Permalink 05:52:49 pm, by Laurel Bowman, 192 words, 6 views   English (CA)
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Jason and Apis (Pausanias 5.1.8)

From D K-T: "I came across another section that I would appreciate a second set of eyes on. Pausanias 5.1.8 mentions "Apis, son of Jason, from Pallantium in Arcadia" but links Apis to APIS1, the god also known as Serapis, and Jason to JASO1, as in Jason and the Argonauts. I just want to check to see if both of these men are not supposed to be new characters instead. Here is the link http://mythsdev.uvic.ca/exist/apps/myths/library.html?c=PAUS1-5&d=APIS1,JASO1&o=all" There appears to be only one Jason in all of Greek myth, so the link to JASO1 is likely correct (that is, he's the one Pausanias is referring to, though frankly I think Pausanias got it wrong). However, despite a great deal of confusion over Apis, whose name shows up several times in various stories, this one can't be the Apis who went to Egypt and was worshipped as the god Serapis, because this one died at the funeral games for Azan. So I would create a new Apis, APIS2, son of Jason, no mother named, and ignore the complications.
Permalink 05:26:17 pm, by Laurel Bowman, 247 words, 6 views   English (CA)
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PERS8, PERS9, and NEST1 (Apollod. 1.9.9, Paus. 1.22.7)

From D K-T: "I came across two Perseus' and currently both PERS8 and PERS9 are bleeding together as the same person. I believe that Perseus 8 is the hero and Perseus 9 is an additional one. This makes me think that PERS9 should have Nestor as his father, as his description suggests despite the fact that he is currently missing a genealogy, and that PERS8 should be removed from Nestor (NEST1)'s genealogy. Can you please take a look at this when you get a chance? Here is a link to the PAUS page with the pertinent information: http://mythsdev.uvic.ca/exist/apps/myths/library.html?c=PAUS1-1&d=PERS9,PERS8,APOL1-L1.9.9&o=all" This is correct. Perseus 8 (PERS8) is the hero. His father is Zeus and his mother is Danae (DANA4), and Anaxibia (ANAX4) should be removed from his genealogy as an alternate mother. Nestor (NEST1) should also be removed from his genealogy as an alternate father; his potential fathers are Zeus and Cretheus only. PERS9 is the son of Nestor (NEST1) and Anaxibia (ANAX4). He doesn't appear to have had children and isn't mentioned anywhere except Pausanias 1.22.7. The Perseus in Apollodorus 1.9.9 is clearly PERS8 (the hero), not PERS9 (the son of Nestor); please correct this identification (he's currently identified as PERS9). PERS8 should be removed from the genealogy of NEST1, who is not his father, and from the genalogy of ANAX4, who is not his mother. They are the parents of PERS9.
Permalink 04:57:35 pm, by Laurel Bowman, 34 words, 8 views   English (CA)
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Bryas and the Argive Thousand, Pausanias 2.20.2

From D K-T: "Regarding the passage PAUS 2.20.2: ... is this passage referring to the Argive Thousand from the Battle of Mantinea?" Yes. See Kagan, Donald. The Peace of Nicias and the Sicilian Expedition. Cornell 1991, p. 138.


Permalink 11:15:14 pm, by Laurel Bowman, 162 words, 6 views   English (CA)
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All the Pelasgi

From D K-T: "Is the Pelasgus, father of Hippothous, from Epitome 1.3.35 the same as the Pelasgus, son of Tropias, who is credited with first inhabiting Arcadia as a Pelasgian in PAUS 2.22.1 and PAUS 8.1.4 and immediately proceeding sections? (I made a link with the bios of Pelasgus and Hippothous here: http://mythsdev.uvic.ca/exist/apps/myths/library.html?c=APOL1-E1&d=PELA4,HIPP4" Probably not. There were a flock of "Pelasgus"es. Generally seems to mean "the first guy on the scene", occasionally by being born out of the ground. Different locations had different "Pelasgus" stories. The Pelasgi were thought to be the original inhabitants of Greece, the ones who established the worship of Zeus. Anyone named "Pelasgus" I think just means "original inhabitant". It would be interesting to see how many of them have daughters who marry men who become king, rather than sons who become king. So, for our purposes, probably you should make another character called "Pelasgus".
Permalink 11:02:16 pm, by Laurel Bowman, 275 words, 9 views   English (CA)
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bones of which Tantalus? Pausanias 2.22.2-2.22.3

From D K-T: "Pausanias mentions the bones of Tantalus in 2.22.2-2.22.3 and I was wondering if you feel he is referring to Tantalus, who is punished by Hades without being able to eat or drink, Tantalus, who is killed by Agamemnon and was married to Klytaimnestra, or the more unlikely Tantalus who was a son of Niobe. I did some research and a scholar has already considered this question on the page which this links to ( https://books.google.ca/books?id=CetszVxoxAoC&pg=PA202&lpg=PA202&dq=argos+bones+of+tantalus&source=bl&ots=rXVR3x-O98&sig=MdgPq8447CQNE1FZXpl2c_3ShUo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiAxvzHm8zZAhWS3oMKHaxuA6cQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=argos%20bones%20of%20tantalus&f=false ) but I would still appreciate your input." I can't find a Tantalus who is the son of Niobe; most of them aren't named. There might have been one, but if so he died with all her other children, and there's nothing special about him, so I doubt that he's the one. Tantalus son of Thyestes, first husband of Klytaimnestra, or possibly eaten in a stew by his father along with all the other kids, and likewise died childless (and possibly as a child, in a group of children), so likewise isn't especially important. Tantalus the FATHER of Niobe is the father of Pelops, and the one who is being tormented in the underworld, and the one who founded the entire clan of Pelops, so he's the important one. I would pick him. If it had been another Tantalus Pausanias would have specified.
Permalink 05:08:05 pm, by Laurel Bowman, 192 words, 5 views   English (CA)
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Apollodorus 1.19.3 vs Pausanias 2.18.4

D K-T asks: I also have a question regarding this scenario because it appears that AEGI4 and CYAN1 and either brothers or father and son. Insight about which version is true, or if I need to add a new character, would be greatly appreciated. PAUS 2.18.4 Pausanias says: Now descended from Bias five men, Neleids on their mother's side, occupied the throne for four generations down to Cyanippus (CYAN1), son of Aegialeus (AEGI4), and descended from Melampus six men in six generations down to Amphilochus, son of Amphiaraus. VS In Library 1.9.13 we have: Pronax had a son Lycurgus; and Adrastus had by Amphithea, daughter of Pronax, three daughters, Argia, Deipyle, and Aegialia, and two sons, Aegialeus (AEGI4) and Cyanippus (CYAN1). My answer: I think they just have different versions, but it's the same guy. Cyanippus: brother or son? Pausanias thinks he's Aegialeus' son, and Apollodorus thinks he's Adrastus' son and Aegialeus' brother. If there is a way of saying "alternate genealogy" on MoM that is how I'd go, but I would not create another character. Either way he dies childless so the family line doesn't get messed up past that point. (I think.)
Permalink 04:20:50 pm, by Laurel Bowman, 150 words, 7 views   English (CA)
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Pausanias 1.11.1 how many Arybbas/Aryblas again?

From D K-T: I am having trouble distinguishing between the Neoptolemus' and Pyrrhus' of Pausanias 1.11.1. I want to make sure that the events are attributed to the right character but it is very difficult for me to sort it out. I also think that Arybbas and Aryblas should be different characters even though they are both currently listed as ARYB1. I have attached a small family tree that I drew up based on 1.11.1. My response: Pyrrhus family tree This is my attempt at the family tree. As far as I can tell "Aryblas" is a typo; they are both "Arybbas", and are the same person, as they are presently coded. The only issue is that Pausanias says that Pyrrhus (the last one) and Alexander aren't related except by ancestry, but in fact Pyrrhus is Alexander's second cousin, which is close enough to call "kin" in a powerful royal family. However.


Permalink 02:11:24 pm, by Greg, 116 words, 18 views   English (CA)
Categories: Activity log; Mins. worked: 120


I beat the P4 in to a semblance of modern XML. Not perfect AT ALL, but it's consistent and it validates.

I also downloaded the same file from Pelagios, which has all places marked up with recogito and pleiades ids. I'll need to merge the two files at some point.

XPATH to get the bits already marked up in Perseus version
Places (879): distinct-values(//name[@type='place']/text())
People (1060): distinct-values(//name[@type='pers']/text())
Groups (629): distinct-values(//name[@type='ethnic']/text())

*note that many (all?) places are marked up twice, wrapping a placeName in a name type="place". There are 245 of the former and 879 of the latter. Groups seem to be of a 'national' type (e.g. Egyptians).


Permalink 02:08:53 am, by Laurel Bowman, 20 words, 11 views   English (CA)
Categories: Activity log; Mins. worked: 0

Pausanias 2.23.5 "Sicyorians" is a typo

In response to D K-T query "Is "Sicyorians" in Paus. 2.23.5 a typo for "Sicyonians", yes it is. Please correct. LB
Permalink 01:43:32 am, by Laurel Bowman, 37 words, 11 views   English (CA)
Categories: Activity log; Mins. worked: 0

Epidauros = Epidauria

In response to DK-T question "Is Epidauria considered a different location that Epidaurus?" - Pleiades.org says they are the same place, so Epidauria needs to be linked up to Epidaurus, wherever it occurs (Pausanias, for one).

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