Colonial Despatches
The colonial despatches of Vancouver Island and British Columbia 1846-1871
Public Offices document
Hamilton, George Alexander to Rogers, Frederic 24 May 1861, CO 60:12, no. 4725, 215.
Abstract
Public Offices document.
Minutes (4), Enclosures (transcribed) (1), Other documents (1).
Hamilton writes Rogers, on behalf of the Treasury,
to inform Newcastle that the Treasury is willing to allow the
Judicial Committee of the Privy Councilto decide the validity of the HBC's claims regarding land ownership around Victoria, but refuses to accept any financial liability in the event that any compensation is awarded. In addition, the Treasury refuses to pay any
expenses connected with the enquiry.The minutes show that both the Colonial Office and the Treasury agree that the colonies of Vancouver Island and British Columbia should be responsible for any
indemnity which may be dueto the HBC, as well as any expenses resulting from the proceedings before the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council.
Hamilton to Rogers (Permanent Under-Secretary)
Treasury Chambers
24 May 1861
I am directed by the Lords Commissioners of Her Majestys
Treasury to acquaint you for the information of the Duke of
Newcastle that after a full consideration of all the circumstances
represented in your letter of the 21 March last, Their Lordships
are prepared to acquiesce in the proposed investigation before
the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council into the title of
the Hudson's Bay Company to certain Lands in British Columbia and
Vancouver's Island and to accept the decision of the Council in
the matter.
matter
As regards however possible claims to compensation supposing
a decision favorable to the Company, Their Lordships cannot
consent under any circumstances to come under any obligation in
respect of them so far as the Revenues of the Country are concerned.
The question must be considered as one between the Local
Governments acting through the Crown on the one hand and the
Company on the other, and any claims which may arise out of the
proposed reference to the Privy Council must be met out of such
means as the respective parties have at their disposal and can in
no case beallowed
allowed to fall upon Funds which would have to be
provided by Parliament.
allowed to fall upon Funds which would have to be
provided by Parliament.
In like manner the expenses connected with the
enquiry before the Privy Council might in Their Lordships
opinion be defrayed by the Governments of Vancouvers Island
and British Columbia jointly.
[P.S.] The Petitions are herewith returned.
Minutes by CO staff
Mr Fortescue
I should think the proper course was to send this letter & ours of 19 March to wh this is an answer to the P. Council with an intimation that the Secy of St. concurred with the Lds of the Treasy in considering that the expense of paying for this reference & of compensating the H.B.C. for any lands wh may appear to have been wrongfully taken from them will properly fall on the Revenues of V.C.I. and B.C.
I should think the proper course was to send this letter & ours of 19 March to wh this is an answer to the P. Council with an intimation that the Secy of St. concurred with the Lds of the Treasy in considering that the expense of paying for this reference & of compensating the H.B.C. for any lands wh may appear to have been wrongfully taken from them will properly fall on the Revenues of V.C.I. and B.C.
But then comes the question what these revenues amount
to, & whether the Secy of State will be able to pay the
expenses wh on behalf of the Colony he thus acknowledges
to be chargeable on it—(vide Mr Murdoch's note annexed).
Of this you will be more able to judge than I.
FR
27/5
Duke of Newcastle
I think the Colony must take its chance of being able to pay and that this sh. go to the Privy Council at once—with a request to be informed when they will be prepared to enter on the investigation—as it is of the greatest importance to the Colonies concerned and but fair to the H.B.Co that that [sic] as little further delay as can be avoided, sh. take place in the settlement of the questions at issue.
I think the Colony must take its chance of being able to pay and that this sh. go to the Privy Council at once—with a request to be informed when they will be prepared to enter on the investigation—as it is of the greatest importance to the Colonies concerned and but fair to the H.B.Co that that [sic] as little further delay as can be avoided, sh. take place in the settlement of the questions at issue.
CF
29
I agree. Write at once to P.C.
Documents enclosed with the main document (transcribed)
It is, I think, quite fair that any indemnity which may be
due to the H.B.Co for Land in B. Columbia or Vancs Island
should be paid out of the Revenues of those Colonies
respectively—the only difficulty would be as to the time of
payment. The Colonial Revenues wd
I presume be insufficient
for several years to pay the indemnity—and the Co if ousted
of their Land would probably object to wait. If the Treasury
would not advance the money as I suppose with New Zealand's
experience before their eyes they would refuse to do, the
only alternative would be to give the Co a lien on the Land
Revenues of the
Colonies & pay them interest in the meantime.
My belief is that the Co will not be able to make out a
legal title to the Land in either Colony—but that they
will make out a strong case for equitable consideration in
Vancs Isld. But a case for equitable consideration can be
of course settled at the convenience to a certain extent at the
discretion of the Govt and need not therefore cause
any embarrassment.
I presume be insufficient
for several years to pay the indemnity—and the Co if ousted
of their Land would probably object to wait. If the Treasury
would not advance the money as I suppose with New Zealand's
experience before their eyes they would refuse to do, the
only alternative would be to give the Co a lien on the Land
Revenues of the
Colonies & pay them interest in the meantime.
My belief is that the Co will not be able to make out a
legal title to the Land in either Colony—but that they
will make out a strong case for equitable consideration in
Vancs Isld. But a case for equitable consideration can be
of course settled at the convenience to a certain extent at the
discretion of the Govt and need not therefore cause
any embarrassment.
I am afraid unless you take some immediate step all the
Water frontage in Victoria will be sold. Is it prudent to
wait the issue of the proceedings before the Judicial
Commee which will probably last some months?
Other documents included in the file
Rogers to Henry Reeve, Privy Council, 4 June 1861, forwarding a copy of an earlier letter on the subject of HBC land-claims, and asking when the Privy Council will begin their investigation into
the same.