1
THE LEADER
REGINA, N.W.T. THURSDAY MORNING, MAY 10 1900.
FUTURE OF
THE TERRITORIES
Continuation of Mr. Haultian's
Speech on the Territorial
Position.
THE HOUSE PROROGUED.
partial amelioration of otherwise impossible financial conditions and will
ask you to take action leading to the
earliest practicable solution of Territorial and administrative problems. In
accordance with the promise practically made to the House by the government in that
portion of the speech the
resolution which he moved, seconded
by his colleague, Mr. Ross, had been
placed on the order paper. He would
not attempt to occupy much time in.
PRELIMINARY REMARKS.
though in a matter dealing with so
many different points, involving so
many and such varied topics — each
one worthy of a speech in itself — any
remarks he must make would be long
and he asked the indulgence of that
House in that respect. The remarks in
themselves would not be particularly
original in themselves: but he was going to introduce the most important
subject the House had ever had before
it, and he was doing this in order to
elicit discussion, not only in the House
but in the country: and he hoped the
references he should give, the citations
he should make, and the sources of information he should indicate would
help in the future discussion of the
question, as well as point out where
any one would be able to get information on this very important subject.
The resolutions themselves were largely historical. They were taken almost
exclusively in their very words from
the public documents. They dealt
with the
HISTORY OF THE TERRITORIES
in a very concise way and gave in a
few pages the history of the Territories
since their acquisition by Canada. They
dealt also to some extent with the history of the Dominion, and so dar as his
argument went, with the colonial policy followed out by the Imperial Government, especially
in regard to their
lands. The object of the resolution
was to introduce the subject within the
realm of discussion. It was not a subject that could be settled in a day: not
one that the House could settle at all,
perhaps unfortunately: or one that
could be settled in the immediate future: but in any event before it was
settled it required the fullest discussion. He would not make any further
remark as to whether the time was oppotune for the introduction of a resolution of
this sort. He would try to
develop that in the course of his
speech. So he would simply begin at
the beginning and take up the resolution clause by clause. The resolution
in the "be it resolved" parts dealt with
two phases of the buisness. First it
asked for the fullest enquiry into the
position of the territories, financial
and otherwise, and to cause action to
be taken for the present and immediate
welfare and the good government of the
Territories. The Assembly was a practical House. It had to deal with the
practical buisness of this country sa
they found it today, doing buisness
as it came up. They had the duty imposed on them, not of theorising as regarded the
future, but to deal with the
present. While they talked about
THE FUTURE
made propositions as to what
they would have at a future date, they
must remember that their buisness was
to deal with affairs as they come up
from day to day. Therefore the necessity for some resolution and some
comments by this House on the present and immediate future was just as
important as any buisness the House
had to do, and for which it was elected.
The first recitals in the resolution were
historical. Seven or eight of them
were plain statements of actual facts
taken from public documents. The
first recital pointed out that by the
British North America Act of 1867
power was given on request by address to admit Rupert's land and the
North-West Territory into the Union. The
House would notice that running
through all these recitals there was
a certain consistent idea. He wanted
to impress upon the House the continuous chain of reference to the British
North America Act, the analogy that
existed between the Territories and the provinces: which made up the chain of
argument that pointed most clearly to
the duty of the Dominion Government
and Parliament in regard to this country. With regard to this first recital, it
was founded on the resolutions of
THE QUEBEC CONFERENCE.
It was the resolution of the Fathers
of Confederation and upon which was
founded the Confederation Act. He
would call attention to the Quebec resolutions, an important document, that
it would be well for every hon. gentleman to look into when considering this
subject. The resolutions passed at the
Quebec conference showed that it was
not for the benefit of the people of this
country that confederation was established, it was for the development of
the trade of the great west on the seaboard and it was regarded as a subject
of the greatest importance, not to the
Territories but to the confederated
provinces, that the great west should
be opened up, and communication established between Eastern Canada and
British Columbia and Vancouver. He
would leave the first recital at that
point for the present. It simply pointed out the reason it was desirable
the Northwest should be acquired by
Canada, and communication opened
up with it: viz, not for the benefit of
the Territories but for the development
of the trade of the provinces. The second recital showed that the necessary
addresses had been presented from the
Parliament of Canada asking for Rupert's Land and the Noth-West Territories to be
united in Canada. These
addresses of the Parliament of Canada
were important the date of them is
December 1867 because they were
from the first parliament after confederation was completed and showed the
reason why Rupert's Land and the
North-West Territory should be taken
into the union. The Union, so said
the addresses, would promote the prosperity of the Canadian people and conduce to
the advantages of the whole
Empire, by extending westward to the
Pacific Ocean. The addresses spoke of
the development of the minerla wealth,
the extension of means of intercourse
as being dependent upon a stable government in the maintenance of law and
order in the Territories. A large population of British subjects were inhabiting these
Territories, and it was considered that the welfare of this population of political
institutions bearing
analogy to those that existed in the
several provinces of the Union. These
were the three reasons given by the
joint addresses of the Parliament of
Canada. Again, he would repeat that
the reasons were, not for the benefit of
this country, but for the prosperity of
the Canadian people and incidentally
only in a sense were the people of this
country mentioned. He now came to
the third recital. For the purpose of
carrying out the arrangement it was
necessary to have possession of the
lands of
THE HUDSON'S BAY COMPANY.
The Hudson's Bay Company's title
had always been a matter of discussion. It had always been an open
question whether they possessed Territorial rights over all they claimed. He
would not go into this subject as it wasÂ
one that would involve a very long argument, and if any member of the
House wished to look into the subject
a little more fully he should read the
report of Sir. Jacques Cartier and the
Hon. Mr. McDougall, who were the
delegates from Canada to England
when the negotiations were going on,
when incidentally the Hudson Bay
Company's title was very fully discussed, in the litigation in the celebrated
Ontario boundaries case. Well, it was
on the action taken under the Rupert's
Land Act 1868, that a surrender of the
Hudson's Bay Company of its rights to
the Dominion of Canada took place,
and the Dominion claimed the absolute
title to the Lands of this North-West
country in consequence of this. It had
been said over and over again when
the Territories made any claim, "Oh,
we bought you." It might, however,
be that the amount paid was not a
purchase price, but was in settlement
of claims that existed, however, it was
said the North-West had nothing to do
with these lands within their bounds,
but if the lands of the Hudson's Bay
Company had been bought and paid
for, it must be remembered that all
the Hudson's Bay Company's lands
were so parted with. It was not only
the provincial districts that now formed the Territories,but Athabasca,
Mackenzie and the Islands, Keewatin,
a portion of what was now Ontario,
Ungava, and a large portion now in
the province of Quebec. So when the
question came up as a practical question, as to what rights were obtained
by the payment of the $1,500,000 to the
Hudson's Bay Company there would
be the still larger question: against
which portion of that very large area
was it to be charged? He would not
dwell upon that at present, except to
point out that the way the Dominion
Government was keeping its books at
present, the whole of that amount was
written up against the diminishing
area of the North-West Territories. He
came now to recital No. 4. He simply
mentioned the recital just then for the
purpose of trying always to keep in
view that when the Parliament of
Canada asked to have the Dominion
extended westward, one of the grounds
was that the welfare of the people
of these Territories would be
largely enhanced by the foundation of political institutions,
similar to those in the provinces; and
he wished just now to lay stres upon
this fact that throughout the whole
history of the question, there is a consistent statement of intention and
motive to deal with this country in a
way analagous to the provinces. Recital 5 expressed the willingness of the
Parliament of Canada to assume the
duties and obligations of Government
and legislation as regarded the Territories. Recital No 6 dealt with the
ADMISSION INTO CONFEDERATION
of Rupert's Land and the North-West
Territories. This was accomplished
under an imperial order in council on
June 23, 1870, and it came into effect
July 13, 1870. Under that order in
council the Territories and Rupert's
Land were admitted into and became
part of the Dominion of Canada, and
had given to them power to legislate
for the welfare and good Government
of the country. Recital 7 went on to
say that by the British North America
Act of 1871, subsequently amended,
the Parliament of Canada was given
further power for time to time to make
provision for the administration of
peace, order and good Government of
any Territory not included in a province. By reading the two authorities
together it was found that only power given to the Territories was to legislate for
their future welfare and good
Government. He would again lay
stress upon the particular words, for
those words were really the only words
upon which was based the right to
deal with the question. Recital 8 was
one which would not necessitate his
making any argument upon. They
were here going away from public
documents and stating a fact, viz.,
that the Parliament of Canada had
created political institutions in the
Territories bearing a close analogy to
those which existed in the several provinces of the Dominion. He need
hardly take up time in making any
argument as to whether the Parliament had or had not done so. Simply
as a matter of reference he would refer
the House to the North-West Amendment Act of 1891 and subsequent
amendments to the North-West Territories Act, in which would be found
a full description of the powers given
to the North-West Legislature. For a
more ready means of reference the
North-West Territories Act as amended would be found at the beginning of
the volume of the Consolidated Ordinance of the North-West Territories.
He would now refer to Section 92 of
the British North America Act. To
put it shortly in order to show what a
very slight difference there was between the powers enjoyed by the Territories to-day
and those that were
enjoyed by the Provinces. He would
give in a very few words the exact
difference that existed. The Territories enjoyed nearly all the powers.
They had not the power to amend the
constitution, outside certain phases of
their election law. They could not
borrow money; they had no public
domains; they could not establish certain public institutions, such as hospitals,
asylums and either eleemosynary
institutions; and they could not administer the criminal law. That
he thought would suffice on that head.
In regard to recital 9 he might say at
the very beginning that the bases upon
which financial assistance was given to
the provinces were well defined in one
sense, but they were not exactly rigid.
There had been many departures in
some of the provinces. Under the
British North America Act the following provisions were made as provincial
revenues. A yearly grant from Domi
nion funds for the support of Government, varying from $80,000 in Ontario
to $35,000 in British Columbia; a per
capita grant for local purposes of 80
cents, as was set forth in the Quebec
resolutions. The assumption by the
Dominion of the indebtedness, and the
retention of all the provincial revenue
producing sources such as customs,
etc., were also part of the compact.
These were extended to British Columbia and Prince Edward Island when
they entered confederation, but were
varied when Manitoba entered as
would be shown later on. Such were
the provisions that were made at the
time of confederation for the revenue
of the provinces. He now came to
recital 10. They were departing a
little from pure history and getting
into controversial matter. The recital
said that the Territories were
ENTITLED TO FEDERAL ASSISTANCE.
to such federal assistance as would
bear due proportion and analogy to
that given to the provinces. Now the
expression in the recital, "in integral
part of the Dominion," had been used
simply for this purpose; the Territories had been created a political
entity; they had political powers as
separate as any province; they had a
legislature; and with the exceptions
he had already named, they stand
very much the same as a province,
and might fairly be called an integral
part of the Dominion. There was no
doubt of their having imposed upon
them the duties and obligations incidental to the political institutions
that had been given them. Their
legislature had been created with certain powers, and had imposed upon it
the duties and obligations arising
therefrom. The Parliament of Canada
assumed for themselves those duties
and obligations and had imposed them
upon the Territories. He did not
use the word "imposed" in any
complaining sense. The point he
wished to make in the recital
was that the Territories were
entitled, not only to be dealt with
analogously to the other provinces,
side by side with the institutions; but
that if they were to have the institutions, the duties and the obligations,
they were also entitled to an analogous
and proportionate amount of financial
assistance for so doing. That seemed
to him to be a perfectly fair deduction
to be made from the position and would
commend itself to the House. [Hear
hear.] In the memorials from the
Assembly in 1892 and 1896, and the
memorials that had been sent up from
time to time by the Executive Committee the same arguments had been
forcibly made, in regard to recitals 11
and 12, he did not think it would be
necessary from him to give any evidence
or to make any arguments that repeated representations had been made
for just and equitable financial assistance, or that they had been made in
the right way. All the assistance necessary had been called in, yearly
representations had been made with a
view of obtaining just and equitable
financial assistance. That would be
agreed to by every member of the
House. [Hear, hear.] The results of
those representations could be seen
in the journals of their House and in
the Appropriation Acts of the dominion Parliament. These would be
standing evidence that the Territories
never had received a sufficient amount
of money. Recital 13 went on to say
that it was desirable a basis should be
established upon which the claims of
the Territories might be settled and
agreed upon. This, also, was a statement that needed no long argument of
his to establish. A satisfactory basis
of a permanent character, a basis for a
certain number of years would be a
good thing for carrying on their
business. He would again refer to the
journals of the legislature's proceedings and to the memorials from the
House. It would be seen then that
from time to time the fixing for a term
of years had been one of the prominent features. In 1892 the time asked to
be fixed was four years, and in 1896
there was a similar request. There
had, however, been no such dealing
with the question either by Federal Government or the Federal
Parliament. He need not tell the
House, these were incontrovertable
facts. He now came to the resolution
itself
"THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED."
This (No. 14) dealt with their present
position and their immediate future.
He would like the House to understand
that there had never been at any
time any tendency on the part of the
Territories to stand still and theorise,
or to balance on a tight rope. He
thought the policy of the Government
had been a careful and gradual development both of their institutions
and financial requirements. They had
from time to time obtained a little
more money and a little more power.
At no time, had they or could they,
come to a sudden stop and mark time.
The work of the North-West must be
carried on, the intentions of the legislature should be carried on, and they
should not modify their requests, but
should use to the full extent all the power
they already possessed, and the nearer
they got to what the law could give
them as to provincial rights, the more
close the analogy already insisted upon,
the less felt would be the wrench, the
less dangerous would be the jump,
when the point was reached. One
thing that would result from a definite
and permanent basis was that it would
do away with the much spoken of
annual
PILGRIMAGE TO OTTAWA.
He had always thought it was an undesirable thing, an undignified thing
that the representatives of that House
had to go to Ottawa asking for what
they considered their right. But such
excursions had to be made. The circumstances required that the fullest information
should be placed before the
Dominion government, when they did
not know from year to year that they
should obtain as much as in the preceding year, and that any increase
must depend upon the amount of representation made. So long as that
state of affairs existed, just so long
would some one have to go down to
Ottawa and press the claims of the
Territories upon the Federal Government. The next advantage of having
their financial affairs settled for two
ears or a number of years, would be
that there would be no speculation
from year to year as to the amount of
money they would have to spend. An
opinion had been expressed as to the
time for the sitting of the House. It
should meet early in the year, the
earlier the better, and more convenient. In present circumstances, if the
Dominion parliament had not begun
to sit, there would be no indication of
what the Territories would receive. In
what position would they be in framing their estimates? They would not
know what they were going to get, and [...]
6 THE LEADER, THURSDAY MORNING, MAY 10, 1900.
WEDNESDAY, May 2.
THE FUTURE OF THE TERRITORIES.
SPEECH BY MR. HAULTAIN.
The House re-assembled shortly before three o'clock, and precisely at that
hour,
Mr. Haultain rose and was received
with cheers. He moved the following
resolution:
1. Whereas by the British North
American Act 1866 it was, among other
things, enacted that it should be lawful for the Queen, by and with the
advice of Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council, on Address from
the Houses of the Parliament of Canada, to admit Rupert's Land and the
North-Western Territory, or either of
them into the Union on such terms
and conditions in each case as should
be in the Addresses expressed and as
the Queen should think fit to approve
subject to the provisions of the said
Act;
2. And whereas by an Address from
the Houses of the Parliament of Canada
Her Majesty was prayed to unite
Rupert's Land and the North-Western
Territory with the Dominion of Canada;
3. And whereas, in order to further the
petition of the Parliament of Canada,
Her Majesty, under the authority of
the Rupert's Land Act 1896, accepted a
surrender from the Governor and
Company of Adventurers of England
trading into Hudson's Bay of all the
lands, territories, privileges, liberties,
franchises, powers and authorities
whatsoever granted or purported to be
granted by certain Letters Patent
therein recited to the said Company in
Rupert's Land;
4. And whereas in the said address
it was represented to Her Majesty, as
a reason for the extension of the Dominion of Canada westward, that the
welfare of the population of these
Territories would be materially enhanced by the formation therein of political
institutions bearing analogy, as far as
circumstnces will admit, to those
which existed in the several provinces
then forming the Dominion;
5. And whereas the Houses of the
Parliament of Canada by their said
Address expressed to Her Majesty
their willingness to assume the duties
and obligations of government and
legislation as regards the Territories;
6. And whereas in pursuance and exercise of the powers vested in the Queen
by the aforesaid Acts, Her Majesty, by
and with the advice of Her Most Honourable Privy Council, ordered and
declared that from and after the fifteenth day of July, 1870, Rupert's Land
and the North-Western Territory
should be admitted into and become
part of the Dominion of Canada, and
granted power and authority to the
Parliament of Canada to legislate for
the future welfare and good government of these Territories;
7. And whereas by the British North
America Act 1871 the Parliament of
Canada was further given power from
time to time to make provision for
the administration, peace, order and
good government of any Territory not
for the time being included in any
Province;
8. And whereas under the several
authorities so given the Parliament
of Canada has created political institutions in these Territories bearing a
close analogy to those which exist in
the several Provinces of the Dominion;
9. And whereas by the Confederation
compact the Provinces which formed
the Dominion on the fifteenth day of
July 1870, were furnished with the
means of carrying on local self government upon certain well defined bases;
10. And whereas the Territories being
an integral part of the Dominion, and
having imposed upon them the duties
and obligations incidental to the
political institutions which have been
given to them and which said duties
and obligations the Parliament of
Canada has declared its willingness to
assume, are entitled to such Federal
assistance for their maintenance as
will bear due proportion and analogy
to that given to other portions of the
Dominion for similar purposes;
11. And whereas repeated representa
tions have been made in various ways
to the Government of Canada with a
view to obtaining just and equitable
financial assistance towards providing
for the proper and effective administration of local affairs in the Territories
and for the public necessities of their
rapidly increasing population:
12. And whereas such representations
have been met by intermittent and insufficient additions to the annual grant
the provision so made by the Parliament of Canada never bearing any
adequate proportion to the financial
obligations imposed by the enlargement and development of the political
institutions created by itself;
13. And whereas it is desirable that a
basis should be established upon which
the claims of the Territories to suitable
financial recognition may be settled
and agreed upon;
14. Therefore be it resolved that an
humble address to His Excellency the
Governor General be adopted by this
House praying him that he will be
pleased to cause the fullest enquiry to
be made into the position of the Territories, financial and otherwise, and to
cause such action to be taken as will
provide for their present and immediate welfare and good government, as
well as the due fulfillment of the duties
and obligations of government and
legislation assumed, with respect of
these Territories, by the Parliament of
Canada;
15. And be it further resolved that,
whereas by the British North America
Act 1871 it was (amongst other things)
enacted that the Parliament of Canada
may from time to time establish new
Provinces in any Territories forming
for the time being part of the Dominion of Canada but not included in any
Province thereof, and may, at the time
of such establishment, make provision
for the constitution and administration
of such Province, His Excellency be
also prayed to order enquiries to be
made and accounts taken with a view
to the settlement of the terms and conditions upon which the Territories, or
any part thereof shall be established as
a Province, and that before any such
Province is established opportunity
should be given to the people of the
Territories through their accredited
representatives of considering, and discussing such terms and conditions.
Mr. Haultain said that in the speech
from the Throne with which the present session was opened there occurred
the following sentence: "It is gratifying for me to be able to inform you
that the Federal Government has proposed to Parliament now in session a
moderate increase to your annual
grant, and a large special vote for the
purpose of restoring public works destroyed by the floods. In spite of this
very substantial increase to the revenue, my government can only look
upon it as affording a temporary and
10
THE LEADER, THURSDAY MORNING, MAY 10, 1900.
THE LEGISLATURE.
even if they had private assurances,
they could not act before the Federal
House met. If they did questions
would be asked in the Dominion House
and there might be embarassment and
inconvenience. If, however the financial grant were on a fixed basis, the
Territorial House could meet at a date
most convenient to itself, because it
would be easy to frame the estimates.
Now the first resolution No. 14 dealt
with the present position of the Territories. The House was confronted
with the actual position as it existed.
They had to deal with the question
not only on its financial side, for there
were other sides, there was the constitutional side. No matter whether they
got their finances on a permanent basis, for two years, or ten years, there
were certain other things necessary
for the proper carrying on of the business of the House. They had to, to extend, extension
was going on as population increased, and conditions became
more complicated. Whatever the
postponement of the financial questions
however long a time it might be, it was
the duty of the Assembly, an absolute
necessity to ask for an extension of
their power, not in ten years, or two
years, but now, immediately. Cheers.
They had not the power to regulate
their own constitution. They ought to
have it. There was no reason why
they should not have it. There were
several points involved that made it
difficult to pass election laws, and they
had no power to disqualify even a
member of their own House. Again
they ought to have the power to administer criminal justice. There were
two reasons why they should not: there
were many reasons why they should.
The Territories administered the civil
law, and under the present system
practically two sets of officials had to
be kept up in the country. The Crown
agency should be done by the Attorney General. Then they should
have certainly, and had often asked
for the control of the registry offices.
The important power to legislate in regard to property and civil rights that
the Assembly already had was practically taken away by the Dominion
Government dealing with land titles.
One every side the Territories met with
difficulties in regard to land titles, and
if they had the right to deal with property, including land, they could make
many improvements in general
legislation. He believed that if this
additional power were granted, if their
land titles system were local, they
would reduce very much the number
of fees charged for various services
performed. Now, it might be asked
why come down with a resolution upon this question at this time? Why
should it be put so formally as by an
address to the Governor General? He
would say that the treatment hitherto
accorded by the Dominion Government
to the memorials and the resolutions
already sent, had been such as to make
it undesirable to continue. That line of
somewhat internally dealing with the
subject. They had arrived at a time
when they were confronted with
A VERY PRACTICAL NECESSITY,
and the House should in the most formal way, not satisfied with the treatment dealt
out to the Territories, ask
that its financial claims be enquired
into. (Hear, hear.) That was all he
proposed to say in regard to the first
resolution. It spoke for itself. It
dealt altogether with the practical
necessities of the position: it dealt
with them as they were. It was generally admitted by every member of
the house that more money was needed, and more power: and there could be
no objection to the strongest demands
from the quarter from which alone
they must derive both the money and
the power. (Cheers.) He now come to
the second resolution. (No. 15.) Before
taking up the resolution he would
simply ask the House to go over the
recitals which led up to it. They showed and suggested the development of
the method of action. The intention
by Parliament to give institutions to
this country, the restriction that
anything done should be subject to the
British North American Act after
the country was acquired for
the benefit, be remembered,
of eastern markets and eastern
trade: the consistent method
which had been followed to establish
institutions of the provinces: all these
running through every document,
though every act of Parliament, and
through ever official statement made;
all showed that the institutions of the
North-West Territories should bear
analogy to those of the provinces, and
be dealt with under the British North
American Act and the principle underlying. A question would be raised at
the very outset: How long should the
gradual development of their present
institutions to go on? Well, he should
say it should go on until the question
was settled. (Hear, hear.) To begin
with he would point out that the
institutions should be as nearly exact
as possible to the provincial institutions. Their present position was an
impossible one. They had
EXHAUSTED EVERY MEANS
of obtaining an increase in their grants.
(To be continued next week.)
PROROGATION.
Precisely at half past three on Friday afternoon a trumpet flourish announced the
arrival of Lieutenant
Governor Forget to prorogue, the
Assembly. His Honor entered the
House, accompanied by Supt. Strickland, N.W.M.P., as aide de camp, and
having given assent to the bills passed by the Legislature prorogued the
House by the following speech:
Mr. Speaker and gentlemen of the
Legislative Assembly:In relieving
you of your legislative duties. I desire
to thank you for the diligent consideration which you have given to the matters to
which your attention has been
directed. I am glad to observe the
unanimity with which the proposals
submitted by my Government for
meeting the present and immediate
necessities, as well as the future position and condition of these Territories,
have met your approval. I thank you
for the supplies granted for the Public
Service, and while regretting the sad
occurrence at Ottawa and Hull, I am
glad to observe that you have given
practical expression to the sympathetic feelings of the people of the Territories
for the suffering of our fellow
countrymen in those cities. I now bid
you farewell in full confidence that
your labors will conduce to the welfare
of the Territories.
Mr. G. H. V. Bulyea, Territorial
Secretary, then announced the prorogation and the proceedings terminated.
1
THE LEADER.
REGINA, N.W.T., THURSDAY MORNING, MAY 17, 1900.
THE N. W. LEGISLATURE
FINISH OF PREMIER'S SPEECH.
Railway Exemptions, School Lands,
Justice to the Territories.
Banff Park.
(Continued from last week.)
However well disposed a government
might be the conditions that existed in
Parliament to-day would prevent any
adeqtate amount being given to them.
He made that statement: he believed
that was the case. So long as the Territories remained in a dependent position so
long would it be impossible for
them to secure even that adequate
recognition without which they could
not carry on. The North-West had
gone through the preliminary stage.
They had been founding their institutions for a number of years, and they
had fairly well exhausted the power
that had been given them. They had
founded their institutions, and had
got out of their foundations. The time
had arrived for them to begin the superstructure. (Cheers.) They had had
the foundation well; they had exhausted the powers they possessed; and
although he would not say that further
progress was impossible, yet he did
say that progress to a large amount
was not possible, and to develop was
was not possible under the existing
institutions. (Hear hear.) They had,
as the hon. member for Yorkton had
said, grown out of their clothes. He
did not believe their present institutions were suitable to their present
conditions. The question arose, why
should their jurisdiction be limited?
They had been accorded very urgely
the duties of a province. The part
given was of more importance than
the part witheld. They had arrived at
a time when something more was
necessary, some larger power given,
and then left to work out their own
salvation. They could not look to the
Dominion Government. The surrounding conditions would prevent any Government from
having a free hand. It
could never be done satisfactorily until
their institutions were so developed
that they were put in a position to
develop their own resources. Hitherto
their Government's work had been
mere administration. Having but a
small vote they had been deprived of
doing more than looking after the
interests of the country. They wanted
now to go on and develop its resources.
The question was: What should we
do? Should we simply stand still?
He gathered from the expression of
the House that they should never
stand still. They must ask for further
powers and demand more money.
Why should not they
TAKE THE ACTUAL PLUNGE?
When they had arrived at the actual
point, both the financial point, and the
constitutional point, they ought not to
be diffident about the further step.
That step was to go to the very limit
allowed by the British North America
Act. Even if to-morrow they were
formed into a province or provinces,
apart from the financial question to be
settled, he did not fancy that any
person in the whole Territories would
feel that a large revolution had occurred, because after all the provincial
institution, as it touched the every day
life of the people was much the same
as at present. They were driven and
driven by necessity, both by their financial conditions and constitutional
position, to consider the assumption of
provincial institutions. The question
was, within what time? He did not
think it would be desirable to
involve the House in a discussion
as to fixing the actual date of
an event they had no power to
bring about. After all, they had not
the fixing of the date and any expression of the opinion of the House on
the subject would only have weight
in proportion to the unanimity with
which it was expressed. But there
was a certain date within which it
could not be taken, but within which
they could be getting ready. (Hear
hear). Next year there will be
A CENSUS TAKEN.
No action could be taken until the
census was taken. The population of
the country was the basis of the per
capita grant.
Mr. Haultain—Nothing was impossible. The Federal Parliament could
bring in a bill tomorrow and make a
dozen provinces if it so wished. Nothing was impossible, but it would be
absurd for any parliament to attempt
to lay down the terms and conditions
until a census had been taken, as population was their basis. More than that!
It was rather a significant coincidence
that the term of the present legislature ran out in 1902. They would have
completed their term then and if
things went along in their ordinary
course the census would be completed
just before the Assembly had completed
its labors. A third point of the coincidence was that there would be a new
Dominion Parliament between now
and then. All of these facts falling
together seemed to him to establish,
not only a significant time, but
AN OPPORTUNE TIME.>
The time was not too long. Some
things had to be understood, so many
opinions to be expressed, so many
claims to be enforced, that the short
space of two years was not a bit too
long for the full ussion of the subject, for its consideration by every
member of that House and every man
in the North-West Territories. As he
had already said, although the time
was good, still the mere fact that they
knew perfectly well no provinee or
provinces could be established this
year or next year, and before such province or provinces could be established,
it would certainly be in the interest of
the Territories, and of any portion of
them that the fullest consideration
should be given to all the important
subjects he had indicated. There was
another point that might be raised in
regard to this subject. What right
had they to act now, what brief or
what mandate had they to express
even a theoretical opinion? It might
be said they had no authority from the
people to plunge them into the discussion. He would say, however, that it
was not a new subject. There had
been sufficiently clear indications that
it would be a subject for discussion in
the Assembly, though not with the
view of making a deliberate statemeat
as to whether they would have it or
not. The subject involved too many
questions for that. Bet it was brought
in reply, before the House last summer and it
was a theme of discussion from one
end of the country to the other. He
himself referred to the subject in a
speech he made to the House in September 1898, shortly before the general
election. He referred to the matter
when introducing the estimates. Then
again he need only refer to the general election of 1898 when he made much
the same statement as he had made in
the House. He stated that the time
had arrived, and would be the lastÂ
work of the new legislature. Therefore, he now repeated, if they needed
any mandate for taking the step he
asked the House to take, that mandate had been fairly indicated. After
all, they were not assuming on the
part of the people of the Territories the
right to make an agreement. They
simply asked that negotiations should
be opened. Indeed, the main result that
would follow from the resolution
would be the further discussion that
would take place throughout the country. The people needed to be brought
face to face with the question: they
needed to have explained to them the
actual position in which they were. If
nothing else resulted from the resolution than the discussion throughout
the country, the necessary education,
in a sense, in regard to these important rights, would be in itself a sufficient justification
for beginning the
discussion at the present time. But it
was
A LIVE QUESTION TO-DAY.
It was a practical question. Under
what institutions were they going to
live and carry on the development of
the country? The question had been
discussed during the last few months,
and it was discussed to-day. All over
the Territories the subject was looming
up larger than any other. The whole
country was considering it, and was
not opposing it. It had been said that
if a poll were taken on the question
seven out of ten would vote down an
autonomy resolution. Perhaps they
would if they did not understand it.
But at any rate the country was not
opposed to the discussion of the provincial idea. What it was opposed to
was a radical and immediate change.
The people were somewhat alarmed by
the speech he had made at Yorkton.
They thought the direct result of the
policy there enunciated would be
direct taxation, the establishment of
municipalities, and a large number of
other things held up as bugbears
wherever, the question of a province
was raised. There was no necessity
for any such alarm as that. If a certain amount of misapprehension existed it was
their duty to remove it, not
by shrinking from it but by discussing
it: not by dangling these bugbears,
direct taxation and municipalities, but
by an intelligent discussion of what
would be the only financial terms they
could reasonably expect. He had
always made a proviso of proper
financial terms. He would never consent to the establishment of a province
under such terms as were
Olacc
GRANTED TO MANITOBA.
They would be better as they now
were than that. No, he had always
coupled with any proposal, that adistinct
understanding must be given in regard
to proper, means to carry out both
duties and obligations. There should
be no misapprehension in regard to
the matter, but no desire to plunge
the country into it without a settlement of these important questions.
He had no intention of rushing into
direct taxation or municipal institutions. With the powers they had possessed for
fourteen years, direct taxation and municipal institutions could
not be used except in the modified
sense they had used them already in
their legislation. No legislation would
plunge the people into these institutions. It was a matter for the people
themselves. Now, his principal argument for the immediate taking up of
this question with a view to its settlement and discussion, was that they
must make progress in this country,
and without a change that would
almost be impossible. Education was
the instrument of progress, and without discussion progress would not take
place.
Mr. Haultain continued by saying
that he now came back to the
resolution. "Whereas parliament
had certain powers." Remember that
parliament had power to deal with the
[?] drives before
[?] in the
position of self governing colonies, like
Prince Edward Island and British Columbia, which could please themselves
whether they federated or not and
could dictate their own terms. The
Territories were simply the
CREATURE OF THE DOMINION
parliament, and without reference to
the Territories, were it so inclined, it
could make a province or provinces.
But they did claim as a moral right to
be  treated in analogy to the other
provinces; they claimed the right
to discuss and negotiate; and if
they had not the power to
dictate terms, or to be one
party to an agreement, they claimed
to be treated in the same way as citizens
in other parts of the Dominion were
treated. The resolution had left out
anything that could be called the controversial side of the question. The
question whether there should be one,
two, three or a dozen provinces was
not for them to discuss. It was one of
the most difficult things in drawing
that resolution to so do it as to avoid
controversy. They might waste a
great deal of valuable time in discussing these controversial points, and yet
get no nearer a solution. He had, therefore, purposely refrained from putting
anything of a controversial nature
into the resolution. They said at once
that it was understood that parliament
had the power to do what they liked in
the matter, and they had the right to
do so without any consultation with
the people of the Territories. Again,
the Territories were not in the position
of a province seeking to enter confederation. Parliament had power to carve
the Territories out into as many provinces as it saw fit; but the House
could ask for an opportunity of impressing its views upon the Government. They did
say that their interests and their future were so much
bound up that they should at least
assert a moral right to negotiate and
discuss. For that reason the resolution
had been put in the way it was put so
as to keep out the controversial side of
the question. They did not wish to
theorize or indulge in an academic
question, or to present themselves as a
divided House, forated of little groups,
each one with its pet idea. Parliament would then say "These people do
not know what they want, they do
not help us in coming to a conclusion.
We will deal with it ourselves."
But he did say there were important
ides of the financial question and the
4
THE LEADER, THURSDAY MORNING MAY 17, 1900.
THE LEGISLATURE.
Continued from page 1
constitutional question that would effect
not only one province, if there were to
be one, but two or a half dozen, and
would effect them all equally. They
asked therefore for an enquiry and
that accounts should be taken. Why?
Because, as he had already said, the
basis on which the various constitutions of the several provinces were
formed at confederation had been
departed from in some cases, and they
might obtain more suitable conditions,
when any portion of he Territories
came to be formed into a province or
provinces. What constitution and
what Government should be given to
the people in this country? He would
ask the House to go back a little way.
He had traced the history how it came
about, what applications had been
made, what had been the results, and
how their treatment was to be analogous to those of the provinces. Now,
he would go back a little in the history
of the country. What was the actual
state of the people who were here before it was taken over by the Dominion. He would
ask the members to
refer to some letters written by the
Secretary of Sate for Canada in
1869, Mr. Joseph Howe. They would
be found in the special report of the
correspondence in regard to the North- West printed by order of parliament
in 1870. hey would there find corroboration of the position he had taken.
Now with regard to the constitutional
side of the resolution, he need say but
very little. The constitution of the
provinces was fixed by the British
North America Act, and following that
and he analogy that existed, they
might confidently expect that when
the province or provinces were made,
they would be accorded the same constitution. The most important side
of the question here was, what means
would be given to carry on the Government? Naturally in considering that
question they looked to the other provinces so that the inhabitants of this
portion of the Dominion might fairly
claim that when the question of financial assistance was considered, that
that financial assistance would bear
analogy and due proportion to that
of the provinces. He could see no
difference between these parts of the
Dominion and any other portion.
When people came to the North-West
they did not lose any portion of their
birthright: did not come here to be
treated in an entirely different way to
their fellow citizens. In accordance with
EVERY FEELING OF JUSTICE
and right, when they got the institutions similar financial assitance
should be given to carry on those institutions. Now, the first item given
was for the support of the goernment,
and the amounts were: Ontario, $80,000: Quebec, $70,000: Nova Scotia,
$60,000: New Brunswick, $50,000: British Columbia, $35,000. The amounts
therefore were not fixed. This of itself was an ample justification for the
enquiry and negotiation asked for by
the resolution. Were the Territories
to get the maximum $80,000 or the
minimum $35,000? In many portions
of the Dominion work was done by
municipal government, but here that
was not so. The Government did the
work, and in any grant to the Territories that should be taken into consideration.
There were reasons for a
liberal allowance on this very particular subject. Then there was a large
area and a sparse population. These
were reasons why they should have a
large allowance. Then there was the
per capita grant of 80 cents on the population. This allowance was given the
other provinces in the language of the
British North America Act, for local
purposes, and as a matter of fact it
was given under the Quebec resolutions,
and several reasons were advanced in
the confederation debates, one of which
was that it was for the giving up to
the Federal Government the provincial taxing powers, customs, duties, etc.
Now, this question opened up several
controversial sides, and that also sufficiently justified that an enquiry be
made and accounts taken. The basis
of the tax was population and in Manitoba the arrangement was to be readjusted to
population at certain fixed
periods. This arrangement was to
last until the population reached 400,000. This limit of 400,000 was fixed as
the basis upon which this suets should
be paid. He had never been able to
understand why such a limit should
be imposed. Why, if within the next
four or five years the 400,000 were exceeded, they should not be paid suets, a
head, he could not understand. That
was another reason why enquiry
should be made. The population in
the east was uniform, but it was not
so in the west. There had been a constant change in the proportions. He
could give figures to show this but it
was not necessary, as while the older
provinces had been stationary, New
Brunswick, for instance, in the west
they had been increasing by leaps and
bounds. Manitoba increased in a few
years 240 per cent,. and in a few years
the Territories would do the same.
Thus there would be a very large question to be settled. What should be
the basis of their per capita grant?
Should it be on a revision as in Manitoba, every two and a half years, and
with a limit of 400,000 or should they
not receive in proportion to their population whatever it might be. These
were open questions and justified the
resolution that enquiry should be made
and accounts be taken. He now came to
the next important subject:
THE QUESTION OF DEBT.
On this important matter he recommended hon. gentlemen to read
Hon. Alexander Galt's speeches during
the confederation debates. Mr. Galt
was minister of finance at the time,
and was one of the most eminent financiers they ever had in Canada and
one of the fathers of confederation.
The principle proceeded upon was that
as the Dominion assumed the debts of
the provinces that first entered confederation, then those that entered at
a subsequent date would be entitled to
a certain amount of rebate. Mr. Haultain also referred to the Quebec resolutions and
the British North America
Act on the subject, and strongly recommended hon. members to study
the sources he had indicated. As to
Manitoba, when it was created a province, she was given a certain rebate
for the debts that had been incurred
by the other provinces and assumed
by the Dominion at confederation, but
before Manitoba entered. He supposed that as they were taken into union
at the same date as Manitoba 1870,
they would be dealt with on the same
basis. Then the question arose as
to whether they should have
the five years census and
two and a half years readjustment as
they had in Manitoba. There seemed
to have been a faulty opinion as to the
debt charged against this country. He
had a document from the Department
of the Interior which showed that $3,800,000 were already charged up against
the Territories, and it included quite a
number of curious items. Thus there
was $19,000 for the construction of Fort
Garry road and Fort William road.
That was an item charge to the Territories for the benefit of the people of
this country. Then there was $8,000
more for the same road: $15,000 for a
canal in Manitoba: $27,000 for boats:
$!63,000 for exploring the Red river:
$10,100 for Red river rebellion: several
other items such as $84,000 and $23,000
for Fort Garry road and Fort William
road: and $45,000 for boats. These
were only a few of such items that
went to make up the $3,800,000 already
charged up against the Territories. He
thought that this justified the fullest
enquiry and the taking of accounts as
asked by the Territories. It was a
wonder, it seemed to him, that they
had not charged up against the Territories the wars of 1812-13(cheers), which
would be as appropriate. Everything
that could was being charged up
against the diminishing area of the
North-West Territories. He now came to
THE RAILWAY DEBT.
This was a most important side of
the discussion. In the year 1898 the
expenditure on railroads in the Dominion had reached $160,623,557. There
was an expenditure for lines wholly
within the provinces of $48,380,848.
Now, he supposed it would be perfectly reasonable for the representatives of the Territories
to say "We
should be allowed something in respect
of that." The Dominion had done
these works which were local in their
nature: the $48,380,848 was for purely
local lines in the provinces. Now,
these formed part of the federal debt.
Towards this debt the people of the
North-West Territories contributed
their share, man for man, with the
rest of the Dominion, as much as any
body else. And now note this also.
Quite a different policy had been
followed as regarded the railways in
the Territories. Instead of subsidising
them, except $3,000,000 in the case of
the Crow's Nest which was very largely
constructed in British Columbia, little
over 100 miles in the Territories and
the whole Dominion bearing its share,
as in the others, instead of subsidising them, the Dominion took
39,300,000 acres of land in the Territories in Manitoba and gave them to
the railways. Look for a moment at
the difference. In the provvinces the
Dominion shoulders the whole of the
$48,380,848, and the Territories were
helping pay for it: but for the lines in
Territories they gave the lands of the
Territories and no burden rested upon
the people of the provinces. It was
MANIFEST INJUSTICE
and unfairness. If they had to pay
their share of the railway debt in other
provinces, why should they not have a
certain allowance made in lieu of that
debt and of their lands taken away.
Surely that was sufficient to justify the
fullest enquiry and the taking of accounts. (Cheers.) Mr. Haultain then
dealt with the mineral royalties and
quoted Sir John. A. Macdonald, and
Hon. A. Galt to show that each province ought to have the power of
developing its own resources: and hon.
Geo. Brown in regard to the lands.
This, said Mr. Maultain was the most
important side of
THE CONFEDERATION COMPACT.
There would have never been any
Dominion of Canada if there had been
the giving up of the mines to the
federal government. The principle of
the claim to the lands was admitted.
Every one of the older provinces had
their lands, and Manitoba had a payment in lieu of them. One of the
reasons the C.P.R. was constructed
was because of a pledge given to British Columbia. There was not a line
within that province, and it agreed to
give a certain amount of its land for
the construction of the C.P.R. For
that reason and on that account the
Dominion paid British Columbia $100000 a year, which the people of the
North-West Territories helped to pay:
for that rocky belt along which the
line ran. In the case of the Territories
the whole land grant was simply made,
and the claim was that the federal
authorities own this country, and
dealt with it for Dominion purposes.
The question arose why should not
the Territories be granted a portion of
these lines? Why should any distinction he made between the Territories
and the provinces? It was claimed
the Dominion had purchased the lands
from the Hudson's Bay Company, and
for the benefit of the whole Dominion.
Well, when the Dominion got the
Hudson's Bay lands, it got all of them.
A portion now formed a part of the
province of Quebec: another portion
a part of the province of Ontario. The
lands in the east being part of the
bargain were also for the benefit of
the whole of the Dominion, of which
the Territories were entitled to
be considered. The Dominion claimed
"We bought you." Well, at any rate
if that be so, the Territories were paying their share of the money, and if
there was anything in the "we bought
you" doctorine, it was hardly fair to
make the North-West pay a portion of
the purchase money, and portion of
the interest upon it.
It being now 5:30 the House adjourned until evening.
EVENING SESSION.
Mr. Haultain resumed his speech at
eight o'clock. He said that when they
left the House that afternoon he was
discussing the important part that
public domains, lands, mineral, and
what an important item they were at
that period of the discussion. And
particularly what a very essential part
of the provincial revenue those lands
were, and what an important part they
would be in any negotiations for establishing a future province or provinces. He also
pointed out that the
British North America Act recognized
what an important part it was, and in
the negotitations subsequently this
principle was recognized: in the case
of Prince Edward Island, there was no
grant to them because they did not
have any public lands: in Manitoba
because the lands had been withdrawn
from them they received a grant in
lieu; in British Columbia a strip of
land belonging to them was given to
the C.P.R., and provinces was recompensed by an annuity of $100,000,
which the Territories were helping to pay. He then began to discuss
what the Dominion's claims to the
Territorial lands were. he had continued the argument to that point only,
as it would loom up large when the
establishment of public institutions
was coming on. At present, however,
the more practical side, the necessity
of change on practical lines, the question of their financial position, was
what they had to consider. The American precedent had been quoted by
the Dominion Government to show
it owned the land, because, when definite terms were accorded to Manitoba,
and presumably it would be the same
in the west when the time came, they
were able to show why the lands should
be withdrawn. The American precedent was the holding of the lands of [...]
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