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THE LEADER.
REGINA, N.W.T., THURSDAY EVENING, DECEMBER 16, 1897.
LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY PROROGUED
A SEVEN WEEKS' SESSION BROUGHT TO
A CLOSE YESTERDAY.
Synopsis of Proceedings of the Last Week of Session — Unanimous Expression Against
Mutilation
of the Boundaries — Jubilee Address —
Question of Jurisdiction in Yukon – New Brand
Law – Important Municipal Amendments —
Variety of Legislation.
THURSDAY, Dec. 9, 1897.
Report was presented from select committee appointed to redraft Rules of Proceedings
of the House, and Rules for
government of the Library.
PRESERVE THE BOUNDARIES.
Mr. GILLIES, seconded by
Mr. Dill, moved That in the opinion of this House, the
North-West Territories as they are at
present composed should be maintained
intact for administrative purposes until
the time has arrived for their entrance
into confederation as a province.
The mover said the subject had already
been pretty fully discussed, and he had
been well pleased with Mr. Haultain's
references to it on Monday. It was possible that they attached too much importance
to the suggestion made by the Premier of Manitoba last year with reference
to extending the bounds of Manitoba. It
might be said, too, that the subject had
dropped. Still he was of opinion that it
was important that the Assembly should
with all its might denounce any proposition to cut into the boundaries of the
Territories. When Mr. Greenway's suggestion was made, the people of Eastern
Assimboia freely expressed their opinions.
If any move had been made to carry out the
suggestion, he should not wish to be responsible for what might have occurred.
They knew what did occur once at Edmonton over the proposed removal of a land
office, and he believed one of the Members of the House (Mr. McCauley) took
prominent and successful action in that
occurrence. If any hon. Member would
visit Eastern Assinibois he would
find that there was an attempt to exaggerate what was the feeling of the people
there on this question. He was satisfied
that if any move had been made, our own
Executive would have taken energetic
measures so far as lay in their power to
oppose it. Probably the Government
had been wise, as no move was made, to
ignore the suggestion. He said that great
credit was due the press of the Territories,
particularly the Regina "Leader" and
Moosomin "Spectator," as well as to
certain private individuals, for the way
they had discussed and opposed the proposition to allow Manitoba to take a valuable
portion of the Territories; and it
was, he believed, in no small measure
due to their efforts and energy that the
suggestion was nipped in the bud. There
could not be the slightest doubt that the
Premier of Manitoba had been sincere in
his wish to annex a portion of the Territories. In some quarters in the east it
was urged that this country was too large
for a province. That arguinent was perfectly absurd, as the size and diversities
of Ontario proved. He made the motion
to give force to the arguments that had
been put forth in behalf of the preservation of our boundaries and to demonstrate
to everybody interested that the people of
the Territories will not agree to give away
an inch of territory. We want it all — to
become the most powerful and most prosperous province of the Dominion. It was
not necessary then to go into a question
of provincial establishment, That point,
as the premier had stated, depended upon
whather the Federal authorities granted
us enough money to carry on our business
witnout becoming a province. We should
not seek full provincial responsibilities
until every means had been exhausted to
get proper recognition without it. It may
be that progress is not as rapid as we
would like, yet our affairs are being man
aged economically and in the best interests of the people, and it was well to get
safe and sure foundations laid before
commencing the superstructure. He did
not expect a long debate but would like
to hear the Members express themselves
on this subject.
In reply to a question by Mr. Maloney,
the Attorney-General stated that by the
definition of the North-West Act, the
North-West Territories embrace the country right to the North Pole, including
the Yukon.
Dr. PATRICK said that some years ago
he was an elector in Ontario, when an attempt was made to interfere with the western
boundary of that province. The upshot was that the rights of the electors of
Ontario were respected, and the position
sustained that their boundaries should not
be changed against their wish. Later he
removed to the Territories with the purpose of making a home here, and he was
under the impression that by removal, he
had forfeited no right as an elector, that
he had possessed when in Ontario. The
people here possessed the same right to
have their wishes respected, and if any
change is to be made, our consent must
be gained. He well understood that certain rights of the Territories were held in
abeyance by the Federal authorities — but
no right was forieited. The Dominion
had the legal power in the matter of our
boundaries, just as the Imperial authorities have the legal right to deprive the Dominion
of Canada of any right held by
virtue of Imperial Statute. But it was
not a question of legality; it was a question cf policy, — a question of expediency
and of moral right. He asserted the right
of the people of the Territories to have
the boundaries of the country remain intact until they consented to alteration.
Mr. EAKIN said the question was
a live one in his district within the past
year, and after Mr. Greenway's speech at
Brandon the people were much excited
and alarmed. Those residing nearest to
the Manitoba boundary were the most
strenuously opposed to the proposal of
annexation, because they knew best the
burdens of the people of Manitoba. The
fact ist Manitoba was repeatedly asking
for larger subsidy showed that the province was not in satisfactory condition.
The boundary had once been extended
into the Territories, at a time when the
people were sparse, and there was no
doubt that Manitoba would like to secure
another extension to procure another section of the very best agricultural land in
Canada. He (Mr. Eakin) hai written to
Mr. Douglas, M.P., on the subject, who
returned reply that the Minister of Interior (Mr. Sifton) stated that no such change
would be contemplated unless a majority
of the people wished it. He could say
that he had never met a single ratepayer
who favored joining Manitoba.
Mr. HAULTAIN said that after the discussion which had taken place, both then
and on a previous day, it was not necessary for him to say more that simply that
the resolution had his hearty support. It
expressed precisely what he had said on
Monday, and he hoped it would have
weight as being the opinion of the House,
even if the question was not a live one at
present. He hoped it would not become a
live question.
Dr. BRETT questioned the advisability
of committing the House to the important principle of one province. That was
not a question which had come prominently before the people, and had not been
discussed by the people. He would regret
to see any portion of the Territories taken
away, but pointed out that to take in the
whole north country would Inake an exceedingly large province. He noticed a reference
in the resolution to "administrative
purposes," and said he would like to know
just to what extent we were exercising jurlediction in the unorganized district. He
moved, seconded by Mr. Bannerman, to
insert the words "or provinces" in the
resolution, which, he said, would not impair its force.
Mr. BANNERMAN said there was
quite as strong feeling in Alberta, at least
in Calgary, against being tacked on to
East Assiniboia, as there was in East Assiniboia against being tacked on to Manitoba.
He did not like motions to be sprung
on the House in the way that this one
was. The question should be discussed
in a general election campaign to ascertain the feeling of the people.
Mr. AGNEW thought with Mr. Bannerman that the feeling of the people was not
well enough known to enable the House
to express an opinion on the question of
provinces — whether there should be one
or more. The people in Saskatchewan
were not at one on the subject. Personally he was against Manitoba taking any
of our territory. He suggessed to strike
out the words "as a province" in the
resolution.
Mr. ROSS said the hon. Member for
Whitewood he thought might well be
congratulated upon his resolution. There
was no doubt that in the eastern part of
the Territories there was very strong
feeling in opposition to the suggestion
made some time ago by the Premier of
Manitoba. That the people of Manitoba
should wish to take a portion of this
country was very natural. Manitoba was
a small province, and unfortunately had
made a very bad bargain in what was
known as the Better Terms agreement.
The people conducting the affairs of that
province, he believed, were not so desirous
of getting more territory, as they were to
get opportunity to make a new deal with
the Dominion. To make new terms, they
would have to show new conditions. If
they got an extension of territory, they
would probably be enabled to make a new
deal. We could sympathise with Manitoba, but not to the extent of giving that
province our territory. Manitoba no doubt
desired the change, but he (Mr. Ross) did
not think the change would ever be made.
In fact it would not be to the political
irterest of the men in power in Manitoba
to take in a portion of East Assinibona
against the wish of the people. In place
of the weak O; position they have now,
they would find that the representatives
sent by the annexed portion would oppose
the Government to a man. No man
could be elected in the annexed territory
to support any men instrumental in having their territory withdrawn and given
to Manitoba. The Federal authorities
too would think well before taking such
step. They, too, at times had to reckon
with and appeal to the people, and they
were not likely to appeal with success if
they so acted against the with of a large
number of people. No matter what was
the political complexion of the people,
the people of the North-West Territories
would disapprove by votes of any such action as involved in the Manitoba Premier's
suggestion. Another point which would
tend to do away with any Federal desire
in this direction, was the fact that Manitoba of late had not been a very happy
family; certain people there believed
they had not been fairly treated, and
there would be objection on the part of
people not residents of the Territories,
to the extension scheme. The hon Member for Banff was fearful that the House
would give any expression in favor of one
province. He had two provinces on the
brain, and whenever he got a chance he
never failed to ring in an amendment.
They need not discuss that question at
this time. The question was as to whether Manitoba should get a portion of our
territory. The other question could be
discussed by the people when it becomes a live issue. That time may very
speedily arrive if the Territories do not
succeed otherwise in obtaining the necesaary money to properly carry on the Government.
When the time comes they
could and would discuss the question of
one province or two provinces. Personally he always favored the idea of one
province and had yet heard no argument
to alter his conviction. It was an erroneous idea that a large province could not
be well conducted. With the telegraph
lines and railways, he believed the whole
country from Lake Superior to the Rocky
Mountains might very well be conducted
by one administration. When they looked
at Ontario's diversity of interests and resources — timber, minerals, fisheries and
agriculture — they surely would see the
absurdity of using the argument of diversity of interests against the idea of form
ing the Territories into one province, and
he hoped he would never hear that argument advanced again. Respecting the
statement of the Member for East Calgary
that the people there objected to be
"tacked on" to Assinibola, he (Mr. Ross)
thought he must be speaking for himself,
or for a very limited number of people in
Calgary; because he had visited that
locality, and talked with people up there,
and never found indication of such feeling He did not believe that Alberta as a
whole had any such feeling. There had
at one time been a little grumbling at
Calgary, and a certain number of men
with very large ideas had wanted to have
a province formed at once. Their chief
idea, judging by their expressions, was
that they should gain power to borrow
money. In my opinion, said Mr. Ross,
these men were not such as it would be
desirable to vest with any large borrowing
power in behalf of a province. He contended that until such time as the Territories
had gained from the Dominion all
that we are entitled to, and all that can
be expected, they had no right to consider
the question of gaining borrowing power.
After they had got their rights from Ottawa, and found that they had need to borrow,
then and not until then, would they
have right to borrow.
Mr. SIMPSON agreed entirely with
the resolution, but his own opinion was
that, when the time came for provincial
erection, the eastern portion would be
given to Manitoba.
Mr. MEYERS supported the resolution
and said the people of his district were
strongly opposed to the Manitoba suggestion.
Mr. CLINKSKILL was sorry that for
once he was compelled to disagree with
Dr. Brett. He said the desirability for
one strong province was so great, that the
resolution should clearly contemplate one
province, and he would oppose the
amendment as indicating that any idea of
other possibility was entertained. The
diversity of resources was the best argument for a large province. It was the
familiar case of the bundle of sticks
Separated they were weak. Joined they
were strong. The resolution might leave
a doubt as to their wish to have full jurisdiction in the northern portion. They
wanted it all — in all the country — Yukon
and right up to the pole.
This individual participated in:
