Myths on Maps

The place, "Pelasgians" (Should be "Land of the Pelasgians") currently has no co-ordinates. I looked on Wiki and it says that the Pelasgians were pre-hellenic peoples who lived in Greece. Is there any place that the Greeks wold have thought of as still Pelasgian and not Hellenic? ~Simon

June 27 9-11:15 June 28 9-4

Greg and I talked about objects and other non-human entities that father or bear offspring and had some Ideas. For rivers and other places, I think it's fine to doubly mark them up as characters and places, but when referring to the Blood of Sky's genitals and the teeth of the dragon that spawn the Sparti We may want a new classification for them. Along with those, we thought of important recurring objects like the Golden fleece and adamantine sickles (though not explicitly connected to one another, show up 4 or 5 times). Is it useful within the scope of this project to add such a category or categories? What say you, Laurel? ~Simon

I've been checking all the mark up in the Argonauts bit of Apollodorus and they sail past the "Celtic Nation" (1.9.24) and we don't have any coordinates for it. I realise it's probably not all that useful to stick a a single point in what the Greeks called "celtic" and call it done, but is there any area that would be best to specify in this case? It should be around the south of France or North-West Italy Because they also go by Liguria. Any thoughts? ~Simon

So in tackling the Calydonian Boar Hunt issue, Greg and I had to figure out how to include an event in a character's description. It's a bit complicated so: EXAMPLE!

<person xml:id="eurytion_1">
<persName>Eurytion</persName>
<note type="description">A participant in the <listEvent>
<event corresp="events.xml#event_101">
<desc>Calydonian Boar Hunt</desc>
</event>
</listEvent>, killed unintentionally by <persName corresp="#peleus"
>Peleus</persName>.</note>
<age n="9"/>
<note><listPerson>
<personGrp/>
<relation name="father" active="#antigone_2"/>
</listPerson></note>
<sex value="1">male</sex>
</person>

So within the description add <listEvent> then <event (and the xml id of the event you want)> then <desc>(put the name of event here) and close all the tags.

~Simon

Added at group greeksAtTroy. I have included achaeans, argives and danaans as subgroups, and should perhaps also include them as akas (I don't know if this would even work). I plan also to include as subgroups the contigent groups of the Greeks as they are described in the CoS, for now.

I am unsure whether or how to add the trojanWar group that already exists, and gives a long list of names from Apollodorus, without sources or citation, and without sorting the participants into subgroups, which I think is useful. I will leave this entry alone for now, but it might be good in the future to edit it to include all the subgroups who participated in the Trojan war, and then edit out from the long list of characters all the characters already included in the subgroups.

Homer, in the Catalogue of Ships, and later, Apollodorus both describe the contributions of men and ships that various city-states made to the Greek expedition against Troy. As it stands, there are two separate sets of events in the events list; those drawn from Homer's description, and those drawn from Apollodorus' description. Homer and Apollodorus are clearly describing the same thing, although the information they provide is not identical.

For example, event 1078 cites Apollodorus saying that the Boeotians contributed 10 leaders and 40 ships, event 1406 cites Homer, who names the Boeotian leaders and says they contributed 50 ships with 120 men each. Homer and Apollodorus are referring to the same thing, and so we need to be able to see that, but we also need to be able to see and preserve the differences in their accounts.

Greg proposes two possible solutions. The first is to keep two separate events with two separate ids in the list of events, and to include a "same as" thing, so that the two events can be associated. This has the advantage of keeping each version of the events simply and unambiguously associated with its proper citation, but poses possibly insurmountable difficulties for when it comes time to incorporate ordered series of events into journeys (it will not be possible, it a journey, to have to contemporaneous and notionally identical events).

The second possible solution is to merge the two events under one id, and include bibl references for each of the sources (ie, Apollodorus, Homer, and whichever authors are added to the project in the future). The downside of this is that it could become difficult to present the information correctly, while also sorting out differences and showing clearly what info is contained in what source.

A third possibility is some system that combines these two possibilities, which would be dependent on subjective judgement of the difference of events.

I want to build a "browse by text" widget that provides a categorized list of stuff within the fragment a user chooses. For example, clicking on "browse by text -> Apollodorus -> Places" will display a list of all places mentioned by Apollodorus, and choosing Characters or Events or Groups will show a list of all characters, events and groups mentioned by Apollodorus.

The XPath for showing all unique places in Apollodorus:
//p/placeName[not(@corresp=preceding::placeName/@corresp)]/@corresp
This should only provide placeNames that are direct children of p elements - meaning it will ignore placeNames nested in notes, bibls and cits.

June 25 9-4:15 June 26 9-3

I removed 'abdera' and 'apollod' from the character list, and corrected the one reference to 'Apollod' in Apollodorus to "Apollo."

I have come across the following characters in the characters list which almost certainly need to be removed: cercopes, chthonic (this is an adjective, not a name, erichthoniius (almost certainly a misspelling of "erichthonius")

I think the following probably also need to be removed: curetes, byblus (place, not a person)

Attention should be paid to the character entries "humanity_1" and "humanity_2" -- I'm not sure they are properly characters.

I suspect cycnus_1 and cycnus_2 may be the same character, should investigate.

note - Deleted byblus, it is indeed a place ~Simon

SBE, LM and I sorted out at least the xml-side of a couple of issues today: sub-groups, and how to deal with disputed parentage.

1) When we have a group that clearly belongs to another group how do we mark up the relationship? For example, the group leadersOfTheBoeotians already exists. If there are leaders, clearly there are followers, and also clearly, there is a larger group containing them all. Solution:

<org xml:id="boeotians">
    <name>Boeotians</name>
    <org corresp="#boeotiansLeaders"/>
    <org corresp="#boeotianMinions"/>
    <personGrp>
    	<persName corresp="characters.xml#tim" source="apollodorus.xml#apollodorus-epitome_1.1.23">Tim</persName>
    </personGrp>
</org>

** please note the addition of the source attribute to the persName element.

2) When a claim of parentage is made that is in dispute with another claim - e.g. Apol. says Tim is the father of one child (Keith) but Homer says that Tim is the father of a different only child (Kevin) we need a way to render this in the xml. Previously we just did this:

<relation name="father" active="#keith #kevin"/>

but now we're going to do this:

<relation name="father" active="#keith" corresp="#apol_1.1.1"/>
<relation name="father" active="#kevin" corresp="#homer_1.120"/>

To sum up as a rule/guideline for RAs
When you add a group to another group use a self-closing org tag with a corresp for group you are including. In the case of individuals being added directly to a group, be sure to include a citation using the source attribute. The citation may be the first reference in a text of the character's membership in the group, or the most explicit.

When you add a relation tag to a person please provide a corresp for each occurrence of the relation element. Not to say that each child of someone needs a relation element of their own. Rather, only add a new relation element when ambiguity/dispute occurs, as in our example above. When we have an undisputed collection of children we can provide a single corresp for all. That is, if author A tells us that Tim is the father of Keith, Kevin, and Kathy and no other author disputes this we only need one relation tag

<relation name="father" active="#keith #kevin #kathy" corresp="#authorA_1.1.1"/>

The application now displays a character's gender.
TEI uses ISO 5218:1977 Representation of Human Sexes as a guide, thus 0 indicates unknown; 1 indicates male; 2 indicates female; and 9 indicates not applicable.
So, when editing the gender of a character be aware that it works this way:
The xml tag looks like

<sex value="1">male</sex>

When searching for Periboea, the search says she shows up in Library 3.12.6 but she's actually in 3.12.7. Also when searching for Cleopatra, the search says she's in Lubrary 1.8.1 but she'a actually in 1.8.2. ~Simon

The Epitome 1.6.15a-c thing still shows up in the searches for characters. Just something to deal with. ~Simon

Pleiades offers a json version of their places data, so, using the Perseus RDF file mentioned in a previous post, I whipped up a little script while watching The Borgias. The main part looks like this:

id="1001889";names=`wget -q -O- http://pleiades.stoa.org/places/1001889/json | grep -Po '"names":.*?[^\"],'|cut -d "[" -f2|cut -d "]" -f1` && echo "$id | $names"

After some massaging I've got this

Place name(s): Abdera
Plieades ID: 501323

Place name(s): Abdera, Abdara
Plieades ID: 265762

Place name(s): Achaia
Plieades ID: 30202

Place name(s): Achaia
Plieades ID: 573048

Place name(s): Achaia
Plieades ID: 594942

Place name(s): Achaia
Plieades ID: 60403

Place name(s): Achaia
Plieades ID: 981502

Place name(s): Achaia
Plieades ID: 991372

Place name(s): Adai, Halai
Plieades ID: 554174

Place name(s): Adramyttium
Plieades ID: 550403

Place name(s): Aegina, Oinone
Plieades ID: 579844

Place name(s): Aetna M.
Plieades ID: 462077

Place name(s): Akragas, Agrigentum, Agrigento
Plieades ID: 462086

Place name(s): Alexandreia, Alexandria
Plieades ID: 60406

Place name(s): Alexandria
Plieades ID: 60409

Place name(s): Alexandria
Plieades ID: 60410

Place name(s): Alexandria
Plieades ID: 727070

Place name(s): Alexandria
Plieades ID: 876562

Place name(s): Amphipolis
Plieades ID: 501347

Place name(s): Antiochia, Theoupolis, Iopolis
Plieades ID: 658381

Place name(s): Apamea
Plieades ID: 658385

Place name(s): Apamea
Plieades ID: 897711

Place name(s): Aphidna
Plieades ID: 573100

Place name(s): Aphidna
Plieades ID: 579873

Place name(s): Apollonia
Plieades ID: 462097

Place name(s): Apollonia
Plieades ID: 491526

Place name(s): Apollonia
Plieades ID: 507366

Place name(s): Apollonia
Plieades ID: 536060

Place name(s): Apollonia
Plieades ID: 543633

Place name(s): Apollonia
Plieades ID: 589703

Place name(s): Apollonia
Plieades ID: 594947

Place name(s): Apollonia
Plieades ID: 674220

Place name(s): Apollonia
Plieades ID: 897714

Place name(s): Apollonia, Apollonis
Plieades ID: 857686

Place name(s): Apollonia, Sozousa
Plieades ID: 678025

Place name(s): Apollonia, Sozousa, Portus Cyrenorum
Plieades ID: 373732

Place name(s): Arcadia, Pelasgia
Plieades ID: 570102

Place name(s): Argolis, Argea
Plieades ID: 570104

Place name(s): Argos
Plieades ID: 554192

Place name(s): Argos
Plieades ID: 573117

Place name(s): Argos
Plieades ID: 595699

Place name(s): Argos
Plieades ID: 631184

Place name(s): Argos
Plieades ID: 711220

Place name(s): Argos, Pelasgia
Plieades ID: 570106

Place name(s): Aricia
Plieades ID: 422844

Place name(s): Asia
Plieades ID: 915832

Place name(s): Asia M.
Plieades ID: 573123

Place name(s): Asine
Plieades ID: 711213

Place name(s): Asine, Asinaia
Plieades ID: 570124

Place name(s): Athenae, Athens
Plieades ID: 579885

Place name(s): Attica, Bergida
Plieades ID: 240868

Place name(s): Aulis
Plieades ID: 579889

Place name(s): Babylon, Babil
Plieades ID: 893951

Place name(s): Byzantium
Plieades ID: 520985

Place name(s): Cadiz, Gadeira, Gades, Col. Augusta Gaditana, Urbs Iulia Gaditana
Plieades ID: 256177

Place name(s): Campania
Plieades ID: 432742

Place name(s): Campania
Plieades ID: 991350

Place name(s): Caria
Plieades ID: 599564

Place name(s): Carthago
Plieades ID: 314921

Place name(s): Chalcis
Plieades ID: 540703

Place name(s): Chryse
Plieades ID: 550501

Place name(s): Chryse
Plieades ID: 554214

Place name(s): Chryse, Aurea
Plieades ID: 60485

Place name(s): Colophon
Plieades ID: 599577

Place name(s): Colophon, Colophon ad Mare, Notion
Plieades ID: 599578

Place name(s): Constantinopolis
Plieades ID: 520998

Place name(s): Cora
Plieades ID: 422909

Place name(s): Corcyra
Plieades ID: 530835

Place name(s): Corfu, Corcyra
Plieades ID: 530834

Place name(s): Corinthus, Aigiales, Aigialos, Sicyonia, Corinth, Korinthos
Plieades ID: 570182

Place name(s): Creta
Plieades ID: 589748

Place name(s): Creta et Cyrene, Cyrene
Plieades ID: 981517

Place name(s): Croton, Croto, Crotona
Plieades ID: 452317

Place name(s): Cumae, Kyme
Plieades ID: 432808

Place name(s): Cybistra
Plieades ID: 648614

Place name(s): Cyprus
Plieades ID: 707498

Place name(s): Cyrene, Claudiopolis
Plieades ID: 373778

Place name(s): Cyzicus
Plieades ID: 511218

Place name(s): Daulis
Plieades ID: 540723

Place name(s): Delos
Plieades ID: 599587

Place name(s): Delos
Plieades ID: 599588

Place name(s): Delphi
Plieades ID: 540726

Place name(s): Dirphys M.
Plieades ID: 540736

Place name(s): Dodona
Plieades ID: 543686

Place name(s): Dodona, Dodone
Plieades ID: 530843

Place name(s): Eleusis
Plieades ID: 579920

Place name(s): Eleusis
Plieades ID: 730111

Place name(s): Eleusis
Plieades ID: 741459

Place name(s): Elis
Plieades ID: 570220

Place name(s): Elis
Plieades ID: 570221

Place name(s): Elis
Plieades ID: 573200

Place name(s): Ephesus, Arsinoeia, Arsinoe
Plieades ID: 599612

Place name(s): Ephyra
Plieades ID: 543701

Place name(s): Ephyra
Plieades ID: 573208

Place name(s): Ephyra, Kichyros
Plieades ID: 530870

Place name(s): Epidauros, Epidauria
Plieades ID: 570228

Place name(s): Epirus
Plieades ID: 530871

Place name(s): Eryx
Plieades ID: 409967

Place name(s): Eryx
Plieades ID: 462201

Place name(s): Eryx M.
Plieades ID: 462202

Place name(s): Euboea
Plieades ID: 540775

Place name(s): Euripos
Plieades ID: 540783

Place name(s): Europe
Plieades ID: 536074

Place name(s): Fistelia, Fensermia, Hyria
Plieades ID: 438737

Place name(s): Gaza
Plieades ID: 687902

Place name(s): Glisas
Plieades ID: 540791

Place name(s): Hadrumetum, Iustinianopolis
Plieades ID: 324716

Place name(s): Hellas
Plieades ID: 1001896

Place name(s): Helos, Hele
Plieades ID: 570286

Place name(s): Henna, Enna
Plieades ID: 462236

Place name(s): Heraclea
Plieades ID: 151774

Place name(s): Heraclea, Heracliotes
Plieades ID: 465906

Place name(s): Hermione
Plieades ID: 329217

Place name(s): Hermione, Hermion
Plieades ID: 570292

Place name(s): Hymettos
Plieades ID: 579954

Place name(s): Hymettos M.
Plieades ID: 579955

Place name(s): Hyria
Plieades ID: 540830

Place name(s): Ilium, Troia
Plieades ID: 550595

Place name(s): Italia
Plieades ID: 1052

Place name(s): Ithaca
Plieades ID: 530905

Place name(s): Ithaca
Plieades ID: 530906

Place name(s): Knosos, Col. Iulia Nobilis Cnosos
Plieades ID: 589872

Place name(s): Lacedaemon, Laconia
Plieades ID: 570406

Place name(s): Laertes
Plieades ID: 648685

Place name(s): Laertes M.
Plieades ID: 648686

Place name(s): Laodicea
Plieades ID: 897792

Place name(s): Laodicea, Laodikene, Mazabda
Plieades ID: 668290

Place name(s): Larisa
Plieades ID: 222103

Place name(s): Larissa
Plieades ID: 540905

Place name(s): Larissa, Larisa
Plieades ID: 550683

Place name(s): Latium
Plieades ID: 432900

Place name(s): Lebadeia
Plieades ID: 540907

Place name(s): Lemnos
Plieades ID: 550693

Place name(s): Lerna
Plieades ID: 570424

Place name(s): Leros
Plieades ID: 599763

Place name(s): Leros
Plieades ID: 599764

Place name(s): Lesbos
Plieades ID: 550696

Place name(s): Liguria
Plieades ID: 383698

Place name(s): Lilybaeum
Plieades ID: 462281

Place name(s): Lilybaeum Pr.
Plieades ID: 462282

Place name(s): Lydia, Maionia
Plieades ID: 550701

Place name(s): Macedonia
Plieades ID: 491656

Place name(s): Macedonia
Plieades ID: 981531

Place name(s): Macedonia
Plieades ID: 991368

Place name(s): Magnesia
Plieades ID: 540923

Place name(s): Magnesia ad Sipylum
Plieades ID: 550706

Place name(s): Mantineia, Antigoneia
Plieades ID: 570459

Place name(s): Marseille, Massalia, Massilia
Plieades ID: 148127

Place name(s): Megalopolis
Plieades ID: 321678

Place name(s): Megalopolis
Plieades ID: 570467

Place name(s): Megara
Plieades ID: 543777

Place name(s): Megara
Plieades ID: 570468

Place name(s): Megara
Plieades ID: 674250

Place name(s): Megaris
Plieades ID: 570470

Place name(s): Melas
Plieades ID: 543781

Place name(s): Melas
Plieades ID: 658530

Place name(s): Melas
Plieades ID: 658531

Place name(s): Melas, Peiros
Plieades ID: 573364

Place name(s): Melos
Plieades ID: 536106

Place name(s): Melos
Plieades ID: 570474

Place name(s): Melos
Plieades ID: 570475

Place name(s): Memphis
Plieades ID: 736963

Place name(s): Memphis
Plieades ID: 741517

Place name(s): Messene, Ithome
Plieades ID: 570479

Place name(s): Messenia
Plieades ID: 570480

Place name(s): Midea
Plieades ID: 570485

Place name(s): Miletus
Plieades ID: 599799

Place name(s): Minoa
Plieades ID: 594982

Place name(s): Minoa Pr.
Plieades ID: 570487

Place name(s): Minoia, Minoa, Minoida
Plieades ID: 606336

Place name(s): Mycenae
Plieades ID: 570491

Place name(s): Napoli, Naples, Parthenope, Neapolis
Plieades ID: 433014

Place name(s): Naulochon, Smyrna, Palaia Smyrna, Bayrakli
Plieades ID: 550771

Place name(s): Naupactus
Plieades ID: 540960

Place name(s): Naxos
Plieades ID: 462386

Place name(s): Naxos
Plieades ID: 599821

Place name(s): Naxos
Plieades ID: 599822

Place name(s): Nea Paphos, Paphos, Erythrai, Erythra, Sebaste Claudia Flavia Paphos
Plieades ID: 707586

Place name(s): Nemea
Plieades ID: 570504

Place name(s): Nemea
Plieades ID: 570505

Place name(s): Nilus
Plieades ID: 727172

Place name(s): Nysa
Plieades ID: 60594

Place name(s): Nysa
Plieades ID: 606343

Place name(s): Nysa, Athymbra
Plieades ID: 599832

Place name(s): Oea, Macar Oea, Oeenses
Plieades ID: 344456

Place name(s): Olympia
Plieades ID: 570531

Place name(s): Olympus M.
Plieades ID: 491677

Place name(s): Oxyrhynchus, Pemje
Plieades ID: 736983

Place name(s): Pagasai
Plieades ID: 540998

Place name(s): Palaipaphos, Paphos, Pa-ap-pa
Plieades ID: 707596

Place name(s): Pallene
Plieades ID: 580051

Place name(s): Paros
Plieades ID: 599867

Place name(s): Paros
Plieades ID: 599868

Place name(s): Pelion M.
Plieades ID: 541021

Place name(s): Pellene
Plieades ID: 570576

Place name(s): Pellene
Plieades ID: 573434

Place name(s): Peloponnesus, Apia, Inachia
Plieades ID: 570577

Place name(s): Pergamon
Plieades ID: 507447

Place name(s): Pergamum
Plieades ID: 550812

Place name(s): Perinthus, Heraclea
Plieades ID: 511357

Place name(s): Phocaea
Plieades ID: 550823

Place name(s): Phrygia
Plieades ID: 585947

Place name(s): Phrygia
Plieades ID: 897830

Place name(s): Pieria
Plieades ID: 491696

Place name(s): Pisa
Plieades ID: 570612

Place name(s): Pisae
Plieades ID: 403253

Place name(s): Plataea
Plieades ID: 541063

Place name(s): Prosymna
Plieades ID: 573485

Place name(s): Psophis
Plieades ID: 536810

Place name(s): Psophis, Phegeia
Plieades ID: 570638

Place name(s): Rhegion, Regium
Plieades ID: 452416

Place name(s): Roma, Rome
Plieades ID: 423025

Place name(s): Sardis, Hyde
Plieades ID: 550867

Place name(s): Scythia
Plieades ID: 60673

Place name(s): Scythia
Plieades ID: 60674

Place name(s): Scythia
Plieades ID: 60675

Place name(s): Sebasteia, Megalopolis, Talaura
Plieades ID: 629075

Place name(s): Selinus
Plieades ID: 462489

Place name(s): Septem Fratres M.
Plieades ID: 275704

Place name(s): Shushan, Shusha, Susa, Seleucia ad Eulaeum, Shush-i er-Kar
Plieades ID: 912936

Place name(s): Sicilia
Plieades ID: 981549

Place name(s): Sicilia
Plieades ID: 991353

Place name(s): Sicyon, Demetrias, Aigialeia, Mekora
Plieades ID: 570668

Place name(s): Sidon, Col. Aurelia Pia
Plieades ID: 678393

Place name(s): Smyrna, Eurydikeia, Zmyrna
Plieades ID: 550893

Place name(s): Sparta
Plieades ID: 570685

Place name(s): Sybaris
Plieades ID: 452458

Place name(s): Sybaris
Plieades ID: 452459

Place name(s): Sybaris
Plieades ID: 573537

Place name(s): Sybaris, Thurii, Copia
Plieades ID: 452457

Place name(s): Syria
Plieades ID: 531110

Place name(s): Tarsus, Antiochia ad Cydnum
Plieades ID: 648789

Place name(s): Tegea
Plieades ID: 570707

Place name(s): Tegea
Plieades ID: 595004

Place name(s): Tenedos
Plieades ID: 550911

Place name(s): Tenedos
Plieades ID: 550912

Place name(s): Tenos
Plieades ID: 573548

Place name(s): Tenos
Plieades ID: 590073

Place name(s): Tenos
Plieades ID: 590074

Place name(s): Teutheas
Plieades ID: 570712

Place name(s): Thasos
Plieades ID: 501634

Place name(s): Thasos
Plieades ID: 501635

Place name(s): Thebae, Thiva, Thebes, Thebae
Plieades ID: 541138

Place name(s): Thebes east, Diospolis Magna, Thebai
Plieades ID: 786017

Place name(s): Thera
Plieades ID: 599971

Place name(s): Thera Ins.
Plieades ID: 599973

Place name(s): Thera, Tira
Plieades ID: 222205

Place name(s): Thermopylae
Plieades ID: 541140

Place name(s): Thespiai
Plieades ID: 541141

Place name(s): Thessalia
Plieades ID: 1001895

Place name(s): Thessalia
Plieades ID: 1332

Place name(s): Thessalia
Plieades ID: 991374

Place name(s): Thetideion
Plieades ID: 541144

Place name(s): Thrake
Plieades ID: 1001889

Place name(s): Tiryns
Plieades ID: 570740

Place name(s): Torone
Plieades ID: 501646

Place name(s): Trachis, Herakleia
Plieades ID: 541157

Place name(s): Tripolis
Plieades ID: 573572

Place name(s): Tripolis
Plieades ID: 573573

Place name(s): Tripolis
Plieades ID: 573574

Place name(s): Zacynthus
Plieades ID: 531154

Place name(s): Zacynthus, Hyrie
Plieades ID: 531155

Should we provide links to outside resources?
We're already adding in pleiades.stoa.org links for places, but we *could* add links to other places where appropriate. For example, we *could* add wikipedia/perseus links to characters. Are there any online resources we can add that look specifically at events?

note: the Pleiades links may be easier to add - I need to look at the rdf resource that you can get for each text (e.g. Apol. rdf is here: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/xml/Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0022.pleiades.rdf - note the end bit '1999.01.0022' which is the Perseus id for Apollodorus in English).
Inside the rdf file each instance of a place is inserted, but without a place name!.
We can at least break down the resource based on section markers, though, as sections are internally referred to like this: "perseus-eng1:2.8" which refers to section 2.8, so it's trivial to chop the rdf file in to chunks.
If we end up with an rdf fragment we can further reduce it to the unique occurrences of oac:hasBody tags within the section. I *think* each place is referred to sequentially, so RAs should not have a too-hard job of extracting Pleiades IDs from the fragments.

The map is coming along. You can now add places to the map and show information (associated characters, events and citations). What you *can't* do is click on the character name/event description/citation and get further detail.
I've also added gender to every character. In the 720 cases I couldn't deduce gender I've added 'unknown' so we have a target when filling in the blanks. If you want to see the gender for a character, click on their name to show the details panel and you'll see the gender in the description widget.

June 22, 9-2:45

In Apollodorus Epitome 1.4.1 Briseis is cites as Chryses the priest's daughter. However, in the Characters file, Briseis does not have a father and Chryses' daughter is called Chryseis. Furthermore, in the Iliad 1.185 Agamemnon steals Briseis from Achilles because he had to give Chryseis, Chryses' daughter, back to the Trojans. I've marked Chryses up as father to the both of them with a long note showing the discrepancies between the accounts. It would be nice to have a way to more elegantly denote when characters have different genealogies in different works. ~Simon

June 21 9-4

When one clicks a character and then clicks the same one again it flashes. When one does the same for the events that come up when one clicks the section headings another bubble shows up with the same events. I feel the same thing should happen for both. ~Simon

In Apollodorus Epitome 1.3.11 he list all the Greeks that gathered at Aulis to go to Troy and calls them euboeans and boetians and so on but there are no groups for such peoples. Also the current group that is marked up for "the men who went to the Trojan war," in this case only referring to the Greeks, includes Hector, Paris and other Trojans. I talked with Greg and it would seem we need to decide how to arrange the group(s) of people that went to the Trojan war. I think groups of groups would work with the Trojan war group at the top then Greeks (with various AKAs like Acheans) and Trojans and all the more specific groups within those two. Like a tree. I'm sure Lauren's dealing with this same issue a lot in the Illiad. ~Simon

June 20, 9:45 - 3

In Apollodorus 3.15.1 The sons of Pandion split the inheritance where Erechtheus gets the kingdom of Athens and Butes gets the priesthood of Athena but also that of Poseidon. The problem is that in this instance Poseidon's priesthood is named the priesthood of "Poseidon Erechtheus" It is currently marked up as "Poseidon" and "Erechtheus" which kind of inplies that the priesthood of Poseidon went to Erechtheus. But in Perseus a note says that in Athens people prayed to "Poseidon Erechtheus" because poseidon was associated with Erechtheus. So, did Poseidon's priesthood go to Erechtheus or to Butes and was called "Poseidon Erechtheus"? If the later is true, should I include "Poseidon Erechtheus" as an AKA for Poseidon? Thanks ~Simon

In Apollodorus 3.13.8 Phoenix is blinded for supposedly having seduced his father's concubine Phthia. Phthia is currently marked up as a place, which is wrong, but there are two Phthias and thus I don't know how to re-mark it. I looked on Perseus but it has no info. Wikipedia figures there are four Phthias, the one who had a bunch of sons by Apollo, the concubine, the daughter of Phoroneus and the Niobid. Both wikipedia and Perseus also identify the concubine as Clytie or Clytia but that name doesn't show up anywhere else in Apollodorus either. So the question becomes: is this a new character, and if so, should Clytia or Phthia_3 be "aka"s? On a different note, do we have a place for the House of Peleus? ~Simon

June 18 10-3 June 19 9-11:15

I have checked from Iliad 2.1 to Iliad 2.485, where the Catalogue of Ships starts, to see if the terms "Achaeans," "Argives," "Danaans" and "Trojans" are reflecting and preserving the actual terms used in the Greek text. This is the case almost all of the time. I checked dozens of instances of "Achaeans" et al. in the Butler translation, and found only two cases where the English term was not an translation of the appropriate corresponding Greek term. At Il. 2.15, "Achaeans" is used to translate the Greek for Argives (Άργείοισιν), and at Il. 2.390, "Achaeans" is used for the Greek "Argives" again (Άργεῖοι).

When one of the Greek group names is used in the Greek text, it is not always reflected in the English translation. For example, it might be translated "the people" or "the army," or it might be omitted entirely. This is usually only done when the same term has been used in the Greek shortly before, and avoids repetition in the English translation. Therefore, although English does not reflect every single instance of each Greek term, it does give a fairly accurate sense of the frequency of each term and the environment in which each term appears.

I think it is worthwhile to preserve the distinction between these terms by listing them as separate groups, rather than merging them into one group and calling the other terms akas. It would still be useful, however, to have a way to see and refer to the Greek forces at Troy collectively. Is there a way to make them sub-groups of a group called "Greeks," for example?

As it stands in the Iliad, whenever someone is referred to as the "son of X," "X" is marked up, but "son" is not. This means that in a reference to, for example, "the son of Kronos," although Kronos' (dubious) presence in the text is signalled, Zeus' presence is not signalled, although he is the actual referrent of the expression "son of Kronos."

To solve this problem, I have decided that for the Iliad, where characters are very frequently referred to by their patronyms, phrases like "son of X" should be marked up to point to the son, and the markup that points to the father should be taken out. The father should show up in the son's family relationships.

The situation is Apollodorus is different, and the same approach should not be taken. Because Apollodorus is very often explicity describing genealogical relationships and is very concerned with genealogy, it is appropriate to mark up both parent and child separately in the phrase "son of X". Apollodorus does not use the phrase "son of X" to identify someone in lieu of their name, but in order to explain the genealogy of a person who has already been identified by name, as in "Bellerophon, son of Glaucus".

To be totally clear: in the Iliad, when "X, son of Y" shows up, both X and Y should be marked up on their own. But, as frequently happens, when the phrase is just "son of Y," and the name of X is not given in anywhere near the phrase, then "son of Y" should be marked up with the identity of X.

I will start making this change in Iliad 2.

I have created separate groups in the groups list for the Achaeans, the Argives, and the Danaans. I have asked Laurel whether these should all in fact be akas for the same groups, perhaps "Greeks," but she agrees with me that they should be separate groups, as long as the translation is preserving an actual difference in the Greek. I need to check the Greek to make sure this is so. If not, I will see about merging them into one group. I have just begun to mark up references to the Achaeans and Trojans in Book 2 of the Iliad. Also created a group for "Trojans," and I will treat Trojan sub-groups and allies as above.