assign to it. I thought it
right to make myself understood on this
point, because I do not choose that people
should be able to say we are afraid of explaining our position with regard to the
question
of divorce and marriage, and I believe that I
have shown that our position is consistent
with our religious laws and our principles as
Catholics. I regret that I have dwelt so long
on the matters touched upon by the honorable
member for Hochelaga; but after his speech,
and considering the position he assumed, he
must have expected an answer. And, having done with him, I come to the honorable
member for Lotbiniere (Mr. JOLY). That
honorable member has endeavored to prove
that all confederations die of consumption,
and has cited, in support of his argument, the
political condition of the Spanish republics of
South America. Why did he say nothing of
the Germanic Confederation ? he had mentioned that, he would have had to confess that
it had proved a success. He would have said
also that it is a monarchical confederation
consisting of thirty-one states, the chiefs of
which are almost all kings, princes, or electors.
There are not more than four or five states
which are not monarchical, and, nevertheless,
that confederation works well.
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN—Yes, but
they have done what we are now about to do.
In order to hold their own among the great powers, and not to be at the mercy of the
first
who might choose to assail their rights, they
have united their strength because they conceived that " union is strength." When
the
honorable member for Lotbiniere was talking
about the weakness inherent in confederations, he ought to have recollected late events
in Italy, as they happened a few years ago.
He should have calle to mind the conquests
of Garibaldi, and reflected that if he had succeeded in overcoming a number of petty
states
and even the kingdom of Naples for the benofit of the king of Sardinia, it was because
the
Italian States, being divided as he found
them, were too weak to resist an invasion, and
that, had they been confederated, neither Garibaldi nor Victor Emmanuel would ever
have
succeeded in getting the upper hand of them.
And what happened when the little states of
Italy were banded together with Piedmont ?
This happened—when Garibaldi aimed at
making conquests on his own account, he soon
found out that the small states no longer existed, and that a large state had been
formed
out of their fragments, the consequence of
which was that he was beaten at Aspramonte.
The honorable member says that our connection
with the Mother Country, under the Confederation, would be one of paper, and that
the Upper Canadians would detest the Lower Canadians.
MR. GEOFFRION—He did not say that
such things would be, but that such might be
the effect of Confederation.
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN— Why
should such be the effect of Confederation ?
No questions will be decided in the Federal
Parliament but such as relate to general matters. Local matters will not be treated
of,
nor questions of race, of religion, or of institutions peculiar to the provinces,
and
consequently there can be no collision of
opinions on such questions. Such a fear,
therefore, is quite unfounded. The honorable
member says, moreover, that the Confederation would lead rather to divide than to
unite
us, that civil war would be the result, and that
the Upper Canadians would rather be annexed
to the United States than subjected to Lower
391
Canadian rule. For my part, I believe no
such thing. I believe that the Upper Canadians are too loyal to wish to be annexed
to
the United States. They are quite disposed
to trade with their neighbors, to keep up a
good understanding with them, but they do
not wish to be annexed. The honorable
member for Lotbinière, getting over his fears
and predictions and speaking of the sixty-five
members from Lower Canada, put the folfollowing question—" Suppose the population
in
Lower Canada should in ten years increase
thirty-four per cent., while that of the other
provinces increases only thirty per cent.,
would it not be unjust to Lower Canada that
the number of its representatives should
remain the same, should still be sixty-five,
while that of the other provinces will be increased ; while in any case the number
of representatives from the other provinces is not
to be diminished unless their population in
should diminish five per cent ?" This point
is very important, but we must observe that
whatever the increase of the population in
the other provinces, the part from Lower
Canada is fixed and known. Thus, for
instance, if the population of Upper Canada should increase more than that of
Lower Canada, the latter will always have
sixty-five members, the other provinces receiving such increased number of representatives
as their increased population
would entitle them to. But the resolutions
do not prevent Lower Canada from having
more than sixty-five representatives, if its
population' should increase faster than that of
the other provinces. The French translation
of these resolutions is erroneous, for it says
that "for the purpose of determining the
number of representatives from each province
at the end of every decennial census, Lower
Canada shall never have either more or less
than sixty-five representatives," whereas the
English version of the resolutions, which is
the official version, says: " Lower Canada
shall always be assigned sixty-five members."
This does not mean that Lower Canada can
never have more than sixty-five members, but
that it can not have less than sixty-five members. That is, I think, a categorical
answer
to the honorable member's objection. If the
honorable member for Lotbiniere were here, I
would answer him on other points; but 1 will
not attack him as he last night attacked the
Honorable Attorney General. The honorable
member compared the conduct of the Honorable Attorney General, in moving the scheme
of Confederation , to that of a man who, pre
siding over a savings bank in which every one
came to deposit his savings, having confidence
in his honesty, should some fine day turn defaulter, betray their confidence and ruin
them. He said that the honesty of the Honorable Attorney General for Lower Canada
had yielded to the temptation of honors, titles
and places, and that he had forgotten all his
obligations and duties and sold his fellow citizens. I shall not retort on the honorable
member, but I shall take upon me to continue
the comparison made by him and tell him
that the Honorable Attorney General has in
fact opened a saving bank and has invited
every one to deposit in it his title deeds and
his savings. Accordingly we find one day the
seigniors and the
censitaires coming and depositing in his keeping their title deeds, their
lands and all they have. These the Honorable Attorney General takes and deposits in
his bank, an when he is called upon to restore them, when he is required to account
for them, he pays as never man paid before
him; to the
censitaires, instead of their title
deeds burthened with mortgages,
lods et ventes,
corvées and all sorts of services and duties, he
restores their lands free from all burthens;
while to the seigniors he tenders the full
value of their seigniorial rights; and if this
day there are seigniors holding a hundred
thousand acres of land in full right of property, which they can safely estimate as
worth
eight dollars per acre, they may thank the
Honorable the Attorney General for Lower
Canada for it. The suitors in our courts
come next; they were oppressed with enormous costs, which amounted almost to a denial
of justice; they went and deposited their
briefs, declarations and pleas in the Honorable Attorney General's savings bank, and
he
returned them, giving them at the same time
judicial decentralisation and diminished costs
of suit. Thus it is that he has earned the respect and gratitude of his fellow citizens.'
It is
the same as regards the inhabitants of the
townships; in place of their ambiguous civil law,
he gave them a civil law applying to the whole
of Lower Canada, the townships as well as
the seigniories; and all are now unanimous in
expressions of gratitude towards the Hon. Atty.
General for extricating them from the judicial
chaos in which they were involved. Pleaders,
advocates, in fact the whole country, deposited their complaints in the Hon. Atty.
General's
hands, and at the end of five years he has
given them a civil code which will do honor to
Lower Canada, honor to the three distinguish
ed Codification Commissioners selected by the
392
Hon. Atty. General, whose name it will transmit to posterity. Yes, his name is attached
to that work, and the attacks of the honorable
member for Lotbiniere will hardly prevent
that name from going down to our descendants surrounded with the respect of all those
who know the services he has rendered to his
country. But the Hon. Attorney General
for Lower Canada was not satisfied with these
services. In the midst of a terrible crisis his
country confided to him all its interests, all
its rights, all its institutions, its nationality,
its religion, in a word everything it held most
dear. The Hon. Attorney General received
the whole trust into his safe and faithful keeping, and when called upon to render
an account, he exhibited all these interests, rights,
institutions, our nationality and religion. in
fact everything that the people held dear, and
restored them guaranteed, protected and surrounded by every safeguard, in the Confederation
of the British North American Provinces. He has been a faithful banker, and has
not betrayed the trust reposed in him, he has
honestly paid his debt; rich and poor, seigniors
and censitaires, advocates and pleaders, all
have received their due, and the banker is
blessed from one end of the province to the
other. The honorable member says that the
Hon. Attorney General will have his reward.
He is right; my honorable colleague will have
his reward—his day will come as did that of
the late Sir LOUIS HYPOLITE LAFONTAINE.
When that eminent citizen held the position
occupied to-day by the Hon. Attorney General,
the opposition heaped upon him the same reproaches, the same insults that are now
offered
to my honorable friend. He was accused of
being a traitor to his country ; it was broadly
asserted that he was selling his fellow-citizens,
and that he was the enemy of his race.
Nevertheless, that defender of the rights and
institutions of Lower Canada had but one
ambition, namely, to secure for his fellow-
countrymen the splendid position they have
ever since occupied. He let the disaffected
continue to assail him, and before descending
into the tomb, he had the happiness of seeing
his patriotic efforts and the purity and nobleness of his intentions acknowledged;
and when
his mortal remains were carried to their last
resting place, all classes of his fellow-citizens
were eager in doing honor to that great man,
and all united in blessing the memory of one
who was no longer accused of being a traitor,
but whose name was universally admitted to
be deserving of a place among the very highest
in parliamentary history. It will be the same
as regards the present Hon. Attorney General
for Lower Canada. He will have his reward;
his day will come, not in the sense of the
honorable member for Lotbiniere, who makes
use of the expression as a menace, but by retaining that confidence of his fellow-citizens
which appears so completely incomprehensible
to the honorable member for otbiniere.
That he should enjoy the confidence of his
fellow-citizens appears to me a thing perfectly
natural, and not by any means difficult to
understand. During his whole life, like Sir
LOUIS HYPOLITE LAFONTAINE the present
Honorable Attorney General for Lower Canada
has devoted himself to protecting and promoting the material and religious interests
of his fellow—countrymen, and he has now
crowned his gigantic labors by the important
share he has had in the framing of the new
Constitution, which is destined to govern one
of the greatest empires in the world, a Constitution beneath which all races and all
religions will find protection and respect. He
will have his reward, and like his predecessor,
his name will go down to posterity as one of
the greatest benefactors of his country. I
regret, Mr. SPEAKER, having spoken at such
great length, but the importance of the question must be my excuse for having, perhaps,
wearied the House. After the long speeches
delivered by the honorable member for Hochelaga and the honorable member for Lotbiniere,
it was impossible for me to curtail my remarks, when I had to refute and destroy all
the hazardous assertions of the two honorable
members. I think I have said enough to
show that the honorable member for Hochelaga made a false prediction when he said
that
the day on which Confederation was accomplished would be an evil day for Lower Canada.
No, Mr. SPEAKER, the Confederation, I am perfectly convinced, will afford the best
possible
guarantee for our institutions, our language
and all that we hold dearest in the world; under its protection we shall be strong
against
the common enemy, we shall advance rapidly
in the way of prosperity, and when we withdraw from the arena it will be with the
consolation of leaving to our descendants an inheritance worthy of a free peeple.
(Cheers)
MR. JOLY—While the Honorable Solicitor General was speaking, I twice asked permission to explain
what I had stated, because
I thought he had not understood me; but
from the manner in which he has acted
towards me, twice refusing me the opportunity
of explaining myself, I am now convinced that
be perfectly well understood what I wished to
393
say, and that he merely pretended not to
understand it. I am not willing to bear the
onus of the charge he has brought against me.
I shall take the opportunity of setting him
right, and of explaimng what I said yesterday.
I am quite ready to bear accusations of imprudence or ignorance, butI will not stand
a charge
of cowardice, and that is the accusation I find
in the
Journal de Québec of this day. The honorable member charges me with having appealed to the religious
prejudices of the
French-Canadians. I did not appeal to their
religious prejudices; I made an appeal to
their national prejudices. I look upon this
measure of Confederation as fatal to the interests of Lower Canada, and I consider
that
that was the only means of breaking the bands
by which the French-Canadians are bound,
and of arousing them while it is yet time;
that is what I have done and ever will do.
ButI am not the man to appeal to the national
prejudices of the English after my appeal to
the French-Canadians, as the honorable member has stated. I shall now state the manner
in which I explained the passage from Lord
DURHAM's report. I said it was impossible
that both races should long continue to live
in peace; that some day or other the two
nationalities would come into collision; that
judgment would be given by the Federal
Parliament, in which the English were to
have the majority, and from which the
French-Canadians could not hope to obtain
justice. I did not state that the French-
Canadians would act unjustly towards the
British; but I said that the latter might
complain, and that the Federal Legislature
would be called upon to decide as to whether
injustice had been done; and that its sympathies must be distrusted. I added that
the
Federal Parliament being composed of a majority of English members, would be inclined
to give ear to the English of Lower Canada
rather than to the French-Canadians. I then
noted Lord DURHAM'S report to prove that
English-Canadians would never willingly submit to the majority in Lower Canada. And
in citing the two extracts from Lord DURHAM's report, I first read them in English
and then translated them into French. How
can it be asserted, therefore, that I made use
of the English language in order to make an
appeal to the prejudices of the Anglo-Canadins? The charge is absurd. Far from
desiring to influence them in that sense, I
read the passages with hesitation, because I
felt that the British ought to blush for them.
There was no need of quoting the passages
referred to in order to tell the English Of
Lower Canada what their sentiments were; I
cited them in order to make them known to
the French Canadians. With regard to the
second passage, I could not cite it in order to
attract the sympathies of the British, since it
was an extract against them. How can it be
shown that I cited that passage for the purpose of exciting the national prejudices
of
the English ? I appealed neither to the religious prejudices of the Canadians, nor
to
the national prejudices of the English.
HON. MR. CAUCHON—I did not say
that the honorable member for Lotbiniere was
a coward ; I found fault with him for treating
the question incompletely and putting it in a
wrong light. With reference to the quotations,
the honorable member did not translate into
French that part in which it was stated that
the English will never submit to a French
Canadian majority.
MR. JOLY—I translated it word for word.
HON. MR. CAUCHON—I did not hear it,
but I am quite willing to take his word. The
honorable member has said that he wished to
excite the national rejudices of the French-
Canadians, but that is quite as bad as exciting
religious prejudices. All I said was, that he
was wrong in exciting the prejudices of the
one race against the other.
HON. SOL. GEN. LANGEVIN—After the
explanations given by the honorable member
for Lotbiniere, and though he has stated in a
moment of excitement that he felt convinced
that when I made an accusation against him
I knew it was not well founded, I must conclude that I was mistaken, and that be translated
his quotations from Lord DURHAM's
report unknown to me. I take his word in
the matter, but I am quite sure that if he had
not been excited at the moment, he would not
have charged me with wilfully misrepresenting him.
MR. JOLY—I am the more clear in my
recollection of having translated the passage
from Lord DURHAM's report, from the fact
that I had great difliculty in translating it, as
the House will remember.
MR. DUNKIN—And in fact your translation was not quite correct, particularly as to
the word British.
MR. JOLY—But since the Honorable Solicitor General has given explanations and has
withdrawn what he had said against me, I
feel it to to be my duty to state that I regret to
have expressed myself so strongly with reference to him .
The debate was then adjourned.
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