Debate on the despatches resumed.
(Laughter.) We had heard a great deal about the Tenant League; but he believed that
nothing made tenant, or any other leagues, except bad government. Hon. Joseph Howe
had been frequently referred to in this debate; well he (Mr. McM.) did not think much
of him; if he had not been bought himself he had sold us about the land commission.
(Laughter.) With respect to the confederate members of the House, he (Mr. McM.) did
not wish to say as much. He had always been a Liberal himself. There was the hon.
leader of the Opposition—a red-hot confederate; but for all that he (Mr. McM.) did
not believe he would sell his country. However, supposing he were to turn round, we
would be glad to have him on our side. With respect to the hon. member for Charlottetown
(Mr. Brecken), it was said that he had changed his opinions from what they were at
the time he stood on the hustings. He (Mr. McM.) did not know whether it was so or
not. It had been said that on account of this change in his opinions, the hon. member
should resign; that would be too much to expect him to do; but if a majority of his
constituents were to ask him to give up his seat, he (Mr. McM.) believed the hon.
member had too much noble spirit about him not to comply with their request. He (Mr.
McM.) had not changed his opinions on confederation yet, but he might do so some day.
It would be natural to expect that some Antis would turn after the long speeches they
had heard from the other side of the House.
Confederation.
House in committee on the further consideration of despatches.
Mr. GREEN rose to speak a few words
on the all-important question of confederation, but felt himself unable to do
that justice to the subject which its importance demanded. It had been so
long before the committee, and so many
speeches had been made on it, that it
was almost impossible to find any new
matter; but as it was a question in
which great interests were involved, and
a very large extent of country concerned,
there migh be some points of interest
which had not yet been referred to. He
(Mr. G.) would first refer to the minutes
of Council, as in them reference was
made to the discontent prevailing in
New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, which
now formed part of the Dominion. It
had been said that as Nova Scotia did
not join the union, by the consent of the
people, it should now be freed from that
union, but according to the same argument, those counties of New Brunswick
that did not vote in favor of confederation should be freed. Those provinces
had been estranged so long, separated by hostile tariffs, having little or no
communication, no intercoloninl free
trade, that it could hardly be expected
that in so short a time, they would settle
down to the new order of things, and be
altogether contented. A great deal had
been said about the people of Canada—
their statesmen in particular had come
in for a large share of abuse during this
discussion, they had been represented as
almost unfit to govern the country. But
what were the facts of the case? Canada, before the union, was the most
enterprising and progressive of the Brit
254 PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 1870
ish American provinces. They had a
great deal to contend with; they had to expend large sums of money in opening up the
resources of the country, they had built most magnificent canals- the most magnificent
in the world.
Mr. GREEN.- The canals of Europe were mere ditches compared with those of Canada. They had
opened up those canals, which, with their great inland seas, would monopolize the
greatest part of the carrying trade of Canada, and also a very large portion of the
trade of the United States. It was stated by scientific men, that the Missouri and
Mississippi rivers were fast filling up, and when whole trade would have to flow through
the canals of Canada. It had been said that the maritime provinces would not participate
in the advantages resulting from this trade, but this was a mistake, for if this trade
was opened up to our ships, we must reap some benefit. Then, again, the Northwest
Territory was capable of maintaining a population of twenty millions, and when it
became settled, there would be a large increase in the trade through the Canadian
canals. The disturbance in the North-west had been mentioned in the minute of Council
as an obstacle to union, but he (Mr. Green) looked upon that disturbance as a mere
"tempest in a teapot." A great deal had been said about the way in which Nova Scotia
had been pitchforked into confederation; but it appeared that Nova Scotia was now
perfectly willing to lend a helping hand in opening up the resources of the country.
British North Americans had a country which was capable of becoming a great nationality.
Its resources were almost unlimited. It had the finest coal fields in the world, and
they were so near the seaboard, that the coal might almost be shovelled into vessels.
Coal, for manufacturing purposes, could be procured in Nova Scotia for one dollar
per ton, which was cheaper than it could be obtained in any other country. There was
also an abundance of iron in the
Dominion, and the iron of Nova Scotia was superior to the far-famed Swedish iron,
which cost as much for transportation to the sea coast, as the Nova Scotia iron could
be procured for. In Canada, there were mountains of iron that would supply the market
of the world for the next century. British America had all the minerals that were
useful to man; it contained immense forests, its fisheries were the best in the world,
and it was inhabited by as fine a race of man as could be found in any part of the
globe. He (Mr. G.) believed that British America was destined to run the race of the
Empire, and if the people were determined to settle down as separate communities,
they would be like a man sitting down in a crowded street to try to stop the throng
of people. By uniting all the provinces, a country would be built up which would be
the means of preserving British institutions on this continent, and handing them down
to posterity. It was an acknowledged principle that union was strength, and since
the first union was consummated in the Garden of Eden, that principle had a powerful
influence on the human family. Much fault had been found by hon members with the constitution
of the Dominion, but that constitution, drawn up by the statesmen of the different
Provinces, P. E. Island included, had been shown to some of the greatest statesmen
of the world, and was pronounced a masterpiece of statesmanship. The people of Canada
were an educated people; they enjoyed the advantages of Responsible Government; and
if the present parliament was corrupt, they would never return them again to power.
(Hear, hear.) Fault had been found with the representation we would have in the Dominion
Parliament, but the principle of representation was one adopted by the United States
- that country to which some hon members took great pleasure in referring- and was
found to work well, and he (Mr. G.) believed it to be a sound principle. He (Mr. G.)
attributed the great prosperity of the United States to union, for if each state had
remained separated from the
1870 PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 255
rest, and a duty would have to be paid on manufactured articles as soon as taken over
the lines, manufactures would never have flourished. The hon member for Georgetown
(Mr. McAulay) had stated that the late rebellion in the United States was chargeable
to union, but he (Mr. G.) was of quite a different opinion. One great cause of that
rebellion was slavery; and another was the diversity of interests on account of the
great extent of their country. The South were as different from the North as any two
nations. The southern people were not much engaged in manufactures, and they argued
that they had a right to sell in the dearest markets and buy in the cheapest. If British
North America stood in the same position as the United States, he (Mr. G.) would never
advocate union, for they could never be bound together. They had one rebellion, and
he feared it was not the last. Anti-confederates were in the habit of belittling Canada;
they called it a narrow belt, and spoke of the extensive frontier that would have
to be defended in case of invasion; but on this frontier there were forests where
an army might wander as long as the children of Israel did in the wilderness; and,
besides, the United States had enough to settle among themselves without taking British
America. A line of communication from the Western shore to the Red River country would
open up a vast territory, which was capable of sustaining ten millions of inhabitants.
The valley of the Saskatchewan was eight hundred miles long, and one hundred and eighty
miles wide. The land there would grow forty bushels of wheat per acre; and there were
also grown flax and hemp and tobacco. As this great country became settle,d there
would be great demand for manufactures, which would be supplied by the maritime provinces.
The interests of all the provinces were so mixed up that he (Mr. G.) did not see how
they could remain separated. If we remained in our isolated position, the Dominion
could shut their gates against our products, and thus cripple our trade. The hon member
from Belfast (Mr. Duncan) said that
Nova Scotia and New Brunswick were going to grow all they required for themselves,
as they were agricultural countries; but the present government had sent a delegation
to Washington to try and open up a trade with the United States, and it was one of
the greatest agricultural countries in the world. He (Mr. G.) well remembered the
time when all the ports between here and New York were filled with every description
of eatables produced by the United States, not excepting wooden hams and nutmegs.
But now we were anxiously seeking a market for our products in the United States.
What had caused the change? The vast increase in the population of the seaport downs
of Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and New York. Those States were like a beehive, and
foreigners were flocking in from all parts of the world, and now they were importing
Chinese workmen. In Great Britain, which was over-peopled, we heard of riots, but
the law was strong enough to suppress them; but in the United States, as soon as it
became densley populated, they would have riots also; but as they had a free franchise,
and so many foreigners in their country, the case would be very different. Before
that time came, it behoved British Americans to look to their safety. A great deal
had been said about the union of England and Scotland, and Ireland and England; but
although they united under very unfavourable circumstances, they had fought together,
and become almost masters of the world. They had maintained their institutions, the
freest and best institutions in the world; and would any person say they would have
risen to such greatness had they not been united? They counted their ships by thousands;
their sails whitened every sea, and their flag was unfurled on every ocean. He (Mr.
G.) was prepared to make sacrifices to maintain British institutions. His was no lip-loyalty;
neither did he carry his loyalty in his pocket. Britain had given us a constitution
in common with the other provinces. She now wished us to unite under one government,
and it was only reasonable for us to pay respect to
256
PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 1870
the wishes of the Imperial authorities.
Something had been said about the outlying portions of a country not participating
in the benefits of the general government; but in the United States
those territories two thousand miles from
the seat of government were just as well
satisfied with the doings of Congress as any other portion of the country. Members
of the House of Commons of the
Dominion were now returned from Nova
Scotia, New Brunswick, and Canada ;
but soon the dividing lines would be
obliterated, and members of parliament
would feel that they represented, not one
particular section, but the whole of
British America. As regarded Prince
Edward Island, an offer had been made
before the last election, and the present
party in power had raised a great cry
against the Canadians. They represented
the Canadians as being the most
intolerable people in the world. Had he
(Mr. G) been a member of the government that raised such a cry against the
Canadians, he would have told those who
came as a delegation last summer that he
would have nothing to do with them ;
that would have been antlng consistently.
But the present government had entertained the question, the had debated
it with closed doors, and a member of
the government in the other end of the
Building, had stated at the opening of
the session, that what took place in that
secret Council should be laid before the
House, but it had not been done. It
was said that some of the members of
the government went to the country
bursting with confederation, and he (Mr
G.) heard same of them utter sentiments which they denied in this House.
Unfortunately for them, however, they
had penned the minutes of Council
which had been referred to so often, and
if it were those minutes of Council that
were before the House, he (Mr. G.)
would vote for them, for they breathed
as strong confederate views as pen could
on paper. Settle the land question and
there would be a " spontaneous reaction"
from one end of the Island to the other,
was the assertion made in the minute of
Council, but now they said that meant
nothing. It would be better for the
government to make a clean breast or
affair, endlet the pen is know the
conclusions they came to in that secret
Council. The government thought to
move around quietly, and feel the public
pulse before giving an expression of opinion, and if the people were in favor of confederation,
they would have
carried it. But the people were not in favor of it. The press took their views from an unscrupulous
opposition in Canada, and everything that would tell against confederation was brought
to the notice of the public, so that a strong prejudice against union was created
in the minds of the people. Irrespective of creed or party, all should view this great
question impartially, and if it could be shown that confederation would increase our
trade, and develop our resources, we should not throw cold water on the scheme, but
wish it God speed. He (Mr. G.) did not wish, however, to press his views on the people
of the Island, he entertained his own opinions, and let every person do the same.
He believed in the consolidation of British America; union would knock down the barriers
to commerce, and open up a trade with four millions of people, and if proper arrangements
could be made, a fair proportion of the revenue obtained for public works, and a railroad
built on the Island, if the people could make up their minds to accept confederation,
it would be for their benefit. We could send our produce to the markets of the Dominion
in a few days, while it would take months to send to England; and he (Mr. G.) believed
the day was not far distant when it would tax our capabilities to the utmost to supply
their markets.
Hon. Mr. DUNCAN would leave the
members of the government to reply to the remarks of the last speaker, which referred
to them, but he thought he could satisfy the committee that some of the hon. member's
arguments, in favor of confederation, rested on a very sandy foundation. He (Mr. Green)
stated that under confederation our ships would share in the trade of the canals of
Canada, but he (Mr. D.) contended that our ships would not be shut out of those canals
whether we joined Canada or not. He (Mr. Green) also wished all those provinces to
be united, because they were in the same latitude, but that was an argument against
union, for they would produce the same kind of crops, and there would not be the same
interchange of productions as if they were in different climates. He (Mr. D.) did
not know what we were to send to Red
1870 PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 257
River; the hon. member (Mr. Green)
should have informed the House. The
hon. member (Mr. Green) had made a great glory argument; the idea of belonging to
a large country seemed to have great weight with him, and paying for the privilege
was nothing at all. He (Mr. Green) stated that every country that confederated, prospered,
but Belgium and Holland united, and they could not agree at all.
Hon. Mr. HAVILAND—Religions was
the cause of their disagreement, the northern portion was a strong Protestant country,
and Belgium was an ultramontane Catholic country.
Hon. Mr. DUNCAN—We were also
told that Canada had the largest canals in the world. He (Mr. D.) thought that the
Suez canal, which would take a ship drawing eighteen feet of water, and was wide enough
to allow two vessels to pass, was the largest in the world. He (Mr. Green) also referred
to the United States, and said that Rhode Island had only one representative in Congress,
but he forgot to tell that she had two in the Senate, so that in the Senate, little
Rhode Island had the same representation as New York. The Senators in the United States
were not nominated by Congress, but chosen by the Representatives of the State, so
that they were a check on the Lower House, but in Canada the Senators were chosen
by the government, and the representation was by population both in the upper and
lower branch of the Legislature. The last speaker also referred to the manufactures
that Canada would require, but had it never occurred to him that Canada West was as
good a manufacturing country as Nova Scotia or New Brunswick. If the Mississippi river
was to be closed up, would they bring cotton down to Nova Scotia to be manufactured.
And poor Prince Edward Island could never be a manufacturing country, because it was
shut out the rest of the world for five months in the year. If the Dominion put a
tax on our produce, as it was expected, we had nothing to fear, for our pork would
bring two cents a pound more than theirs, and it was probable we should find a market
for our potatoes in the United States. Oats were, at the present time, worth only
sixteen pence half penny in New Brunswick, and letters had been received from there,
sending for vessels to take them away.
Mr. GREEN.—As regarded the canals
of Canada, he would assert it broadly that they were the best in the world. The Americans
wanted the right to get through them, and if the trade of the Great West came down
that way, those canals on the route would pay 15 or 20 per cent. A person whose mind
was so narrow that he could not judge of these things was not fit to argue about them.
A great part of the grain which came down the canals in the canal boats to New York
was not fit to ship, a waste that could be prevented by sending it down through this
canals of Canada in vessels, without breaking bulk. He contended that the capital
expended on the Dominion canals would yet become productive capital. The hon. member
for Belfast, (Mr. Duncan) had asked what trade we could have with the Great West?
Let him ask the sea-board States, what their trade was with that great country. The
Western States, in his (Mr. G's.) opinion, could not begin to manufacture in comparison
with Nova Scotia, and one reason of this was because of the expense of taking up coal.
Hon. Mr. DUNCAN said the Confederates
did not pay any attention to taxes or the price of pork or oats. All they wanted was
the glory of belonging to a big country, but he was content to live on our own little
Island, and had no wish to go up to Ottawa.
Hon. Mr. LAIRD rose merely to reply
to the charge made by the hon member, Mr. Green, against the government, as the arguments
in favor of confederation advanced by that hon member had already been answered by
the hon member from Belfast (Mr. Duncan.) The cry was that the government sat with
close doors with the delegates from the Dominion, but the statement of the delegates
themselves was sufficient to refute that—they "had an opportunity of discussing informally
with members of the Government and other public men" this great question. The fact
was, the government never sat as a government with the delegates. The hon member (Mr.
Green) said the Dominion was sparsely populated, and they had to be heavily taxed
to purchase the Red River territory, and he thought it a legitimate question to ask
what benefit Red River would be to us. If it was the country it was represented to
be, we should not be able to export anything to it. We were asked
258
PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 1870
to join a country and submit to taxation
to conquer a province that was united to
them without their consent, and to be
governed by men who were unfit to rule any country. The hon member had predicted that
the members of the present government would never be returned to the House, because
they appended their names to the Minute of Council, and that this Minute of Council
committed the Island to confederation. But the very first words of the Minute of Council
were: -
" Inasmuch as the said terms do not comprise a full and immediate settlement of the
land tenures, and indemnity from the Imperial government fro loss of territorial revenues,
the committee cannot recommend said terms to the consideration of their constituents."
Was it an expression of approval to say they could not recommend the terms even to
the people's consideration ? Another paragraph read as follows:-
" The opinion of the people of this Island on
the question of union has been expressed by them, in the most decisive language, as
opposed to any union with the Dominion. This opinion the Council has no reason to
believe has been changed, and therefore conceives it is unnecessary for them to enter
into any other details to which they believe many valid and serious objections are
entertained."
There were the sentiments expressed by
the members of the government, and it was said they would never be returned to the
House. By whom was such a statement made? Surely he must be a paragon of perfection.
The immaculate member censuring the government for favoring confederation appeared
to him like Satan rebuking sin. He (Mr. L.) would now look at another part of the
Minute of Council which confederates were very fond of quoting :-
"The Council can only further express a hope that the government and parliament will
adopt this question (that is the Land Question) as their own, and make such persistent
and powerful representations thereon to the Imperial authorities as may result in
obtaining redress for this injured colony. Success would be productive of the best
results. It would establish the prestige of the Dominion ; cause a spontaneous, not
an artificial reaction of public opinion in Prince Edward Island." (Hear, hear, from
several hon members.)
He would ask was it any harm to request the Dominion Parliament to make the Land Question
of this Island their own? And if they succeeded in settling it there would be a great
reaction in the feelings of the people of this Island towards them. They said they
would settle the question, and the government told them to do so. It was used as an
argument in favor of confederation that the Dominion Gov
ernment had so much more power with
the British Parliament than we had, and it was deemed advisable to test their power.
The result proved that they had no more power than ourselves to settle this long existing
grievance. He (Mr. L.) would challenge his hon member to put his finger on any passage
in the Minute of Council to prove that the government pledged themselves to accept
confederation, even had the Dominion Government settled the Land Question.
Mr. BRECKEN said the government could not pledge themselves to that, but they threw in their
weight, and did all they could.
Hon. Mr. LAIRD. - He (Mr. Brecken) presumed so; and he (Mr. L.) presumed he (Mr. B.) was a very
bad judge. There was not even a wish expressed ; it was only giving them a chance
to prove that their pretended power was real, and had they been honest statesmen,
they would have performed what they were asked to do. It was states, in a speech delivered
in the Ottawa Parliament, but Sir John A. McDonald, that the British Government saw
eye to eye with the Dominion Government on the question of coercing the people of
Red River into submission to the Canadian authorities. The British Government had
stained their escutcheon when they forced their trade upon the unwilling Chinese;
and he (Mr. L.) hoped we might never see their banner unfurled to crush the free-born
people of Red River unless justice was first meted out to them. He (Mr. L.) was sorry
to see the hon member for Charlottetown (Mr. Brecken) desire that we should join a
country and pay taxes to a government to help carry on a war against another colony.
The hon member (Mr. Brecken) was willing to take the " Better Terms, " with the addition
of a railroad from Summerside to Georgetown.
Hon. Mr. LAIRD would deny the change, and the hon member would have to prove his accusation or stand
convicted of falsehood. We should be in a very different position under confederation
from what we were now. Now the members of the upper branch of our parliament were
chosen by the people, but then they would be chosen by the politicians of Canada.
Hon. Mr. HAVILAND remarked that if he had the same feelings against the British Government as the hon
member who just sat down, he would not hold a
1870 PARLIAMENTARY REPORTER. 259
seat in the Executive Government. The hon member had also spoken very hard against
the Canadians ; but the truth was, Canada had made rapid strides in civilization,
in agricultural progress, and commercial prosperity. In 1841, when the two Canadas
were united, they had not half the population they had at present. With the difficulties
of an unhappy situation to contend with, they had made rapid progress - they had built
railways.
Hon. Mr. HAVILAND.-In 1867 the debt of Canada was sixty-seven millions of dollars, which was very small
in proportion to the great benefits derived from the expenditure of the money. Canada
had two-thousand miles of railroad, and the finest canals in the world, and their
public buildings had cost millions of dollars. The hon member seemed to have a great
horror of confederation now than when he made his speech at Summerside, or when he
signed the Minute of Council. The United States were opposed to the confederation
of those provinces, because they considered that if they remained separate there would
be a greater probability of them being united to their great country. The government
had a great horror of receiving money from Canada, but they wished them to settle
the Land Question. A Machiavellian policy again. The hon member (Mr. Laird) said they
had not pledged themselves to accept confederation in case the Canadians succeeded
in settling the Land Question ; but Lord Granville thought differently. He (Mr. H.)
believed the Dominion Government would never have taken the trouble to send down those
proposals unless they had been encouraged to do so by the Island Government. The hon
member talked of shedding blood at Red River ; but the only blood shed there was that
of a man named Scott, who was shot by Riel, and this was the man the hon member had
such sympathy for. That territory was given to a company in the reign of Charles II,
and all the Dominion Government had done was to buy out the rights of that company
; but the hon member (Mr. Laird) would not wish
Canada to get possession of it, because it was the keystone of the Dominion, and if
not taken possession of by Canada, the Stars and Stripes would soon be floating over
it.
The Committee then divided on the amendment proposed by Hon. Mr. Haviland.
Yeas- Hon. Mr. Haviland; Messrs. Brecken, Green, Jenkins, Prowse - 5.
Nays - Hons. Howlan, Col. Secretary, Laird, Callbeck, P. Sinclair, Henderson, Duncan,
McAulay, the Speaker, Messrs. McNeill, Bell, McCormack, McMillan, Owen, Howat, Kickham,
Cameron, Reilly, McLean - 19.
The Hon. Mr. McAulay then proposed
his resolution as an amendment to the resolution proposed by Hon. Mr. Howlan, when
the House divided.
Yeas - Hons. McAulay, Henderson,
Duncan ; Messrs Owen, and Howat - 5.
Nays - Hons. Howlan, Col Secretary, Laird, Callbeck, P. Sinclair, the Speaker, Haviland
; Messrs. Brecken, McNeill, Bell, McCormack, McMillan, Kickham, Reilly, McLean, Cameron,
Jenkins, Green, Prowse - 19.
The question was then put on the original resolution proposed by Hon. Mr. Howlan :-
Yeas - Hons. Howlan, Lard, Callbeck, P. Sinclair, the Speaker, Col. Secretary ; Messrs.
McNeill, Bell, McMillan, McCormack, Kickham, Cameron, Reilly, McLean - 14.
Nays - Hons. Haviland, Henderson, McAulay, Duncan ; Messrs. Brecken, Owen, Green, Prowse,
Jenkins, Howat. - 10.
Hon. Mr. HOWLAN then proposed another Resolution (No. 2 of those reported on Saturday), but it was
decided that said resolution would have to lie 24 hours on the table before a division
could be taken thereon. Progress was reported, and the House adjourned till Saturday.
Cet individu a participé aux :
