Colonial Despatches
The colonial despatches of Vancouver Island and British Columbia 1846-1871
Despatch to London
Seymour, Frederick to Grenville, Richard 2 February 1868, CO 60:32, no. 3372, 15.
Abstract
Despatch to London.
Minutes (6), Enclosures (untranscribed) (3), Other documents (2), Marginalia (1).
Seymour forwards a report from Young regarding imperial charges applied against British Columbia for the Royal Engineers. Seymour discusses the improvements the Royal Engineers made in British Columbia during the period the Royal Engineers were stationed in the colony. Cox’s minute suggests forwarding Young’s report to the treasury. Rogers’s minute discusses how much the Treasury was willing to pay for the Royal Engineers and reports that Seymour’s despatch indicates the Royal Engineers did not make improvements for British Columbia. Adderley’s minute discusses why Seymour and British Columbia are still responsible for the expenses of the Royal Engineers. Buckingham minutes that Seymour’s despatch should be considered in the general discussion of British Columbia’s finances. Included documents discuss the expenditures for the Royal Engineers and
describe the actions of the Royal Engineers in British Columbia.
No. 3
New Westminster
2th February 1868
My Lord Duke,
With reference to the many despatches mentioned in the margin
respectfully, yet vainly, protesting against the charge made
upon the Colony by the Imperial Treasuryfor
for payment of certain
expenses incurred by the detachment of Royal Engineers while
stationed here, I now venture to forward a memorandum on the
subject prepared by the Acting Colonial Secretary. Mr
Young, having served under Sir James Douglas during the whole
time that the Engineers were in the Colony has been able to
furnish a more detailed account of the several items of the
Account than I had hitherto been ableto
to procure. I think he
has made it out that the sum of £10,704.16.7 was charged
against the Colony in error.
Governor to Secy of State
No. 3 of 26 Apl 1864
60, " 8 Oct "
23 " 11 Mar 1865
88 " 28 June "
124 " 27 Nov "
19 " 11 Jany 1867
128 " 25 Sept "
No. 3 of 26 Apl 1864
60, " 8 Oct "
23 " 11 Mar 1865
88 " 28 June "
124 " 27 Nov "
19 " 11 Jany 1867
128 " 25 Sept "
for payment of certain
expenses incurred by the detachment of Royal Engineers while
stationed here, I now venture to forward a memorandum on the
subject prepared by the Acting Colonial Secretary. Mr
Young, having served under Sir James Douglas during the whole
time that the Engineers were in the Colony has been able to
furnish a more detailed account of the several items of the
Account than I had hitherto been ableto
to procure. I think he
has made it out that the sum of £10,704.16.7 was charged
against the Colony in error.
2. I would add a few remarks to Mr
Young's. In the first place. "No. 1. Temporary Barracks at
Esquimalt for Marines." Esquimalt was not, at the time when the
expenditure was made, even within the limits of British
Columbia, nor was it so for many years after. "No. 2.
Temporary Barracksat
at Langley for the Royal Engineers."
Utterly useless to the Colony and have long since disappeared.
"No. 3. Clearing Site for Camp New Westminster." Colonel Moody
selected a heavily timbered piece of land a mile from the town
for his Camp. He employed civil labour to clear it. The
expenditure has been utterly thrown away, as far as the Colony
is concerned. New Westminster would be ina
a much more
prosperous condition were not the small resources of the
citizens spread over two several town sites a mile apart.
at Langley for the Royal Engineers."
Utterly useless to the Colony and have long since disappeared.
"No. 3. Clearing Site for Camp New Westminster." Colonel Moody
selected a heavily timbered piece of land a mile from the town
for his Camp. He employed civil labour to clear it. The
expenditure has been utterly thrown away, as far as the Colony
is concerned. New Westminster would be ina
a much more
prosperous condition were not the small resources of the
citizens spread over two several town sites a mile apart.
As regards No. 4, 5, 6, and 9, Mr
Young very justly observes that the Colony would not have been
called upon to provide accommodation for its Civil Servants.
The only building that has turned out to be of advantage to the
Colony is the house Colonel Moody built for himself, but then it
isinconvenient
inconvenient for people in town to have to walk a mile
whenever they wish to see me. Had this House not existed it is
probable that I should have built a larger and more commodious
one in the City of New Westminster out of the £10,000 placed at
my disposal for the purpose and thus it is probable that the
great expenditure incurred in Victoria in building a Government
House would not have arisen. I thinkhowever
however that I made a very
fair proposal in my despatch No. 60 of 8th
Oct. 1864, when I suggested that the outlay incurred on the
present Government House should be received by the Imperial
Treasury in full satisfaction of all claims on the Colony.
inconvenient for people in town to have to walk a mile
whenever they wish to see me. Had this House not existed it is
probable that I should have built a larger and more commodious
one in the City of New Westminster out of the £10,000 placed at
my disposal for the purpose and thus it is probable that the
great expenditure incurred in Victoria in building a Government
House would not have arisen. I thinkhowever
however that I made a very
fair proposal in my despatch No. 60 of 8th
Oct. 1864, when I suggested that the outlay incurred on the
present Government House should be received by the Imperial
Treasury in full satisfaction of all claims on the Colony.
"No. 7. Houses for Military Stores" are useless. I shall
repair them. They may fall to the ground.
"No. 8. Survey Office." This is ofsome
some use to the Colony,
but is, like all the other Camp buildings, at an inconvenient
distance from the town.
some use to the Colony,
but is, like all the other Camp buildings, at an inconvenient
distance from the town.
"No. 10. Military trail from Camp to Burrard Inlet." This is
now impassable and a new road has been opened to the Inlet at an
expense of £3,600.
"No. 11. Lieutenant Palmer's exploration from Hope to Colville
for Military purposes." It will be seen from the correspondence
I enclose that Sir James Douglasdisapproved
disapproved of this work being
undertaken.
disapproved of this work being
undertaken.
3. I must venture to repeat that the Imperial Treasury has been
far from indulgent to the Colony in this matter.
Minutes by CO staff
Sir F. Rogers
This £10704.16.7. was paid over by the Crown Agents to the Treasury in 1865, & was taken into consideration when the settlement of Accounts took place between the Imperial & local Treasuries. I do not suppose the Treasury would reopen this question whether or no the Colony
was properly charged with the
payment of these Items.
This £10704.16.7. was paid over by the Crown Agents to the Treasury in 1865, & was taken into consideration when the settlement of Accounts took place between the Imperial & local Treasuries. I do not suppose the Treasury would reopen this question whether or no the Colony
was properly charged with the
payment of these Items.
I think however a copy might be sent to the Ty
for consideration with reference to previous correspondence—see
Ty/11978 & answer.
CC
3/4
The Colony was told it must pay for the Engineers. But the
Treasury was asked to pay some 22,000£ half alleged to be for
pay &c—half for "Public Works." The Treasury denied all
responsibility but consented to pay for the pay—refusing
to pay anything for the "Public Works"—wh
the D of N (not understanding their nature) did not ask the
Treasy to pay for. The Colony now have urged & do urge
that what were called public works are in fact Barracks & other
matter for the comfort of the Engineers & their
officer—that
the Engineers were sent out, not at their request, by the Home
Govt and were of little or no use.
officer—that
the Engineers were sent out, not at their request, by the Home
Govt and were of little or no use.
All this however the Treasury has been told already witht
effect—& I do not know that there is much use in repeating it.
But I suppose the papers shd , as Mr Cox proposes, be sent on.
FR
6/4
Duke of Buckingham
Instead of consulting the Treasury again I should inform the Govr that the Account is based altogether on untenable grounds. The Engineers were sent "not at their request" perhaps, but solely for their benefit.
Instead of consulting the Treasury again I should inform the Govr that the Account is based altogether on untenable grounds. The Engineers were sent "not at their request" perhaps, but solely for their benefit.
The Barracks at Esquimalt were built before it was within the
Colony—but for the local interests now Colonial.
The cost of clearing site N. Westminster, if thrown away, cannot
be charged on taxpayers at home. He argues that all mistakes made by
Govt in other parts of the Empire are to be charged on the
[histopolitical?]
scape goat. He takes the heart of Empire
as tributary to all its extremities with no circulation back.
Only what "turns out well" is to be paid for by the locality
where any expenditure is made.
CBA
8/4
I am very much inclined to agree with Mr Forster's minute on
1474—& this question to be considered now with the General
question of B. Col. finance.
B&C
10/4
Documents enclosed with the main document (not transcribed)
Memorandum, W.A.G. Young, Acting Colonial Secretary,
22 November 1867, containing details relating
to expenditures discussed in the despatch.
Colonel R.C. Moody to Douglas, 22 December 1859, forwarding
Lieutenant Palmer's report on the exploration of a
route from Hope to Fort Colvile.
Other documents included in the file
Rogers to G.A. Hamilton, Treasury, 17 July 1868, forwarding
copy of the despatch with reference to previous correspondence.
Other documents included in the file
*
Rogers to Secretary to the Treasury, 25 March 1869,
inviting comments respecting his letter of 17 July 1868.