128 PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 1873
THURSDAY, May 1st.
130
PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 1873
MR. HOWATT.— Mr. Chairman,
there are two Resolutions now before
this hon. Committee, and I may table
a third when the proper time arrives.
The matter is important, and time
should be taken to consider what we
are doing. I have listened attentively
to the arguments on both sides, and
can only notice that one side blames
the other for the difficulties which
have come upon the country; holding it up as a misfortune that such
and such should have occurred. If,
however, as so many seem to argue,
Confederation is to be such a benefit
to us, then I cannot see why hon.
gentlemen should not be rejoicing, instead of mourning over our position.
If we are going into a partnership so
desirable. there is surely no cause for
complaining. But in so far as I can
see, there has been nothing, as yet,
brought forward to show that we are
going to receive an equivalent for what
we are going to give up. Suppose
we do go in, it is clear that a large
amount will soon be required for local
purposes, which can only be had by
local taxation. Can the general Government exist without a Revenue?
We know it cannot. If, as some hon.
gentleman has said, the Revenue of the
Dominion is increasing, so also is taxation, and of necessity they must be receiving
more from the Provinces than
they return. Whatever the cost of the
Dominion Government may be, or for
whatever purpose we will be required,
if we go in, in all time coming to pay
the one-fortieth part of it. I contend,
therefore, that a little more time
should be taken before we rush into
an arrangement so important. The
probability is, that by delaying the
matter a while longer, we will get a
little more money, although for my
part I refuse to enter in on any terms.
If, however, hon. members are determined to unite on some terms, they
will do well to look carefully into the
amount proposed to be allowed by the
Dominion for our Railway. It is set
at three and one quarter millions of
dollars. But supposing it should, as I
believe it will, cost more than that
amount, we should have to make up
the difference. On this matter there
should be a distinct understanding, so
there may be no difficulty about it in
the future. I am only speaking in case
Confederation should be decided upon,
so that if we do go in, the arrange
ment should be such that we would
have fair play, and a fair race with the
other Provinces. It will be one of
those bargains which a dissolution
cannot break. It will be binding for
all time to come. I cannot, therefore,
in view of the opinions expressed on
both sides, but express my belief that
the course pointed out by the Leader
of the Government is the proper one
to pursue. Hon. members on the
opposite side speak as if we were going up on a begging excursion. For
my part I look at the whole question
from first to last as a begging one.
The late Government assumed the
position of paupers from the first.
They have placed us in such a position
that we cannot now say we will go in
of our own free choice. Make the
best you can of it, you will go in as
paupers. I believe in a few years,
with care and prudence, we would
surmount our difficulties. In the other
Provinces they are taxed $40 on every
£1000 of property they own. The
Dominion Government have got themselves in that position, that they cannot help themselves.
In the Dominion new Railways will be springing up in all directions, and these will
lead to increased taxation. In addition to our burden, in Confederation,
we will have to shoulder our proportion of the burden of Canada also, yet
I approve more of the course proposed
to be taken by his honor the Leader
of the Government than that proposed
1873 PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 131
by the hon. member the Leader of the
Opposition.
Hon. B. DAVIES—Sir, they purpose sending up a new delegation,
because they say the Laird-Haythorne
Terms are not sufficient. Now I think
it has been clearly shown that the
reverse is the fact. The Dominion
takes the Railway off our hands, and in
that matter we are relieved by these
Terms, from the duty of making provision for the working of our road. If
we do not go into Confederation, we
have to make immediate provision for
the Railway which cannot be less than
$200,000. I have not heard one reason advanced to justify the basis Of the
resolution before this hon. committee.
His honor the Leader of the Government has not set forth any cause for
leading the committee to suppose that
any additional allowance will be conceded over those already brought
down. When they go to the Ministry
at Ottawa,with demands for the Lighthouse on Summerside wharf, and other
similar works, they will be given to
understand that the general Government does not, and will not, grant.
allowances to any Provinces for such
works. But I believe. Sir, that the
hon. member must have some other
object in view in going up. We have
a right to know, Mr. Chairman, if the
Government are going to accept the
basis of $45 ahead, and to allow the
general Government to have the Railway as Dominica property? Or do
the members on the Government side
of this committee concur in agreeing to
take the road and work it ourselves?
If so it will give the Government the
power of expending the interest Of
nearly $5,000,000. To me it does
appear as if the intention of the Government is to secure all the patronage
they can for their friends, and for that
purpose may agree to keep the Railroadas a local work. If such a line
of policy should be adopted, it will, I
am persuaded, be attended with bad
results to the general interests of the
Island. It would. no doubt, give our
Government here a large amount of
money to expend annually, but in the
end, the road, as a public work, will
become a failure. It will annually
depreciate in value, and becomes burden upon the Colony. Lord Dufferin's
telegraphic despatch distinctly states
that better Terms will not be agreed
to. I believe the Government are
perfectly satisfied the Terms are just
and honorable. No one here ever
supposed the Canadian Government
intended to take the road off our hands.
As matters now stand we will have
the Railway with all its advantages, and yet it will not cost us anything, as the
Terms brought down
provides that it shall belong to the
General Government. They have
not shown that the Terms offered are
unfair, or that the basis upon which
they rest is money. I know the hon.
member, the Leader of the Government, is not a man who would go up
to beg. But he can go up there and
make proposals without doing that.
I am inclined to think that he wishes
to take the Railway off the hands of
the Dominion Government. At one
time, I believe, the hon. member offer
ed to take the road and work it himself. And as there would be nothing
unconstitutional in his asking to have
it retained as a local work, this committee should be very careful and not
hastily bind itself to support such
Terms as the delegates may thus agree
to. For if the hon. member and the
delegates who may go up should
make an arrangement of that kind, it
would entail eternal ruin upon this
Island. It would give them an interest at first in what they would make
on the first cost of the road. But at
present the work is suspended, because
the Debentures are worthless in the
money market at home, but the moment we accept the Terms. they will
132
PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 1878
sell at par. But, if it is to become
local works they will be worth little or
nothing. They would not yield £80
on the £100, and if so we would never
see a branch line extended to Souris
or Tinguish. Indeed, I doubt if the
road would extend further west than
Summerside. I feel, therefore, that
I have a right to ask if such is their
intentions? This side of the House
never attempted to deviate from any
promise made to the eastern members,
nor can I see that they had any just
reason for leaving us when we acted
in such good faith toward them. If
the hon. member could show any
sound reason why we should support
the Resolution, we might. perhaps be
induced to do so. The basis of the
Resolution is money. It is drawn up
also in a manner which will prevent
hon. "members on this side from supporting it. For my part I do not feel
that I can vote for it, or that my duty
towards my constituents requires that
I should. The amendment is much
more correctly drawn up, and as it
more fully meets with my approval, it
shall have my support.
The House then resumed. Progress was reported, when House adjourned for one hour.
House in committee of the whole to
resume consideration of despatches on
Confederation.
Hon. Mr. LEFURGY.—A good deal
has been said by the hon. members on
both sides of the House in reference
to the proposed delegation to Canada,
and I think the sooner we come to
an understanding on the matter,
the better, as there is no time to
lose. both sides of the House seem
pretty well satisfied that Confederation
must be brought about, and I think
we should confine ourselves to the
question as to whether a delegation
should be appointed or not. For my
own part I could not vote for the present Terms without having made an
effort to do better, but if we satisfactorily ascertain that better Terms cannot be
procured, I will be willing to
accept the offer we now have. Viewing the matter in this way, I think it
will be almost useless for the Opposition to oppose the sending of another
delegation. The Government is perfectly agreed in reference to Confederation, that
it shall be carried. If
better Terms can be procured, it will
be all the better for the Opposition and
their constituents, and they cannot find
fault. We can lose nothing by following the course we propose. Something has been
said about a letter sent
to Mr. Lawson, of the
Summerside
Progress, by Mr. P. Sinclair. It was
brought to my notice that a report was
in circulation that somebody had picked
up the letter and sent it to me, and
that I then forwarded it to the Editor
of the
Argus, Now, I denied this in
presence of Mr. Lawson, and said that
I never saw the letter, with which
statement he was perfectly satisfied.
If it had been brought tome, I would
have recommended its being sent back
to the owner, but I knew nothing
about it. Messrs. Pope, Howlan and
myself, have been blamed for bringing
all this trouble upon the country, by
introducing the Railway Bill; but I think that instead of being censured for our conduct,
we deserve a considerable amount of credit. The hon. Leader of the Opposition was
elected as an anti-Confederate, but when he found himself in a critical situation,
and unable to carry on the business of the country, he turned round, and sought Terms
at Ottawa for admission into the Dominion. He obtained, in his own opinion, as good
Terms as could be got, and now boastfully states that to seek better Terms would be
perfect nonsense. it is much better to ask for better Terms before going into Confederation
than afterwards,
l873 PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 133
for I believe we shall soon enough find
out that the amount we receive from
Canada will prove insufficient for our
wants. Out of little things great
things grow. If we obtain only a few
trifling amounts, to which we are entitled, they will, in the aggregate amount
to something, and will prevent the
necessity of levying so much by local
taxation. The hon. junior member
for Belfast has pictured the Dominion
as one of the greatest and grandest
countries in the world. I looked upon
a union with that country, years ago,
inthe same light in which he now
sees it, and, therefore, I was a few
years ahead of him. If the Opposition join with the Government in supporting the Resolution,
I would not
object to the appointment of one of
their number on the delegation. We
have a right to expect the assistance
ol the Opposition in a matter which so
deeply affects the best interests of the
country, and I hope we shall have it.
MR. STEWART.— I acknowledge
there is a good deal of truth in the
remark of the hon. member for Summerside, that a good deal of time is
lost by hon. members of this House, in
making long speeches, instead of narrowing them down and furthering the
real business of the country. The
subject has been thoroughly discussed,
and the only question for us now to
consider is whether the proposed delegationis necessary or not. For my
own part I do not intend to interfere
with the legitimate business of this
House by offering a factions opposition
to the course, which, it is evident, the
Government intend to pursue in this
matter; because it I did so, I would
not be serving the interests of my constitnents, nor acting in a manner calculated
to forwardthe real interests of
the country. It was the duty of the
Government, when the Opposition
showed the Terms before us to be just,
equitable and liberal to this Colony,
to state in plain terms what they in
tend to ask in addition to the present
offer, and also upon what grounds they
intend to base their arguments in favor
of additional concessions. If we give
them full liberty to change the whole
constitution of the country without
knowing what claims they intend to
make, we may place ourselves in a
false position before our constituents
and before the world, and, therefore,
would pursue a very unwise course, in
so doing. If the Government feel
bound to send another delegation,
the sooner they do so the better,
as the business of the country demands an immediate settlement of
this question of Confederation. If $25,000 in gold be withdrawn from our
Banks for the purpose of paying off
the amount we borrowed from a New
Brunswick Bank, it may be the means
of injuring our trade to a certain extent by hampering the Banks. I heard
it reported that we were offered a renewal of half the amount of that note;
but I understand it to mean another
delegation to Canada. We have been
assured that if additional concessions
cannot be obtained, the Government
will accept the present Terms. I am
not satisfied with the statements made
by his honor the Leader of the Government in reference to the claims he
intends to make from the Dominion
Government. If hon. members on the
other side of the House can produce
figures to substantiate their position,
and to show how this Colony would
lose by accepting the Terms now offered, they should do so. I have figured
up the expenditure ofthis Island under
Confederation, and compared it with
the present offer, and I make outa
surplus of Revenue of $13,000. We
have no right to make unjust demands
from the Dominion, as the Terms we
procure must be submitted to their
Legislature, and receive its approval,
before a union takes place. As we
are cut off from the other Provinces
six months in the year, our mail ser
134
PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 1873
vice, which is, at present, poorly sustained, should be taken into consideration,
and ample provision made for regular communication with the Dominion, during all seasons
of the year. I believe the Canadian Government will attend to this matte, as our interests
will be theirs, and theirs ours. I hope the hon. Leader of the Government will be
able to show that he can obtain better Terms, and also how it can be done. I shall
bow to superior wisdom in reference to this matter, and do not believe the people
will blame me fore the manner in which I have acted, and the part I have taken. I
throw the cloak of charity over the errors of public men ; they, no doubt, sometimes
do what is wrong, but if a man is true to his fellow men in private life, he can be
relied upon in public life. I cannot see what good is accomplished by the violent
attacks of one hon. member of this House upon another, in reference to old matters
which should be allowed to die out, and, therefore, hope such uncalled for debates
will cease. I cannot vote for the resolution brought down by the hon. Leader of the
Government, because I believe we shall receive a sufficient Revenue, under the Terms
now offered by the Dominion, to meet all necessary expenditure, and because I believe
the sending up another delegation would only cause unnecessary delay, without reaping
a corresponding benefit. The sooner Confederation is an accomplished fact, the better
for the trade and prospects of the country. I am aware that the Government can carry
the resolution. If they are determined to do so, it would not be wise or prudent for
the Opposition to cause unnecessary delay in the matter. They must take the responsibility
of their action, and we, of the Opposition, must do the same in reference to ours.
I oppose them honestly, because I believe we now have Terms which we should at once
accept for the best in
terests of the country, and because
delays are dangerous. I ran my election on the present Terms, and found that the people
were satisfied with them. The hon. Leader of the Government has not shown that they
will be insufficient for the wants of the country. I confess that I am a mere novice
in reference to the financial position of the Colony, while he is a man who understands
our position, and, as a native of the Island, his interests are interwoven with its
best interests. I cannot say that he adopts his present course from false motives,
as it is often difficult to ascertain the real cause of individual action. Throwing
aside all these matters, however, I am bound to support the adopting of the present
Terms, and cannot vote for the resolution, because I believe we cannot get better
Terms.
Hon. LEADER OF THE GOVERNMENT.—The speech we have just heard from the hon. junior member for New London, was. in
my opinion, the best delivered on that side of the House this Session. We had a long
speech from the Hon. Leader of the Opposition, atempting, with very bad grace, to
throw ridicule on the resolution, on account of a grammatical error which it contains.
When a man's attention is very much engrossed with a variety of matters which cause
him to lose a large part of his rest, by keeping him up late every night, errors of
that kind will occasionally occur. I do not think the hon. member has at all distinguished
himself, or made himself appear more learned, by doing as he has done with reference
to this small affair. If the Government cannot obtain better Terms, the Opposition
will occupy the better position ; if better Terms are procured, the Opposition will
be in a worse position. For my own part, I am satisfied we shall obtain better Terms,
and have made up my mind to send another delegation to
1873 PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 135
Ottawa, for that purpose. The hon. junior member for New London said that he had made
a calculation, and found that under the present Terms we should have a surplus of
Revenue over expenditure of $18,000 annually. Even admitting that we should have a
surplus this year, we know that our wants have increased at a greater rate than our
Revenue, and that we should probably, in the second year, get $13,000 behind hand.
At the end of ten years we would, in all probability be $13,000 in debt, instead of
having a surplus. The hon. junior member for Belfast puts down $54,000 as the annual
expenditure of the Board of Works. Now the fact is, that $61,000 have been expended
by that Board during the present year alone, although some trifling part of the words
contracted for are not yet finished. We know that of our bridges are built of hemlock
timber, and that many of them are getting decayed and are tumbling down. In the course
of very few years they will all require to be rebuilt. Taking the hon. member's estimate,
we find that already there are $7000 expended this year beyond the amount he sets
down, and we may, therefore, come to the conclusion that we should require at least
$54,000 as the annual expenditure of the Board of Works, we shall find that at the
end of ten years we should be $200,000 behind, and would have to resort to local taxation
to meet it. Will any hon. member tell me that $50,000 is sufficient for the building
of wharves and bridges, in view of the fact that the price of labor and lumber is
advancing ? Stone must, eventually, take the place of wood in the construction of
bridges, and its cost will, of course, be many times greater. I do not mean to say
that we would, under the present Terms, be actually $70,000 a year behind the expenditure
;
but if we maintain both branches of
the Legislature, as we now do, and
expend in the same proportion of increase, annually, on public works, we
would find that our expenditure would
exceed the Revenue to that extent.
But retrenchment might be made in
several items of our present expenditure ; for instance, one branch of the
legislature would then be quite sufficient, and the number of members
composing the House of Assembly
might be materially lessened. So also
in the different public offices. But if
the expenditure of the Dashaways is
to be taken as a standard, the Revenue, under Confederation, would be a
long way behind the outlay. We require the best possible Terms that can
be obtained, to meet the peculiarities
of our position, and to meet our requirements for some years to come.
If a unanimous vote were carried in
this House, the position of the delegates would be greatly strengthened,
and it would hasten the consummation
of the union so much desired by the
Opposition. In all sincerity, my sole
object is to obtain Confederation on
the most favorable Terms, so that we
may not, after the union is completed,
be discontented, and forced to resort to
immediate local taxation to relieve the
pressing wants of the country. Under
Contederation, we shall find that our
expenditure will increase year after
year, while our Revenue will remain
stationary. If we can obtain $5000
for one Lighthouse, and so much more
for another and another, we are fairly
and honestly entitled to it, and should
endeavor to obtain it. If the Dominion Government have under estimated the cost of
the great public
works they are about to undertake, we
are entitled to receive the one-fortieth
part of the extra cost; but, according
to the present Terms we should not
receive one cent of that sum. We
shall receive our share of the grants for '
the deepening of certain harbors, in
136
PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 1873
proportion to the sums expended in the
wer Provincess for a similar purpose.
It should be stipulated in the Terms
we receive, that we shall receive our
fair proportion of all sums expended
in the Dominion for public works. I
would be very sorry to make any
claim on the Dominion for what is
unjust and unfair. My desire is to
see Confederation brought about on
fair and equitable Terms, so that we
may never have to regret the step we
are about to take. My interests are
bound up with those of this country,
and I feel that in forwarding its best
interests I am forwarding my own as
well as those of the people generally.
I would be sorry to return from this
delegation without having accomplished something to improve our position ;
but I feel confident that better Terms
will be conceded us. In making his
calculation, I do not believe the hon.
Leader of the Opposition took into
account the Excise Duties of the Dominion at all. Those duties are not
included in his figures giving nine or
ten per cent as the Dominion tariff.
We know that their Excise Duties are
very heavy, and helps very largely in
making up a Revenue. There would
be no difficulty in raising money
enough, if we remain out of the Dominion, to pay our way and meet all
demands upon us, if we could but get
our securities in a good sound financial
position. I would not be afraid to
face even the latter difficulty, but
there is no need to run the risk of placing our Banking institutions and the country
generally, in a bad financial position; if reasonable Terms are offered
by Canada, it will be to our interest,
for many reasons, to accept them. I
should like to see our Railway a success, and to see our people avail themselves of
its advantages. Our people
should not be placed in a worse position than those of the other Provinces,
and, therefore, we should receive more
iberal Terms than those now offered.
The Government are quite prepared
to accept Confederation at the earliest
possible period, on fair and equitable
Terms, as they believe it would con.
duce to the interests of the people of
this Colony, although many of their
supporters believed at first that our
resources would be quite sufficient to
meet all demands, and would rather
remain out of Confederation. As they
did not know the state of our public
securities in the London money market, one could scarcely wonder that
they were opposed to Confederation
till they ascertained our true position.
But they are now prepared to accept
fair and reasonable Terms, without
loss of time. If the Opposition do not
feel themselves in a position to support
the resolution, I hope they will not
give it a factions opposition.
MR. D. LAIRD.—The hon. Leader
of the Government wishes to carry his
resolution without delay or opposition.
Times have changed with him, Sir,
for it is only one year ago, since he
carried out his factions opposition, to
every act of the late Government, one
month longer than was at all necessary or usual. I can assure him that
although we do not offer a factions
opposition, we claim the right, and
will speak fully and freely on this
question. This is an important period
in the history of this Colony, and we
intend to enjoy the privilege of expressing our opinion on a matter so
deeply affecting our interests. Has it
come to this, that those who have been
pronounced imbeciles by the present
Government and their supporters,
should now be asked to allow their
resolution to pass without further opposition? Is this side, or even a
majority of this hon. House, going to
authorize the hon. Leader of the Government to do as he pleases? No
matter what Terms the new delegates
may agree to, the resolution states
that we have full confidence in them,
1873 PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 137
and will ratify the Terms. That is a
pledge which we would not be justified
in giving any delegation, and the hon.
Leader of the Government has a great
deal of assurance to come down to this
House and ask us to pass such a resolution. If the delegates take this
document with them to Ottawa, the
members of the Dominion Government
will surely think we are an egregious
set of fools in promising to ratify whatever Terms those hon. members may
happen to bring down. It is beneath
the dignity of this hon. House to give
pledges in regard to the future; our
business merely requires a present
opinion on the matters brought before
us. The hon. Leader of the Government says that the Dominion Revenue
has been largely increased during the
last few years, and that the Lower
Provinces have been in a great measure the cause of it. If the latter was
a fact, we should have seen this great
increase immediately after the union
was etfected, but this was not the case.
Three years elapsed without any remarkable change in this respect, but
as time rolled on, the people became
more settled and satisfied with their
lot, trade began to fall into its proper
channels, and the Revenue began to
increase rapidly. Quebec contributes
as much to their Revenue as any of
the Lower Provinces. The great
Dominion is now being consolidated,
and trade is flourishing accordingly.
The taxation, even now, in this Colony,
is $4.20 per head, whereas in the
Dominion it is only $4.09 per head.
Deduct the cent coinage from last
year's Revenue, and we shall find that
the taxation is about the same in both
cases. The hon. Leader of the Government says that we could remain
out of Confederation and still manage
our own affairs. He also admits that
we could suspend the Railway works.
If we remain out of the union, the
Railway must be stopped. Well, if
he will stop the construction of the
Railway, except that portion between
Charlottetown and Summerside, I care
very little whether he accepts Confederation or not. But his honor goes
on to show that if Confederation is
not accepted, there will be no sale for
the Railway Debentures. Sometimes
the truth will come out in a side wind.
No additional tax, no 2 1/2 per cent to
meet the interest on the Railway debt
is now mentioned. We must stop the
Railway works, and remain out of the
Dominion, if we cannot get Confederation on better Terms. That is encouraging for
the Branch Railways!
I am sure the hon. member for East
Point was astonished at the declaration of his Leader! It will be the
safest plan for hon. members on the
other side of the House to accept the
present Terms, as it is the only sure
way to ensure the construction of the
branch lines. If we have been extravagant and have spent more than
we should have done, we alone should
suffer for our rashness. We have no
right to press unjust claims upon the
Government of the Dominion to make
good what we have extravagantly
spent. The hon. Leader of the Government tries to make out that something has been
omitted from the calculations of the late delegation, in their
negocintions with the Dominion Government. I do not believe the Finance
Minister of Canada is going to reconsider his position, and re-arrange his
Budget Speech to please him, Sir.
He states that the Bay Verte Canal
will cost double five millions of dollars
before it is completed, and that we do
not know anything at all about it!
The debt of Canada is also to be
swelled up to a hundred millions of
dollars ! Are these the arguments he
intends to use when he goes upon the
delegation ? If so, I wish them joy of
their success. The delegation is going to ask payment for certain Lighthouses
and Breakwaters, although they cannot show that the other Provinces
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PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 1873
received anything for similar public
works. If a new principle is laid
down by the Dominion Government
for our benefit, they will have to mete
out equal measure to all the other
Provinces of the union ; but they will
not pay for every paltry Lighthouse
and Breakwater, and a thousand other
little matters for which the Government are going to claim payment.
The resolution should show in what
respect this Colony has been overlooked in the present Terms, but this
it does not do. If the Government
had stated in the resolution what they
intend to ask for, the Opposition might
be prepared to support it, but they
have laid down nothing. I believe
that this delegation is more for the
purpose of carrying out their own
particular policy in reference to the
selection of offices, than for the purpose of obtaining better Terms. Before the
Treaty of Washington was
settled, the Government of the Dominion were anxious to have us included in Confederation,
as they wished to have control of our fisheries, but
since the Treaty, they care very little
whether we are in or out. There
was also a good deal of smuggling from
this Island to the Dominion, some
years ago, and this was another reason
why they wished to have us in Confederation. I am sorry to say our
officers at that time did not try to
crush out that sort of thing, and that
no efficient check was given to it. But
the tables are now turned the other
way, as the tariff of this Island will
soon be higher than that of Canada, if
we remain out of the union. As regards either our fisheries or tariff,
they care very little whether we go in
or stay out ; but they would like to
see the outline of the Dominion rounded up. These delegates are now going up to Ottawa
to threaten that
Government that if they do not give us better Terms, we shall remain out of Confederation.
It is my opinion
that if every hon. member of this
House saw the whole burden that will
fall upon us, when the Railway is
completed, there is not one that would
not shrink from remaining out of the Dominion shapes the interest and
debt. If, in future years, we wish to
improve our Educational system, and
raise the qualification and salaries of
our Teachers, we can increase our
local taxation for that purpose. The
hon. Leader of the Government published a statement in the newspapers,
a few weeks ago, to the effect that the
present Terms are not as good as the
Better Terms of 1869. I differ widely
from him on that point, and have no
confidence in his management. I
could not endorse his resolution, as I
do not know what he intends to ask
for, and I could not promise him that I
will give my unqualified ratification to
Terms I have never heard. He asks
too much from us.
Hon. Mr. HOWLAN.—When the
hon. junior member for Belfast stated
that I was recalled from the Washington delegation, he stated a malicious
falsehood. It is well known that the
newspaper which he conducts is the
receptacle of all the falsehoods and
filth of this Island, and that no dependence can be put upon any statements
it contains. I am quite willing to
compare my Washington delegation
with his Ottawa delegation. I went,
at that time, as far as Boston, on private business, and paid my expenses
thus far from my own pocket. The
Leader of the then Government asked
me to go on to Washington, and I did
so. The Report I made out at New
York was made after the Bill, to which
it had reference, had passed through
Congress, and, therefore, I could not
have committed an error in that way.
I was then asked to go to Montreal on
business connected with the Telegraph lines. I went, and obtained what I asked for.
For this delegation I re
1873 PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 139
ceived my personal expenses, and that
was all. But the Laird-Haythorne
delegation cost the country $856 !
And what did they obtain for this
expenditure? The hon. member did
not do a single thing that was not
already done for him in the Council
Chamber before he started on his mission ! In my hand I hold the Minute
of Council, dated Jan. 2nd, 1873, containing the identical Terms he brought
down from Ottawa, and yet he has the
unblushing effrontery to state on the
floor of this House, that the Terms
were obtained by himself, and that
they cannot be surpassed ! After considerable search, this Minute was
found, although one after another of
those hon. members, who were members of the late Government, declared
there was no such document ! The
late Government decided, before those
delegates left at all, to go for Confederation. We hear the hon. member
state that he debated with Mr. Tilley,
the Dominion Finance Minister, in
endeavoring to obtain liberal Terms
for this Colony ! He did nothing of
the kind, Sir ! At the bottom of this
minute it is stated that certain suggestions were still under consideration ;
but he knew well that such was not
the case. When hon. E. Palmer stated
at a public meeting in Charlottetown,
that the delegates went to "fend off"
Confederation, the hon. James Muirhead stated at Summerside that the
late Government had agreed to carry
it out. There is nothing to show to
this House that the delegates asked
for any Terms they did not obtain.
The late Government might as well
have sent up to Ottawa a sealed envelope containing the Terms they
wished, as to send up that delegation,
for what was asked for was all granted.
MR. LAIRD.—We obtained $5,000
annually, in addition to the Terms contained in that Minute of Council, for
our lands.
Hon. Mr. HOWLAN.—Well, that
was a great performance? The late
Government might as well have sent
two boys, as, according to his own
showing, he got only $5,000 per year !
The hon. Mr. Haythorne has always
been a Confederate, while it is well
known that the hon. junior member for
Belfast was an extreme anti-Confederate, and had been vilifying and
abusing for years, on account of his
opinions, the man who now became
his co-delegate. Then look at the
composition of this Minute of Council !
Talk about English Grammar ! It
would be a fit subject for ridicule for
the boys of any Grammar School. It
is now clearly to be seen that the
Terms were agreed upon in the correspondence between His Honor the
Lieut. Governor, and the Governor
General of Canada. The hon. member says he saw Confederation looming in the distance
since last August.
Perhaps there are other papers which
we may yet get hold of, which will
throw still more light on his perfidious
dealings. The hon. members of the
Opposition have told us over and over
again that the country will not be able
to meet the demands upon it out of
Confederation, but we have here a
document—a Minute of Council—of
their own, stating that the Colony can
pay all its liabilities ! The whole
burden of their song has lately been
about Exchange ; but it was a secondary matter at that time, as this Minute does not
contain a word about it.
The only business the hon. member
ever had control of, was that of the
Charlottetown Woollen Factory, which
suffered terribly under his mismanagement. A man who could carry on a
Factory, and lose $1,400 a year, and
at the close show on the books a profit
of $2,700, must surely be an extraordinary individual ! At the bottom of
this Minute of Council, they state that
the Terms are " still under consideration." They must not be published
140
PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 1873
for the information of the people, because they are alleged to be under
consideration ! The hon. member well
knows they were not under consideration ; yet he comes in here and loudly
complains because the present Government will not tell him what they are
going to ask in addition to the present
Terms ? He is convicted in all those
matters by his own statements, which
bear witness against him. It is now
clear that the Terms obtained by the
late delegates were all arranged for,
and completed for presentation to the
Dominion Government, before they
started at all ; but a great snow storm
took place, and some members of their
Government did not sign it till the
11th of January. It appears the delegates got more from the Dominion
Government than they asked for,
when they received this great boon of
$5000, and that the Colony paid $856
for their services in procuring that
paltry amount, according to the hon.
member's own admission. We had a
long eulogy on the services of the late
Collector, Mr. Currie. Immediately
after the present officer was appointed,
the Government had to put a gentleman in that office to put the books in
order, and make up the Accounts, as
the latter were found to be far behind.
The Coalition appointed a committee
to investigate, and they proved that
there was smuggling going on, but
Mr. Currie, instead of seizing the
smuggled goods when he found them,
said to the owners, "just give us a
bond and we shall say nothing about
it." It is a notorious fact that because
a man in Prince County let some salt
water get into a cask of liquor, he had
$35 knocked off the duty! And yet
we are now told that the late Collector gave a great check to smuggling!
The hon. member is terribly afraid
that Messrs. Pope and Howlan will go
up to Ottawa and get all the offices,
and that the country will be ruined !
I never had a public office in my life ;
but I dare say that if we go up, we
shall break up his little game of obtaining office for himself and his
friends. We were condemned by the
late Government, and refused a committee of investigation ; but who has
the country now condemned ? It has
Condemned the late Government and
their Terms with them. We have
been told by the Opposition that if
another delegation receives a concession of $1000 per year more from the
Dominion, the country should not accept it. This is a specimen of their
honesty and patriotism. When the
hon. junior member for Belfast paid
his first visit to Canada, he saw nothing
worth looking at but some onions—all
the rest was not worth mentioning.
But he now sees everything in a new
light—everything there appears great,
grand, and good, to this would-be- financier ! We have no municipal or
parochial taxes in this Colony, and
though we should get the best Terms
that can be got, we shall be taxed
more heavily when we enter Confederation. He (Mr. Laird) took up the
Budget Speech of hon. Mr. Tilley, and
knew as much about it after he had
got through it, as when he commenced
to read it. When he states that our
taxes are about equal to those of the
Dominion, he says what he knows to
be false. A new idea has entered his
brain, and that is, to stop the Railway at Summerside ! He once went
to the polls crying, "No Railway, stop
the Railway," but hen be secured his
election, he voted for building the
branches ! He boasts of having obtained $22 per head more than any of
the other Provinces. We know that
when the other Provinces entered
Confederation, no Pacific Railway or
any of the other great works, now
proposed, was then thought of, and,
therefore, their allowance per head
could not be as great as if they were
only now entering. No man can tell
what may take place within the next
1873 PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 141
few years to increase the Dominion
debt to an enormous extent. A war,
for instance, or some enormous expenditure for some particular purpose,
would greatly change, the present condition of matters. No man can look
into the vista of the future and say
what they will spend on public works
during the next fifteen years. It is
only a farce on his part, where he
attempts to do so. I am surprised at
the want of prudence and knowledge
of our Colonial affairs which characterizes the present minority. If we
go to Ottawa on our risk, we shall
convict them of short-sightedness,
which will place them in a ridiculous
position before the country. Suppose
we can bring $4000 for $5000 per
year, in addition to the present Terms,
will not the people thank us for obtaining it, and saving them from so
much local taxation ? We have not,
in the present Terms, sufficient to
carry on the business of the country,
and as this will be our last opportunity
to obtain still better Terms, we shall
be censured by the people if we do
not improve it. The hon. Junior member for Belfast has got so rich from
the Queen's printership, that a thousand or two dollars are nothing at all
in his sight, and our little Lighthouses,
Breakwaters and Drill Sheds, are, in
his estimation, not worth mentioning.
Everything down here is only a two
penny halfpenny affair in his eyes,
According to his calculations when
they spend more than they receive in
the Dominion, all they have to do is
to charge it to "Capital Account."
That is surely a splendid way to get
clear of debt! He says that the Intercolonial Railway cost $20,000,000,
that so much was spent, and that ten
millions were carried over and charged
to Capital Account.
MR. McNEILL said it was not right
to keep the people in suspense respecting what the intention of the Government is.
It appeared to him they had
no objections to the Laird-Haythorne
Terms, the only real objection being
that they did not originate with his
honor, the Leader of the Government
himself. He did hope the Govern-,
ment would have brought down a
resolution which he could have supported. He felt, however, that a
healthy opposition was of much service to a country, as it kept a Government up more
closely to the line of
duty it should follow. Arguments
were brought forward to show that the
Terms offered are not sufficient. He
is willing to admit that if our situation
as a Colony was the same as it was a
few years ago, he would much rather
not unite with the Dominion. But
the circumstances of the Colony have
so changed, that it is unreasonable to
expect that better Terms can be had.
If, however, he took a wrong view of
the matter, and by the vote he feels it
his duty to record in the matter,
should thereby do an injustice to his
constituents, he would be sorry. It
might be possible that the cost of the
public works of Canada were under
valued, and if so it would form the
basis of a good argument in favor of
better Terms ; and if so, no doubt the
Dominion will deal justly with us.
But up to the present moment the
Government have not shown any
reason why further coacessions should
be made. If the hon. member for
Bedeque will bring forward a resolution, based upon arguments which will
show that we can raise sufficient of
Revenue to meet the demands of the
Colony, he (Mr. McNeill) may yet
support it. There can only be a certain amount of duty raised from our
Imports. We would next have to
levy an increased tax upon real estate.
If the hon. member is prepared to go
to his constituents with such a proposition, then he is right, but for his
(Mr. McNeill) part, he could not obtain the consent of his constituents for
levying such a tax. The resolution is
142
PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 1873
not such an one as he expected would
have been tabled. But he did hope
his honor would have brought forward
one in favor of a branch line of Railroad to Rustico. Instead of that he
came forward with arguments in favor
of pay for Drill Sheds, Barracks, and
Lighthouses. Well, if we can get any
allowance for these he would be glad.
It would be always so much. If, however, we give the delegates the power
they ask for, we will, by that resolution, be bound to support whatever
Terms they may agree to, and if they
take the Railway as a local work, it
would be ruinous to the Colony. He
would not say there is any disposition
on the part of the Government to do
anything of the kind. He knew his
constituents had a horror of the Railroad, and will not support any resolution which
empowers the delegates to
agree to such Terms as they please,
and then be bound to support them as
those will who vote for the resolution
of the Leader of the Government.
He, however, had no wish to throw
any unnecessary obstacles in the way,
believing as he did, that the sooner
the matter is settled the better.
MR. L. H. DAVIES.—In rising to
address this committee, Mr. Chairman,
it is not my intention to trouble you
with any lengthy remarks, as I expressed my views pretty freely when
his honor the Speaker was in the
chair, and, therefore, shall not repeat
what I said on that occasion. In the
resolution and amendment before us
there are, however, phases of thought
which I shall briefly notice. I regret
that the Leader on the independent
benches of this committee, has not seen
fit to table the resolution he says he is
going to submit. As the hon. gentleman professes to be an out and out no
Terms man, I should like to see his
resolution and hear the arguments by
which he intends to support it. I am
glad that, to some extent, this debate
has been carried on with some defer
ence to that decorum which is due to
the position we occupy here, and,
therefore, regret the impropriety of
some remarks indulged in here last
night. The explanations made by my
hon. friend from New London, respecting that letter of his, should have been
received as ample, to prevent the
tirade of language it called forth last
night, when reference was made to
that incident. His honor the Leader
of the Government said he had no
respect for anything which might be
said by the hon. member for Murray
Harbor. I can assure the hon. gentleman I have just as much contempt for
his opinions. But, Mr. Chairman, as
I said before, this is a question which
lifts itself above that which is partizan
or personal. When I reflect that our
local constitution will soon cease, that
whether we look to the past, the present or the future, there is undoubtedly
much in the question before us to call
for earnest attention and due consideration. If the hon. gentlemen who
purpose going up as delegates, and
who ask to be supported by such a
resolution, carry it, and fail in securing
even as good Terms as those already
offered, we would then regret that our
indiscretion led us to adopt such a
course. But if we agree to bestow
the power on the delegates which this
resolution asks, we will be bound to
accept them, even though they might
be as good as those now offered. Instead, however, of the hon. gentleman
supporting his resolution with arguments bearing upon the important
interests involved, he attempts to sneer
at what he was pleased to call the
dash away policy of the hon. member
for New London, and although the
hon. member denied the correctness of
the construction put upon his words,
showing that it had no connection with
the context, and demanded that his
letter be produced, or the construction
put upon it be withdrawn, yet neither
was done. When so reasonable and
1873 PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 143
just a demand was made, and not complied with, it was very unfair and ungentlemanly
to insist upon the interpretation put upon the words of the
hon. member. I find that great credit
is claimed for the certificate of character given to the Government which
carried the Railway Bill, in the Report of the inspecting Engineers. The
hon. member claims that the charges
made against that Government are
not ratified by the Report. I think
the charges made against them are
ratified. They were charged with
letting the contract in an unbusiness
like manner, and in a way which
allowed the contractors unnecessarily
to lengthen the road, for their own
benefit, at the expense of the country.
And the difference arose as to the loss
which the country would really sustain by this omission of attention to
the interests of the people on the part
of the Government when letting the
contract for the main line. Now on
that point the Engineers give a decided answer. They say :— "The
manner of letting the contract, viz., at
a certain price per mile, instead of at a
fixed price between given points, and
over a staked out line, we think is the
cause of the differences which have
arisen between the Government, the
Government Engineer, and the contractors." Now, I ask what is there
in these words to show that they did
right ? Do they not prove the correctness of the charges which we preferred against
them for the way in
which they let the contract? They say
it was the " cause of the difference "
which arose, and if they are willing to
take that as a justification of their
conduct, then all I have to say is may
God help them. The hon. member
did not reply to the able arguments of
my hon. friend the Leader of the Opposition. Instead of arguing the question out upon
its merits, the hon. member descended to abuse. He says the
House should have been called to
meet, and the situation of the Colony
considered before delegates were sent
to Canada ; and that the Terms, upon
which the Colony would consent to
enter into Confederation should
have been first submitted to the House.
But what is the hon. member now
doing? He brings forward a resolution which asks for extension powers,
while he refuses to say what Terms
they intend to look for themselves. I
contend the late Government did right
in the course they pursued. There
are times and occasions when all the
information in the possession of a
Government, should not be made public. Had the Terms entered into by
the delegates been made known when
concluded, the Opposition might have
used them as a means for overthrowing
the present minority at Ottawa. At
the meeting held at Centerville, last
year, the hon. member thought it
would be a good speculation to rent
the Railway. If he entertains the
same views still, he, when he goes up
to Ottawa, may conclude to take the
road and work it for ourselves as a
local work. The hon. Leader of the
Opposition very wisely enquired what
they intended to do in that matter, but
received no reply. I look upon the
resolution as containing a principle
which should not be conceded. I am
astonished that the hon member
for Tryon should think of supporting
it. I am surprised to think the hon.
member should for a moment think of
supporting it. Will he do so and go
against the pledge given to his constituents ? I believe notwithstanding
the pledge of the hon. member, he
will hold on to the Government so
long as in doing so he can clear the
tails of his own skirts. I ask the hon.
gentleman if he would be willing to
take the Railway and run it as a local
work at a loss of $50,000 a year ? I
did expect his honor the Leader of the
Government when he came down with
his resolution would have told us what
144
PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 1873
the Terms are which he is going to
demand of Canada. But on the contrary, he treats the committee as if we were little
school boys, and unworthy of having such information communicated to us. If the hon.
member from Bedeque will keep clear of the troubled waters before him, he will not
think of voting for that resolution. I know if we go into Confederation we will not
realize as large an amount of impost duty as we do now. Of manufactured goods, such
as boots, shoes, hardware and other articles, we import large quantities. Hence all
these on which the importers have now to pay an impost duty of 12 1/2 per cent besides
2 1/2 per cent for Railway tax, all of which will come in free under the Dominion
tariff. In 1871 we imported from Canada proper,
| Goods to the value of £75 4s. 2d. stg., equal to |
$377,103 |
| Upon which duty amounting to to £3,860 stg., was paid or |
19,300 |
| From Nova Scotia value of goods import £62 4s. 9d. stg., or $310,243 |
|
| Duty paid |
45,303 |
| New Brunswick value £50 18s. 2d. stg.,or $164,010 yielding a duty of £5,328 stg.,
equal to |
$26.640 |
| Showing an amount of duty paid of |
91,243 |
| From which we have to deduct the proportion of this amount paid on goods not the production
or manufacture of Canada, under cover of protective duty, say one half or duty on
$420,672, duty on which is |
40,621 |
|
$50,622 |
Showing that had we been in Confederation in 1871, we would have received $50,622
less than we did. Perhaps the senior member for Bedeque has not duly looked into this
phase of of the subject. I believe the time is not far distant when our importations
from the Dominion will be three times what it is at the present time. It is encouraging
that notwithstanding the outlay of money in Canada, for the building and extension
of canals, the Intercolonial Railroad, and other important and costly public works,
taken in connection with the fact that they were put to the expense of repelling,
within the past few years. two invasions, yet her heneral taxation has not increased
more than about one dollar a head above the increase True, large public works are
yet in the course of construction, while the Pacific Railroad and other public works
have not been commenced. Still I do not think we should look upon those vast undertakings
with any alarm or dread. The population of Canada will go on increasing. Her vast
and fertile territory will yet be the home of millions; and the extent of her mineral
and manufacturing resources are so great, that we may look forward with pride to the
prospective future of the Dominion of Canada. I believe my hon. friend, the junior
member of New London, did not overstrain the argument when he said that in looking
forward ten years he saw that magnificant country peopled with agriculturists, artizans,
and laborers, to an extent now little thought of. Yes, when its resources become fully
developed, it will become a great and powerful country. it is now but arising, as
it were, to take possession of her vast, rich and various resources, and were I to
enlarge to a greater extent in depicting her future, I feel I would still not overestimate
what will yet be realized. It is true,
1873 PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 145
some years ago I apposed Confederation. I did so then because we were not laboring
under a heavy debt. Then I saw that our farmers were getting rich, and our trade doubling
itself every seven years. I saw a prosperity among our people which a few years ago
would have been regarded as fabulous. But, Sir, when I saw that fine picture married
and blotted by a measure which imposed a burden so much heavier than this Island could
bear, or our people support, I thought it became every man to do what in him lay,
to present such a measure being thrust upon the country. But it was carried, and the
result is that our only escape lay in a union with Canada. In all honesty and candor
I call upon the hon. member for Bedeque to show how they propose raising an increased
Revenue of $200,000 ? for if their proposition is feasible, I may be yet induced to
support it. As regards the hon member, the Leader of the Government, I find in looking
over the Parliamentary Reporter for 1871, that hon. Mr. Pope is reported to have said : " He had carefully considered
the question, and firmly believed that not more than £12,000 would be, in any one
year, drawn from the Colony for interest ; the balance would remain in the country,
and that instead of draining the resources of the Colony, it would make money more
plenty, and give an impetus to the trade of the Colony never before experienced ;
so that he thought the hon. member for New London, with all his acknowledged ability
and shrewdness, would yet find that his calculations were not reliable." I do not
know whether the hon. gentleman had given due consideration to the subject, but it
does appear that his arguments carried the House along with him at that time, therefore
it was that they should now look at his arguments with a good deal of suspicion. I
say, Sir, his honor the Leader of the Government drew a fine picture of the state
of the
Colony then. According to his theory
half of the capital for the construction of the road would be obtained here, so that
but half of the interest of the debt would be drawn off the Island. But when I find
that instead of $40,000 being required to pay the interest due abroad, we have to
send away $130,000, so that the prosperity anticipated by the hon. gentleman has not
been realized, therefore we have no right to expect that we can attain to it now.
If we remain out of Confederation our tariff will have to be raised much higher. It
is much higher now than it is in the Dominion. The average duty in Canada is not more
than 10 per cent, while ours is 12 per cent. I may state that I believe every gentleman
on this hon. committee regards it the duty of every man here to vote for for the present
Terms, therefore, when we are called upon to give our assent to a resolution in favor
of sending up another delegation to ask for better Terms, we should have some data
given, upon which to found a claim for better Terms, or otherwise we will but stulify
ourselves if we vote for it.
MR. HOWATT.—Sir, the hon. gentleman is afraid I will get into some difficulty with my constituents,
and is anxious to assist me with some advice. Well, while I am much obliged to the
hon. member, I still am dubious about acting upon the unsolicited advice of a lawyer.
He contemplates shoving us into the Dominion immediately. For my part I am in no hurry
about the matter, and believe the longer we keep out the better. Therefore, I prefer
that the delegates to up and see if better Terms can be had. If it does no more, it
will keep us our that much longer. This is for the present I regard as my best course
notwithstanding the advice of the hon. gentleman. My intention is to move a resolution
of my own when the proper time arrives. But what am I to think of the very fine pictures
which the learned gentle
146
PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 1873
man has drawn of Canada? He has put
his arguments forward in very glowing
language, and arrayed the Dominion in
fine colors. I agree with him that in
the Dominion they raise much of their
Revenue through their municipal institutions, and if we unite with them we
shall have to resort to the same means
of raising the funds we will require
for local purposes. Therefore, I cannot see any difference between increasing our
taxation now under our present
form of constitution, and resorting to
direct taxation when we have handed
the power we now possess over to the
Canadian Government. And how are
we to know what the tariff of Canada
will be in the future ? Will any one
for a moment suppose the Government of the Dominion can exist and
do the business of the Dominion of
of Canada without a Revenue ? Why
they are building Railroads and other
expensive works, which will be a drag
upon their Government for many a
day, and for these we undoubtedly
will have to be taxed. I, for one, do
not believe we are justified in going so
hastily into this matter. I understand
the resolution and also the amendment.
I would like to spend my days under
the constitution we have, but if it has
come to this that we have no alternative but union with Canada, then by
all means let us try and obtain Terms
which will enable us to get along without having to resort to local taxation.
If they no not obtain better Terms in
New Brunswick, I believe the whole
thing will yet burst up. The contractors would only be too glad to give
up the branches, if asked to do so, and
we could meet, with due care and
management, the liabilities of the
main line. I ran my election on the
anti-Confederate ticket, without any
side issues. I said that I respected
the late Government, but that their
action on the question of Corfederation had separated me from them, and
that when I came here I would have
to oppose them.
MR. HOLLAND said, Mr. Chairman,
Why, Sir, I am perfectly astonished to
think the hon. gentleman, the Leader
of the Opposition, should come forward
here and attempt to twit any hon.
member of the committee with inconsistency, for if there is a public man
in this Colony who has turned more
political somersaults than another, it
is the hon. member for Belfast. I
fully concur in the opinion of my hon.
colleague, and believe it is admitted
by men of as much financial ability as
any in this Colony, that we might, if
so disposed, succeed in meeting our
liabilities, while retaining our present
form of Government. I believe if we
issued small Debentures, for ten years,
at seven and a half per cent, that quite
a number of them would be taken up
by the wealthy farmers and other men
of means in this Island. I am persuaded many of them could, in this
way, easily be disposed of to men of
limited capital, who would readily invest their money in such Government
securities. Such a mode of raising
money for the immediate requirements of the country would have been
much more successful, and honorable,
than that of sending the Colonial
Secretary to Halifax to bring down
the credit of the Colony in the manner he did, by attempting to sell our
Debentures in that market. When I
contrast the arguments of the junior
member for Belfast with those he
used in 1867, shortly after the Colonies became united, I feel surprised.
In the
Patriot of the 19th of September, 1867, he says: " In this Colony
we have as yet the right to regulate
our own taxes, and the privilige of
appropriating these taxes for our benefit. The two sister Provinces. have
lost these priceless blessings. Nova
Scotia and New Brunswick can henceforth be taxed by a Canadian majority,
obtained it may be, through the most
shameless bribery and corruption.
The levying and appropriation of the
taxes are as important to the well
1873 PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 147
being of a country as liberty of speech
and freedom of the press." The hon.
gentleman has told us also in his paper,
that if we went into the Dominion our
taxes would run up to £40 a family.
Quoting also from his paper of the
14th September, 1867, he says that in
the matter of taxation "the weaker
party must go to the wall," adding,
" The Toronto
Daily Telegraph, a
ministerial paper, in a recent issue said :
'If Confederation does nothing else
for us, it will at all events give us
another governing body, with the
power of imposing taxes, and yet we
believe that if there was one thing
more than another that Ontario could
at the present moment dispense with,
it is an addition to the taxing power.
For, in the country, as it is, we have
federal legislation and local legislation,
and County Councillors, and Township
Councillors, and School Trustees, all
taxing or about taxing us at the same
time, and in the cities we have the
City Council, who is equal in taxing
ability to County Councillors and
Township Councillors together. We
have thus five taxing powers.' " He
then goes on to say that if we went
into the Dominion, " taxation must increase. In Canada, where the people pay to the
Government 25s. per
head over and above large sums taken
out of their pockets by Councillors and
School Trustees, what would be the
fate of Prince Edward Island, where
there are no County and Township
taxes, and where the whole public
service is but 15s. or 16s. a head ?
To this Colony Confederation means
increasing our taxes two fold without
any corresponding advantage." How
comes it now that the hon. member
has changed his views so suddenly ?
Perhaps he has been bribed in order
that he might attain a position among
the Canadian swells and pedlars
(order.) Surrendering the power of
levying our own taxes to others, with
absolute power to levy as much upon
us as they chose, is an important
consideration. We may probably obtain as much as for the present may
meet our local wants, but we have no
idea of what will be imposed upon us
in the future. By uniting with the
Dominion we will become responsible
in the future for one million dollars
more than we owe at present. There
is no country in the world where, in
proportion to its population, they build
so many costly public works as they
do in Canada. The Ministry are
forced into these in order to enable
them to keep in power. We have the
authority of Judge Wilmot for saying
that Confederation in New Brunswick
was brought about by means of a
Fenian raid. I expect they took some
important lessons from the junior
member for Belfast before they set out
on their expedition. (Laughter.)
New Brunswick is now dissatisfied
with her condition, and is seeking for
better Terms. This I look upon as a
deplorable condition for any people to
be in, after having, by their own act,
deprived themselves of the important
power and privilege of self government. The hon. gentlemen of the
Opposition are fond of referring to the
members who, as they say, occupy the
independent benches. But Sir, we
have taken our stand on this question,
and shall hold to it. It does appear to
me, however, that the whole of the
Opposition feel that their seats may
now be looked upon as holding those
who occupy the penitential benches.
They are anxious that I should bring
down my Budget. The junior member for Belfast, and the learned member for Murray Harbor
were anxious
to see it. They would rather refer to
almost anything than another delegation to Ottawa, so well convinced
are they that if it succeeds in getting
a few thousand dollars more that it
would be their political death. Hence
they have Spoken against time. If
the arguments of the junior member
148
PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 1873
for Belfast were good in 1867, it becomes him to show why the same
reasoning does not afford ground for a
good argument in 1873? The late
Government fought their way to power
by a skillful use of the weapons of
deflection. The edge of their arms
have become somewhat blunted, and
having had a taste of the sweets of
office, and the political loaves and
fishes upon which they regaled themselves during the past year, they would
resort to any means to retain them.
Had they, when they came into power,
said to the eastern members that they
could not sustain the proposition for
building the branch lines, and if by so
doing found themselves in a minority,
an appeal to the people would have
placed them in a better position than
they ever did, or are likely to occupy.
MR. HOWATT.—The learned member from Murray Harbor wished to
know if the members on the independent benches would vote for the resolution, and
expressed the Opinion that if
we did we would not understand what
we were doing? But the learned
gentleman is himself in that position,
for he cannot tell what the tariff of the
Dominion will be in a few years, or
even next year, After Nova Scotia
got in, every exertion possible to use
to get out again, was resorted to, but
in vain. Why should the hon. gentleman wish to drive us in so hastily?
He would like to know positively what
the actual debt of the Dominion is ;
also, whether the debt of our Railway
will be higher than it has been placed
at? He understood the Dominion
was only bound to assume three and a
quarter millions as our Railway debt.
This is a question which should be
fairly considered. We may say we
will not have to tax ourselves unless
we chose, but if driven into that position, we might not be able to help ourselves.
It is the duty of the Government to reject the Terms brought down.
We do not know what another year
may do for us. It is ruinous to jump
so rashly into a position from which
we can never retrieve ourselves. He
would sooner go in for the dash away
policy. Yes, let us tax ourselves, and
pay our debts like honest men. We
should not go begging at the door of
Canada as if this was an Island of
paupers. He was willing that the
farmers should bear their full share of
the burden. Charlottetown should
also pay in proportion to its wealth, for
he did not believe in taxing, the country while the town went soot free.
There had been too much of that already, besides it was the town which
brought this trouble upon us. He felt
confident if we were all willing, that a
tax, not overburdensome, might be imposed which would enable us to retain
our constitution and work out our own
destiny.
MR. LAIRD thought the hon. members on the independent benches were
exceedingly anxious to keep some of
the Opposition on the penitential
benches. (Laughter.) Indeed he
thought there had been quite recently
an acquisition to their number, and
that there were three independent
members, although one might be claimed as belonging to the sleeping
benches. (Laughter.) No doubt
many would take it as a blessing if
the number of the latter class was
larger. He wished merely to correct
some errors which the hon. gentleman
had fallen into. He thinks the Dominion, on account of our Railway
debt, have but to assume three and a
quarter millions. This is a mistake.
The words are, they are to assume the
whole of that debt. If the hon. gentleman will look at the Terms they read
thus : "The Railways under contract
and in course of construction for the
Island Government, shall be the property of Canada." This it will be
seen covers the whole cost of the main
line and branches. A good deal has
been said about the delegation now go
1873 PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 149
ing up to Ottawa. Well, what are they
going up for ? One hon. gentleman wants a branch line to Rustico. He agreed in that
opinion. Another
thinks there should be a branch to
Belfast, as their Queen's Printer is
taking Rustico in charge, he would not
object. Perhaps, the hon. member
from that place will support the resolution if they agree to that. If they
were asked to promise a branch to
Belfast they would probably not comply. Yet they. in this resolution, ask
this committee for its unqualified support in a matter conferring upon the
delegation extraordinary powers,which
every member sppporting the resolution will be called upon to affirm on
their return. It is clear the junior
member for Bedeque has been studying the
Patriot. If he studied it more
it would not do him the least harm.
Even now it helps him along with his
speech. That five horse power he
there discovered, has helped him along wonderfully. No argument whatever
has been brought forward to show that
it is other than an act of folly, to send
up another delegation to ask for better
Terms. By the Terms offered we
can carry on the Government, and
manage to carry on the local Government of the Colony without having to
resort to Municipal or County taxation.
In Ontario and the other Provinces,
they have to tax, themselves for education. He (Mr. L.) had long been
an admirer of the system of education
in Ontario. In every respect it is highly creditable to them. From the
small common Day School, up to the
finest Seminaries and Colleges, their
system is excellent ; and nearly all the
money required for keeping these institutions in operation is borne by the
local institutions of the country. Nothing can be more creditable to their patriotism
and intelligence than the manner in which they give attention to these matters. He
had been through them and saw a detailed statement of
the items which formed matter for
levying a school tax. When these are
all known, the cost is estimated, and a
tax levied upon the inhabitants to raise
the amount required. For years to
come we will not require to resort to
direct taxation for these purposes.
The day, however, may arrive when
our Grammar Schools may become
small Academies, but by that time he
hoped the people would gradually become willing and able to bear the
increased tax which their support will
require. If, however, we do not go in
we will require to levy a tax of at
least ten shillings a head for every
man, woman and child, in the Colony.
MR. BEER was not a Confederate
from choice, but from necessity. But
since we are brought into the position we are, saw no other alternative.
At the same time, he would like to
see the Island get as good Terms as
possible, and would support the resolution were it not that the latter part
of it bound these who voted for it to
vote also for such Terms as the delegates may agree to. Before he would
bind himself to anything of the kind he
would like first to see the Terms. He
thought the last four lines in the resolution had no right there ; the resolution
as a whole was such as he could
not agree to, he would vote for the
amendment.
The amendment was then put and
lost. Yeas 10. Nays l5.
"Resolved, That it is the opinion of
this House that the best interests and
future prosperity of Prince Edward
Island would be secured by refusing
Terms of admission into union with
the Dominion of Canada."
and said as he had already expressed
his opinions pretty freely, he would
not trouble the committee with many
remarks. He merely wished his reso
150
PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 1873
lution to stand as a record to show
who was and who was not right. For
his part he could not see any just reason for going into Confederation at all.
Mr. HOLLAND rose to second the
Resolution of his hon. colleague.
Hon. Mr. McEACHERN did not agree
with the views of the hon. members
for Bedeque, but admired their consistency. He too would gladly ward
off the difficulty, and decline to enter
into a union with Canada, if he saw
any feasible way by which it could be
done. But strong as were the feelings
of himself and those he had the honor
to represent on that question, yet he
saw no way to ward off Confederation,
and, theretore, felt it to be his duty to
vote for the Resolution.
Hon. P. SINCLAIR said, By the
wording of the resolution those who
vote for it will be bound to support
such Terms as the delegates may bring
down, no matter how disadvantageous
they may be to the Colony. At the
same time, if they bring down better
Terms than those already offered, he
would not be found willingly working
against the interests of the Colony.
But under all the circumstances he
thought it better to let the Government know that if they do not succeed
in bringing better Terms down, he
would be at liberty to vote against
them.
Mr. JAMES YEO said he was returned to support the Terms brought
down by Mr. Laird. The Terms were
honestly and fairly laid before the
people. As they are asking that another delegation be sent to Ottawa,
before he (Mr. Yeo) would support
any such a resolution, he would just
like to know what the Terms are
which they expect to receive, and who
the delegates are that are to be appointed ? The hon. member for
Alberton should not find fault with
the late Government for building the
Branch Lines. He took good care
when he was in power to have the
line brought to his own door, and ought
not to object to other people obtaining
the same privileges. Something had
been said about his opposing Captain
Richards. His opinion was, that if
Capt. Richards, when in the House,
had not stuck so close to the hon.
member for Alberton, he would have
been a representative of the second
Electoral District of Prince County
yet. He could not understand how a
gentleman could, on the public platform,
make statements which he would a few
days afterwards as publicly go against.
Such would not be the man he would
send up as a delegate to seek for better Terms. Much had been said about
the School Question. It was very
strange that three years ago that hon.
member should have come out so
strongly in favor of that question, and
shortly afterwards signed a written
document pledging himself not to
agitate that measure for four years. I
do not blame him for not pressing that
question, but if he had been elected to
carry out any certain line of policy, he
would keep his promise. There are
twelve Catholic members now on the
side of the House the hon. member
sits on, why does he not now move in
his favorite scheme when he has so
many to support his views ?
Hon. Mr. HOWLAN.—Had no intention to speak, but as the speech of
the hon. member was all about him, he
supposed he must reply. The hon.
gentleman, when the Railway Bill
was passing through the House, was
one of the strongest Railway men in
the country. When a strong anti- Railway party came into power, he
ran with, and supported them. He
(Mr. H.) did not refer to the hon.
member this Session, but his vindictiveness was such that he could not
get up and address the hon. committee
without uttering a tirade of abuse
against him. The hon. member said that he (Mr. H.) placed the Railway
1873 PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 151
Station at his own door, and now that
he had twelve Catholic supporters in
the House, he ought to move on the
School Question. Catholic members
understand the hon. member quite
well. He did happen to say that if
Capt. Richards had been here at the
last general election he would have
been returned. He thought so still.
The hon. member thinks he could not
have been beaten. But his father,
who was a better man than the hon.
member is, on one occasion lost an
election.
Mr. JOHN YEO thought the speeches
of the two last hon. gentlemen were
quite out of place. He had himself
been returned as a Confederate. He
told the people he was very anxious
to keep out of Confederation if it could
be done, and asked to be, and had
been, returned unpledged. He said he
thought the Terms were pretty good,
but if better can be had it was desirable, and, therefore, felt it to be his duty
to lend his aid to obtain better Terms
if they can be had. He had looked into
the matter for himself, and was of the
opinion that by the Terms brought
down, it would be found that they
would fall at least £12,000 short of
what would be required for local purposes.
Mr. McLEAN said when the Railway measure was inaugurated, he was
convinced from his knowledge of the
inability of the people of this country
to pay the burden it would impose, that
his duty was to oppose the Bill. He
regarded it in the first instance as a
gigantic measure, which would involve
the country to an extent that would
embarrass the Government in difficulties from which it would be impossible
to be relieved. Shortly after the Bill
was passed, a meeting was held in his
district, when the opinion seemed to
be that if we had the money within
ourselves, so that the interest on the
cost of the work might not be drawn
out of the Colony, the undertaking
would not be so objectionable. This
he knew we had not, and that as a
result the money would be drawn out
of the country. He must say that
while he sat in the late Government.
they acted in as straight forward a
manner as men could, nor did he think
they did anything to injure the finances
of the Colony. But it is not easy for
any Government to carry on the business of the country without making
some blunders. He believed if it were
not for the efforts of him and others
who acted with him last year, Souris
and Tignish would not have branch
lines of the Railroad at all. And if
the Bill had not been brought in when
it was, the people in those two places
would have failed to secure this boon.
Among the arguments brought forward the School Question was referred to. It was not
put as a question
before the people at the late election,
and, therefore, is only used now for
the purpose of making political capital
out of it. It is a question, though,
which will have to be settled yet, and
that he thought could easily be done
by a slight alteration in the Act, which
would set the question at rest to the
great advantage of the country. He
was present last evening at an examination in the school taught in St.
Patrick's Hall, and thought it highly
creditable to the teachers in that
school. He saw a boy there from his
own neighborhood, who acquitted himself admirably. The privileges of
education should be general, and not
confined to the rich. Taunts ought
not to be thrown out against the
Catholics, as though they had been
pledged against Confederation, unless
the School Question was settled according to their wish. It was, however, a question
which should not be
trifled with. For his part he came
here to do the best he could to promote
the general interests of his constituents. They are beginning to see that
152 PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 1873
they who look best after their general interests are best entitled to have their support.
He would, some time ago have been unwilling to support the resolution before them,
but seeing what the state of the Colony is, would now feel it his duty to vote for
it.
MR. HOWATT'S amendment was then put and lost ; 2 for it and 24 against.
The main resolution was then carried—yeas 16, nays 10.
The House then resumed, when the Chairman reported from the Committee one resolution
agreed to.
MR. A. C. McDONALD then said, Mr. Speaker, during my election I ran as an anti-Confederate. At that
time I did not believe the situation of the country was such as it is. I was then
of the opinion that we would be able for this year, and for some time to come to carry
on the business of the country, and to meet the usual expenditure. Now we have to
look at matters as they are, and not as we supposed they were, and having done so
I feel it to be my duty to support the resolution. As a public man I believe my first
duty is to consider what is best for the country at large, and then act accordingly.
I have, as one, to consider our embarrassed position, and act as I believe will best
promote the common good. Reference has been made to the Railroad ; all I have to say
is that the vote I gave then, I gave heartily, and from the firm conviction that it
would be promotive of the best interests of the country. It is not worth our while
now to enquire what led to the present difficulty, but I am persuaded the uppermost
idea in the mind of those who originated and voted for the Railway Bill, was the general
good of the country, and in voting for this resolution I am sure it will prove to
be for the best interests, not only of my constituents, but of the country at large.
The amendment of Mr. Laird was put and lost. Yeas 16, nays 10.
MR. HOWATT then moved his amendment, which was lost. Yeas 2, nays 24.
The main resolution was then carried on the following division :—
Yeas —Messrs. J. C. Pope, Howlan, Owen, T. Kelly, Lefurgy, A. J. Mc Donald, Howatt,
Holland, John Yeo, F. Kelly, McLean, A. C. McDonald, McEachen, J. A. McDonald, McIsaac,
Arsenault—16.
Nays—Messrs. Laird, B. Davies, Callbeck, McNeill, Beer, Stewart, James Yeo, L. H.
Davies, Sinclair, Rowe—10.
Adjourned until 10 o'clock to-morrow.
This individual participated in:
